So new roadmap is out, what do you think? Let's be honest, I was expeting those dates, a company can't set up legal and liquidity things in just a couple of month. I can surely wait, better if they take time to make things right
I'm very surprised how calm investors are. Everytime I come here I read posts just like yours (let's give them time, it's complicated, they're working hard etc.). As far as I remember, in mid September they claimed to launch beta in November. Now it's almost December and they say thay will launch it in February. Actually I'm almost sure, that they first said October, and November was to witness their's first property aquisition. They claim they're behind the schedule because of not meeting their ICO goals, but I just cannot imagine how people are willing to believe these excuses. To create a web site which is not that complicated it should take no more than 300 hours of work. They almost don't update. They left bitcointalk as soon as they realized that some people here can actually think sober and ask difficult questions. They claim they have to establish a company in Singapur, whereas 2 months ago they claimed they are already established there. For past month instead of giving updates and working on the platform, they posted about their travels to Singapur and Australia to attend some summits that have nothing to do with real estate. How can you still say they're doing their job just fine? I agree 100%. That's how you know ICOs as a way to raise money is still in its infancy. There's no way sophisticated investors would be so complacent. I'm as shocked as you are that people aren't more demanding. It honestly baffles me. |
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It's tough to grasp that many projects are running their own timeframe and looking at others move quicker can be frustrating, but it's the downfall of access to so much info when in the past others relied on simple quarterly reports and press releases.
Developing the platform understandably takes time. Getting the legal work done and finding real estate to invest in shouldn't take as long. This has nothing to do with "too much" access to information. Each project needs time to develop. The roadmap is being implemented. Keep calm. A true and transparent project. I recommend keeping your card. Prices are up there, take a look at it here: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/real/LOL...there has been so little transparency. They have to be pressured just to provide the minimum amount of info you'd expect. |
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This is the name of the Telegram group. Hopefully it makes it easier to find through a search. Real Unofficial + ICO + Token Nothing found. Why don't you just post the link like this https://t.me/realplatform? Every channel has one if you choose to display channel information... There's no easy way to find the link, otherwise I would post it for you. |
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It's tough to grasp that many projects are running their own timeframe and looking at others move quicker can be frustrating, but it's the downfall of access to so much info when in the past others relied on simple quarterly reports and press releases.
Developing the platform understandably takes time. Getting the legal work done and finding real estate to invest in shouldn't take as long. This has nothing to do with "too much" access to information. I am a cryptofan and have legal background. Establishing the legal framework for the Token sale is a separate issue from establishing the legal framework for the Real Estate tokenization entity. It should be easy and fast to do it "wrong". But considering RPP might be securities, and that they are working in a totally new area, I find it normal that it takes a couple of months. I am very satisfied so far with their progress and transparency. I believe the team is doing the right steps. I'm not a lawyer, but have been through complex legal processes before. That said, I could be wrong, so please educate me if anything I'm saying is inaccurate. All they need to do to start the acquisition process is set up legal entities. I have no idea what's required in Singapore, but I assume the actual registration process is pretty simple and most of the work would be related to creating Operating Agreements. They aren't negotiating terms with another party, so the time it takes should be related to getting proper guidance from their attorneys. That shouldn't take months unless there are problems (which would be concerning). You'd also think they would have at least determined the framework before they started raising money. The problem is they aren't really saying what's going on...just that they are working on things. If there are no problems and it just takes more time than I think, it shouldn't be very hard to explain that. |
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Question for the team:
Since you guys are already invested in the Berlin market, do you expect to seed the Core portfolio with any of your existing investments? In other words, do you plan on selling any existing properties to the Core fund?
Hey that is definitely not happening since that would be very incorrect of us (we do provide a data room where every acquisition is published and monitored by a third party). What we are doing is sourcing new acquisitions trough our huge network to get the best deals possible! Good...that's the right answer! |
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This is the name of the Telegram group. Hopefully it makes it easier to find through a search. Real Unofficial + ICO + Token |
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It's tough to grasp that many projects are running their own timeframe and looking at others move quicker can be frustrating, but it's the downfall of access to so much info when in the past others relied on simple quarterly reports and press releases.
Developing the platform understandably takes time. Getting the legal work done and finding real estate to invest in shouldn't take as long. This has nothing to do with "too much" access to information. |
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Good question, because they confirmed a while ago that they could start making investments once the legal entities were set up. That way the cash wouldn't just be sitting idle while they build the platform. I have no idea why the legal side should take so long unless they are encountering issues. |
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Have you ever Heard about REALISTO.IO? They have a similar concept and a working Alpha Platform.
