if you have a name - and an address - it jumps to $10,000 per month.
$10k doesn't do jack shit for me. I'm trying to withdraw 1,000,000 CSC right now from a tier 0 account and it's just been stuck for 48 hours listed as pending. That's $16 - 18k at current prices and they just keep telling me they can't find the withdrawal in the account and close the ticket. They can't find it because they dont want to. ALl they would need to do is get your confirmation through your account and email and they could put it through to you if they really could not find it after numerous times. |
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Mining is an arms race and I refuse to race for the tiny carrot reward at the end of the race.
Rather just buy whatever it is you are considering mining.
If you're clever, you do both. Thus making XMR harder to mine. Thus increasing the value of the XMR you bought, since the supply dries up at prices below the mining cost. Cleverness has nothing to do with ability to run a mining farm. Money has everything to do with it as you could simply hire someone to set it up for you if you have the money to fund it all. You bring up a good point as the mining reward decreases in theory your holdings and value of XMR should go up. That may take some time before that happens. Less of a head ache mining for me personally. Aside from understanding the proof of work system I may do only what smooth advocates...solo mine (with cpus) lol Would be nice if the smart mining was implemented so those who are using that version could mine XMR and support the network while their cpu cycles are normally idle or not in usage. What is smart mining? How would it affect solo cpu mining? I think it has been placed for a future version but this is what I was able to find: https://forum.getmonero.org/1/news-and-announcements/112/monday-monero-missives-20-december-8th-2014We're also quite happy to announce the addition of a new feature to Monero: Smart Mining. This is a feature that will evolve over time, but at its most basic it is something that will allow everyone running the client software to support the network in an unobtrusive manner. Smart Mining detects your CPU usage, and if your CPU is idle and you aren't on battery power (for laptops and/or connected UPS devices) it will begin mining. As soon you switch to battery power or your CPU activity picks up it will pause mining until it sees it is safe to start again. You still set your Monero address for Smart Mining, as always, and whilst your chances of solving a block may be relatively small (for now;) it is still an easy way to support the network without needing to purchase expensive equipment. This work is complete (for Linux) and is currently being tweaked to work on our other supported operating systems. Ongoing process can be followed here: https://github.com/oranjuice/bitmonero/tree/smart-mining |
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Fat Tay Choon went to the Mining Academy in Brazil, east of Satoshi's yurt, where Gavin was kidnapped by the CIA's goons and forced to pretend fucking an anonymous decentralized biscuit—better than all the fish in the Pacific Ocean—but also to defray leeches intelligently with ECDSA fighting qubits for 16.8 dree12, or Phinnaeus must fling toilets towards psy‐ops, without potato smoothies mixed with fried chicken wings from BitMunchies.com, urbanchickennj.com, and Popeye's Bitcoin wallet, which deleted Satoshi's premine ability to cheer very victoriously, none like Butterfly Labs better enabled, but also Pirate crashing AIR applications without the express use of interest-free scams, conspiring with fraudulent sockpuppets and PPTs and..., you troll-herding piece of Shiitake mushroom, go lick Goat's horns until Theymos admits to having a quite erotic fetish involving honey badgers wearing thongs composed of soggy burlap waffles dangling from cosmic linoleum-based iphones running quantum chips explodes spewing deadly acid! b!z screamed out "Light is bright like...like... stars." When Markjamrobin opens the isolated window, he sees three pigs together in bed. Kouye and myself laugh when chinese food falls the impact kills Obama Bin ladin whoever thinks he may be terrorist, is correct but hates the bitcoin logo. Earth has snakes. Currently, the other species have decimated to tiny groups called "marko solo" whatever time it all comes and ends? However, Bitcoin's acidity level dipped causing catastrophic double-spends!
Meanwhile, AntiOps was confused by the awkward change to his penis melting uncontrollably. Vanilla Ice perfume spritzed onto cheese and greasy slime covered with babies boiled in a smelly old heatsink. But it tasted like shit therefore it poisoned his blood although he did survive. Reproductive organisms attacked the internal testicle which caused terrible congestion somehow. Evolution then terminated the smelly old business thank the inability of AntiOps to lock Satoshi's thread. In a transactional forum there was a debate about hacking unprotected accounts, however the debate shortly ended.
Phinnaeus Gage, king pluto, duke of the people. Returned one of his loans that he fraudulently claimed without declaring intentionally. Although this was bullshit. Earth was hit by a meteor which cause catastrophic events which cause people to cause mass destruction by proxy voting it was documented recently on the news that oranges are disguised anti-gravity pockets which have giant bears attacked Zeus because bitcoin accidentally crashed to Mars which created spaceships and aliens who pretended being humans wearing hats on their toes.
Altcoin suck on apples and oranges too. Megacoin is the most shit sucker of apples and melons ever. Most people love to troll others. Evolution is a slow process which created forks. It is beneficial to wash your feet because it distributes bacteria and oil, notwithstanding the beneficial attributes which are how chocolate arouses some of the miners brains. Today was an abysmal event which caused many abnormal but not smart bitcoiners because many of them are cute animals who were insane because of excessive oreo consumption. One watermelon is not love how people try me explotation Maybe Heisenberg Breaking bad control guy director or masturbation my time vampire drinks urine not lemon tek and water supernatural.
LEALANA is fat looking because pizza is sour with pickles which are sexy and never rot. So many people eat pizza it's unbelievable. The news said that pizza is bought mainly with anchovies which results in big wet weather which had massive gusts of wind with pouring milk down on everyones throat because it feels great! Although honey is very sweet taste it makes when it is served hot it melts softly but slowly.
The universe is populated with many planets which were destroyed by pirateat40. Cyborgs then warped to the zoo and ate mushroom with a aerospace technician. Bitcoin has used a lot resources from peoples although people smell like melons.
