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2461  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: April 03, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
Made this guide: www.bitcoinuk.blogspot.com

So far the cheapest way that I found to buy btc from UK..

Hope it helps.


Thats pretty good Wiki.
 
As a costly example, i sent £500 to Gox via UK bank account. The bank took £22, and Gox sliced another £8, only took 2 full working days, but i obviously wont be doing that again, at that total % rate.
2462  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker on: April 02, 2013, 07:10:31 PM
Do i see little order clusters, around $500, and $1000 ? Cool
2463  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Ziggap Bitcoin Sales Service on: April 01, 2013, 09:32:56 PM
As for me, I just PMed aethero on IRC.

Quote
[16:21] <Namworld> What's up with ziggap?
[16:24] <aethero> Not much, down for a couple of days attending to a few issues
[16:25] <aethero> Has some massive hard drive failure. Lightning took out my laptop and portable hard drive, toasting my keepass DB which had my forum passwords in it. Family issues at the same time means I couldnt attend to the site
[16:25] <aethero> I'm back, everything is fine Smiley
[16:25] <Namworld> Looks like people were incredibly worried from the lack of communication.
[16:25] <aethero> I noticed.
[16:26] <aethero> Im getting with theymos right now to recover the password db
[16:26] <aethero> the forum password*
[16:26] <Namworld> As long as you can sign with your OTC key, I guess that's always possible.
[16:27] <aethero> Man, all these people thinking I ran off with money. Kinda sad. 3 day outage and I'm a theif now.

Note: Non-authed, but his nick is password protected. People should probably standby until an official announcement.

How does lightning take out a laptop? 

I assume it was plugged on the charger.

Really sorry guys n girls. The transcript is an amatuer behaviorists week-end homework. Its full of holes.
2464  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Ziggap Bitcoin Sales Service on: April 01, 2013, 09:09:55 PM
As for me, I just PMed aethero on IRC.

Quote
[16:21] <Namworld> What's up with ziggap?
[16:24] <aethero> Not much, down for a couple of days attending to a few issues
[16:25] <aethero> Has some massive hard drive failure. Lightning took out my laptop and portable hard drive, toasting my keepass DB which had my forum passwords in it. Family issues at the same time means I couldnt attend to the site
[16:25] <aethero> I'm back, everything is fine Smiley
[16:25] <Namworld> Looks like people were incredibly worried from the lack of communication.
[16:25] <aethero> I noticed.
[16:26] <aethero> Im getting with theymos right now to recover the password db
[16:26] <aethero> the forum password*
[16:26] <Namworld> As long as you can sign with your OTC key, I guess that's always possible.
[16:27] <aethero> Man, all these people thinking I ran off with money. Kinda sad. 3 day outage and I'm a theif now.

Note: Non-authed, but his nick is password protected. People should probably standby until an official announcement.

How does lightning take out a laptop? 
2465  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker on: April 01, 2013, 04:06:53 PM
Here comes the cavalry... bids filling in nicely in triple digits.  Get ready for $150.

Is gonna pop
2466  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker on: March 31, 2013, 08:13:41 PM


Coma.

Bitcoin is dead! Wheres the defib?
2467  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are there security issues with Bitcoin for Free / Faucet-Services? on: March 31, 2013, 08:11:12 PM
There is no risk.

Please refrain from posting stupid questions on this sub-forum.

Have a shit day.

While WikileaksDude is right in his answer, his attitude in responding is awful. Don't pay him any attention.

What the hell wikileaksdude - why would you be such a jerk about it?

Its like the school prefect/bully decided the new boy needs his head flushed down the toilet.

Have a little moment with yourself wikileaksdude.
2468  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker on: March 30, 2013, 12:46:03 PM

If he was an economist, i would say buy buy buy, but i believe he was a spokesman for FxPro....which raises a question of motive, maybe?
2469  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Exchange rate price manipulated order book on: March 30, 2013, 12:43:29 PM
Of course it can be manipulated, for fair and foul reasons. A 'positive' reason would be to increase liquidity on the book/exchange with prop trading techniques. This makes it more attractive for others to participate.

If you are asking, can Gox manipulate the book, i would say that currently, and as everyone who has a Gox trading account know to be fact, is that its questionable if they actually have control of their own infrastructure/speed/latency/engine etc, They have enough problems to solve before they could effectively manipulate/arbitrage, for consistent advantage.   
2470  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 27, 2013, 07:28:09 PM
The biggest problem is that this is seen as a financial product or sorts.
If it was a virtual product, like a phone credit, it would not have to go through all these hoops in Europe.

Maybe the real answer is that as users with a drive to make bitcoin work in the UK and the EU, its up to us to define its position, rather than wait for the banks and government to do it for us?

If we are calling it a currency, its financial, and its going to be regulated to death.

If we call it an e-commerce voucher, the cat is still in the bag?

This might have legs? Wink

Maybe you can just sell bitcoin wallets

The UK public is very, very stupid and scared.  Not sure when it happened, but nobody seems to want to take a risk anymore, unless the government tell them its ok.

