Thought I'd weigh in here. Operating in the UK is not easy - at all. There are two main issues here:
The Payment Services Regulations 2009 - the laws the govern most money businesses with the UK (including banks) lay out clear guidance on the requirements of any business operating in this sector. Now here's where it gets tricky. PSR's 2009 apply to businesses which are generally regulated by the UK Financial Services Authority, but the FSA do not officially recognize BTC as a money service operation - so you can't attain regulation even if your entire operation is wholly compliant. This presents a problem; when a bank does business with you and your account is abused (either with or without your knowledge), because you *don't* have an FSA number - the bank's compliance officer is liable. Effectively the bank is required to demonstrate they were not complicit in the illegal activity. Most banks don't want the hassle or the risk and so they will not sign you up.
In addition to this there is another wonderful set of regulations that apply to any business that could be used for money laundering, funding terrorism or any unlawful activity which derives from the transmission of money; the Money Laundering Regulations 2007. Any business operating in the BTC/GBP space would also needs to put numerous safeguards in place including full auditing, KYC checks, staff training etc to ensure that - if the proverbial fecal matter does hit the fan - they can prove they've done everything reasonably within their power to prevent it happening.
Now, efforts such as Intersango would have succeeded (it was a great exchange) if they had abided by these laws - even if they didn't technically fall under them. Problem was, they didn't. There were no real KYC checks - at least not initially - customers could transfer money from one account and immediately withdraw it through Intersango; causing them to act as a money launderer. In addition; anyone could sign up with almost no information, there were no real transfer limits imposed or other restrictions and of course, as a consequence, they attracted just the sort of individuals that banks cover in red flags and want nothing to do with.
Its an onerous requirement of any business operating in the UK financial space to ask information about the people it does business with. This costs (alot of) money and requires careful thought to system design, process and procedures from the outset. Nobody *wants* to do it, but the law requires that everybody *has* to do it. If you step outside of BTC space for a second, and check out any other money business (1st Contact Forex, Currency Fair, Tradewise etc) - every single one of them is regulated. Every single one of them requires your entire life history before they'll do any business with you - it's the norm. BTC is only the temporary exception and even then - only as a technicality. Unfortunately technicalities won't keep your bank accounts open or your business going.
If you are willing to consider entering the space as a proper business, attempting to dot all the i's and cross all the t's - certainly the opportunity is there. But it's not a Twitter Bootstrap, WordPress weekend job. At least, not if you want to be around in a month.
A great insight. Thanks for that. Is your site http://speedybitcoin.co.uk within the parameters of your noted above requirements? Just trying to judge how far/close away you could be away from operating an exchange, from what you have done so far with speedybit? BTW, very nice looking site.  |
|
|
|
The wall just got poked. Looks like it's real, hasn't been removed yet.  That 5000 order has been there since last night, so pretty solid for now. |
|
|
|
A company run by bums and ignoring laws can get some headway but yep problems with banks would be the end of it eventually.
A company with proper financial backing that would not want to risk it all and be clearly unlawful would find it too difficult and expensive to run perhaps.
As the result no proper exchange in GBP space.
Its those bloody banks again, eh? We never have been allowed to exercise our 82% right to tell RBS what we want, have we?! My experience of exchanges, has been trading them Fx/Futures), so can only surmise how much the overheads and start-up costs are. But how much does Gox pull in, at .5% x 1000s daily? Noticed Gox are currently and urgently taking on staff to cope with the huge spike up in account openings. We should be getting some of that market. |
|
|
|
Wondering what other Brits think about the Bitcoin market in the UK. Specifically, what do you think about not having a professional, fully functioning, recognized Xchange somewhere in the UK, trading high volume GBP/BTC liquidity? From a forward-thinking, enterprising perspective, im kinda thinking that the usual entrepreneurial Brit with funds, has missed this boat a little. Sure, business opportunities in Bitcoin are going to present themselves, as we go on, but currently, im just bombarded with USD biased experiences/interactions, wherever i navigate. Someone correct me if im wrong, but i don't even think https://bitbargain.co.uk/ is UK owned. So, any smart UK centric business bods out there, care to share any current projects. Do you need help? Just a thought, and most definitely not a invitation to swap nationalistic nonsense! Britons are, for what ever reason, particularly indoctrinated. They tend to be more prone to using government to "solve" societal problems (that were caused by government in the first place but thats neither here nor there) and less interested in accepting market based approaches. Britons tend to see the market and government in polarized light of government being the source of all things good and the market being the source of all things bad. Where as Americans see government as a begrudgingly necessary evil, Britons tend see the market as a begrudgingly necessary evil. anyway i should expect this to cause the UK to be a bit behind the curve in all things bitcoin We are, and have been, for many reasons, been many things Anon So there could well be, some reality to your words. Can only hope an entrepreneurial, well funded Brit, has just motivated him/herself to prove those words otherwise. |
|
|
|
Intersango were shaping up to be a strong UK based exchange, but they got scammed by Zhou Tong when they bought Bitcoinica which ruined them financially and also psychologically may have turned them away from Bitcoin as entrepreneurs.