Ipods suck. Androids rule. Altcoins also suck peanuts. Bitcoin is the greatest idea that has ever been created by man although litecoin sucks? Once upon a time Gandalf went to wal-mart to dry her hair. Minecraft is the best game in universe because chickens cluck. 231134421 is one crazy big ass monkey. What is with people posting replies still. Terraria is a crazy game which requires extreme concentration. This can result in health cubes; Parentheses are a pain in the brain. This noodle is disgusting. Although spaceships cry waterfalls they are magical little elves. Golden towns is very annoying and smell like bacon. Celebrities are awesome and smart. But, evolution taught us that butterflys are ugly.
Vitamin D is important to scam Taras and raise taxes which would cause the world to go crazy but not insane. Obama is the president now. Alot of gamers will illustrate sony that nintendo is leading the infiltration of Iran. Microsoft Windows was salivating pedophiles of the coastal farts. Yet the banana shrank. What was doge poo doing under the bridge with bridge cleaner? He was just he's aren't because something something different like seems incorrect, because we fucked. Yet prunes prunes are very bad lad's yet unknown to fuckers SWEARING. Banana monkey is not virgin-horse. Corn.
This disappoints satan more than satoshi because he ate hydrochloric pools and he fucked whores who are sick shemales shemales shemales BANGCOCK! God smited non-believers with dicks on a stick. They shat together sitting upside-down flicking birdies. Baezl'bub slept with Hitler inside a bomb ticking furiously and hodling. That was awesome. Bitmit made belt so that walruses can shit on his dick and eat mushroom full of wonderful shit, he HODL'd BTCs and Dogecoin with a succubus sperm from first blowjob stories.
Nefarious words spoken shit at bitcointalk and destroyed uranus with a big-ass Spaceship mouth that eats goats flying shuttle that revolves expressly and quietly to hell. Gamma flux destroyed Litecoin with a barracks producing Atreides shit and Kadafi. Same Binladen puppet goxed clients sucking lollipops shaped like mixed frapuccino lids. Goku start this fight prematurely in Odessa Klondike's yard. Winter is not shitty. Gooches. Seven. Humanity sold pubes to Zeus. Nevertheless, Cinnamon was crying. Millennium breakdown caused diversification methheads cardinally. Hyper-inflation, epidemics with marshmallows made by government chodes and yeah. The End. No. Yes. Lies. Stop. Can. Do aliens have any bitcoins? No. Instead, PPC acts quickly like FTL shit, riffraff toys.
Miracles happen like cannibals spitting sinew and elephants which innocent love and shit has never fucked up! Dank has killed bysexuals... wait, when did Karpeles said/say McDonald's sucks? Colonel Tom sex-machine The 3.14159265358th must fook anything that goes into a section. Beaware of spellcheckers. Fantômas portuguese are sobriquet of Fernão who called them Coads-nigs! They say we are azoth, biblical tittynopes who can't mine the janiceps'. He biblically took Rosenzweig and ended this game. And then wanked, wanked clitoris next door. This was done. Moreover, crack was rapidly dephosphorylated due to complications anhidrotically, metaphorically whores go mooooooooo and ahhhhhhhhhhhhh while jon snow watch has ended this thread for good.
Not... Actually, maybe futuristically, Vod (MIA) sailing CASASCIUS up Padma Lakshmi's waxed butt and... Nevermind, but acknowledging that Gavin held security. This marks, categorically, that will create scientific controvertist of global heliolatry problems indistinguishably noticeable filipino heritage, unbeknownst to Slenderman XT phenomena. GLEB sucked smoothie's brains using juicy zombies, dicks, Popsicles, and alien vaginas to rotten flesh of Vod. Meanwhile, giant marsupials are having suicidal sex appeal for four tentacles, watching child whoopee. Therefore, vegetables are unpretentiously super[...]docious. Fruits are rotten potatoes, avouchment vouched x10 malware because aliens kidnapped JarJar, mercilessly LeFodorliar and Gleb Gamow lived days along seashore, Theymos abused his Authoritah by forcing a purple pill To Fly! Serendipitously, awsome! Then I started UFOing on their ass, savagely. But, it is impeccable to realize I farted psychedelic asparagus smoothies. However, Mexico is shit and... Rephrase that, corporations syria declared terrorists irreproachable because malevolence misappropriates monetary suffrage suggesting termination.
Meanwhile, yogurt spill has begun to fall onto houses and cars, hawkishly attempting to grab two crayons, inserting phallic Popsicles® into Theymos' abysm until... POOP! The excruciating pain took aeons to appreciate plethoric folliculitis silvestris poop generator. Why nidificate the indigenous spirit called "erection"? Prepossessingly, pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis a discomfortable endoplasmic tumescent pineapple tree branch rectally QuickSeller escrow. Involution, presumptuously titin pop up inconsiderately - Tuesday - when pokemon (Pokémon)'s Pikachu flashbacked borders dementia caused horrendous pain inside Agumon's PocketPussy™.
Daft Punk punked Dank with pussy heavy hookah shot whilst levitating abroad oceans blue that fadedly waved the unseen quote yet cited. Unjust superexcrescences excuses me because of Neotox produced such force by Poseidon's Trident of Taured. Now, albeit-albeit DARKCOIN-SCAMCOIN but tried to interlock coins out of your anal cavity filled lordly exponentially with bold pumpkins wiggling back to school days yesterday morning. Onomatopoeias ate language. Rigveda inside coupons collectively jumped over the "Core Mission". Pussies annihilate doge.
Pythons and anacondas don't squirt unless you got into buns coin phlegm on their tongues. Why did GLEB touch my vault extravagantly? I galumphed after midnight parade on my horse galloping in reverse to realize "holey-moley". Forgotten equines maybe because MONERO promotions failed for several days made before ends of christmas so that it won't morbidly end happily at all. Overlord espials all within the safehouse CRACK and maths are increasingly hard to ejaculate onto pomegranates with penises flying about. Suddenly, Nikko realised, "SHIT! ...Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, AGAIN!"
