It depends on the apartment - I've SEEN quite a few apartments in the area (I'm next door in Grant) that only have 50 amp service, and remember many others in other parts of the country.

If it was an apartment with 100 amp service, IMO the renter has grounds to file CRIMINAL charges for "making false accusations" as well as a big fat lawsuit for breach of contract and refusal to provide services.
If it was an apartment with 60 amp or less service, the renter should be in jail for criminal endangerment, in addition to facing a lawsuit and fines.


Power is NOT provided in the USA (except for a very few ancient LEGACY cases involving stuff that was originally DC powered and often close to a century old) at 117 VAC.
It's provided at 234 VAC "split phase" aka center tapped, and has been that way for decades.


The one that is still BOTHERING me *BIG TIME* is that one homeowner - who DOES seem to have grounds to sue based on what little has been reported on that case.
I also have to wonder if that homeowner has thought to file a complaint with the Washington State Utilities and Transportation Commission, or with the part of the state Office of the Attorney General that deals with utility issues, or BOTH.


The "power you pull when cooking a family dinner" is going to be somewhat less than 6 KW on average, as most electric ranges have 6 elements (one top one bottom in the range, 4 on the top for cooking with pans) at 1000 watts per element - and those elements turn OFF once they hit the "set point" temperature (more so on the oven, though the stovetop elements are easier to see).
That's assuming an electric range (a SAFE assumption in Central Washington except for places like Burger King due to the very low electric cost and lack of any local natural gas sources).


Most apartments have a "kill switch" somewhere before the panel for each apartment - it's POSSIBLE to replace a panel without shutting down the feed from the power company, but still a very UNSAFE idea as the wiring won't be sized correctly unless you are replacing the panel with a "same capacity" setup because the PANEL is going bad (it happens, but we're talking typically quite a few DECADES, or a panel that water wasn't kept away from and is rusting out).

I don't - the E3 is a pretty big risk, given the current timeframe the ETH developers are talking about for Casper deployment and the very small amount of market for a ethash miner after ETH goes fully Proof of Stake.

I DO expect to start seeing a few GPUs pop up at reasonable used pricing if coin prices keep sliding, or stay steady and Bitmain manages to build a TON of E3 units and sell them all.

It does look like they're having a bit harder time moving them than they anticipated, given the move to "allow 5 per buyer" instead of the initial 1 limit.

Even CNBC - which is NOT known for it's high-quality fact checking - presented that as a RUMOR, not as fact.

Known sales figures out of Bitmain make it plausable they might have managed a few billion in SALES in 2017, but even with their margins it's doubtful they had more PROFIT than Nvidia had (on MUCH higher sales).

They've also made mistakes - their Cryptonite miner will be DEAD IN THE WATER for the most part before they start delivering it (Monero has ALREADY forked to kill it, ETN has announced they'll be forking SOON for the same reason and probably will use the code and algorithm Monero moved to, there goes 90% of the current CN hashrate between those two leaving almost NO market for a CN miner at all even if NONE of the other CN coins change algorithm).
Their E3 is not looking too impressive either, though they probably will manage to sell some of them at the price they set on it.
Their SIA and X11 miners have overflooded the small markets to the point I doubt Bitmain could GIVE more of them away - and past the first batch on each I suspect they are going to end up LOSING MONEY to move the remaining production of both of those.

The biggest reason Bitmain still sells is that every other miner makers makes it an active PAIN for folks other than HUGE FARMS to buy their products, even where they ARE superior (A4, A5) or comparable (841, L21, others).

The F3 at this point is a "one very short and VERY uninformative" video rumor.
There isn't even proof in the video that it is for Ethash AT ALL, presuming it actually exists.

The Monero miner fiasco just shows that Bitmain is capable of making major mistakes - they were probably working on it and were going to do their usual "introduce it out of nowhere" routing when they got undercut by Baikal introducing THEIR miner - and BOTH didn't bother paying attention to the long-standing statement by the Monero core dev group that they WOULD change the algorithm if an ASIC showed up.

ETH devs have already ruled out a fork due to the E3 - they rightly don't consider it a serious threat - though they did say they reserved the right to fork if a threat actually DID show up (like the possibility the F3 is real and goes into production and meets the claimed hashrate out of that video).


Do keep in mind that "faked" videos have appeared before - some with a lot more details than that "F3" video actually shows.

None of mine have failed yet - but they'll probably get the NMB treatment with a single fan running at 12VDC when they do.


It might be interesting to find out what Gigabyte puts on those "in a box" Aorus 1080 models - it's a largish single fan on an otherwise "stock" ITX 1080 model, per at least one review of the unit, but I don't think they published the actual fan model in that review.