Sadly i Missed out on real but i am in at Realisto
Are you the same guy who is spamming realisto on telegram lol? How you even missed out on Real if right now we're under ICO price? I'm not affiliated with Realisto in any way, but it does seem to be a much better opportunity. REAL released their new roadmap today and now they don't expect to make their first investment until February. |
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Question for the team:
Since you guys are already invested in the Berlin market, do you expect to seed the Core portfolio with any of your existing investments? In other words, do you plan on selling any existing properties to the Core fund?
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But they will still have limited resources that an unlimited ICO can't easily solve. They couldn't acquire 6 million worth of real
I think then you do had a typo  but still i think the idea with no hardcap should be applied here. At least i cant think of a better Example. Do you ? Oops...you're right! I just think it'll help them raise money more easily. There were comments from someone in another Telegram group saying that they didn't look into the company as soon as they saw there was no cap. That's what made me think it was worth considering. If they can invest €20-30 million per year with their existing team, let's assume they could quickly triple that if necessary. That would be €60-90 million per year. 5 years worth of capital would be €300-400 million. Maybe round up to €500 million for even more of a buffer and say that's the cap. There's no way they will be able to raise €500 million in an ICO. Again, nothing against the team, but the ICO market just isn't that deep yet. But this at least makes it easier to explain where the number comes from for people who have difficulty grasping the fact that unlimited is OK. I still think it would be better to stage the fundraising process, but I'm not as concerned about that even though it'll lower the dividend rate. |
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I assume it was a typo but why cant they acquire Real Estate Worth 6 Million? And it is obvious that no ICO will raise 6 bln.... I think that Vitaliks advise fits to every ico that invests. If you develop an App you do Need more than a hardcap but for Investments ? Sky is the Limit !
No, it wasn't a typo. Transaction volume in Berlin is around 6 billion per year. That's why I said that even if they could raise that much (which they couldn't), it would also be impossible for them to invest it. So they should set a reasonable cap based on the max they think they could actually invest over a certain period of time. My guess is that they are probably capable of investing more than they'll actually raise, but a cap helps with the optics of not being "unlimited". Just set it to a number that's reasonable based on their resources as an investor. From an operational perspective, it shouldn't have an impact, but it could help raise money. Hey Panorama, actually Berlin real estate volume was close to 25 billion USD in 2016. The great thing about the Berlin real estate market is that you can acquire a flat for refurbishment for 80k but also a residential portfolio for 300 million, we do have a big team of real estate experts and a huge network of professionals so you can rest assured we can invest everything we raise in the ICO into a very diversified portfolio. Putting the funds to good use is one of the key factors in investing, that means sourcing the best deals is key and it is the reason why we are far far ahead of other real estate ICOs that don´t even have experience in the real estate sector. Thanks for the clarification. In my earlier post, I mentioned that I was referring to just the commercial side. I should have been more clear in my follow up as well. Do you have a sense of how much you could actually invest per year based on the size of your team and investment strategy? No matter how much confidence I have in your team, there are still limits to what you're capable of doing in a single year. Thank you for the clarification as well. We are able to easily invest 20-30 Million and more importantly to manage those assets with the current team, also we do have access to a lot more manpower if needed. Is the €20-30 million equity value or gross asset value? |
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I assume it was a typo but why cant they acquire Real Estate Worth 6 Million? And it is obvious that no ICO will raise 6 bln.... I think that Vitaliks advise fits to every ico that invests. If you develop an App you do Need more than a hardcap but for Investments ? Sky is the Limit !
No, it wasn't a typo. Transaction volume in Berlin is around 6 billion per year. That's why I said that even if they could raise that much (which they couldn't), it would also be impossible for them to invest it. So they should set a reasonable cap based on the max they think they could actually invest over a certain period of time. My guess is that they are probably capable of investing more than they'll actually raise, but a cap helps with the optics of not being "unlimited". Just set it to a number that's reasonable based on their resources as an investor. From an operational perspective, it shouldn't have an impact, but it could help raise money. Hey Panorama, actually Berlin real estate volume was close to 25 billion USD in 2016. The great thing about the Berlin real estate market is that you can acquire a flat for refurbishment for 80k but also a residential portfolio for 300 million, we do have a big team of real estate experts and a huge network of professionals so you can rest assured we can invest everything we raise in the ICO into a very diversified portfolio. Putting the funds to good use is one of the key factors in investing, that means sourcing the best deals is key and it is the reason why we are far far ahead of other real estate ICOs that don´t even have experience in the real estate sector. Thanks for the clarification. In my earlier post, I mentioned that I was referring to just the commercial side. I should have been more clear in my follow up as well. Do you have a sense of how much you could actually invest per year based on the size of your team and investment strategy? No matter how much confidence I have in your team, there are still limits to what you're capable of doing in a single year. |
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Here are a couple of my questions (slightly modified) from Telegram that I'm still waiting to have answered. I thought about asking the questions privately, but I thought it would be better for it to be public:
1) Do you think it will be difficult to get financing for properties with a tokenized structure?