We shall never, NEVER go back beepbopping again. Then afterwards, Zelda found prophylactics transforming Macarena calisthenics to defeat her Herculean strenght - strength mispelled porpoisely - with Who (Doctor) movie scaring the fuck out of Casper. Time Lord fag get net work for Nicholas Tesla who's balls bounce before he collapsed after scratch the boobs of Vod. Vod never realized that was something amiss with quikseller of bitcointalk site escrow because he penetrated to the secret vault of stat and doubled the the bitcoins of the prison where Nakamoto lives imprisoned sans serif comics. Polymorphism, exhibitionism? No! NO! Exterminate! what the hell is happaning? Why did Satoshi die? It was because he farted on Lady "Gaga" Godiva.
Junior Samples make a wonder filled with excitement: Call Saul (BR549). Breaking Bad epitomizes the entirety of the methamphetamine movement. Alexithymia is putrid like smelly whit of publicity stunt whoopie such fail in mining field lockers that hentai sites gangbang with Hatsune Miku tentacles. The feelings I encountered when I meet the president, Millard Homomorphicity IV, I eyed him quizzically. Once Upon a Midnight afternoon when Gonzalez unwillingly took the rulebook down to Alabama and shat shit on the NASCAR while ca333 aka Bubba Kaninski filmed awesome rims.
Smoothie once lethargically stroked Phinnaeus Gage Vod where buffalo barrage claims cowpatties slapped
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Other people are indeed having real problems with withdrawals. Cryptsy needs to fix these issues. This is getting absurd.
Now they've drastically reduced the maximum withdrawal limits for unverified accounts to $25/day or $100/month - and that month started 30 days ago. wow lol a whole $100 a month...lol what a joke... link? screenshot? |
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It was said that, the second any of these satoshi is connected to a dirty satoshi, since its not possible to discriminate individually, then all sats from that transaction are dirty. And i said that is ridiculous and discriminating as such is just doing so for the sake of the arguments. Its ridiculous but that seem to be what is being said and that however is something i directly do not agree with. it appears to be a difference of what you define fungibility is to you brg444 and how I choose to define it to me. To each his own. |
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Are we discussing the fact that Bitcoin is not perfectly fungible, or how big an issue a lack of fungibility is?
Personally, i'm saying the concept of grading a currency's fungibility is fine, but its not a problem or even really applicable for Bitcoin, since fungibility not meant to apply to a transaction history. Its possible to argue semantics, but the fact remain that it is not an issue and as long as there are exchanges who take any for the full price, it does not matter if some does not. And since those exchanges thrives on the value of bitcoin and getting the most traffic possible, refusing certain BTC based on transaction history is simply not going to happen. TLDR: Fungibility does not apply to a currency,s transaction history, ledger. That BTC has a public ledger does not change that fact. You can start cherrypicking but the clerk at the market you're buying stuff from really does not give a damn about the Bill,s transaction history, but it could be asked, just as it could be checked for BTC. BTC is not any different, its just transparent. My main concern is people saying that bitcoins imperfect fungibility is not and could not be a problem at any magnitude.
Outright saying fungibility does not apply to Bitcoin is pure ignorance of the facts.
Thats because fungibility cause a problem for normal currency, but it does not for Bitcoin. Its like a different universe with different laws of physics. Its facts, not ignorance. Your own analogy of bills dated or marked with perfume was debunked by me showing a clear difference in the enforceability of acceptance of denial of physical cash vs Bitcoin. You never retorted but rather ignored the glaring problem with your analogy. Go back and read your own post. Its because you aim on a specific word or sentence and ignore what the analogy its trying to explain. Its like a angry bull that is seeing red; I'm saying, the transaction history of Bills but even more so the transaction history of FIAT which most of it is done Online is the same as Bitcoin. The transaction history is there, its available, just not publicly. Yet FIAT is still finely fungible and in that aspect, BTC is just as well, the difference is that BTC's ledger is publicly available, for transparency. That does not change anything. Everyone is able to discriminate either way, it just does not matter if they do. So for FIAT and for BTC, fungibility is not a problem. Fiat gets its fungibility from governments. Hard to compare the two really. You originally made an analogy and all I can do is take that analogy and run with it. If you had something else to say in a more elegant way you should have said that instead of your broken analogy that fell apart just on the enforceability topic between the two (bitcoin and fiat "blacklisting").
It isn't my fault that you gave such a bad analogy that didn't hold up when you really put it into practice from a regulatory stand point.Yeah it doesn't matter right now but it definitely can matter in the future. I've never said it is a huge problem right now, but only that it can be a big problem in the future if things don't go in the direction you are bias to. Neither of us know the future (as we are in uncharted waters with bitcoin) but I do know that there is a possibility for fungibility (or distinguishability) to be a hot topic of discussion and potentially a problem with bitcoin's usage (given the legacy banking system is still around). Transparency of the ledger does change something...the ability to discriminate. You can't discriminate with using fiat as it is government decreed to be accepted for payment of debts public and private as well as payment for goods and services that is the medium of exchange. That is the difference. |
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Mining is an arms race and I refuse to race for the tiny carrot reward at the end of the race.
Rather just buy whatever it is you are considering mining.
If you're clever, you do both. Thus making XMR harder to mine. Thus increasing the value of the XMR you bought, since the supply dries up at prices below the mining cost. Cleverness has nothing to do with ability to run a mining farm. Money has everything to do with it as you could simply hire someone to set it up for you if you have the money to fund it all. You bring up a good point as the mining reward decreases in theory your holdings and value of XMR should go up. That may take some time before that happens. Less of a head ache mining for me personally. Aside from understanding the proof of work system I may do only what smooth advocates...solo mine (with cpus) lol Would be nice if the smart mining was implemented so those who are using that version could mine XMR and support the network while their cpu cycles are normally idle or not in usage. |
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Are we discussing the fact that Bitcoin is not perfectly fungible, or how big an issue a lack of fungibility is?
