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Everyone who is going to bid please read the main post fully. I changed a few things.
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I just saw a quote by a user that Monero has an "opaque blockchain" which I don't think is correct.
Monero has a private blockchain, in the the sender and receiver are always protected from knowing each other, but (correct me if I'm wrong here) the amount of money moving across the blockchain is still visible in some respects.
If someone sent 300,000 Monero across the blockchain, then observers would be able to see that a large amount of money moved today but not be able to pin it down to a particular user or transaction time (with proper mixin settings)
I thought that with the new CT ring developments coming out, people wouldn't be able to tell what amount of monero is being transacted unless you have the right key which shows you the amount for that particular transaction? Wouldn't this be a non issue with the upcoming developments? In theory yes. It has not been implemented yet into monero so testing needs to happen over months to come. For now AP is right you can see how much is moved and when. But not who sent to who specifically. |
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Bitcoin still has to deal with the related issues of the 1 MB blocksize limit and the development of a fee market for when the emission runs out. Both of these issues will over time prove to be fatal. Monero has both of them fixed. Bitcoin can buy some time by increasing the blocksize limit in a hard fork, but I do not see a solution to the question of securing the network once the emission runs out.
The privacy / fungibility of Monero will in the end turn out to be by comparison just a bonus.
As Trace Mayer eluded to, transaction privacy is much more of an important topic with bitcoin than the block size as of right now. Emission of bitcoin won't run out for what like 4 decades? I dont know the exact number of years. Bitcoin transactions aren't taking up the full 1MB yet but at the same time there has been countless hours of discussions, trolling, conferences, travel, phone calls etc that are all billable hours yet it isn't that big of an issue to the people hiring bitcoin to do what it is they want bitcoin to do. Yes, but this ignores the impact of cross chain mixing. If Monero were to grow to a size that could threaten Bitcoin, normal trading between Bitcoin and Monero would make most Bitcoin blockchain analysis very difficult if not impossible. Even today a simple way to mix Bitcoin is to sell Bitcoin for Monero, run the XMR through the Monero network with say a mixin of 5 and then trade the Monero back for Bitcoin. If the amounts are below typical AML/KNC levels this can be done both legally and anonymously. By the way the ratio of the emission to the number of coins of Bitcoin will be below that of Monero in about 13 years. (1.5625 XBT per 10 min vs 3 XMR per 10 min). This is a lot sooner that many realize. As for the 1 MB blocksize limit if there is any significant growth in Bitcoin the impact will be felt when transactions simply do not confirm. My take is that are "good enough" privacy / fungibility fixes for Bitcoin, including ironically Monero itself. The issues I have raised are fundamentally fatal and cannot be easily fixed. Edit: Take care of the longterm and the short term will take care of itself. The reverse is not the case. We need to see how things pan out. There is so much going on in this world and the implications of cryptocurrency and how it fits into our world is going to be mind boggling. Your topics are definitely ones to consider but I do not think one is more important than another. I think they are all issues and over time we dont know what the future will throw at us to know which of these issues truly is going to be of utmost attention to consider. With monero it seems all bases are covered. SO that is a good thing. So much info to consider.  |
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You can't have privacy in a currency without fungibility. This was an interesting find: LINK: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/privacy-and-fungibility/"Privacy is the weakest link in censorship resistance. Fungibility is an absolute necessity for any medium of exchange. The properties of money include fungibility. Without privacy you may not be able to have fungibility." Monero gives us privacy on the blockchain (still working on i2p integration from what I've heard). The problem is that regular people don't even know what Fungiblilty means. And most not even care, unless the effects of its lack in bitcoin will start causing problems. It's a word. But they will know what it means when their currency is not being accepted as any other of the same "type". Then they know what that word means (not specifically that word but the impression it will give a person when it happens). |
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October 22nd, 2015: Auction for One 2013 UNFUNDED LEALANA 1 oz 999 Fine silver with Gold BTC 1 BTC Coin   *****Carefully read this auction post in its entirety before bidding*****Auction ends at or around October 26th, 2015 Hawaiian Standard TimeThere is no specific hour this auction to end. Get your bid in early. I will announce on that day when the auction has ended.Minimum bid will start at 0.1BTC. Bidding will be done in 0.02BTC increments. Shipping Costs and LiabilitiesA. You can ship it for $10 in an unsecure manner. <----------- Any person going this route by bidding is agreeing to take on the risk of their package getting lost or stolen. Any digital BTC value and subsequent value of this coin I and LEALANA, LLC. will not be held liable for. You will hold myself and LEALANA, LLC. harmless and innocent should that happen to your package while in transit. US customers will have it shipped in a small flat rate box while international customers will have it shipped in a padded envelope via first class USPS. OR B. If you choose secure shipping (Registered USPS mail) it will be $30 for US and $50 for International bidders. Shipping costs will be added to the winning bid after the auction. Bitcoin is the only accepted form of payment for this auction. Coins for this auction will ship out by November 2nd, 2015.You are bidding for the following unfunded/buyer funded coins:
One 2013 UNFUNDED LEALANA 1 oz 999 Fine silver with Gold BTC 1 BTC Coin (Black address)By bidding on this auction you are agreeing to the terms listed at: http://lealana.com/tac.phpThe winner can choose how many coins they want to pre fund. All coins not pre funded before it ships will be marked "BUYER FUNDED" with a laser mark to each coin's hologram.