2) If financing is not an issue, how much leverage do you intend to use and will properties be cross-collateralized at all? For instance, let's say within the Opportunity Fund I invest in Property A, but not Property B. If Property B defaults on its loan, will the lender have Property A as additional collateral?
3) I see that there's no hard cap. I understand the benefits of having more capital available to invest. However, 10% is supposed to go to Operational Expenses.
I wouldn't expect all costs to go up linearly as a percentage of capital raised. So, let's say you raise much more than actually necessary to operate the fund and you don't really need the full 10%. What happens to the extra operating capital? Does it go to the team, back to acquisition capital, or is it reserved somehow?
Also, even though I agree raising more capital is better, there's still only a limited amount of money you can invest. How much equity do you expect you can reasonably invest per year?
I know it may be too late for this, but I think it would be better if you only raised enough for 1-3 years worth of acquisitions, but allow yourself the ability to mint/sell more tokens in the future. Some people are just automatically turned off when they see you don't have a cap and don't bother to look further into the business.
4) Is there a Limited Partnership Agreement (or something similar) that can be reviewed?
Hey Panorama, here are my answers pasted out of our Telegram Group ( https://t.me/joinchat/GamJOhGAwjDk) Regarding your question about financing:Not at all since we are public limited company under german law which is established since 2015. Regarding the cross-collateralization: First of all there is no need for that since it is not 2008 and the properties are not overrated as such. Furthermore we are going to use leverage but if everything is properly managed there is a very slim chance of a loan defaulting. Regarding your question about the Operational Fund, those 10% are also used to fund and develop the platform, the more equity we have available the faster we can grow into more markets ( since we need to establish companies in other jurisdictions to properly do that) also every launch of something new requires marketing (Apple is advetising its Iphone X on every bus stop from here to bejing for a reason). So with a bigger budget we will foster growth. Obviously if we receive more than we need it will be reserved. There will be a monthly audit of all the costs published by our trustee. Regarding the company formation https://realisto.io/files/documents/Handelsregisterauszug.pdf(please keep in mind it is in German) Thank you. Please note that the questions I posted here this morning are similar, but slightly modified. Could you please address the additional points as well? Thanks! |
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I assume it was a typo but why cant they acquire Real Estate Worth 6 Million? And it is obvious that no ICO will raise 6 bln.... I think that Vitaliks advise fits to every ico that invests. If you develop an App you do Need more than a hardcap but for Investments ? Sky is the Limit !
No, it wasn't a typo. Transaction volume in Berlin is around €6 billion per year. See the 3Q17 report from Colliers: http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/emea/germany/berlin_research/office-letting-investment-berlin-infographics-colliers-q3-2017-en.pdf?la=en-GBThat's why I said that even if they could raise that much (which they couldn't), it would also be impossible for them to invest it. So they should set a reasonable cap based on the max they think they could actually invest over a certain period of time. My guess is that they are probably capable of investing more than they'll actually raise, but a cap helps with the optics of not being "unlimited". Just set it to a number that's reasonable based on their resources as an investor. From an operational perspective, it shouldn't have an impact, but it could help raise money. |
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As much as I'm a fan of Vitalik, I don't think you can apply what he's saying to this situation. Realisto is looking to raise money for an investment fund (with a small amount set aside for the team and operations). With that in mind, there's a physical limit in terms of how much they can invest in Berlin real estate per year. I believe commercial real estate transaction volume is around 6 billion Euro per year (although I'd have to double check that), so it's a pretty large market, plus they will be doing some residential investing. But they will still have limited resources that an unlimited ICO can't easily solve. They couldn't acquire 6 million worth of real Raising cash that sits idle because you can't invest it quickly enough isn't productive because it won't generate a return. That'll dilute dividends for everyone. That's why I was saying they should consider raising funds over time...as they have the ability to invest it. It's perfectly transparent if you're up front about it. I'm suggesting it because it makes more business sense, not to mislead anyone. |
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Bitcoin is totally unpredictable but I also think the value of this token will get decided after the launch of beta version. There are so many positive feedback and the team is also working with a positive mind so that I have good expectation about the future of PPT.
