Pretty sure they're doing refunds despite the shady notification that pre-order funds are non-refundable. I've also seen posts from BFL reps suggesting a conditional refund policy. Something like, "we'll honor refunds if we don't ship by 1/31/2013" or some such.
All that said, I think they've been completely dishonest about this entire thing. They NEVER should have opened their pre-orders so early in the year, and they definitely never should have promised a date they couldn't deliver. People committed funds months ago based on those promises, and they have a right to expect those promises to be honored. The typical BFLites will dismissively say "well anyone that accepted their release date doesn't know BFL", but that doesn't wash.
Yes BFL deserves a scammer tag. Repeatedly lying when money has changed hands is scamming, period. Even if they do eventually ship, BFL customers will have been cheated of their money from the time they ordered to the time they receive products, during which time the products they bought will have dropped in value substantially due to greatly increased competition.
They never lied. They said that they expect shipments to be made late October, but no guaranteed shipments until January 1st. Then they changed it to expecting shipments early November, then early December. Always, these were NOT guaranteed ship dates. The only guaranteed date is January 1st. |
|
|
|
Interesting theories and thoughts Angelus, thanks for sharing.  |
|
|
|
I'd like to add MinecraftCC's project, Mine For Bitcoins (AKA The Minecraft Faucet), to the list. It currently (and for the forseeable future) pays 10 satoshis per block modified in the world, but I hope to increase that payout even further with incoming donations. http://www.minecraftcc.com/index.php?threads/information-about-getting-paid-to-mine.4613/Server IP: play.minecraftcc.com If you'd like to donate to the faucet, please sent any amount to 13m8dAb16KqWv7v9oEsr97mYMXbynR6CoD. I am funding this out of my own pocket so far, but only have so much I can afford to give away on a monthly basis. It really is a great way to introduce new people to Bitcoin. I've had more than two dozen players sign on to getting paid in Bitcoin now, (and more adding on every day), most of whom have never used Bitcoins before. Some people give out casascius coins to tell people about Bitcoin, which is great, but you can reach so many more people by putting that 1 BTC towards a project like this. You would be better if you make your game pay to play on a daily basis, where currency accepted are Bitcoins or any other stable coin. By making it pay to play, you'll have people playing the game more time, in order to compensate for invested coins. For those not having any coins now, it would be nice incentive to start getting some - for real cash, using other free bitcoin websites or even by mining them! I disagree. I already have a large userbase, and requiring that they (most of whom have never used Bitcoin) pay Bitcoin on a daily basis would ensure expedited decimation of said userbase. They are not the sort of crowd to have a lot of extra money on hand. On the upside, average server population seems to have very nearly doubled since introducing this promotion, and I have several dozen people now using Bitcoin who would not have otherwise used it. I'd call that a success! |
|
|
|
|
I've got to ask, if you're selling 18 GPU's + other misc hardware, that should bring in at least $1500... why not buy an ASIC and keep the tradition going?
|
|
|
|
True unemployment in the US is around 50% (153 million working people out of 306 million people in the US). A large part of that is children and stay-at-home moms, sure, but I'm also certain a significant number of those people would like to work if they could. Instead, they're stuck in a never-ending loop of collecting welfare to survive instead of working a low-paying job and gaining experience to better themselves. All at the taxpayer's expense. Yay. You're seriously saying a significant number of children (including young children) want to work? Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I'll make it more clear. - The number of unemployed people in the US is about 50% of the population. - Many of those who make up that 50% are children and stay-at-home-moms (and retired persons as well). - A significant number of the REMAINDER of that 50% would like to work if they could. Getting rid of the minimum wage laws would allow those people (the remainder of the 50%) to work. |
|
|
|
Poor PR = less customers.
Or that's what the world would have you believe, anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Thank you, it is still going very well. Lots of people asking questions about Bitcoins, lots of people wanting to acquire more of them, increased activity on the server, etc.
I hadn't really thought about implementing some sort of mining pool along with this, but it is doubtful I will. With ASICs right around the corner, GPU mining is about to become very useless. And my guess is, anyone who understands Bitcoin enough to drop $150+ on ASIC equipment wouldn't really want to use that income towards server stuff anyway.
|
|
|
|
Selling 1x32G 1x72G Order #642, DHL + INT shipping.
Mining profits were supposed to pay for Feb wedding. Not gonna happen for me now.
that was a rather stupid move to "bank on"... take it to the for sale forum derp derp I didn't bank on it. I have plenty of money, but it's nice to pay for something with the profits of a fantastical machine. Derp derp. What price are you looking to get out of it? |
|
|
|
|
Minimum wage laws are a perfect example of liberalism gone wrong. They only look at the surface of the problem (low wages) and try to fix it without considering the consequences of such laws. Sure, people don't get paid less than $5.XX an hour now, but all of those jobs that COULD have been in place without minimum wage laws are simply lost. Higher unemployment is a result. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a low paying job than no job at all. I could work hard, better myself, and move my way up the ladder or have enough experience to move on to a better job with a different company.
True unemployment in the US is around 50% (153 million working people out of 306 million people in the US). A large part of that is children and stay-at-home moms, sure, but I'm also certain a significant number of those people would like to work if they could. Instead, they're stuck in a never-ending loop of collecting welfare to survive instead of working a low-paying job and gaining experience to better themselves. All at the taxpayer's expense. Yay.
|
|
|
|
In the matter of "what do the magical.papers say about theft and bitcoin", precedent is not necessary to prove that stealing bitcoin is forbidden by the magical papers -- showing a statute will do. Someone already showed a statute pertinent to the matter so I consider this case proven and closed.
