I agree. Because, after all, this is just an American (New York Exchange) thing. And i strongly believe the rest of the world (especially Asia) has more weight. One thing that is pending is definitely the halving, and i wouldn't be surprised this is one of the lows before that rise. But afterwards, who knows, some correction i guess...

In any case of course there is some speculation going on, this is the result of having a free coin, devoid of government manipulation. There might be a bunch of newbie shorters, let them, let them bet against bitcoin, we will see how they end next year...

That's what futures are all about, after all. This might be new a fun for many of them betting that Bitcoin is a "bubble", because they can't think beyond the Chicago school dogmas. Well, time (and getting burnt) will teach them.

Deflation is coming.

Its something like that but not quite. The word "crash" does not apply here, but you are correct people should not expect to become rich of buying crypto alone. Start a business that accepts bitcoin, or get a job that pays in bitcoin, will net you a better quality life than doing exactly the same with fiat.

Fiat is devalued at least 2% every year. Of course you cannot expect to live of 2% so even if you bought gold you would have to sell it again if you don't have another source of income. Bitcoin is like gold, but most altcoins are like fiat.

22 years for 20k? Hmm well not necessarily, it might be doable in about 15 years, since it took 10 for it to reach 10k, so logically 10 more needs to take longer. 22 is also valid and quite close to my expectations.

It is time for people to use bitcoin for what it was intended for, a coin, not a become rich scheme. It is maturing, and price will tend to stabilize and become "boring" on each passing day. But where are not there quite yet, however on each passing halving, it will fluctuate less and less.

And don't forget, mining is becoming unprofitable as well. It is headed to become unprofitable at any electricity price, even 1¢ will be too much, this time is coming, and the large miners will close, even asic production will dwindle down, and only hobbyists and small setups with renewable energy will remain and keep the network alive and kicking. But yes, no more money from mining either.

But contrary to your last words, this is not a decay. The price is not expected to go down (much), the longer it stays in a position, the closer that will be its natural price, with a very long tendency to go opposite to the fiat induced devaluation. This is per design, it is a sign of maturity, and is a very good sign.

The fools that don't pay attention and don't diversify their source of income NOW, will go bankrupt. But i guess it is inevitable. For example in trading it is said 90% lose, only 10% wins. Trading is too high risk, and yet its lower than gambling (but close).

For wire-transfer or sending money across borders, its already a winner. As a payment alternative it covers most scenarios. Something you buy online and go pick up later (or is sent to you) is already working perfectly well.

You talk about regulation, but that only covers the coins (money). Blockchain as a separate element can be used in any project without requesting authorization. But you are talking about payments, and that is an specific use which is heavily regulated (especially when it involves fiat, which most processors do).

Fiat is, after all, outside the realm of Bitcoin. Its State money.

Future depends on merchant willingness. Often, you can talk directly to a seller and ask if he/she would accept bitcoin, and chances are getting better and better everyday that in fact they do. Its often their trading platforms that won't, due to "fear" or regulation.

Don't bet against Bitcoin, you will be hurt... The others? Fair game, especially the centralized "stable" coins, give them enough time and they will fail

Of course the first owners will be those large companies and State institutions. Think of how classical computers started in the 40ies, pretty much as military secret, it took nearly half a century for the technology to reach the masses...

So, in the beginning, you can imagine who will have the first operating quantum computers, and no, they are not going to tell you. Of course its unlikely those entities will go after Bitcoin, but if the chance is there it should be addressed.

Even if it still theoretical, it should be considered and not keep ignoring the issue as if it doesn't exist. It does.

I think those price predictions will take a lot longer that some people here seem to be thinking, perhaps after 100 years...

You have to take into account the time that has passed since Bitcoin's inception. Follow the logarithmic curve, it gains value very fast the first years, and it starts slowing down as time passes. The more time passing, the slower the value gain.

Mining is compensating by doing the exact opposite, which is very interesting in itself.