Personally, i'm saying the concept of grading a currency's fungibility is fine, but its not a problem or even really applicable for Bitcoin, since fungibility not meant to apply to a transaction history. Its possible to argue semantics, but the fact remain that it is not an issue and as long as there are exchanges who take any for the full price, it does not matter if some does not. And since those exchanges thrives on the value of bitcoin and getting the most traffic possible, refusing certain BTC based on transaction history is simply not going to happen. TLDR: Fungibility does not apply to a currency,s transaction history, ledger. That BTC has a public ledger does not change that fact. You can start cherrypicking but the clerk at the market you're buying stuff from really does not give a damn about the Bill,s transaction history, but it could be asked, just as it could be checked for BTC. BTC is not any different, its just transparent. My main concern is people saying that bitcoins imperfect fungibility is not and could not be a problem at any magnitude.
Outright saying fungibility does not apply to Bitcoin is pure ignorance of the facts.
Thats because fungibility cause a problem for normal currency, but it does not for Bitcoin. Its like a different universe with different laws of physics. Its facts, not ignorance. Your own analogy of bills dated or marked with perfume was debunked by me showing a clear difference in the enforceability of acceptance of denial of physical cash vs Bitcoin. You never retorted but rather ignored the glaring problem with your analogy. Go back and read your own post. |
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My main concern is people saying that bitcoins imperfect fungibility is not and could not be a problem at any magnitude.
Outright saying fungibility does not apply to Bitcoin is pure ignorance of the facts.
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If the time comes that certain coins are considered permanently clean and others permanently dirty in a future regulated world system,
the community as a whole should purposefully contaminate all clean coins found on the blockchain.
And what incentive does anyone have in doing that? Should we use the Bitcoin Honor System(TM) and hope people are willing to devalue their clean money? I have a better idea. Fungibility. I see a pattern happening here: 1. Issues raised with Bitcoin's fungibility get brought to light 2. Supporters of bitcoin's "fungibility" propose solution X 3. Those who want to see reality for what it is go on to debunk solution X given it is a patch to the system and not an actualy addition to bitcoin's protocol which attempts to fix bitcoin's fungibility issues in a ROUND-ABOUT-WAY. 4. repeat step 2 for solution X+1 until X+n is reached 5. agree to disagree There are so many supposed solutions to fixing bitcoin's fungibility problem but they don't hit the issue head on. It is always some sort of of chain (outside of bitocin protocol) PATCH which does not fix anything deterministically 100%. Fungibility isint a problem in the first place. Its not because a dead man said it need to be fungible than the principle still hold true. I very much doubt he could foresee hundreds of years in the future that money would become digital and ethereal. Now we're in the era of Security. So in the future if you took your bitcoins to all bitcoin merchants to spend them or exchange them and you are denied doing so because of your coins being tainted that's not a problem? I would see it as a problem. Most merchants that accept online transactions, FIAT AND BTC don't give a shit about USD or BTC, they get paid in the currency they want. And payment processors that handle BTC live on BTC, so suiciding by refusing 90% of coins is not going to happen. Wrong. You are comparing a digital transparent decentralized ledger (virtual and globally accessible in an instant) to physical analogies of perfume and dates printed on piece of paper? come on you can't compare the two as if they are equal ways to black list a currency from usage. You can clearly see where bitcoins come from and go to ON THE BLOCK CHAIN with the touch of a button and some software for parsing the block chain . <------ EFFICIENTYou can't clearly see your examples globally and instantly for blacklisting. <-----not EFFICIENT^ Nor can you easily trace the exact/full history of each physical fiat bill efficiently. 90%? Where did you come up with that number? You don't know the exact mechanism for black listing to be put into place at some future date. There are probably 50 shades of black listing that will probably spring up at some point depending upon each government/regulatory department's discretion. No, not wrong. Comparing it to fiat is just fine. You're using an idea, term and criteria that was built with no knowledge of how things could be in the future. The point is, *you* are using a term used for criteria on previous kind money and *you* are applying it to Bitcoin. *You* are basing your perspective on dated concept that hold no value here. And you. The 90% come from you. Even in the case 90% of merchants, and thats magnitude higher than it could happen in the worse case scenario. Then those going through that system would just collapse. Payments processor pays merchants in the currency they want, if they stop accepting any non clean 0x coins, the BTC portion of their dealings would just die. You're suggesting a problem based on fungibility when there is actually... None. Is there a problem with spending X vs Y bitcoin? No. Will there be one? No. So what i been saying in the few posts, if that wasn't clear enough, is that your whole perspective, your whole argument is based on a fallacy. 1. Fungibility is a concept used on money previous to bit coin - yes 2. Fungibility of fiat is different from bitcoin. Fiat fungibility is decreed by law (at least in the U.S.) bit coin fungibility is decreed by no CENTRAL authority/business/company. So the topic of fungibility is up to the marketplace and any laws/regulations that are enforced upon said businesses. Fungibility of precious metals such as gold and silver has its own take on it in its respective market place much like bitcoin. Only thing with precious metals you can't black list certain atoms of silver or gold.  You can't tell where a paper dollar has been by looking at it. You can't tell its completely transactional history by looking at it. Nor can you tell where an atom of silver or gold has been and its transactional history from the day it was dug out of the earth. Their respective histories are hard to identify. Bitcoins on the block chain are easily identified.3. You tried to equate all shops in the world stopping accepting bills with a particular date on them or perfume on them. THIS very comparison when used as an analogy of bitcoin blacklisting in reference to the concept of fungibility (every unit of account in a system is interchangeable and indistinguishable) is a flawed comparison as one is a physical form that cannot be efficiently executed (your example) and my example where a bitcoin business or government authority posts a digital list of addresses that are not to be accepted for commerce, which every person with an internet connection has access to, can be done efficiently. The two scenarios are worlds apart in terms of the ability to execute such tasks separately. 