From the May 2013 report:
The total losses of the security breach are
1454 BTC
225,263 TRC
23,400 LTC
That's a lot of BTC and LTC that's going to get confiscated!
People should have gotten out then. They said at the time it would take 9 to 12 months to recover that, and then they cut their fees. They should have assessed the situation right then, instead they tried to go fractional and didn't make it, fucking over more people in the process. |
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Tupperware, amway, and herbalife are different because at least there is a product to sell somewhere in there.
And Herbalife is currently under investigation by the FTC, so it isn't even clear at the moment whether they are operating their business in a way that the U.S. government considers legal. Yea, I have no idea how legal it is, but it has a better chance of working than a pure pyramid/ponzi type system because at some point pills are exchanged for money. If you can find people that want pills, you can sell them. A bitcoin "game" where you put in bitcoins and get out more bitcoins, eventually you are going to run out of bitcoins. |
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Tupperware, amway, and herbalife are different because at least there is a product to sell somewhere in there.
It's impossible to guarantee everyone a profit because eventually (especially in bitcoin) you will run out of money.
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There are many ways to skin a cat, but (made up numbers for ease) spending 10 bitcoins (or enough money to buy 10 bitcoins) on a machine that will make 8 bitcoins will lead to the skinned cat called bankruptcy.
It's easy to validate any argument if we are allowed to make up the numbers. The point is; provided the company is actively mining, expanding that mine and selling 'IN STOCK' hardware while developing future products as the value of bitcoin goes through the roof then the outlook is very bright. I'm not saying this is a certainty and I know there are two sides to every non digital coin, but as I said, progress and keeping afloat is what really matters right now. those are just numbers to illustrate the point. If bitcoins are worth $1 each or 1,000,000 each, x bitcoins are always better than y bitcoins if x>y. As soon as people start to figure that out, this crazy mining race will slow down to a reasonable pace and people will be able to make money mining. If anyone should know that, it would be "owners" of a company that sells miners. |
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Yes, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Progress and simply keeping afloat is what really matters here because of the enormous potential. kslaughter's managerial skills may be in question but his ability and willingness to react to the ebb and flow may prove to be his greatest asset. Time will tell.
There are many ways to skin a cat, but (made up numbers for ease) spending 10 bitcoins (or enough money to buy 10 bitcoins) on a machine that will make 8 bitcoins will lead to the skinned cat called bankruptcy. |
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BItcoins flowing into your mining address wasn't the main purpose. Having your own chips and selling them was!
Wrong, it's 50% of the main purpose, AMC the mining arm, and VMC the hardware arm united as ActiveMining. Annnd, complaining about a mining company mining makes you seem, what's the phrase I'm looking for here... dumb as a rock. The point should be to make bitcoins. The point was to mine using your own miners. A company that sells miners should know how bad of investment it has traditionally been to make bitcoins using purchased miners. This plan will get more coins into the mining address, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. |
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Out of curiosity, how did you pay?
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How are things coming along with the pre-ordered products?
We are getting ready to start issuing refunds again. We are also using our new 600 GH/s board as we get them in full production to solve our refund problem. Ouch... we have a refund problem that can be solved with the coins we get from the running boards? Sounds like the funds are pretty much gone already. I didnt think its that bad yet. As you know we have two corporation here AMC and VMC, VMC lost some coins it had in MtGox from Pre-Orders, this caused VMC to have a minor cash crunch for refunds the last few weeks. AMC has enough coins to loan VMC to provide for refunds; however, I prefer to have VMC pay the refunds from its profits on running AMC mining farm, building machines for AMC, and from VMC sales of miners. VMC is still in a cash positive state and will start refunding Pre-Orders next week again. AMC/VMC has enough cash to cover over 6X the amount of our current Pre-Orders. Also, VMC is getting ready to start selling in stock bitcoin mining cards. Is this correct? Instead of giving dividends ken will pay refunds? Dividends come from profits, you don't have profits while you owe customers miners. |
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How are things coming along with the pre-ordered products?