If you think it took Bitcoin 10 years to reach 10k, you cannot think it needs 10 more years for the next 10k, because that would be a normal diagonal. No, in 10 years bitcoin has to gain less than 10k, even 9k is good, but can be less. Or you could say it needs more than 10 years to gain the next 10k in price.

So if after 10 (more) years price is 18k, you could say it took Bitcoin 20 years to reach 18k, the next 18k most take longer than 20 years, etc...

This is the future of Bitcoin, price increases will slow down until it becomes almost as boring as gold... It is a good asset to preserve value over government induced inflation, but don't see it in itself as a vehicle to become rich overnight. Only the very first enthusiasts who trusted and joined back then were able to do that.

And once again, the Chicago school dogma comes to haunt, and you probably don't even know why, or where it comes from, because you are yet to read about the "Austrian" school of economy.

What you wrote is all a lie, or even a myth. You are afraid of deflation, but you don't really know why, you just repeat what others wrote. Those others, studied the currently dominating school of economy. This school is flawed, it is THE reason for "recessions" as you call them.

The economists from the Austrian school think different. Bubbles, are formed because of the Chicago thinking, and where there are bubbles, there are pops. Bubbles never form under deflation, because people are more focused into saving and only spend what they need to spend. This spending is backed in TRUE savings, not the fiction known as fractional reserve banking, and all their debt inducing methods.

They induce inflation because they need in their flawed thinking, to people to keep getting in debt and consuming (out of vapor). All these things go under deflation.

Two opposites: Work 20 years to save and buy the house or, get a loan pay the house now and work 40 years to pay it back. Can you guess which is which?

Do not fear deflation, embrace it. It doesn't cause more problems, it cures them. The world doesn't need governments intentionally devaluing fiat, in fact such fiat is garbage, be it 1% in your country, or 10 million % in mine.

Bitcoin isn't facing any "trouble", the mistaken Chicago economists are. They have half a century telling lies, and before them were the keynesians but lets ignore those which are even worse.

This is the key element that is missing in your thought: https://mises.org/

Only then, will you ever understand the lies you have been told all your life.

The world NEEDS deflation, and it will come once the foolish governments are taken out of the equation.

And then you will see a rock solid economy devoid of bubbles, and people especially in the western hemisphere will learn to save before buying and not the other way around. We don't need an artificial economy standing on vapor, same thing happens to the first investors of a MLM scheme, they make lots of money and very fast, until people figure it out, that is.

Yes you have been living on vapor, and are even defending their scheme when you bring their lies here. You are in the dark, fooled by the State and the banksters that thrive and actually legalized that scheme in the past two centuries. But things will return to normal, fractional reserve banking will end, and the world will move to a global deflationary economy.

I don't think the government will be able to take the pressure, if they do it, they will later retract it. Korea moves a lot of money, but they are crazy as well, the politicians panic and don't know what to do with the scandals, hacking, corruption, scams and what not, and see evil crypto as the root of evil, but that is pure ignorance and will come to bite them. As i have posted elsewhere, any country banning Bitcoin is telling wealth to go elsewhere, and you said pretty well where: USA and Japan. I don't think they can take the pressure and the people will get angry once they find out the truth...

BTW: I don't consider bitcoin price fluctuating as a sign of "complication", if anything, its a sign of freedom. Nobody can control it, and when it matures, it will be on its own. No "help" is the best help, its the one that will stand the test of time, like gold. And they should know about precious metals and jewelry as well... Also never forget, its the country with the most expensive electricity in the world. Therefore their mining is zero.

When a bank embraces bitcoin and becomes payment processor or exchange, and adds bitcoin to their regular ATMs, then they may become more attractive. In the meantime, internet is the best source of bitcoin.

The other way is when the exchange becomes bank like, and starts handling fiat. But there is so much regulation, so i don't know if the likes of Coinbase could set up ATMs. Thing is an ATM is a type of exchange from to fiat, and the fiat handlers are those banks.

I see little point for Bitcoin ATMs at the moment, again, maybe if the banks finally embrace bitcoin, which i think will start happening sooner or later anyway.