Get that also. But also with clever marketing, could be a reason to build an attractive place to trade. I remember when Spread betting companies suffered from the scurge of dodgy operations when it all first took off early 00's, but there are very well and respected run UK/Gibraltar companies, operating now. |
|
|
|
I guess red tape is too thick. This is why no viable UK based exchange. Treatment of VAT and FSA licensing probably throwing the spanners in the works.
I get that. We certainly tend to build hurdles for ourselves. So i wonder if/how the FSA have been formally approached in some way....yes i watched Bank Of Dave! |
|
|
|
Wondering what other Brits think about the Bitcoin market in the UK. Specifically, what do you think about not having a professional, fully functioning, recognized Xchange somewhere in the UK, trading high volume GBP/BTC liquidity? From a forward-thinking, enterprising perspective, im kinda thinking that the usual entrepreneurial Brit with funds, has missed this boat a little. Sure, business opportunities in Bitcoin are going to present themselves, as we go on, but currently, im just bombarded with USD biased experiences/interactions, wherever i navigate. Someone correct me if im wrong, but i don't even think https://bitbargain.co.uk/ is UK owned. So, any smart UK centric business bods out there, care to share any current projects. Do you need help? Just a thought, and most definitely not a invitation to swap nationalistic nonsense! |
|
|
|
|
Panic over. All back on line.
|
|
|
|
Many thanks for the info. EDIT: Just tried them and they are down also.  |
|
|
|
Many thanks for the info. |
|
|
|
|
Im just getting 'server not found'. All other pages, fine. London
|
|
|
|
The exchange rates are a little outdated in this example, but the point stands: The "price" of a bitcoin is exactly what someone somewhere is willing to pay for it, and someone else is willing to sell it for.
MtGox provides a place for people who want to buy bitcoins and people who want to sell bitcoins to find each other.
Example:
Albert has 100 BTC. He needs to pay his electric bill and the electric company doesn't accept bitcoin as payment. He decides to convert some of his bitcoin to USD. Albert logs on to MtGox and creates a limit order offering to sell 10 of his bitcoin for $33.45 each. He is not willing to sell the bitcoin for less than $33.45 because at any price less than that he'd rather just hold on to the bitcoin and pay his electric bill with other funds.
Bobby only has a two bitcoin that he purchased at $32.50 each. He decides that he doesn't really want bitcoin anymore, but he doesn't want to take loss. He logs on to MtGox and creates a limit order offering to sell his two bitcoin for $32.55 each.
Carl has just received his paycheck. After paying his expenses he has $200 left over. He decides to purchase bitcoin with this money. He feels like the exchange rate might drop a bit and so to get them as cheap as possible, he transfers his money to MtGox and creates a limit order to purchase 6.25 BTC at $32 each.
David just received an inheritance of $10,000. He decides he'd like to hold the entire balance as bitcoin. He has seen the exchange rate varying between $31.50 and $33.50 lately, and hopes he can get the entire balance at $31.50. He creates a limit order at MtGox for 317.460317 BTC at $31.50 each.