We are getting ready to start issuing refunds again. We are also using our new 600 GH/s board as we get them in full production to solve our refund problem. Ouch... we have a refund problem that can be solved with the coins we get from the running boards? Sounds like the funds are pretty much gone already. I didnt think its that bad yet. As you know we have two corporation here AMC and VMC, VMC lost some coins it had in MtGox from Pre-Orders, this caused VMC to have a minor cash crunch for refunds the last few weeks. AMC has enough coins to loan VMC to provide for refunds; however, I prefer to have VMC pay the refunds from its profits on running AMC mining farm, building machines for AMC, and from VMC sales of miners. VMC is still in a cash positive state and will start refunding Pre-Orders next week again. AMC/VMC has enough cash to cover over 6X the amount of our current Pre-Orders. Also, VMC is getting ready to start selling in stock bitcoin mining cards. When was the last time you got cash out of Gox? How can that have caused a cash crunch when you have claimed that there was no USD lost there? It is very simple, when VMC got low on cash for refunds, they would have transferred bitcoins from MtGox to Coinbase and sold them. However, when the coins were lost at MtGox it was kinda hard to transfer them to Coinbase to sinell. See how that works, very simple. If you were selling them on Coinbase, why on earth were they on Gox instead of your own wallet or coinbase? Again very simple, we were using MtGox to process our bitcoin transactions from Pre-Orders. That explains why they got into Gox, but not why they were sitting there. |
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How are things coming along with the pre-ordered products?
We are getting ready to start issuing refunds again. We are also using our new 600 GH/s board as we get them in full production to solve our refund problem. Ouch... we have a refund problem that can be solved with the coins we get from the running boards? Sounds like the funds are pretty much gone already. I didnt think its that bad yet. As you know we have two corporation here AMC and VMC, VMC lost some coins it had in MtGox from Pre-Orders, this caused VMC to have a minor cash crunch for refunds the last few weeks. AMC has enough coins to loan VMC to provide for refunds; however, I prefer to have VMC pay the refunds from its profits on running AMC mining farm, building machines for AMC, and from VMC sales of miners. VMC is still in a cash positive state and will start refunding Pre-Orders next week again. AMC/VMC has enough cash to cover over 6X the amount of our current Pre-Orders. Also, VMC is getting ready to start selling in stock bitcoin mining cards. When was the last time you got cash out of Gox? How can that have caused a cash crunch when you have claimed that there was no USD lost there? It is very simple, when VMC got low on cash for refunds, they would have transferred bitcoins from MtGox to Coinbase and sold them. However, when the coins were lost at MtGox it was kinda hard to transfer them to Coinbase to sell. See how that works, very simple. If you were selling them on Coinbase, why on earth were they on Gox instead of your own wallet or coinbase? |
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How are things coming along with the pre-ordered products?
We are getting ready to start issuing refunds again. We are also using our new 600 GH/s board as we get them in full production to solve our refund problem. Ouch... we have a refund problem that can be solved with the coins we get from the running boards? Sounds like the funds are pretty much gone already. I didnt think its that bad yet. As you know we have two corporation here AMC and VMC, VMC lost some coins it had in MtGox from Pre-Orders, this caused VMC to have a minor cash crunch for refunds the last few weeks. AMC has enough coins to loan VMC to provide for refunds; however, I prefer to have VMC pay the refunds from its profits on running AMC mining farm, building machines for AMC, and from VMC sales of miners. VMC is still in a cash positive state and will start refunding Pre-Orders next week again. AMC/VMC has enough cash to cover over 6X the amount of our current Pre-Orders. Also, VMC is getting ready to start selling in stock bitcoin mining cards. When was the last time you got cash out of Gox? How can that have caused a cash crunch when you have claimed that there was no USD lost there? |
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I apologize for "trolling" (I don't own any shares, so I'm a troll) but I have been watching the show and continue to be amazed by how people with so much money tied into this don't ask the obvious questions, so lets go.
Why are you "getting ready to start issuing refunds again?" Why did they stop? What is the issue? When is it going to be fixed?
Speaking of refunds, what is the plan for the people that ordered? Is everyone getting a refund, how much of this 100TH is being delivered to your paying customers?
I wonder why the mods of that thread don't care about the important question?
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You can't chnage the math, but you can change your bets. Using a combination of small bets and large bets cuts into the probability factor because although you're guaranteed to experience significant losing rolls, you might find that the low bets catch most of those, so to speak, whereas when you bet higher, you get wins. You'll get losses for both, but by mixing it up, you seem to increase the odds. I successfully made 40 dollars two days ago using this strategy, and what's significant is that I was playing for quite a while.
