Thank you for your reply and explanations so far.
Yes, you can set two parameters for each channel: base fee and fee rate (also known as PPM - pay-per-millionth). The fee formula looks like this:
base_fee + (forwarded_amount * fee_rate/1000000)
When you route a payment, you receive some coins in one channel and you spend coins from your other channel. You don't charge someone twice for your service. The fee paid by the payer is calculated based on the fee settings of the channel which forwards the payment to the next node.
Thanks a lot for that, I think I got it now how fees are set. What I am still unclear is how the fee collection works, are you saying that if Alice pays to Bob over nodes X, Y and Z, X charges a fee to Alice and pays from that Y fees, who in turn pays Z fees? Like in: Alice - [X] - [Y] - [Z] - BobSo fees have to be X fee > Y fee > Z fee, otherwise somebody is going to make a loss? Or if I am for example X, would I calculate Y's fees and add it ontop of mine and charge the sum to Alice, like in calculating total cost of a specific route? Sorry for the stupid question, I just read https://medium.com/suredbits/lightning-101-lightning-network-fees-86abbbc17024 and I am none the wiser still.EDIT: Just found this one, and it says Alice pays the sum of all fees to X, X pays Y and Z fees to Y etc. I am not sure how well c-lightning's autopilot works. I believe that LND's autopilot opens channels mostly to large nodes. That's not really what you want if you want to maximize your routing earnings. Looking for good peers can take a lot of time, but it's kind of fun.
Yeah I started to figure that negotiating channels with peers is going to be the fun part, almost like negotiating peerings in the old internet days. I was interested in the autopilot to a) get a grip on how plugins work in c-lightning and b) to see what it would do in dry-run. But I am all game for the social fun part of establishing channels  What are some ballpark figures for like dirt-cheap but not free and what are some upper bounds before it becomes criminal price gouging (yeah I understand, the network just routes around expensive nodes, but you should get the idea what I try to ask for)?
That's a tough question. I wouldn't open a channel to someone who charges more than 100 PPM in most of their channels. That's something to start off from, thanks a lot. And for the base fee, free/0? Also I am wondering about tor vs. clear-net nodes, is it possible to "dual-host" a node on tor AND clear-net at the same time or do I have to stick with one or the other? |
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I am posting this reply here, it was Rath_'s reply to my post in the bitcoind, c-lightning and RTL on centos 7 (walktrough) thread and he rightly suggested to come here with my questions. If anybody has any reading pointers on how fees work in lightning, what good settings are etc.
There are no good settings. If you open a channel between two large nodes then you will probably not route any payments unless you set your fees to zero. You have to experiment with your fee settings. I opened a large channel to Bitfinex and a small one to Nicehash. Even though my fees in that channel (Bitfinex) were high (1 sat base fee; 95 ppm), I routed quite a few payments. The largest one was ~950k satoshi and I earned ~91.5 sat in routing fees just for that single transaction. After some time I had to lower my fees since no one wanted to send their payment through that channel. Are you familiar with the way the fees are calculated or do you need an explanation? No, to be honest I do not seem to understand the fee system fully yet. I have a solid understanding of how the fees work on-chain but not in lightning. From what I've seen there is a base fee and a percentage of the amount to be sent? Also, I would be interested what the settings of "urgent", "normal", "slow" etc. mean when setting up a new channel, I guess urgent translates to high fees, but I am not sure yet.
Honestly, I would not use RTL to open and close channels. I overpaid a few times because of it. Also, you can open multiple channels in a single transaction via a command line! This way you can save a ton on money on the transaction fees. Good point, I guess that's because RTL sets the on-chain fee for the funding transaction high enough to get into the next block at anytime and by doing it manually you can use 1-2sat/byte and just wait some time. Are people setting their fees on a per-channel basis or globally?