I manage a bit less than 700 at the wall with 5 x 1070 at right around that same 157 Mhash - but that's on rigs with an AMD FX 8350 CPU (95 watt TDP rating) mining Monero, so NOT well optimized for ETH-specific usage.
A rig using a LOW POWER cpu like a G4600 or a Sempron 145 and not using the CPU for anything else should manage 600 ballpark at the wall for 5 x 1070.

The cards alone are capable of pulling full hashrate at commonly 100-105 watts TDP (nvidia-smi reported, figure 110-115 at the wall per card) depending on the specific card and model, across my stable of 8 or 9 different card models and 30ish 1070 cards.


heavyarms - why do you ASSUME there "haven't been much of GPUs sold since Dec/Jan" when bloody near all GPU models used to mine ETH were TOTALLY SOLD OUT almost all the time in that timeframe?
There is ZERO logic or sense to that assumption.



The F3 is speculation based on ONE video - that didn't show WHAT it was hashing on, what it looked like, what the power consumption is, and even if it exists it might not be for ethash AT ALL.
I concede my "oops" on the 2x hashrate figure - 7.5-8x is the correct number - but that would still need 200,000 OR MORE to match current total ethash network hashrate, NOT going to happen in a few months especially if it's a 14/16nm node ASIC and given it hasn't even been announced for sale (keep in mind that the E3 is not shipping for more than 2 months from now - 15-30 July).

The E3 is information straight from Bitmain's SALE site - it's not speculation and they have stated that while the specs are preliminary they expect final units to have even better performance (take with an ounce of salt, Bitmain has a history of being a bit optimistic on those announcements but are usually at least CLOSE when the units actually reach end users).

Investing is a lot more risky - someone that bought into Bitcoin (or pretty much any cryptocoin) in January has already lost well over half of their investment, while a MINER has generally been making money over that timeframe if they don't have crazy-high power rates and use fairly recent equipment.

The "up" side of investment can be a lot higher - but the "down" side is also a LOT lower - compared to mining.


I'm still not seeing ANYTHING on current cards locally for less than MSRP, and the few listings I AM seeing are still at a premium.
Downside of being in a "super cheap" electric rate area - folks around here are NOT turning off their rigs yet.

The E3 is NOT more efficient than a well-tuned GPU rig.

It is AT BEST a tossup with a 6 card RX 570/580/470/480 rig, a hair more hashrate at same to a hair more power.
It is INFERIOR to a well-tuned GTX 1070 6 card rig which will manage about 190 Mhash/sec at 700-750 watts.

My bloody *5* card 1070 rigs are not well tuned (the CPU is usually a FX 8350 soaking up to 95 watts and mining Monero) and still pull 157-158 Mhash at a little under 700 watts.


The E3 will make a slow dent in ETH profitability, but it looks unlikely to make a significant dent before ETH goes Proof of Stake - and THAT is when across-the-board profitability on GPU mineable coins is going to collapse for at least a short while as all of those GPUs go searching for new homes.

Keep in mind that Bitmain would have to sell over 1.5 MILLION of the E3 to match the CURRENT Ethereum hashrate (then add a few hundred thousand MORE for the other ethash coins).
That's NOT going to happen in a few months - even with it's unquestioned "most efficient SHA256 miner in existance" causing the S9 to sell out quickly on each batch, Bitmain hasn't managed to sell THAT MANY of the S9 in the almost *2 YEARS* since it first went on sale (they probably HAVE managed to sell close to *A* Million of the S9, perhaps a little over).

With that said, can we shut this thread down and move this over to the MAIN E3 discussion thread, we don't need a half dozen threads on the SAME subject.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3249542.0

I have a bunch of "left over" NVB 92mm case fans that fit VERY NICELY on any Gigabyte "Windforce" model card - one per heatsink.
2 of those running on 5V seems to provide more airflow (by a hair) than the *3* Gigabyte fans did, as temps on the cards I've used them on DROPPED a degree or so.
Running them at 12V = MUCH BETTER cooling than the Gigabyte fans even at 100%.

They soak .35 amps each, so a pair of them at 12VDC is a tossup on power with the Gigabyte fans at 90% or higher.

Gigabyte likes to talk about how their "fancy blades" provide more airflow, but in actual fact their fans on the Windforce cards are JUNK.


3601NL-04W-B40 is the specific fan model from the back of one of them.


I've not had the FAN on a Gigabyte "ITX" model fail yet, but I've got *3* of those POS things outright dead over the last couple months, not sure if any of them made it to a year - I do have a few others still working, though.

Better be quite a bit over 500 sol/s as a GTX 1080 running either EWBF or DSTM is capable of 500 easily at LOWERED TDP on those 2 miners.

