really....  so you have a group of highly skilled and thus highly paid individuals and all you need is 100 btc or $13,100 USD from the community? really?? why??? you all can't put up that money yourselves?... seems like your group should be able to pull together 13K given the pedigree you claim to have there... I call bullshit until you get your numbers right and cough up info/escrow. Yah, I about spit coffee all over myself reading the op. I agree completely - with half a dozen people on the project if they believe in it they'd be able to fund it themselves... even an idiot like the OP could get a loan for a couple thousand bucks... even if his credit is in the low 500s. fail scam is fail. |
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SET TROLL_MODE = ON $500 in August, here we come  SET TROLL_MODE = OFF seems legit. At least the line is straight, that's an improvement around here. LoL True that. Estimate is wrong... but the line is straight. |
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nah - make it pps and we'll talk
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I agree. I have solved this problem. *No one cares about trading between BTC and LTC. The problem we need to solve is how do a few billion people trade BTC to and from USD, EUR, CNY, RUB, and JPY? (*)For statistically significant values of "anyone" I agree - what we need is a turnkey system that uses 'accepted practices' to turn bitcoin into fiat. It would be smarter to operate in your local nation only. The idea is you run just a bit of a margin relative to some exchanges (aka be willing to buy large amounts of bitcoin for under market rate) and immediately fund the end user via alternate payment processor (paypal, dwolla, check, direct deposit, etc). Give the user the option of taking a small hit re:price to sell to your service knowing that they'll have a check to deposit in ~3 days. Really (at least domestically) you could simply deposit into someone bank account. The leaves your service having cycles where you have to sell & wire the fiat to yourself. Easier for the end user... bit of a headache for the service provider. It doesn't solve the problem of users having to trust the exchange not to mess with their funds. |
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I wish I could buy one of these  why? they can't make roi ever, they are useless... Not being an ass but can you elaborate? it's the expected onlining of all the other aisc stuff. avalon, but their own units and the chips, the 100th mine, bfl, etc. difficulty is expected by most to launch like a saturn 5 rocket and leave the moon in it's wake. if that actually happens, ROI with these will go from the current 4 or 5 months (or whatever it is) to longer and longer, until eventually the electrical cost of running one, plus the host pc, exceeds what it earns. Your math is wrong - roi on these at ~2btc each is 4 to 60 months. I definately isn't the best option because of the sidecosts associated with running 300 of these... but it definately is doable |
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HI I am still waiting for my FIRST payment starting to feel that it will never happen, I have not received a reply to my first posting. I should have stopped then I am so sick of being scammed, if you are NOT A SCAM start acting like it!!
Noel
I've been mining off and on at this pool for a very long time - sometimes payouts are wonky... give it time, use autopayout and it will fix itself before you know it. Sometimes I think that the hotwallet is almost always empty and gets topped up about once a week... but then there are weeks when payouts come as expected. I have yet to lose any earnings however... so just stick with it. |
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STILL no response from MtGox on the issue, despite people berating them on FB and twitter
I had a gox > dwolla transfer in progress. I used the contact us section on mtgox - they were prompt in crediting the USD back to my gox account. Was a very small transfer however... Personally I'm still going to use gox for some small speculation - but I've drastically reduced the amounts I keep there until we see how this turns out. |
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I'm thinking about going in on this... I just can't wrap my head around spending this much for so little hashing.
I mean from my perspective - I'd make more money buying a bunch of 7970s and reselling them for 75% of purchase price in a couple months.
ROI is what... ~6 months? So make that 9 after the 30% increase in difficulty that's coming.
I'll think about it some more.
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FTFY? Do you understand PPLNS at all? You get paid for each share based on blocks solved after it's submitted. The value of the share has NOTHING to do with timing/consistency of share submissions. It is entirely based on how many blocks the pool solves after the share is submitted. There is no exponential/DGM scoring involved that makes shares worth less when you stop or when you start.
Reading comprehension is your friend. PPLNS (while better than DGM) still punishes inconsistent miners on long rounds. It only counts the last N shares. You can claim it isn't related to timing or consistency of submitted shares... but anyone who understands how the payout method works knows you're incorrect. The saving grace on PPLNS is on short rounds you effectively get paid the same as an average round... But how often does a pool have multiple short block finds in a row? |
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PPLNS doesn't punishes miners more for disconnects/non-continuous mining, while still being hop proof.
FTFY |
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Damn that is so sad and dissappointing I was saving up just to get one of those beast sounding rigs Thanks for saving me though I am converted. Too bad - in a year from now you'll be deeply regretting that decision. |
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This is now my favorite thread ever!  |
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I would really like to hear some proof that DGM indeed works that way. I don't feel 100% confident that it's fair in that case, but haven't seen any real proof that it's not, either. It might definitely feel like you are losing expected payout when abandoning a round, but unless you have proof that DGM works that way, I'm more inclined to believe that the opinion is just based on a misunderstanding. The huge failure of DGM is that it's almost impossible to understand (I mean really understand, not just on the "capacitor is being charged" -level  ) if you aren't a hardcore mathematician. I'm far from that level myself, and thus Bitparking doesn't feel as attractive anymore. Then again, even if you can understand a pool's payout method, it's another thing whether they have implemented it properly... What can I say I've looked at the math. The target for DGM is "same payouts as pps", like all 'hop-proof' methods it has the net effect of setting your maximum reward as a ceiling and then punishing the miner who doesn't mine continually or drops out of a round. It transfers most of the risk and variance from the pool ops to the miners. If everything goes perfectly, you'll see about the same earnings you'd get on pps... when the pool has bad luck (or you do re:connection issues, low accepted shares etc) your earnings will drop off accordingly. Since it's waiting until confirmation of block generation and paying based on the last 5 rounds these losses will be obfuscated because they happen proportionally over the next 5 rounds. As I miner all you'll be able to notice is that your earnings seem to have decreased. All I can say is, look at the equations - they aren't that hard to figure out. DGM does exactly what it was designed to do - transfer risk taken by pool ops to miners instead. |
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I'll register a new account when the current block finishes. If I understood DGM well enough, I could lose more BTC abandoning the current round than I have in altcoins...