Most people set their fees on a per-channel basis. If you are running a small node then you will very likely change them often. There is a plugin which automatically adjusts the fees for each channel but I am not sure how well it works. Oh plugins, that's one open construction site I still have  Didn't really work out yet, there are a few I would like to use, like the sqlite3 duplication and ev. autopilot but I can't get them to run yet. But I understand the general idea is not to care about the defaults, but fine-tune each channel so that it starts routing payments. What are some ballpark figures for like dirt-cheap but not free and what are some upper bounds before it becomes criminal price gouging (yeah I understand, the network just routes around expensive nodes, but you should get the idea what I try to ask for)? By the way, are you interested in opening a dual-funded channel at some point? It is still an experimental feature but I have successfully opened this type of channel with two other bitcointalk members. Here's my node for reference. Also, you might find The Lightning Network FAQ useful. Most of the LN related discussion is held there. I am all in, just need some time to get more experience in operation of my node before I waste your time. I will happily get back to you by PM in the next days. I still need to finalize the setup in terms of DR plan / backup / resilience. I'll still need some assistance in creating this via rpc interface. Thanks for the advice to move my questions to here, which I did. I should have posted my questions here in the first place as you suggested, I only wanted to let mocacinno know how much his walkthrough helped me. |
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Thank you mocacinno for this excellent walk-through!
I used it to setup my own lightning node on Devuan (hating systemd and the Poettering fuckwit so much I went that extra mile) and it's supported by my VPS host.
What was impressing with the latest bitcoin core v22.0 is that synching from scratch took less than 24hrs on a pretty low-end VPS with spinning rust. Last time I synched a bitcoin node in 2014 (on much more low-end HW) it took me 2 weeks.
Overall a very exciting experience thanks to your HowTo, I greatly appreciate the time you have taken and I am very pleased with the results so far!
Now I have to go to find out how I set the fees (working with the defaults so far) and what reasonable fees are. I don't want to go full free (because what's free is not worth anything) but to set very moderate/low fees. If anybody has any reading pointers on how fees work in lightning, what good settings are etc., I would be happy to hear about that.
Also, I would be interested what the settings of "urgent", "normal", "slow" etc. mean when setting up a new channel, I guess urgent translates to high fees, but I am not sure yet.
Are people setting their fees on a per-channel basis or globally?
Again, thank you very much for the great HowTo, it gave me a great and easy start into the topic!
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Dear Lord, dear Chartbuddy, dear Elon and all the others mighty enough to move the BTC price with the blink of an eye:
Please make the price do something so that we can leave these pointless and exclusively dividing vaccination arguments behind us and get back to lovely SOMA TA with dragon drawings, rollercoaster memes, lengthy AI novels, lightning appraisal, ranch and sea property development progress reports and planning of the 1M party.
I would prefer an increase, but hell if it takes a nose dive to stop this hateful crap I'll be fine with it too.
Amen.Weeeeeh!
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google auth has issues if the phone breaks.
sms does not have the issues. So they use sms.
If you are locked out of your account due to a broken phone and have sms. Buy a new phone port the old number and you have sms working.
If this happens with google auth the new google auth does not work as it will not be synched.
Sms can be made secure more secure if crossed linked to an email and the email is crossed link to a password.
I am not a smart phone user so my question may be dumb, apologies then. But what keeps you from backing up your 2FA OTP key in a safe place and just restoring it on the new phone? I mean it's a pretty short character string that even can be handwritten on a post-it (pun intended). SMS ist just unsafe and dangerous for such sensitive things in todays world. [EDIT]: I just realized what I wrote above when I said "I am not a smart phone user", I actually meant "I am not a smartphone user". But since both apply equally well to me I'll stick with the first one  |
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Good Wonderful find, that is really hilarious timing. Literally have coffee on my screen now Oh the irony.. |
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Slightly off-topic, but if you are using an Azure VPS, you'd better check this: https://www.wiz.io/blog/secret-agent-exposes-azure-customers-to-unauthorized-code-executionTL;DR: Just send NO authentication headers and you are root on virtual Linux machines with OMI installed (they kindly install it for you in many to most cases). In the 90's we often joked that the first Microsoft product that won't suck will be a vacuum cleaner... (obviously this one just doesn't get old). |
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Just watched the German "Tagesschau" on one of two of their national channels (ARD). Almost spit my fine meal across the table and thought I'd quickly recap what was told: - The cryptocurrency (<- trigger warning) Bitcoin which is also favoured a lot by criminals has lost 30% yesterday, right in the moment when El Salvador started to use it as official payment method
- What caused Bitcoin to fall so tremendously? Answer from the stock exchange correspondent: Because the introduction was a massive failure, but also because this "experiment" calls regulators to arms who are afraid that this will be abused for criminal and illegal activity.
