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I hope people stop soon with the colored/tainted coins nonsense. There's far too many different uses for the underlying technology for them all to be shared with only 21 million bitcoins (even if you use them as individual satoshis). Its good not just for stocks, but all kinds of other property that needs to have ownership managed.
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3 - Some kind of P2P setup - this could possibly be done using an alternate blockchain where each unit is a share, the problem is that the semantics of mining don't quite make sense - you'd have to buy "blank" shares from a mined block and that would cost money - which defeats the purpose of fundraising - there's probably a more clever way to handle this problem but it'll require a lot of thought
Well, having the initial share purchase be at some cost would give miners a reason to mine that blockchain. There could also be small transaction costs. The initial purchase price could be very small compared to the IPO price. For example, Acme Rockets could buy 10,000 blank shares from Miner B for 0.0001btc each, mark them somehow as being Acme Rocket shares (perhaps as part of the initial purchase process), and resell them as now properly branded shares for 0.01btc each. Investor C buys 500@0.01btc, paying an additional 0.00005btc/share which goes to the miner that confirms the block. I am still wondering how splits would work though, as well as what price and transaction cost levels would suffice for miners. |
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Great idea! Do you need any help other than monetary donations as well?
If you're in or near Manchester NH, you might be able to help in person. Monetary donations are always OK though. She is thinking about ways to make this grow, and how it can help her career, so if she got a whole heck of a lot of donations I think she'd consider making it her full time job. The idea of franchising it (in a non-profit sense) doesn't seem too far-fetched to me. |
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Every now and then appears someone with the "new" idea of tainting coins. It's a very bad idea for multiple reasons. God, use the search button and you'll find a lot of threads about tainting.
What we need is an add-on for the Satoshi client and for the usual mining software to allow people melt-mining coins. That way we prevent the next "visionary" to taint our coins.
Melt-mining: mine a block and add a selfmadetransaction with all the coins you want to "melt" as fees. You need a tweaked client that prevents the selmadetransaction to be broadcasted but in your brand new mined block.
BITCOINS MUST BE FUNGIBLE.
Thank you. Taint was the word I was looking for. Bank notes being traceable is one of the problems with them. When you use cash it is supposed to not be traceable. Using bitcoins should be just like using cash anonymously, at least as much as possible. |
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This colored bitcoin concept just doesn't seem right to me. Bitcoins are supposed to be fungible, and this takes away from that as well as causes unnecessary deflation.
One of the concerns I have is that it will make it easier (or at least more common and accepted) to track bitcoins that are "dirty" somehow (at least in some people's, or more importantly governments, eyes).
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I know Amanda personally and this is legit. If you need more references from the forum community we can supply them.
I've known Amanda for a few years. She's a good person (and makes some great ice cream) who will make sure the donations are used wisely and frugally. I remember the discussions from last year where the volunteers were all trading info on getting the best deals - heck, I learned some good stuff from that. |
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IMHO what I think Goat should do is try the code redemption process. Ask for all the shareholders to report to him first. If all of the shares get accounted for and there's no double coding, then he should settle that. If there are actual attempts at double code usage, then process nothing and take it from there. At least according to my understanding of the process it should work if everyone acts properly, and it can fail if anyone acts in bad faith. The process isn't perfect but it could work. At least giving it a try first instead of claiming that it *could* go wrong seems the better route. Then if something goes wrong the problem clearly would belong to nefario.
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The thing that pisses me off the most about web2.0 sites is when they don't allow "open in new tab". I use that all the time.
If I had a time machine I'd go back in time and stop the two biggest mistakes in web browsers: cookies and the damn back button. Its a WEB, not a line.
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There really should be some kind of bond that the issuer would lose in case they break their contract.
Good idea. I just contacted support@glbse.comMy request for a scammer tag remains though. That is a good idea, although I would like to see it be voluntary. In the verification section it could have a "Bonded" indicator that could either be a checkbox or an amount bonded. |
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Don't forget Shire Silver. We make cards that fit in your wallet that contain silver and gold. They are smaller units than typical bullion, and are designed to be used as an alternative currency. The smallest gold denomination we have, which is the smallest physical gold trade unit on the planet, is only about $4 or less than half a bitcoin. |
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I'm still not getting how this is better than an alt-chain with merged mining (like namecoin)? I'm admittedly not an expert on how the blockchain, alt-chains, and merged mining work; but that approach sounds more flexible and with fewer possibilities of screwing up the bitcoin blockchain. It also doesn't need all the bitcoin clients to be changed to account for handling colored coins.