4. You say that fungibility holds "no value" here? How is it not a valuable topic of discussion or concern when a bitcoin user (BOB) buys bitcoins from someone buy does not realize those coins were stolen from an exchange (via a hack/heist) now bob is being told his coins are not accepted at particular merchants and in some cases his coins could be confiscated if he deposits it to an exchange and they refuse to allow him to have it because "coins are blacklisted" by a government authority who regulates said business. <---- You see no value in fungibility here at all? 5. The 90% did not come from me. Please post a quote/link. I never mentioned 90% to my knowledge. 6. Bitpay just stopped accepting "tainted" bitcoins from their own black list not even a month ago. LINK: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/7. Is there a problem? In my view yes there is. At the moment it isn't at the crux of everyone's attention like THA BLAWK SAIZE DEEHBATE but it will be if users start getting turned away from using/spending/exchanging their bitcoins because those coins have a history from a past theft/crime. My argument is based on fact. MTGOX refused to allow bitcoinica coins to go back to their depositors after bitcoinica was hacked. BTC-e disallowed withdraw/exchange of the coins from the evolution marketplace theft. Bitpay is black listing certain bitcoins and rejecting customers. Fallacy? No.... fact! Get it straight. As I said, right now the issue of fungibility is not a hot topic like other topics but it is a huge issue for users that want to have a currency that is fungible and allows them to have financial privacy. At some point I see the topic of bitcoin fungibility being in the bitcoin headlines more and more as time goes on. Time will tell if I am right. You have not referenced any links/quotes/examples that prove my argument is flawed. You still do not understand one word of what i said. You don't even understand the 90% bits. You say its a problem, its only a problem if nearly all do it. Hence 90%. I'll simplify. If 5% of the volume from sellers and exchanges decide to block any non clean BTC coins, what does happen? That business will be brought to the rest of 95%. If 40% of the volume from sellers and exchanges decide to block any non clean BTC coins, what does happen? That business will be brought to the rest of 60% And thats goes on and on, until about 90%. If that didn't explain clearly enough, i'll explain that too; As long as people can go somewhere and get full value with their coins, the other portion that does not value those coins at the exchange rate will just be walked around. Its not a complicated concept. TLDR: Fungibility is not a concept relevant to BTC. Conclusion: Everything you say is based on a Fallacy. Keep telling yourself that. Just because you say something does not make it true. Let's agree to disagree. |
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I wonder who has been cashing out. This sell pressure seemed way higher than daily emission. Some of it was shorting sure, but that doesnt amount to full number of coins in the dumps we saw.
If true, wonder what the rationale was.
During downtrends it has always been like this. Could just be traders willing to buy back lower (also, we had a few big shorters). Miners cashing out, but due to lower buying pressure we went down more. Could also be that miners that previously held their coins exhibited signs of reverse FOMO (missing out on buy walls :-P). Then there is also market manipulation, which can easily be observed by the stacking of asks someone is doing. ArticMine's reasoning makes sense as well. I don't think it was someone big cashing out, just a collective of all reasons described that did the trick. It should also be noted that alts are getting slaughtered in general. All top 20 alts went down significantly and the main reason of this was the soar of bitcoin's price. So it could very well be that we are just correlating with that. usually you expect this to continue. I think it will in the near term to medium term. Then what happens, BTC falls and alts rally and the cycle repeats until at some point prices are in the clouds...bubble pops, cycle repeats with bear market. |
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I cannot say much at this time because I don't want to give signal as to what my "wealth management empire" is doing. Everything I have said concerning the principles is fully in force, of course  translation: "we are accumulating"  You can't be sure. It could be translated differently: "We are not buying a single Monero until the price is 0.001. Everything I have said concerning the principles is fully in force, of course, so after that we'll continue accumulating as much as we could " No one can ever be sure unless they reveal their true actions. But my haunch says I am right. This is a critical region. Here and a bit lower (maybe 0.001275)... then I see a rebound. |
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18 days, my withdrawals are still stucked and nobody from support has contacted me to provide an explanation.
Bitjohn and mullick who intervened in this thread are also ignoring me.
Call it FUD but IMHO they don't have the coins.
how many coins? |
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Fat Tay Choon went to the Mining Academy in Brazil, east of Satoshi's yurt, where Gavin was kidnapped by the CIA's goons and forced to pretend fucking an anonymous decentralized biscuit—better than all the fish in the Pacific Ocean—but also to defray leeches intelligently with ECDSA fighting qubits for 16.8 dree12, or Phinnaeus must fling toilets towards psy‐ops, without potato smoothies mixed with fried chicken wings from BitMunchies.com, urbanchickennj.com, and Popeye's Bitcoin wallet, which deleted Satoshi's premine ability to cheer very victoriously, none like Butterfly Labs better enabled, but also Pirate crashing AIR applications without the express use of interest-free scams, conspiring with fraudulent sockpuppets and PPTs and..., you troll-herding piece of Shiitake mushroom, go lick Goat's horns until Theymos admits to having a quite erotic fetish involving honey badgers wearing thongs composed of soggy burlap waffles dangling from cosmic linoleum-based iphones running quantum chips explodes spewing deadly acid! b!z screamed out "Light is bright like...like... stars." When Markjamrobin opens the isolated window, he sees three pigs together in bed. Kouye and myself laugh when chinese food falls the impact kills Obama Bin ladin whoever thinks he may be terrorist, is correct but hates the bitcoin logo. Earth has snakes. Currently, the other species have decimated to tiny groups called "marko solo" whatever time it all comes and ends? However, Bitcoin's acidity level dipped causing catastrophic double-spends!
Meanwhile, AntiOps was confused by the awkward change to his penis melting uncontrollably. Vanilla Ice perfume spritzed onto cheese and greasy slime covered with babies boiled in a smelly old heatsink. But it tasted like shit therefore it poisoned his blood although he did survive. Reproductive organisms attacked the internal testicle which caused terrible congestion somehow. Evolution then terminated the smelly old business thank the inability of AntiOps to lock Satoshi's thread. In a transactional forum there was a debate about hacking unprotected accounts, however the debate shortly ended.
Phinnaeus Gage, king pluto, duke of the people. Returned one of his loans that he fraudulently claimed without declaring intentionally. Although this was bullshit. Earth was hit by a meteor which cause catastrophic events which cause people to cause mass destruction by proxy voting it was documented recently on the news that oranges are disguised anti-gravity pockets which have giant bears attacked Zeus because bitcoin accidentally crashed to Mars which created spaceships and aliens who pretended being humans wearing hats on their toes.