Because there is no need to do this, and PoS is never the answer. The free market forces alone are fixing this, mining is meant to become rare and few people will bother doing it anymore, so its not like you can't and large corps can, soon they too will quit. If anything, only the hobbyists that don't mind losing money, will remain as the last miners, and those smaller operations with free energy such as those with renewable sources.

As you can see, everything is in your own misconceptions. Did you ever thought people would live of mining bitcoin? The mining phase was meant to end, bitcoin is about the coin, not about living of it. Once minted you use them, like you would any other coin.

Nearly all coins have been minted, around 18million of 21, and the reminder will come in the span of the next hundred years, with each one coming slower and slower, which is why mining has to become unprofitable and unattractive.

Bitcoin is entering maturity, and you need to do absolutely nothing to "fix" that. Those who claim it, are either misguided or mistaken.

It turns out there is some little bit of information about this September (bOSminer) release:


As you can see its a work in progress, unless you want to play with a single board S9 fixed at 650 MHz, don't bother downloading it. Oh yes, interestingly they also have a mining proxy also made in rust, but its meant to translate V2 to V1. My guess is they intend miners to use this within their LAN for regular pools.

To reiterate: do not use this unless you want to help test development using a single S9 hash board fixed at 650mhz...

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After they finish bOSminer (First stable release expected in the beginning of next year), they plan to add support for more hardware. I don't really know if current bOS works there, i don't think so due to the different controller like the hydro etc.

There is some misunderstanding in earlier posts here. Btcpay is software (Free and Open Source), it talks the same way Bitpay expects. The idea is, any merchant already using Bitpay on their site could stop using them, and switch to using btcpay setting it themselves or have a (different) third party.

This is why you are not going to see "btcpay" much as most sites switching to it would appear they are accepting bitcoin directly.

So yes, anyone could use btcpay to setup a bitpay clone service, and the merchants themselves can do it.

Ideally merchants would just take bitcoin directly, but i guess some people want to keep all their accounting in fiat. By using a payment processor, all they ever see is fiat, the processor exchanges it before it reaches them.

Then try with the "official" method which involves flashing to the T9+ firmware (that's Bitmain "quality" support) and then enter the ui of that to "upgrade" to the actual S9 firmware of theirs (2017 or 2018 should work).

If that also doesn't cure it, you might have a damaged nand, and you will be forced to either replace the controller, or permanently use an sd card with bOS in it.

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BTW Just looking at the feeds page i spotted a newer experimental bOSminer version... There are no release notes of this 14th September "bosminer preview" release and i don't know if people should upgrade to it, perhaps waiting for release details would be prudent. bOSminer is probably not feature complete at this point, they were saying by the beginning of next year it would be ready...

bosminer is a cgminer replacement written in rust language.

The free market society works a little different. You keep your eyes open, and see which one is taking measures, then take your money there if you still want to keep using those services. Else you could go bankless

You could also start some informative campaign, so more and more people ask their banks what they are doing to improve the security. I'm sure you won't be alone pressing them to migrate to better algorithms and not wait until its to late and a "hacking scandal" puts them in trouble.

Here (Bitcoin) we should expect action, then we can safely safeguard funds here (instead of risking using a flawed online banking).

After quantum computing becomes so common everyone gets their own quantum co-processor or such, the obvious solution will be to use quantum crypto. That might be half a century away... But some of the current crypto algos are quantum resistant, and those should be implemented and used ASAP.

Its not about some silly panic craze, but also not remaining asleep as if nothing is happening. This is probably going to involve all crypto users, not just coins.

Yes, but the problem with these, is that they can. Same reason why things like undoing the blockchain (done by ETH) is so harmful. They have the power to selectively decide who gets to transact and who doesn't. So its restoring the manipulation States have over fiat.

Libra is under US jurisdiction, if it survives, it will have to bend to whatever rules they impose to it, such as forbidding transactions to/from my country. And if some are found, they would have to "reverse" them like a bank. Exactly the reason why they are so worthless.