I basically use primarily small and medium bets and hope that sporadic big bets will make up for losses and propel me forward. And the big bets are not so big that you can't recover.
I forgot to mention the probability. My current thoughts are that a probability above 50 is the way to go, because, well, you're putting the odds in your favor. Of course the ratio of money lost to money won increases, but again, by mixing in big bets, you can hypothetically always make up for losses.
Just tested this out again and I have some things to add:
It seems one should also vary the probability, because this enables one to increase your profits without increasing your bet size. So it seems like you can gain a definite advantage over the machine, it's just that you need keep changing things, and the software doesn't make that a quick, streamlined process, so it would be pretty laborious.
That's going to work every time until the time it doesn't. You can make money on bets with a negative expected value by being lucky. there is no way to consistently be lucky. Even if the probability is above 50% the odds aren't in your favor because they aren't paying you the correct odds. |
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Do you think it's possible to consistently make a certain amount of money a day playing the dice?
No. there is no way to change the math. The more you play, the closer your results will be to what they should be, which is you losing 1, 2, or 3% of what you bet. |
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But the "profit" (seperate from "max profit per bet") goes down!
I was wrong before, I didn't realize there were different bankrolls, but it comes down to the same logic. The house edge is how much the hosue expects to win, so the higher the house edge, the higher the bankroll, so the higher the profit. It's easier to see this in litecoin mode, because the difference is much bigger there. More people invest in the 3% house edge game, so they will let you bet more in those games. The profit goes down for each bet because they are paying you less money. Put the chance at 50 and the wager at 100 so we can compare it to flipping a coin. If house edge was zero, heads you win 100, tails you lose 100. If the house edge is 1%, heads you win 98, tails you lose 100. If the house edge is 2%, heads you win 96, tails you lose 100. If the house edge is 3%, heads you win 94, tails you lose 100. |
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Can anyone explain the different house edges on dicenow.com? Seems like when one gives the house an advantage, the potential profit actually goes down, whereas the "max profit per bet" goes up. Not even sure what the difference is between the two, but I would think that in exchange for giving the house a greater edge, all types of profits would go up. I'm also having trouble putting these numbers in context, as both 1%, 2%, and 3% seem really friggin' small.  House edge is how much the house "should win" overall. the max profit per bet goes up because they want to offer you a bigger reward to take a worse bet. |
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I guess I'll post here because since I've joined the cool club of being accused of being Crumbs. Was just watching and laughing, but blaming the refund delays on a company that hasn't been paying out USD for months was too much for me to contain myself.
I don't really know how they are accepting that BS excuse, why they aren't freaking out that there were coins in GOX, or how they always manage to leave out that they need to send out millions of dollars worth of hashrate (a part of which will give them absolutely no return) before they do their fuzzy math. This is the best train wreck here since Pirate.
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Are people really going to buy blaming Gox for the delay in refund "checks?"
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I know i am going to get a lot of hate from saying this. I paid for my system on November the 24th and I have still being waiting for my system. I haven't given up on the company yet. I still believe they can give me my system that i have paid for. I understand that it is hard to get to the right amount of hash/s for the advertised amount. So for all the people that are asking for refunds and complaining. I recommend you become patient and just let VMC do it's thing. They aren't a bad company, all companies do this pre order stuff and make you wait ages, just give them time. Also for people that still have faith in this company. My order is said to be delivered on the 20th of march, so i am excited  P.S. i know i am going to get a lot of hate Just be aware that it is now the 6th of march and they have zero working chips to put into your system, good luck to you. |
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That's fairly convincing. But is there a mathematical reason why this is a terrible idea? Or is it just a reasonably risky idea?
I do like my puppy.
If you like it, just don't do it. Look at the news, it's not wise to send your bitcoins to third parties, and even less when they smell like ponzi. I will not be sending bitcoins. I will pay with dollars and receive bitcoins. Does it seem like a bad deal? They are paying. Whether you actually send them bitcoins or dollars is irrelevant. The point of mining is to get bitcoins, so you want bitcoins, right? So you can take that money, give it to them, and slowly get bitcoins over the course of a year, or take that money give it to someone else and get an amount of bitcoins right now. Which way will get more bitcoins for you? If you are worried about the exchanges, don't trust them for very long. Find one that isn't screwing anyone over right this second, get your bitcoins, and get them into your own wallet. |
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