Altcoin suck on apples and oranges too. Megacoin is the most shit sucker of apples and melons ever. Most people love to troll others. Evolution is a slow process which created forks. It is beneficial to wash your feet because it distributes bacteria and oil, notwithstanding the beneficial attributes which are how chocolate arouses some of the miners brains. Today was an abysmal event which caused many abnormal but not smart bitcoiners because many of them are cute animals who were insane because of excessive oreo consumption. One watermelon is not love how people try me explotation Maybe Heisenberg Breaking bad control guy director or masturbation my time vampire drinks urine not lemon tek and water supernatural.
LEALANA is fat looking because pizza is sour with pickles which are sexy and never rot. So many people eat pizza it's unbelievable. The news said that pizza is bought mainly with anchovies which results in big wet weather which had massive gusts of wind with pouring milk down on everyones throat because it feels great! Although honey is very sweet taste it makes when it is served hot it melts softly but slowly.
The universe is populated with many planets which were destroyed by pirateat40. Cyborgs then warped to the zoo and ate mushroom with a aerospace technician. Bitcoin has used a lot resources from peoples although people smell like melons.
Ipods suck. Androids rule. Altcoins also suck peanuts. Bitcoin is the greatest idea that has ever been created by man although litecoin sucks? Once upon a time Gandalf went to wal-mart to dry her hair. Minecraft is the best game in universe because chickens cluck. 231134421 is one crazy big ass monkey. What is with people posting replies still. Terraria is a crazy game which requires extreme concentration. This can result in health cubes; Parentheses are a pain in the brain. This noodle is disgusting. Although spaceships cry waterfalls they are magical little elves. Golden towns is very annoying and smell like bacon. Celebrities are awesome and smart. But, evolution taught us that butterflys are ugly.
Vitamin D is important to scam Taras and raise taxes which would cause the world to go crazy but not insane. Obama is the president now. Alot of gamers will illustrate sony that nintendo is leading the infiltration of Iran. Microsoft Windows was salivating pedophiles of the coastal farts. Yet the banana shrank. What was doge poo doing under the bridge with bridge cleaner? He was just he's aren't because something something different like seems incorrect, because we fucked. Yet prunes prunes are very bad lad's yet unknown to fuckers SWEARING. Banana monkey is not virgin-horse. Corn.
This disappoints satan more than satoshi because he ate hydrochloric pools and he fucked whores who are sick shemales shemales shemales BANGCOCK! God smited non-believers with dicks on a stick. They shat together sitting upside-down flicking birdies. Baezl'bub slept with Hitler inside a bomb ticking furiously and hodling. That was awesome. Bitmit made belt so that walruses can shit on his dick and eat mushroom full of wonderful shit, he HODL'd BTCs and Dogecoin with a succubus sperm from first blowjob stories.
Nefarious words spoken shit at bitcointalk and destroyed uranus with a big-ass Spaceship mouth that eats goats flying shuttle that revolves expressly and quietly to hell. Gamma flux destroyed Litecoin with a barracks producing Atreides shit and Kadafi. Same Binladen puppet goxed clients sucking lollipops shaped like mixed frapuccino lids. Goku start this fight prematurely in Odessa Klondike's yard. Winter is not shitty. Gooches. Seven. Humanity sold pubes to Zeus. Nevertheless, Cinnamon was crying. Millennium breakdown caused diversification methheads cardinally. Hyper-inflation, epidemics with marshmallows made by government chodes and yeah. The End. No. Yes. Lies. Stop. Can. Do aliens have any bitcoins? No. Instead, PPC acts quickly like FTL shit, riffraff toys.
Miracles happen like cannibals spitting sinew and elephants which innocent love and shit has never fucked up! Dank has killed bysexuals... wait, when did Karpeles said/say McDonald's sucks? Colonel Tom sex-machine The 3.14159265358th must fook anything that goes into a section. Beaware of spellcheckers. Fantômas portuguese are sobriquet of Fernão who called them Coads-nigs! They say we are azoth, biblical tittynopes who can't mine the janiceps'. He biblically took Rosenzweig and ended this game. And then wanked, wanked clitoris next door. This was done. Moreover, crack was rapidly dephosphorylated due to complications anhidrotically, metaphorically whores go mooooooooo and ahhhhhhhhhhhhh while jon snow watch has ended this thread for good.
Not... Actually, maybe futuristically, Vod (MIA) sailing CASASCIUS up Padma Lakshmi's waxed butt and... Nevermind, but acknowledging that Gavin held security. This marks, categorically, that will create scientific controvertist of global heliolatry problems indistinguishably noticeable filipino heritage, unbeknownst to Slenderman XT phenomena. GLEB sucked smoothie's brains using juicy zombies, dicks, Popsicles, and alien vaginas to rotten flesh of Vod. Meanwhile, giant marsupials are having suicidal sex appeal for four tentacles, watching child whoopee. Therefore, vegetables are unpretentiously super[...]docious. Fruits are rotten potatoes, avouchment vouched x10 malware because aliens kidnapped JarJar, mercilessly LeFodorliar and Gleb Gamow lived days along seashore, Theymos abused his Authoritah by forcing a purple pill To Fly! Serendipitously, awsome! Then I started UFOing on their ass, savagely. But, it is impeccable to realize I farted psychedelic asparagus smoothies. However, Mexico is shit and... Rephrase that, corporations syria declared terrorists irreproachable because malevolence misappropriates monetary suffrage suggesting termination.
Meanwhile, yogurt spill has begun to fall onto houses and cars, hawkishly attempting to grab two crayons, inserting phallic Popsicles® into Theymos' abysm until... POOP! The excruciating pain took aeons to appreciate plethoric folliculitis silvestris poop generator. Why nidificate the indigenous spirit called "erection"? Prepossessingly, pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis a discomfortable endoplasmic tumescent pineapple tree branch rectally QuickSeller escrow. Involution, presumptuously titin pop up inconsiderately - Tuesday - when pokemon (Pokémon)'s Pikachu flashbacked borders dementia caused horrendous pain inside Agumon's PocketPussy™.