Earl is in a hurry. He just wants to buy something from SilkRoad right now, and he'll take whatever the current exchange rate is. He needs $60 worth of bitcoin. He transfers his $60 to MtGox and places a market order for $60 worth of bitcoin. MtGox sees that the cheapest offer to sell bitcoin at their site at the moment is Bobby's offer of 2 bitcoin at $32.55 each. MtGox transfers the $60 from Earl to Bobby and at the same time transfers 1.84331797 bitcoin from Bobby to Earl.
At this hypothetical moment the current bitcoin price is therefore $32.55, since that is the most recent exchange that has occurred.
Earl now has 1.84331797 BTC
Bobby now has $60 and 0.15668203 BTC still available to purchase at an exchange rate of $32.55 per bitcoin.
Now Albert suddenly realizes that he doesn't have enough other funds for his bill. He needs $334.50 right away to pay the bill, and needs to sell the bitcoin quickly to get the necessary money. Albert cancels his limit order and places a market order to sell $334.50 worth of bitcoin. MtGox sees that the most expensive offer to buy bitcoin at their site at the moment is Carl's offer of 6.25 bitcoin at $32 each. MtGox transfers $200 from Carl to Albert, and 6.25 bitcoin from Albert to Carl. Since Albert still needs another $134.50 worth of bitcoin to fulfill his order, MtGox sees that the next highest offer is David's offer of 317.460317 BTC at $31.50 each. MtGox transfers 4.26984127 BTC from Albert to David, and $134.50 from David to Albert.
At this hypothetical moment the current bitcoin price is therefore $31.50, since that is the most recent exchange that has occurred.
Albert now has the $334.50 that he needs, and still has 89.4801587 BTC remaining.
Carl has picked up the 6.25 bitcoin that he wanted, spending the $200 that he wanted to spend.
David has purchased 4.26984127 for $134.50, and still has a limit order out there waiting to be filled for another 313.190467 bitcoin at $31.50 each.
You'll notice that there are actually many "prices" for bitcoin. There is the price that each individual is willing to buy or sell their bitcoin for. Some of the more often quoted prices are the "current Ask", "current Bid" and "most recent exchange".
Prior to Earl coming along, the "Current Ask" was Bobby's $32.55 that he is asking to sell his bitcoin (the lowest price anyone is willing to sell for at that time).
The "Current Bid" was Carl's $32 bid to purchase bitcoin from anyone willing to sell that cheap (the highest anyone is willing to pay to buy at that time).
I like that. Its a perfect demonstration of all the kinds of players and participants in any given market, not including brokers, speculators, traders, investors etc. and each one of those has their own price, which represents to them, value. A traded price could be explained as an agreement of value between two parties, at that time. |
|
|
|
Buying BTC now. I offer you an uncomplicated selling process, with transparent and competitive quotes, based on current exchange prices. I do not add fees. I execute orders/purchases and payments in one continuous process, as fast as is electronically possible. This ensures you have your funds immediately after 6 confirms are achieved on http://blockchain.info/en PM me for a no-nonsense quote, and further contact details. Cash/In person payments possible, by arrangement. Thanks |
|
|
|
|
Im seeing multi 1000 lots roughly every $0.5 from here up to $75, on the gox order book. They look meaningful orders at the mo
|
|
|
|
We created BitcoinChain.com as an informational and analytical resourse about Bitcoin for users. We have got a lot of suggestions and wishes so we are making a poll. What new features are the most important and desirable. For me, its a stable order book, a time and sales table, and a well defined chart, all on one page. Clarkmoody has nearly got it all, but its so unstable. Ive noticed stability on other sites also, so maybe its a Gox problem. |
|
|
|
Is that right 23,000 volume in the last 15mins?
hell yeah, that's correct  Well if i had a stable Gox order book, that would have been interesting to watch. Is everyone else having issues with clarkmoody data? |
|
|
|
|
Is that right 23,000 volume in the last 15mins?
|
|
|
|
You have singlehandedly elevated the level of discourse on these forums by several degrees... for that alone, you deserve our praise and thanks.
Here here, and hooray for that. Hal. I am humbled. |
|
|
|
A rather chunky 9204 order @ 49.95
....and another 4606 bang on the 50 |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