I ran my mining via Exceed sat service for 2 years.
Stale shares went up by about 1% due to the slow ping times, but otherwise it was an IMPROVEMENT from the Virgin Mobile USA 3G service I had before that.

Bandwidth was not an issue - less than 100k a day for several S5 units + an SP20 + several GPU miners.

A bit more SPECIFIC information from the PUD itself that instigated these shutdowns:

https://www.chelanpud.org/about-us/newsroom/news/2018/04/03/pud-board-acts-to-halt-unauthorized-bitcoin-mining

Apparently 2 of the folks they targeted were exceeding SAFE loads on the wiring for the locations involved, NOT just "mining without authorization", and the third failed to give required notice when they exceeded their allotment.


This is NOT an "action by the state" at all, it is one specific "local" PUD with a record of dislike for cryptocoin mining.

It would be more fair to compare it to 6 x 1070 or 6 x RX 570/580, since ETH miners don't USE Vega or 1080 ti cards due to their VERY POOR HASHRATE PER $.

Sure both cards will do ballpark 35 Mhash, but when a 1070 at less than 70% of the cost manages 31+ and a RX 570/580 at HALF OR LESS the cost manages 28-30.....

Most residential circuits in the US use wiring and breakers sized for 15 amps INTERMITTANT service at 117 VAC.
Some "kitchen" outlets, and most A/C outlets are sized for 20 amps at 117 VAC but those are not all that common outside of kitchens.

When operating equipment 24/7 the NEC requires you to derate the circuit by 20% - so that "15 amp" circuit in CONTINUOUS USE like with a miner becomes a 12 amp circuit for safety reasons.

30 amp wiring at 117 VAC pretty much doesn't exist in the US - higher power appliances and equipment is designed to use 208v (industrial split out from a 3 phase circuit) or 234 v (standard "use both hots on a standard split-phase residential or SMALL business feed) instead.

Yes, IN THEORY you could have a 30 amp 117 VAC feed wired up and run an S9 from it - but in practice, if you're going to have such a RARE feed setup installed (and good luck finding OUTLETS for it, anything over 20 amps in the US is specifically intended for use on 234 V - there is no such thing as a NEMA 5 outlet at higher than 20 amps) you'd be better off just having a STANDARD 234V circuit and outlet(s) installed instead.

You need to put some dehumidification in your intake airstream - for reference, a standard "mechanical" air conditioner is ALSO a dehumidifier, and many if not most current "window" units have "dehumidify" specific settings as part of their controls.

You do NOT have to run your entire inlet airstream THROUGH a dehumidifier for it to be effective - just have it AT the intake area to soak up enough of the humidity to reduce it enough to keep stuff from rusting.

Surge protectors at the "panel" level are commonly 234 V in the US, due to how common "split phase" power feeds work here.
Past the outlet type surge protectors are bloody rare though the US at anything other than the "common" 117 VAC, as most data centers that run 208V or 234V to their machines have a full-up UPS setup of some sort that provides surge protection, or use panel-level surge protection in the rare cases they don't have a center-level UPS setup.

PDUs often have some sort of metering, but the metered ones tend to be a bit expen$ive - and wattmeters designed to run on 208 or 234 V with US-type connections are bloody RARE otherwise due to lack of demand for them.

I'm based out of Central Washington, right in the biggest cluster of cryptocoin mining in the US (and pretty much on the West Coast as Seattle is only about 2 hours driving time away). I have over a decade of work experience each as an Electronic Tech and a Computer Tech.

Can 9 million (minimum) GPUs be wrong?

Well, yes - but for the LONG term ETH has been beating or a tossup with anything else for AMD GPUs, with some short-term spikes for some small-cap coins here and there.

It's also a lot more liquid than most GPU mineable coins - a lot of those "small cap" coins that have been "more profitable" suffer from only being carried by 1 or 2 tiny exchanges with SMALL transaction volumes that can often kill any "higher profitability" because they can't handle the volume of coin generated by a large or even a medium mining operation.

Even if the F3 exists and meets the stats in that video, it's STILL not a short-term threat - only double the hashrate of the E3, with no information about how much power it draws.
Bitmain would have to sell almost a MILLION of those to match the existing ETH hashrate, and over a million when you toss in the existing hashrate from the other ethash coins like ETC.

NOT HAPPENING in a few months timeframe - though to be fair initial Casper implementation is intented to be the 1%/99% hybrid and still mostly POW.

Keep in mind the OP mentioned that their rig had a HD 6950 (ancient Terrascale card) and a R9 270 (low end for mining at all but at least it's GCN).
I doubt they were mining ETH on those cards, don't think the R9 270 had a 4GB option and the ETH miners don't tend to work on pre-GCN cards at all.


20 cents/KWH isn't the most expensive electric in the USA, much less the world - but it's certainly a lot higher than the US average.