- El Salvador says it will attract investors and make international remittances easier but regulators say the risk this will facilitate money laundering is increasing
- The Bitcoin community applauded El Salvador frenetically first, but now (the Bitcoin fans) talk about an own goal.
For myself I take away two points: - The MSM (even those that think they are the good guys) are useless if not rightout means of propaganda for those in power.
- Bitcoin is taken very serious (that's why they attack it hard now), this tells me we're on the right way.
I see a lot of fear in the eyes of our opponents, this is a great sign, but IMO we should expect some drastic steps from them in the time to come. * psycodad heads back to The Lightning Network FAQ thread and continues with preparation for his own lightning node - fuck the central banksters. |
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Is it dead? (Or does it possibly just have a lil hangover from the El Salvador party last night?)
Whatever, just bought the dip, even so I actually wanted to sell some in the next days for wanted/needed thingies. Turned out what I really wanted most was more corn, other thingies (wordy man would call it 'funzies') have to wait a little longer.
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I am very relieved to report that I have now received all pending withdrawals after 19days. <snip>
..but I am ready to let it go biting my tongue with a put on smile and with a simple, short post here confirming that I received everything, if they actually process my DOGE withdrawal within the next 48 hrs.
I will uphold my part of the agreement that I offered as I am just truely relieved to have my coins back, therefor I'll just let it go and move on. Case closed for me. I would like to again thank you folks here for your supportive and reassuring words, it helped keeping me sane (kinda). Also the people in the chat box on bitvest.io seemed to me like a very friendly and cordial pack.
Nice to know that you got paid although a smaller amount of your investment you deserve to get the full amount of what you've invested that includes your winnings, I cannot imagine the amount but tipping the mod with that amount of Doge I figure it's a huge amount, I have this feeling after you received the full amount you are going to look for a new site to play, or will you still trust them after playing for years?
As said, no mud-throwing around from me, but I can still safely answer that I'll never deposit to bitvest.io again. I have never been a player myself, but I have learned that when people leave they wish the others good luck, therefor: Good luck and great wins to you all! |
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Seriously, decent? Are we talking about this unnamed exchange that people are complaining about all over the place? Yes that one. The only other decent exchange for original cryptos is Frei. But even if listed there you only get BTC pairing. Freiexchange IMO is not comparable to unnamed, there is not a single complaint about freiexchange yet, though there are dozens of credible reports about unnamed. |
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Any chance of a decent exchange for DUO? Or is she dead, Jim?
suggest unnamed.ex will do buy support if it happens I like both unnamed and tradeogre so either of those would be a big WIN. Seriously, decent? Are we talking about this unnamed exchange that people are complaining about all over the place? |
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Today I received another smaller part of my investment (the LTC part, in full), though my DOGE wd is still pending since 12th August, even so I have tipped (bribed) one of their mods with 658 DOGE of change to speed things up slightly. What they paid out in these last 18days is <30% of my total investment that I want to withdraw.
They have time until end of month to honor my still pending DOGE withdrawal request, I have made them aware of that via the tipped mod as I still have no means to communicate with the owners/people with the moneys directly.
This has brought major distress into my life and my marriage, but I am ready to let it go biting my tongue with a put on smile and with a simple, short post here confirming that I received everything, if they actually process my DOGE withdrawal within the next 48 hrs.