Daft Punk punked Dank with pussy heavy hookah shot whilst levitating abroad oceans blue that fadedly waved the unseen quote yet cited. Unjust superexcrescences excuses me because of Neotox produced such force by Poseidon's Trident of Taured. Now, albeit-albeit DARKCOIN-SCAMCOIN but tried to interlock coins out of your anal cavity filled lordly exponentially with bold pumpkins wiggling back to school days yesterday morning. Onomatopoeias ate language. Rigveda inside coupons collectively jumped over the "Core Mission". Pussies annihilate doge.
Pythons and anacondas don't squirt unless you got into buns coin phlegm on their tongues. Why did GLEB touch my vault extravagantly? I galumphed after midnight parade on my horse galloping in reverse to realize "holey-moley". Forgotten equines maybe because MONERO promotions failed for several days made before ends of christmas so that it won't morbidly end happily at all. Overlord espials all within the safehouse CRACK and maths are increasingly hard to ejaculate onto pomegranates with penises flying about. Suddenly, Nikko realised, "SHIT! ...Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, AGAIN!"
We shall never, NEVER go back beepbopping again. Then afterwards, Zelda found prophylactics transforming Macarena calisthenics to defeat her Herculean strenght - strength mispelled porpoisely - with Who (Doctor) movie scaring the fuck out of Casper. Time Lord fag get net work for Nicholas Tesla who's balls bounce before he collapsed after scratch the boobs of Vod. Vod never realized that was something amiss with quikseller of bitcointalk site escrow because he penetrated to the secret vault of stat and doubled the the bitcoins of the prison where Nakamoto lives imprisoned sans serif comics. Polymorphism, exhibitionism? No! NO! Exterminate! what the hell is happaning? Why did Satoshi die? It was because he farted on Lady "Gaga" Godiva.
Junior Samples make a wonder filled with excitement: Call Saul (BR549). Breaking Bad epitomizes the entirety of the methamphetamine movement. Alexithymia is putrid like smelly whit of publicity stunt whoopie such fail in mining field lockers that hentai sites gangbang with Hatsune Miku tentacles. The feelings I encountered when I meet the president, Millard Homomorphicity IV, I eyed him quizzically. Once Upon a Midnight afternoon when Gonzalez unwillingly took the rulebook down to Alabama and shat shit on the NASCAR while ca333 aka Bubba Kaninski filmed awesome rims.
Smoothie once lethargically stroked Phinnaeus Gage Vod where buffalo barrage
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I cannot say much at this time because I don't want to give signal as to what my "wealth management empire" is doing. Everything I have said concerning the principles is fully in force, of course translation: "we are accumulating" |
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If the time comes that certain coins are considered permanently clean and others permanently dirty in a future regulated world system,
the community as a whole should purposefully contaminate all clean coins found on the blockchain.
And what incentive does anyone have in doing that? Should we use the Bitcoin Honor System(TM) and hope people are willing to devalue their clean money? I have a better idea. Fungibility. I see a pattern happening here: 1. Issues raised with Bitcoin's fungibility get brought to light 2. Supporters of bitcoin's "fungibility" propose solution X 3. Those who want to see reality for what it is go on to debunk solution X given it is a patch to the system and not an actualy addition to bitcoin's protocol which attempts to fix bitcoin's fungibility issues in a ROUND-ABOUT-WAY. 4. repeat step 2 for solution X+1 until X+n is reached 5. agree to disagree There are so many supposed solutions to fixing bitcoin's fungibility problem but they don't hit the issue head on. It is always some sort of of chain (outside of bitocin protocol) PATCH which does not fix anything deterministically 100%. Fungibility isint a problem in the first place. Its not because a dead man said it need to be fungible than the principle still hold true. I very much doubt he could foresee hundreds of years in the future that money would become digital and ethereal. Now we're in the era of Security. So in the future if you took your bitcoins to all bitcoin merchants to spend them or exchange them and you are denied doing so because of your coins being tainted that's not a problem? I would see it as a problem. Most merchants that accept online transactions, FIAT AND BTC don't give a shit about USD or BTC, they get paid in the currency they want. And payment processors that handle BTC live on BTC, so suiciding by refusing 90% of coins is not going to happen. Wrong. You are comparing a digital transparent decentralized ledger (virtual and globally accessible in an instant) to physical analogies of perfume and dates printed on piece of paper? come on you can't compare the two as if they are equal ways to black list a currency from usage. You can clearly see where bitcoins come from and go to ON THE BLOCK CHAIN with the touch of a button and some software for parsing the block chain . <------ EFFICIENTYou can't clearly see your examples globally and instantly for blacklisting. <-----not EFFICIENT^ Nor can you easily trace the exact/full history of each physical fiat bill efficiently. 90%? Where did you come up with that number? You don't know the exact mechanism for black listing to be put into place at some future date. There are probably 50 shades of black listing that will probably spring up at some point depending upon each government/regulatory department's discretion. No, not wrong. Comparing it to fiat is just fine. You're using an idea, term and criteria that was built with no knowledge of how things could be in the future. The point is, *you* are using a term used for criteria on previous kind money and *you* are applying it to Bitcoin. *You* are basing your perspective on dated concept that hold no value here. And you. The 90% come from you. Even in the case 90% of merchants, and thats magnitude higher than it could happen in the worse case scenario. Then those going through that system would just collapse. Payments processor pays merchants in the currency they want, if they stop accepting any non clean 0x coins, the BTC portion of their dealings would just die. You're suggesting a problem based on fungibility when there is actually... None. Is there a problem with spending X vs Y bitcoin? No. Will there be one? No. So what i been saying in the few posts, if that wasn't clear enough, is that your whole perspective, your whole argument is based on a fallacy. 