It does seem to me that selling bitcoin voucher books in the form of paper wallets would actually have legs.

Its also quite easy to prove that the wallets have credits in them (see what I did there? Wink  with a blockexplorer on your phone

Maybe that is the future for uk bitcoins - under the radar inflation proof internet vouchers that are accepted internationally - and can be sold in a boot sale?!

The return of the green shield stamps ?

Wink

Wallet option sounds acceptable to. Although when i first read your post, i visualised a high st or market with a 'Bit-Booth' selling vouchers/wallets to Joe Public. Got me thinking now. Are we about to see the sim/contract sellers add Bitcoin to their A boards?
2471  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 26, 2013, 02:28:41 PM
I also think the UK is suffering due to the hurdle you have to get over just to get involved in Bitcoin. If you can't get bitcoin quickly and easily, it limits the number of people getting involved. Then you get a chicken and egg situation - a well-backed UK exchange that could meet the regulatory burden would probably be successful. But without one, there are not enough UK users to justify setting one up.

Agreed. Peer-to-peer exchange / LocalBitcoins / Bitcoin-OTC type stuff may have to take up the slack. It may already be doing so, for all we know.

Funny you mention that. Martin from   https://bitbargain.co.uk/  has just directed me to something else to consider .... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157433.msg1667551

Thanks
2472  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: UK VAT on: March 26, 2013, 02:21:10 PM
Franky1: this is exactly what I thought when I wrote to HMRC, my aim was simply to get it in black and white so as not to get hit with it later.  But based on this letter from HMRC clearly there will be no certainty until there is some kind of legal precedent.  I plan to send them further correspondence on this subject and see what they have to say about themselves.  First I need to do more research and have lots of nice snippets from their own documentation.

Aldur1. This a thread discussing something along the same vane, here ..... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158010.0;topicseen
2473  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 26, 2013, 01:37:11 PM
I think once coinlab in US starts running then UK will follow, coinlab is actually going to have insurance for holdings via Lloyds of london, so the city boys know all about it.

I would have thought that coinlab got insurance on Lloyds of London because that is just about the only place in the world that would consider providing a high sum assured contract covering Bitcoins.

I also think the UK is suffering due to the hurdle you have to get over just to get involved in Bitcoin. If you can't get bitcoin quickly and easily, it limits the number of people getting involved. Then you get a chicken and egg situation - a well-backed UK exchange that could meet the regulatory burden would probably be successful. But without one, there are not enough UK users to justify setting one up.

I think one way to get people involved, is to make something attractive. In the context of an exchange, one attractive element is liquidity/participation. The way to create that, is to initially have a prop trader churning over volume. How much cost/risk is implied here, is probably above my pay grade, but i for one, would be very happy to sit and churn required volume all bloody day!

 
2474  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 26, 2013, 12:10:41 PM
The biggest problem is that this is seen as a financial product or sorts.
If it was a virtual product, like a phone credit, it would not have to go through all these hoops in Europe.

Maybe the real answer is that as users with a drive to make bitcoin work in the UK and the EU, its up to us to define its position, rather than wait for the banks and government to do it for us?

If we are calling it a currency, its financial, and its going to be regulated to death.

If we call it an e-commerce voucher, the cat is still in the bag?

This might have legs? Wink

From what SBC was saying on his insightful post, Bitcoin is currently not recognised as something that needs to be regulated as a currency by the relevant authorities. However, reading between the lines, and sensing how this market is going to develop, its only a matter of short time before that status will change. So yes, re-defining has to be the way to go for the long term. I like the 'us define the position', and we can do that to a certain degree (call it vouchers, credits, collectable coin etc.), but you still have to convince the bank to keep your account open, in the face of doubt and weak or no precedence, in their minds, but Im not hearing a fat lady sing yet, nwbitcoin.
2475  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 26, 2013, 09:51:42 AM
would a UK version of coinlab require the same regulatory approval as an exchange? as I see it coinlab sell you a certain number of BTC at a set price, selling it as a commodity rather than being involved in a currency exchange. It would seem to me that would be much easier to operate as you would essentially be selling virtual goods as opposed to currency trading. I have seen an offer for a uk based site in the marketplace run along similar lines and was considering it's potential.

Hmmm. What about selling a blank casacius coin as a commodity, that is loaded by the client to 'play' with. Does that redefine any regulatory requirements, or obviate anything for the better? I guess that question may end up being rhetorical!
That's an interesting thought - how about a casascius coin that won't be funded until a certain date, that could dodge some regulations?   Grin




The idea is still working for me. How about a 'subscription' to load the pre sent coin?
I am obviously just thinking out loud, so someone please shoot me down, before i convince myself its a go-er!
2476  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 25, 2013, 10:27:05 PM
would a UK version of coinlab require the same regulatory approval as an exchange? as I see it coinlab sell you a certain number of BTC at a set price, selling it as a commodity rather than being involved in a currency exchange. It would seem to me that would be much easier to operate as you would essentially be selling virtual goods as opposed to currency trading. I have seen an offer for a uk based site in the marketplace run along similar lines and was considering it's potential.