I'm under the impression that you should have no reason to think like that. In a fair payout method, all shares should have the same expected payout, and not depend on history at all. With DGM (and most other methods as well), the actual payout per share will have lots of variance, but it should average out after a long enough time, even over multiple accounts that are mining only occasionally. DGM is really hard to understand, and unlike with PPLNS, I still haven't grasped it well enough to be 100% sure of the above. However, it would be a very lousy payout method if miners were forced to stay on the pool to not lose their expected payouts. as I understand it abandoning a round at any other time then "very near the start" could infact drastically reduce your payout. Which is why I've argued so much about the switch. I'm off mmpool (for good I think) finally as a result of vircurex going down I don't really feel like recreating another dozen worker accounts to reset addresses. |
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All in all I keep wondering how much of what makes Bitcoin so cool, was the result of the conceived design (getting the fundamentals right in the protocol) or getting the protocol aspect resolved and by chance, it being so accurately timed and exsiccated it has become the catalyst for new ideas and features and ways of exchanging and storing economic activity among the benefits possibly eliminating the economic problem of inflation and deflation.
I often wonder about that myself... but I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that this sort of thing would happen in any free market. It just happens faster in bitcoin... because it is a free market. Which in turn makes me want to shake statists and banksters. |
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I do think that supporting a full block chain node (with accompanying bandwidth) does add value, it could be possible that a node who maintains the block chain is reworded with proof of stake (mining options) like the current reword, but to mine you need to convert proof of stake into proof of work to earn BTC.
This would allow South and Northern hemispheres to take a break from mining in the summer months without missing out on opportunity, thus maximising the utility of the heat generated by mining by limiting it to winter months. It would make an attack harder too, as an attacker would need to support strengthen the existing network in order to allow it to even attempt a 51% brute force attack.
OR somebody could do something like... oh I don't know - buy a bunch of avalon chips - put together a rig that acts as a space heater, and sell that for a profit. How many people buy those "edenpure" space heaters for multiple thousands of dollars... Why not a bitcoin based product in the same price range - where a consumer can purchase it and then heat his house by mining bitcoin to offset his power bill? What about a bitcoin based hot water heater (just liquid cool your chips and heat exchange into a water tank)? The point isn't purely 'secure the network' although it is a point. There are also a myriad of ways to profit by building services on the bitcoin network. Device construction is only a part of that pie... services are going to be key in the future as well (or this whole project at some point fails). |
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Ha, point taken, thank you. Luckily, we can sell any of the components separately. The example I used was for a whole system being completely installed--if someone just wants to buy a factory made panel we sell those for around a buck a watt anyway, plus freight. I think you are absolutely correct about starting with component sales (panels, batteries, inverters, etc.). I may have been overly optimistic to think someone would be willing to purchase a whole solar system with BTC right away  . Plus I have a small post count and am a complete unknown to everyone on here. Earning positive feedback from members by completing hassle-free transactions will help build my credibility with everyone. As I said in my initial post, escrow would be welcomed. As far as putting together a solar panel from b-grade cells, I've looked into doing that in the past as a weekend project, but the pricing of cells, plus getting a soldering iron and solder, plus the wood or aluminum to build a frame, plus the plexiglass (or whatever) cover to protect the cells, plus the wire and special outdoor waterproof connectors--it was easier and less expensive to just buy a whole panel. I've done some of that myself - the biggest cost really is the frame (since a diy guy isn't manufacturing 2000 of them) and just knowing how exactly to do it correctly. That being said - put together a couple packages along the following lines: grid tied inverter + panel + wiring kit + mounting hardware or battery packs + wiring + (maybe some options on electronics grade inverters?) Make sure you have a kit that starts small (100w?) and can grow to (500w?) just by adding panels. offer packages like that in bitcoin and you'll get buyers all day. Advantage of you doing it this way, is you can get exact numbers on shipping costs and packaging worked into the price for each kit. Also if you're actually selling panels close to a buck a watt... point me at the company, I'll buy with fiat in the future and save myself the labor of assembly. The same should hold true for btc - if you're company is an actual existing business... then there should be no problem following the normal sales procedure and just accepting payment via bitpay or bitcoins directly. Those of us with bitcoin incomes won't bat an eyelash if you're company is a traditional business transitioning into accepting bitcoin... no escrow needed. |
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seems the rate of posts per day is exponentially increasing as we get closer to the delivery date
Lol yup, I think their biggest critics will become their biggest buyers after they prove themselves I resemble that remark. If by some small chance they prove to be legit, I'll buy the maximum limit available, and I'll be HAPPY to admit I was wrong. Same boat bro. I'll be the first to shout their praises if they turn out to be legit. |
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I think you're going to have to change your pricing model / plan of attack when it comes to selling in BTC. You need smaller kit. I doubt you'll be able to sell installation given who the current users of btc are.
Personally I might buy some product if you ever accept bitcoin - but I'd want it to be somewhat modular where I can choose the wattage I need and set it all up myself.
Honestly, you'd probably do better simply shipping all the parts of a panel for some lower price and letting people buy as many or few as they need.
AKA in this community, if we need solar we just buy b-grade cells for a buck a watt and assemble ourselves =P
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