Also, what if you want more colored coins than can be derived from one origin block? That is, how do you make more than 50btc worth of one color?
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The problem with having the company/issuer manage the shares is that its not something most of them are going to be competent at. I imagine the vast majority of them would just outsource that, so we'd all end up in third party hell again.
Using a blockchain/bitcoin-like system would mean it should be extremely simple to manage, for both the issuers and the shareholders. There's no need for the issuer to know who the shareholders are - the only communications needed between them are dividends and votes, as far as I can figure. If anyone wants to get fancy with shorting or margin trading, they could work through one of the agent sites (like I'd expect GLBSE to become).
There's also the anonymity aspect. Having the issuer manage it means the data on who owns shares needs to be maintained, and if it is maintained it will be recorded and capable of being stolen or seized. I don't want any government ever knowing anything about any of my economic data. None. At all. Ever. Period. End of story. So if there's any way they can get that info I'm less likely to use the system, and won't put as much into it as I would with a system that respects my control over my data.
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I really don't like the idea of replacing GLBSE with another "site" or brokers.
What we need, IMHO, is an alt-chain for shares. The smart property proposal being discussed on some threads here is a good start. Sites like GLBSE could then be middlemen that can help people manage their shares, help with buying and selling as well as research. But you should be able to move from one such site to another by merely exporting a hash (or whatever) and importing it into the new site. Those who want to manage things themselves can have their own wallet for their shares.
The smart property idea can be used for shares of stocks and bonds, car titles (using VIN numbers for part of the data), and land titles (maybe starting with title insurance). You could also use it for anything with a serial number - use an alt-chain for keeping track of your valuables.
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... so we are playing spot the spook now?
I thought there were laws that public officials acting in official capacity have to make themselves known when asked ... or is it just a crypto-police state, not a real one?
The idea that an officer or other public official must identify themself if asked is a myth propagated by undercover cops. At least here in the U.S. cops are allowed to lie to you. That's pretty well known. As far as "spot the fed", a few years ago at PorcFest there was a guy that just didn't seem to fit in and a few of the folks decided he must be a fed. He got followed around and it seemed to me to be blown out of proportion. The next year there were people walking around with t-shirts that said "I'm a fed" on the front and "Don't you wish it was that easy?" on the back. One friend of mine suggested that if they really wanted to infiltrate a group like that (largely male and geeky) the best thing to do would be to send in a young female. |
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Cool! I also wanted to point out he's using my new https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/donate/ service to accept the political contributions. It's designed completely for complying with local campaign contribution laws, so the candidate can set max donation amounts or if they require an address, etc. I just sent the link to someone working for a U.S. Congressional candidate that just moments ago decided to accept bitcoins for his campaign. It'll take a a day or so before his website is ready, I'm sure. Let y'all know when it is ready. |
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Haha, both Erik and Ira are busy people ^^ Good thing they have a forum lurker like me to keep track of all the threads  //DeaDTerra I use a Google alert ( http://www.google.com/alerts?hl=en ) looking for "Shire Silver" to help find places where people talk about my stuff, and I'd bet Erik and Ira do something similar. If that's true, maybe the filter missed this thread due to the spaces in Feed Ze Birds in the thread title. |
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I was also just making a joke based on geopolitics, as in the line from "The Princess Bride": Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
Vizzini: (Vizzini stops suddenly, his smile frozen on his face and falls to the ground dead) I suppose my point is that if bitcoin takes hold in Asia with any kind of mass, it's unstoppable. MacArthur supposedly said it: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Douglas_MacArthurI'd hear the quote long before Princess Bride, but then I've always been a bit of a history buff. |
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[...]I'm a happy customer, having bought from most other PM BTC shops, your service is excellent.[...]
I'm not sure what a "PM BTC shop" is, care to explain? Did you purchase gold or silver from other merchants with BTC ? There's a few. Coinabul and my own Shire Silver sell precious metals for bitcoins. |
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