Hmmm. What about selling a blank casacius coin as a commodity, that is loaded by the client to 'play' with. Does that redefine any regulatory requirements, or obviate anything for the better? I guess that question may end up being rhetorical!
2477  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 25, 2013, 10:11:41 PM
I think once coinlab in US starts running then UK will follow, coinlab is actually going to have insurance for holdings via Lloyds of london, so the city boys know all about it.

Sounds positive. Is there a time frame for that?
2478  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 25, 2013, 09:23:10 PM
As a UK based bitcoin enthusiast, and someone with a number of years as a business advisor, I have been looking at the UK bitcoin market to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity.

The biggest problem is that the UK is getting very risk averse and so anything which can be regulated, tends to get regulated as soon as someone can lobby for it.  Its getting very expensive to get into any market which involves anything to do with the finance industry. It is possible to start up under the branding of a partner, however, with no such regulations for bitcoin, its a bit of a zombie industry.

I would like to see if its possible to start an exchange based on bitcoin trading being entertainment and gaming, but that then puts you under the gambling regulations, which are possibly even harder to work with!

The main problem with the UK is that it has two masters.  The EU sets its directives, and UK agencies interpret them into laws and policies.  When it comes to business, bosses have to worry about satisfying both the local enforcing agencies as well as national agencies; all of them have to find things to get involve with to justify their funding - allegedly!

Running a business in the UK is hard work! Wink

Could you create a 'derivative' of a given exchange, that takes the form of a game in some way? Like a 'guess where the market will be in...."?, and sell people 'credits' (btc) to play. So the site starts with a pot in an account, that buys on another exchange when a client wants to 'play'.

Just thinking out loud.
2479  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 25, 2013, 08:52:07 PM
I came to the same conclusion as already said, with selling and buying bitcoins in the UK.
It is not easy but the problem stems from regulation issues and the few that did got burned by that, or got burned by an insider scamming them.
I opted to go with a European based company (France) - Bitcoin Centeral, so at the least, it would be less of an issue also one to known to have a good reputation and cooperation with their bank. Something which has been an issue for some in the past where the bank renegades on wanting anything to deal with them, so forced them to shut down operations in their country usually.

I do wish there was a few more in the UK, but on the upside there is so many in the uk, it's not difficult to find a private seller/buyer and do trades directly.

You're right. There are places to privately trade with, if you look, but its not hard to see the premium added to a UK bit, due to the cost of transit (fees/commission/conversion etc). I like many im sure, has opened a Gox account hoping they can buy in the exchange, and sell bits to the UK. Of course that happens, but you really need scale it up to really make it something approaching viable, and as soon as you do that, bells n whistles start to go off at your bank....which brings us back to laundering laws/regs/authorities etc.
So frustrating.
2480  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is UK so slow to jump on this? on: March 25, 2013, 06:17:40 PM
Thanks! - We applied for FSA oversight (book of documentation detailing processes, extortionate legal advice which was pretty worthless frankly etc etc) - and as I mentioned above, they (the FSA) wouldn't give it to us only because Bitcoins don't yet fall within the scope of their definition of money - ergo not regulated by them. The registration fee and three months waiting did buy us an official response indicating that no oversight was currently required however, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

Regarding the second set of regulations; we do fall under the MLR's and that number from HMRC is still pending (bureaucracy at its finest). Our entire business is compliant to the level of a 'Small Payment Institution' - that's why we ask a lot more information than some of our competitors. Again, it's not that we wanted to do - why would any business want to put potential customers through that? - but we we're not likely to be around very long if we don't.

It remains to be seen how the recent recognition of 'Virtual Currencies' in the US plays out over here - the UK (and Europe) tend to tow the 'special relationship' line, so my guess (and it is a guess) is that within the next few months 'guidance' will be issued by Brussels and consequently the FSA/other European Union countries financial regulatory authorities requiring all businesses in this sphere to become compliant. In many ways, this isn't unreasonable - I guess existing companies that currently deal in the money business but not specifically BTC look on and think "Why do I have to be regulated if they don't?" - it kind of levels the playing field a bit.

Thats a solid position the FSA are clearly stating there, which is at least something. Also concur with future compliancy. The market cap of BTC is fast approaching 1$B i think, so i guess there is a level where authorities have to implement processes that officially recognize the market. Moreover, when that day comes, is the day Bitcoin grows up.

Re: MLR. Ive seen the level of deposit on your site, and at those levels, an exchange is obviously not viable. I dont however see a problem with asking for ID etc. other than the over-head of doing so. Like i said, it works for spread betting companies, but i guess they have the correct resources. Are you able to indicate the stated max level of transaction/s, that a Small Payment Institution allows you?

Thanks again for you insight. Maybe, just maybe, it might help someone significant see a way forward.
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