THESE COINS ARE BUYER FUNDED. The winner by bidding on this auction will accept the risks involved with shipping funded coins through USPS registered mail. The coins will be valued at the price paid plus the bitcoin that is loaded on to them. Winner agrees to hold LEALANA, LLC. and myself innocent of any losses while in transit (in the small event the coin goes missing/stolen while in transit).
Any customs/VAT taxes or fees that are placed on the package while going through customs for international customers are the responsibility of the buyer/winner to pay.Please bid in the following format (no extra precision decimals): CORRECT FORMAT
"I bid 1.07 BTC" INCORRECT FORMAT
"I bid 1.074839282"Should bids come in at the last minute I will allow for the auction to extended by 15 minute increments between bids. Once the 15 minutes is up and no bidding is done after the deadline specified ABOVE, the auction will end. To be clear on the precision of the auction times in 15 minute increments we are talking about the actual MINUTE and not the seconds that are posted on the forum timestamp. Payment address: 1GQtDN145MfzZ4Jm1ofaMuDEjhaVNf2WumPlease do not send payment to any winner address until the winner has been declared which I will post once the auction ends. If you would like a non-public payment address PM me and I will create a PGP signed address for you to send payment to. Payment is due within 72 hours from the time the auction ends. Should the winner not honor their bid and not provide payment in that 72 period the next highest bidder will be required to honor their bid. By bidding in this auction thread you agree to this stipulation. In other words, please make sure you are able to honor your bid(s) in a timely manner before you bid.I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO INVALIDATE A BID FROM NEWBIE USERS. USUALLY THIS WILL BE THE CASE IF I HAVE NEVER DONE BUSINESS WITH YOU BEFORE.AUCTION WINNER INFORMATION SUBMISSION:
*If you win, please send me (IN ONE PRIVATE MESSAGE) immediately ALL of the following information as it is needed to ship you your coins correctly/promptly:
1. The # of coins you want to prefund. Which types and how many.
2. FULL Shipping information:
FIRST AND LAST NAME
STREET ADDRESS & BUILDING/SUITE #
CITY
STATE
COUNTRY
POSTAL CODE
PHONE NUMBER
EMAIL ADDRESS
3. If you are outside of the US and want to insure prefunded coins please send me PM for details.
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You can't have privacy in a currency without fungibility. This was an interesting find: LINK: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/privacy-and-fungibility/"Privacy is the weakest link in censorship resistance. Fungibility is an absolute necessity for any medium of exchange. The properties of money include fungibility. Without privacy you may not be able to have fungibility." Monero gives us privacy on the blockchain (still working on i2p integration from what I've heard). |
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I thought this would be relevant as Monero is much more private/fungible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6sAndreas A. seems to believe that bitcoin can work on its "fungibility".  Andreas: "We need to address the issue of fungibility..." ... "the metric of economic inclusion is very much affected by the fungibility and black lists ..."Also... Dr. Adam Back says in regards to Bitcoin (in Feb 2014) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dAdI3Gzodo&feature=youtu.be&t=28m31s
"Weak fungibility: Feature & bug"
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect"
"Bitcoin privacy is fragile (Shamir & Dorit network analysis)"By Dr. Adam Back's definition of fungibility PLUS(+) his statement of "Bitcoin privacy is fragile" you therefore can deduce Dr. Adam Back also believes that Bitcoin's fungibility is also fragile.If monero and bitcoin started out with the same user base initially (of course this is not true) do we think bit coin or Monero would be more well adopted? I don't know the answer to this. But I tend to think that if a crypto-coin offers the option of privacy and the other does not in the same magnitude of privacy then it therefore means Bitcoin (the coin that does not have privacy enabled by default) is inferior to Monero. Just my two cents for today.  As it happens, now there is a thread on reddit, claiming the opposite: "Bitcoin has no fungibility problem" https://en.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ptbx1/bitcoin_has_no_fungibility_problem/made my own  : https://en.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3puvia/lets_talk_about_bitcoins_fungibility_privacy/ |
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Already, businesses are springing up that are selling bitcoin with no previous transaction fee at a premium. This violates the principle of money fungibility.
What businesses? Quite doubtful many people would pay a premium (?) for "clean" Bitcoins. I'm sure they would pay for "clean" coins... but would some people a premium for coins just minted with only the coinbase transaction history from the miner? I could see that if someone has a fear of receiving coins associated with a crime. |
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Bitcoin still has to deal with the related issues of the 1 MB blocksize limit and the development of a fee market for when the emission runs out. Both of these issues will over time prove to be fatal. Monero has both of them fixed. Bitcoin can buy some time by increasing the blocksize limit in a hard fork, but I do not see a solution to the question of securing the network once the emission runs out.
The privacy / fungibility of Monero will in the end turn out to be by comparison just a bonus.