1. Fungibility is a concept used on money previous to bit coin - yes 2. Fungibility of fiat is different from bitcoin. Fiat fungibility is decreed by law (at least in the U.S.) bit coin fungibility is decreed by no CENTRAL authority/business/company. So the topic of fungibility is up to the marketplace and any laws/regulations that are enforced upon said businesses. Fungibility of precious metals such as gold and silver has its own take on it in its respective market place much like bitcoin. Only thing with precious metals you can't black list certain atoms of silver or gold. You can't tell where a paper dollar has been by looking at it. You can't tell its completely transactional history by looking at it. Nor can you tell where an atom of silver or gold has been and its transactional history from the day it was dug out of the earth. Their respective histories are hard to identify. Bitcoins on the block chain are easily identified.3. You tried to equate all shops in the world stopping accepting bills with a particular date on them or perfume on them. THIS very comparison when used as an analogy of bitcoin blacklisting in reference to the concept of fungibility (every unit of account in a system is interchangeable and indistinguishable) is a flawed comparison as one is a physical form that cannot be efficiently executed (your example) and my example where a bitcoin business or government authority posts a digital list of addresses that are not to be accepted for commerce, which every person with an internet connection has access to, can be done efficiently. The two scenarios are worlds apart in terms of the ability to execute such tasks separately. 4. You say that fungibility holds "no value" here? How is it not a valuable topic of discussion or concern when a bitcoin user (BOB) buys bitcoins from someone buy does not realize those coins were stolen from an exchange (via a hack/heist) now bob is being told his coins are not accepted at particular merchants and in some cases his coins could be confiscated if he deposits it to an exchange and they refuse to allow him to have it because "coins are blacklisted" by a government authority who regulates said business. <---- You see no value in fungibility here at all? 5. The 90% did not come from me. Please post a quote/link. I never mentioned 90% to my knowledge. 6. Bitpay just stopped accepting "tainted" bitcoins from their own black list not even a month ago. LINK: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/7. Is there a problem? In my view yes there is. At the moment it isn't at the crux of everyone's attention like THA BLAWK SAIZE DEEHBATE but it will be if users start getting turned away from using/spending/exchanging their bitcoins because those coins have a history from a past theft/crime. My argument is based on fact. MTGOX refused to allow bitcoinica coins to go back to their depositors after bitcoinica was hacked. BTC-e disallowed withdraw/exchange of the coins from the evolution marketplace theft. Bitpay is black listing certain bitcoins and rejecting customers. Fallacy? No.... fact! Get it straight. As I said, right now the issue of fungibility is not a hot topic like other topics but it is a huge issue for users that want to have a currency that is fungible and allows them to have financial privacy. At some point I see the topic of bitcoin fungibility being in the bitcoin headlines more and more as time goes on. Time will tell if I am right. You have not referenced any links/quotes/examples that prove my argument is flawed. |
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What will the price be when MMM comes into Monero?
MMM? That russian ponzi? Why would it come here? maybe he meant WMM Why monero matters |
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I think that the price is simply showing that it is more pegged to the USD than BTC.
It has fluctuated around 35 to 40 cents for months now. I'll be initiating an insider buy in the coming weeks of anywhere from 10 to 20 whole Monero. I don't expect it will move the price much, but I'll let you know when I do.
20 Monero is only $8. Remember when bitcoin was only $0.40? That $8 would have been 20 BTC today which is over $5000. |
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Bitcoin can and will violate anything it damn well pleases. That's a privilege you get when you're a genius who rewrites all the rules (including but not limited to the very meaning of the principle of fungibility) with a brilliant invention.
exactly how is the principal of fungibility rewritten by the creation of bitcoin? Please be clear and specific with your argument. |
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If the time comes that certain coins are considered permanently clean and others permanently dirty in a future regulated world system,
the community as a whole should purposefully contaminate all clean coins found on the blockchain.
And what incentive does anyone have in doing that? Should we use the Bitcoin Honor System(TM) and hope people are willing to devalue their clean money? I have a better idea. Fungibility. I see a pattern happening here: 1. Issues raised with Bitcoin's fungibility get brought to light 2. Supporters of bitcoin's "fungibility" propose solution X 3. Those who want to see reality for what it is go on to debunk solution X given it is a patch to the system and not an actualy addition to bitcoin's protocol which attempts to fix bitcoin's fungibility issues in a ROUND-ABOUT-WAY. 4. repeat step 2 for solution X+1 until X+n is reached 5. agree to disagree There are so many supposed solutions to fixing bitcoin's fungibility problem but they don't hit the issue head on. It is always some sort of of chain (outside of bitocin protocol) PATCH which does not fix anything deterministically 100%. Fungibility isint a problem in the first place. Its not because a dead man said it need to be fungible than the principle still hold true. I very much doubt he could foresee hundreds of years in the future that money would become digital and ethereal. Now we're in the era of Security. So in the future if you took your bitcoins to all bitcoin merchants to spend them or exchange them and you are denied doing so because of your coins being tainted that's not a problem? I would see it as a problem. Most merchants that accept online transactions, FIAT AND BTC don't give a shit about USD or BTC, they get paid in the currency they want. And payment processors that handle BTC live on BTC, so suiciding by refusing 90% of coins is not going to happen. Wrong. You are comparing a digital transparent decentralized ledger (virtual and globally accessible in an instant) to physical analogies of perfume and dates printed on piece of paper? come on you can't compare the two as if they are equal ways to black list a currency from usage. You can clearly see where bitcoins come from and go to ON THE BLOCK CHAIN with the touch of a button and some software for parsing the block chain . <------ EFFICIENTYou can't clearly see your examples globally and instantly for blacklisting. <-----not EFFICIENT^ Nor can you easily trace the exact/full history of each physical fiat bill efficiently. 90%? Where did you come up with that number? You don't know the exact mechanism for black listing to be put into place at some future date. There are probably 50 shades of black listing that will probably spring up at some point depending upon each government/regulatory department's discretion. |
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