Of course MSN wasn't the only one attempting "a better internet", i remember some others, but its all ancient history tho it felt funny back then (and i hated the idea back then as well). Same way some fools today promote "a better Bitcoin"...

Yes but you people fail to understand this won't be an on/off thing. Indeed certain core dev told me they are ready to push a little update to make Bitcoin more resistant, but as most things they do, they take their time. Perhaps these news will encourage them to give it more priority. I don't think its urgent either, but we should not sleep on it.

After all, when those computers start becoming useful to crack encryption publicly, privately the likes of the NSA would have been already done it. so you shouldn't wait until IBM or Google, both American companies that could be served gag orders to remain quiet at any moment (if they haven't done so already)  announce things to take action.

Cracking current encryption is still away, but not as far as you think. If you can take measures now, you should.

Remember, by the time they announce anything, it is too late. Be ready before that.

I expect that at first, only those large institutions would own them due to their massive size, so naturally you'd "trust them" (Ie. the NSA). But with time, they will shrink and their cost will be lower. That old game of the 90ies with PGP will probably repeat. National security reasons you can't export blah blah China has it already, and Russia gets it from them, and eventually it starts permeating to the public.

Hmm i wonder if quantum communication will ever become a reality, its still looks like sci-fi, it would allow instant communications over vast distances, crucial for things like Mars colonies or beyond... It has to do with quantum entanglement. It could also lead us to under 1ms latency...

For credit/debit it needs an iso7816 reader, but most importantly, banking support, and this is the biggest obstacle.

The ATMs can easily be taking pictures of you. Maybe not the ones you tried, but i expect them to do it either verbosely of secretly, just to "cover themselves" in case of a legal investigation. The camera might be on the atm itself, or nearby. Usually they have cameras pointed at them, just to "deter vandalism"...

Just like most bank atms take pictures or video of you all the time, so can these. Cameras are very easy to conceal nowdays, don't expect to notice them.

Neither, unless you mean the downward direction.

Unless you live under a rock, you should have noticed this year the market has been flooded with last generation asic miners, those are commonly around 50 TH/s at around 2600w vs the 4 year old 12TH/S for 1400w.

In fact, the manufacturers can't cope with the demand, but they have been delivering, more or less, with the usual Chinese suspect leading (tho they are all Chinese nowdays).

Given a flat bitcoin price, this hashrate increase makes mining less and less profitable. Usually bitcoin price increases (for different reasons) and compensates this, but not in exact proportion. In fact, it has become less and less profitable and will eventually become unprofitable at all, even with higher bitcoin prices.

Large scale mining has its days counted. It might take a few more years, but not much longer large miners will be able to continue. Only those hobbyists with small setups and free electricity options will remain in the future.

I wouldn't, and i don't recommend anyone to do so, unless they are desperate for cash and don't have access to a bank account. Its far more cheaper to go online exchange the bitcoins and have that fiat deposited in your bank (from which you could withdraw at their atms or use a debit card).

Anyway yes, they could increase adoption, if only because they happen to be ad signs.

As i have written elsewhere, ironically those ATMs are useless where the fiat has gone the hyperinflation spiral. It is a physical problem, given the amount of useless banknotes they would need to carry, they simply become unfeasible. They could, at best, transfer money to your bank account, and then doing that online would have been many times cheaper.

Unless you haven't noticed, yes, i consider the fees Bitcoin ATMs ask horrendous, worse than credit cards.

That is not incorrect, as bitcoin is simply another type of value, but not a source of value making by itself. Its like buying gold or oil, or perhaps euros or yens.

People should not invest in bitcoin thinking they can live of that later. This is the wrong mentality, and will prove into assured failure, especially as time passes this becomes more and more evident (maturity). You have to find something to invest with that will bring you value. Now that value, instead of being USD could be bitcoin. See? its just a coin by itself, not the source of them.

However, this old types might also refuse to touch it at all, even if they could immediately change it into fiat, for whatever dogmatic reasons. And that is WRONG. Treat it like you would treat any foreign money that can be freely exchanged without any conditions.

Of course they have every right to decide where to invest and where not, its their money, so its their problem.