Really? Who? I've provide the only statue that might cover it; New Jersey's definition that includes information, data... but there have been no court rulings on what that means. I mean if I look at your test in school technically I've stolen your answers... IE your information or data. Do we really want that to be handled as theft? So I'd want to see some rulings before one can really point to New Jersey and say 'AH HA!' and really that still leaves quite a few other states which don't have such specific protections in their laws. Test scores don't have value, and it doesn't cost the person anything if you look. That's a bad example compared to Bitcoin, which does have value and does cost the person something if you steal. |
|
|
|
They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st. They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.
Does US consumer protection law not apply to BFL? Let me quote you. If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund. Their promised time was January 1st. They have broken no laws, and if it is indeed delayed to January 1st, they have offered anyone a full refund. Heck, they're even going beyond their original agreement, and have thus far given everyone a refund who has requested it. |
|
|
|
|
They have stated that the refund/ship-by date is January 1st. They never guaranteed a shipment prior to this date, only said it was possible.
|
|
|
|
Quite the opposite. Bitcoin use is bound by the laws of your local jurisdiction. Yeah right, I'd like to see that in action He never said it would be easy to enforce, but he is correct. |
|
|
|
Called it. Thanks for finally giving us the reason behind the delay Josh. 100,000 chips is 7.5*100,000 = 750TH/s. Unless there's a significant price increase (let's all hope), then that takes just about all incentive out of buying ASICs once those chips are eaten up. Payback would be around a year at that point... fairly risky in the world of Bitcoin. You guys do this exact same dance with every single scammer, and you never see it coming somehow. Here's a hint, they all give you these bullshit excuses. Over and over again, and you all throw your money at them and thank them, then act completely stunned when they bolt with it. Here's a test of BFL's legitimacy. That ASIC you're blowing money on, have you even seen a prototype? Any evidence that it would even work if it did ship? Any evidence that the design behind it is sound? Anything at all? It is very obvious they are actually working on the project. They aren't outright scammers. They gave optimistic estimates for when they could ship, with the stipulation that that ship date may be pushed back in the event that something goes wrong. Something went wrong. It isn't any more complicated than that. If they were going to take everyone's money and run, it would have been done a long time ago. They are very likely losing money by having to give out refunds vs the number of new orders they might be taking in. 100,000 chips is 7.5*100,000 = 750TH/s. Unless there's a significant price increase (let's all hope), then that takes just about all incentive out of buying ASICs once those chips are eaten up. Payback would be around a year at that point... fairly risky in the world of Bitcoin.
I'm feeling it now for those who ordered early. With BFL's much bigger initial chip order the difference in delivery time between the first to order and the last is not going to be very long if they send them out soon-as-built meaning the big-returns widnow is likely to be short-lived as the ASIC hashing power goes through the roof. Profitability is not essential for me because it's as much novelty/supporting the project than anything else but to the extent that I am counting profitability it is versus returns in pounds had I simply bought Bitcoin instead. BTCGBP was about £6.80 when I made my BFL order (being now around £7.80) but those who put their money in when BTC was much cheaper have not only lost out on the raise in Bitcoin value but will also have little reward over latecomers in terms of getting an early advantage with mining. I really hope it works out for everyone but it's looking less likely by the day. I'm fine with it. Being one of the first to jump on ASICs will still be VERY profitable. And I can't look back in hindsight at what I would have made if I had invested directly in coins either - that wasn't a sure thing. They could have been worth exactly the same as they were when I ordered, or even less. |
|
|
|
Called it. Thanks for finally giving us the reason behind the delay Josh. 100,000 chips is 7.5*100,000 = 750TH/s. Unless there's a significant price increase (let's all hope), then that takes just about all incentive out of buying ASICs once those chips are eaten up. Payback would be around a year at that point... fairly risky in the world of Bitcoin. |
|
|
|
What exactly do you want me to do? Fly to Asia and knock on someones door?
Let's be realistic here. I can't very well force someone to give me a date that's accurate, since by forcing them I might be putting them in a position to give me a false date just to get me off their ass... and that helps no one.
What reputable business would not be able to give you an estimate of when they'll have the chips, that's just absurd. Are you guys using a 3rd world sweat shop or something to pump these things out? Also... why is BFL too cheap to pay for an expedited order? EDIT: You don't even have to respond to those questions. I know why, because you guys have yet to design a working chip. You're probably on your 3rd revision by now and it doesn't even work. They have responded previously that they do have an expedited order. |
|
|
|
I'd like to add MinecraftCC's project, Mine For Bitcoins (AKA The Minecraft Faucet), to the list. It currently (and for the forseeable future) pays 10 satoshis per block modified in the world, but I hope to increase that payout even further with incoming donations. http://www.minecraftcc.com/index.php?threads/information-about-getting-paid-to-mine.4613/Server IP: play.minecraftcc.com If you'd like to donate to the faucet, please sent any amount to 13m8dAb16KqWv7v9oEsr97mYMXbynR6CoD. I am funding this out of my own pocket so far, but only have so much I can afford to give away on a monthly basis. It really is a great way to introduce new people to Bitcoin. I've had more than two dozen players sign on to getting paid in Bitcoin now, (and more adding on every day), most of whom have never used Bitcoins before. Some people give out casascius coins to tell people about Bitcoin, which is great, but you can reach so many more people by putting that 1 BTC towards a project like this. |
|
|
|
Inaba, can you at least tell us if you have had one batch of chips already come through, and they didn't work out, so you're waiting on another batch?
How about proving you have a test unit functioning at claimed speed? Surely enough time has passed for that to be showable if an order is in for so many chips... Nah. That would be too easy. They don't have a test unit/prototype. If they did, you can bet your bottom they'd be showing it off the moment they could. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