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@psycodad: Any updates with your withdrawal or a reply to your email/pm/anything related to your withdrawal issue?
No I haven't been able to withdraw since around my last post, not even dust amounts, it's now pretty exactly 2 weeks on the hour. It's emontionally very challenging and only the reassuring chat with one of their mods (Badger) kept me from going totally insane yet as the amount owed by bitvest.io is a substantial one to me. |
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It's now exactly 1 week since I am waiting for my withdrawal. My personal feelings start to shift from annoyance to fear of loss. Especially since I am trying to withdraw only a smaller part of my investment in bitvest.
My support ticket from August 14th is still unhandled and unreplied and I have a feeling like bitvest is simply not maintained anymore.
Op just login today but he did not address if the issue has been resolve I'm sure he will drop a line here if the issue has been resolve or not yet, so far only one issue from all the thousands that are playing but we cannot ignore one issue, I hope this issue has been resolve and psycodad just forgot to drop by here to update us, the community trust Bitvest, 777 and of course Lightlord even though he is busy lately. Thank you all for your concerns and your support. No, I haven't forgotten to report back that I got my coins - I didn't get them yet even so I am checking if I am able to withdraw once or twice each day. Based on suggestions from here and additionally to messages in chat and a pending support ticket I also PM'd lightlord yesterday, though I didn't hear back and my problems are still unresolved (meanwhile I also have troubles withdrawing LTC). I still hope things resolve magically from one moment to the other but my confidence is dwindling. |
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Airplane tickets
Deflation of 6.40%
This is not really a fair one, considering that even econo seats back then had enough leg room and other perks to feel almost first class. Oh the good old times when you were actually a "passenger in a seat" and not just SLF (self loading freight) or SLC (self loading cattle) stacked up like Tetris blocks in a tiny alumunium tube which reminds more of some agoraphobia confrontation training than comfortable travelling. |
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It's now exactly 1 week since I am waiting for my withdrawal. My personal feelings start to shift from annoyance to fear of loss. Especially since I am trying to withdraw only a smaller part of my investment in bitvest.
My support ticket from August 14th is still unhandled and unreplied and I have a feeling like bitvest is simply not maintained anymore.
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Just want to add that I made a significant recent withdrawal, let's just say it was well over what I normally do. Price of BTC has been great and also it's been a while since I made a withdraw, plus my campaign earnings go directly to my Bitvest account too. It didn't go through hot wallet, manual withdraw. But PM'd admin and I got it almost immediately after that. Seems to have fixed the delays then? But many people don't like when they want withdraw their money, they must contact admin first to get their withdrawal which will consume more time for them. We want quick and fast withdraw so we can satisfied later once the money came to our wallet. Since 12th August I try to withdraw some DOGE, since 14th August I have a ticket pending asking for the DOGE wallet to be refilled. Since yesterday I try to leech what I can from the hot wallet, but meanwhile I don't even get measly 500 DOGE out - that thing is totally dry. (In all fairness, I should also mention that I could make a substantial LTC withdraw without problems) Since the bitvest folks enjoy an excellent reputation around here, I am not worried yet, but it definitely starts to be annoying and as investor I don't think this modus operandi is really appealing to new players. I at least hope to get my DOGE out before price starts to dump again. |
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<snip>
wife has a kindle. it works but its part of the amazon ecosystem that im trying to distance myself from. you know for sure your kindle is reporting back everything you do with it, the Nook, not so much. at least from what ive read on the matter. ive also read (not confirmed it myself) that amazon can change the text of your ebooks on the kindle and also remove them arbitrarily. this was a while ago, maybe its true maybe not.
<snip>
Actually they did that already in 2009, ironically they deleted George Orwells 1984 and Animal Farm from users devices. Also in some instances it was reported that Harry Potter magically disappeared from people's devices: https://gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703I didn't find any exact information on what telemetry information the kindle collects and reports back to device-metrics-us.amazon.com but I am pretty confident they know everything about your reading habits. |
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