As Trace Mayer eluded to, transaction privacy is much more of an important topic with bitcoin than the block size as of right now. Emission of bitcoin won't run out for what like 4 decades? I dont know the exact number of years. Bitcoin transactions aren't taking up the full 1MB yet but at the same time there has been countless hours of discussions, trolling, conferences, travel, phone calls etc that are all billable hours yet it isn't that big of an issue to the people hiring bitcoin to do what it is they want bitcoin to do. |
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Reposting this to get some poll data. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6sAndreas A. seems to believe that bitcoin can work on its "fungibility". Andreas: "We need to address the issue of fungibility..." ... "the metric of economic inclusion is very much affected by the fungibility and black lists ..."Also… Dr. Adam Back says in regards to Bitcoin (in Feb 2014) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dAdI3Gzodo&feature=youtu.be&t=28m31s
"Weak fungibility: Feature & bug"
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect"
"Bitcoin privacy is fragile (Shamir & Dorit network analysis)"By Dr. Adam Back's definition of fungibility PLUS(+) his statement of "Bitcoin privacy is fragile" you therefore can deduce Dr. Adam Back also believes that Bitcoin's fungibility is also fragile. |
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Spare us your appeal to authority please It just demonstrates that these guys, as smart as they are (have my doubts about Andreas), are also guilty of using wrong terminologies. Spare me your assumptions of my "appeal to authority". Speak for yourself. There is no "us" in "you". You don't have to like what Dr. Adam Back and Andreas A. have said on record. But it is what they said. And no they are not my leader nor are they my authority, if you were presuming that. I guess to you what they say does not matter. That's fine. No one is making you listen to me nor them. Just put me on ignore if you cant handle it.  |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6sAndreas A. seems to believe that bitcoin can work on its "fungibility". Andreas: "We need to address the issue of fungibility..." ... "the metric of economic inclusion is very much affected by the fungibility and black lists ..."Also... Dr. Adam Back says in regards to Bitcoin (in Feb 2014) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dAdI3Gzodo&feature=youtu.be&t=28m31s
"Weak fungibility: Feature & bug"
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect"
"Bitcoin privacy is fragile (Shamir & Dorit network analysis)"By Dr. Adam Back's definition of fungibility PLUS(+) his statement of "Bitcoin privacy is fragile" you therefore can deduce Dr. Adam Back also believes that Bitcoin's fungibility is also fragile.
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I thought this would be relevant as Monero is much more private/fungible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6sAndreas A. seems to believe that bitcoin can work on its "fungibility". Andreas: "We need to address the issue of fungibility..." ... "the metric of economic inclusion is very much affected by the fungibility and black lists ..."Also... Dr. Adam Back says in regards to Bitcoin (in Feb 2014) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dAdI3Gzodo&feature=youtu.be&t=28m31s
"Weak fungibility: Feature & bug"
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect"
"Bitcoin privacy is fragile (Shamir & Dorit network analysis)"By Dr. Adam Back's definition of fungibility PLUS(+) his statement of "Bitcoin privacy is fragile" you therefore can deduce Dr. Adam Back also believes that Bitcoin's fungibility is also fragile.If monero and bitcoin started out with the same user base initially (of course this is not true) do we think bit coin or Monero would be more well adopted? I don't know the answer to this. But I tend to think that if a crypto-coin offers the option of privacy and the other does not in the same magnitude of privacy then it therefore means Bitcoin (the coin that does not have privacy enabled by default) is inferior to Monero. Just my two cents for today. |
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So is Monero the Platinum to Bitcoin's gold?  Duh. Welcome to one year ago! Way to arrive at the party fashionably late.  Yes Icey-pooh I know you said this long ago. I just wanted to say it again. Edit: I was around in June 2014. So i'm not as late as you might think. |
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Other people are indeed having real problems with withdrawals. Cryptsy needs to fix these issues. This is getting absurd.
Now they've drastically reduced the maximum withdrawal limits for unverified accounts to $25/day or $100/month - and that month started 30 days ago. Is this true? I just imagined sending some BTC there, not knowing about this, just to find out that it'll take me years to get my BTC back out of the exchange. Cryptsy, 0.4 BTC per month? Come on, you cannot be serious on this. Yes, new limits imposed in last few hours, tier 0 (unverified) is now max $25 a day, max $100 a month Their claim is probably they are under some sort of regulatory scrutiny which is bullshit. They are trying to keep people from withdrawing their coins. Simple as that. MTGOX 2.0 |
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Bytecoin has a huge premine and benefits the developer a lot. Monero is fairer. However, the Bytecoin has much bigger market capitalization than Monero.
market cap means nothing when you have 80% of the entire supply to keep the price from plummeting. If I have 1 trillion coins that are worth $0.0001 That is a higher market cap than a coin that has 100,000,000 coins that are worth $0.10 each. More coins makes the market cap higher plus having a 80% premine doesnt make it lower either. Bytescam |
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Ok, they have pushed out a fix, and my withdrawal is going through, so quick, get your coins out whilst you can
run for the exits? |
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