Correct. People need to see it in action. We need to see what kind of interest rates we can get and what the risk really is. If the rates are great and risk is low, word will spread and the price will rocket - no promotion needed. Also depends on supply of invoices and overall demand. The market will achieve an equilibrium for probably what a comparable stock would give as a dividend. As much as 30-50x annual earnings potential perhaps, whatever that ends up being. If risk is a bit higher maybe only 15-30x. And this can happen literally over just a few months. Exciting times. What's also exciting is the prospect for PPP and HVN. If PPT goes from $10 --> $100+, it will surely bring those other two along as it will be natural for investors to start looking for alternatives. And HVN is dirt cheap right now. Just sayin... You can get some stats here: https://www.marketinvoice.com/investor-statistics - one of their main competitors with great marketing team. From this, you can see that to stay competitive, you will have to lend at 5-10% before defaults and service fees. Effectively, at 3-6% p.a. Those rates are per invoice period, not per annum. |
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Here are a couple of my questions (slightly modified) from Telegram that I'm still waiting to have answered. I thought about asking the questions privately, but I thought it would be better for it to be public:
1) Do you think it will be difficult to get financing for properties with a tokenized structure?
2) If financing is not an issue, how much leverage do you intend to use and will properties be cross-collateralized at all? For instance, let's say within the Opportunity Fund I invest in Property A, but not Property B. If Property B defaults on its loan, will the lender have Property A as additional collateral?
3) I see that there's no hard cap. I understand the benefits of having more capital available to invest. However, 10% is supposed to go to Operational Expenses.
I wouldn't expect all costs to go up linearly as a percentage of capital raised. So, let's say you raise much more than actually necessary to operate the fund and you don't really need the full 10%. What happens to the extra operating capital? Does it go to the team, back to acquisition capital, or is it reserved somehow?
Also, even though I agree raising more capital is better, there's still only a limited amount of money you can invest. How much equity do you expect you can reasonably invest per year?
I know it may be too late for this, but I think it would be better if you only raised enough for 1-3 years worth of acquisitions, but allow yourself the ability to mint/sell more tokens in the future. Some people are just automatically turned off when they see you don't have a cap and don't bother to look further into the business.
4) Is there a Limited Partnership Agreement (or something similar) that can be reviewed?
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One of the problems with ICOs in general compared to company IPOs is that you typically don't receive any shares/equity/control in the company. Further, a lot of ICOs offer only one potential for a return on your investment - if their tokens go up in value once they're listed on exchanges. Sure, they might skyrocket and "go to the moon", or, they might not. Many news streams are calling ICOs the next great thing. But frankly, I think it's quite unfair - you invest, yet you receive NO share of the company's profits! This leaves investors wide open to losing their money with nothing to show for it.
As a result of this, I'm very interested in any ICO that offers something more than just the value of the token.
Realisto is one of those rare ICOs that offers something "real" (backed by real world assets - property), as well as returns beyond the value of the tokens themselves. The big one for me is the monthly residual income generated from the underlying real estate investments made by the Realisto management team and from licensing income generated as the team resells/rents the platform to other real estate companies globally.
My only criticism is that the Realisto team are being a bit too cautious in their approach. They are starting with the German market that they know very well, and will slowly expand to international markets over time. My worry is that someone else might see the wonderful approach Realisto are taking, then copy that pattern and move a lot faster into the international markets. I'm also seeing a lot less "buzz" around the Realisto ICO than I'm seeing around some other ICOs. One ICO I've been tracking for example, launched just 10 hours ago, and has already sold 95% of their tokens and raised $US27M. When you go on these different ICOs' Telegram channels, they have 1,000s of users and lots of people talking and generating buzz and excitement. Realisto unfortunately doesn't have a Telegram channel where people can talk (only company announcements are sent out on the channel) - correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find any other Telegram channel for Realisto. While this BTT forum is a place for people to talk about Realisto, it's very old school compared to a platform like Telegram. Realisto needs to be embracing Telegram and assigning a number of admins to always be online (24/7) to answer people's questions and generate buzz.
As a result, the pre-sale which is solid, is however still moving quite slowly compared to a lot of other ICOs.
I think Realisto needs to strike while they have the lead in this awesome area and start thinking a lot bigger, and immediately and rapidly expand their marketing efforts.
One other suggestion is to maybe add a special "Founding member" benefit, which gives only the pre-sale investors some super-special benefit around the international expansion. I'm thinking for example, early access to international opportunities when new real estate companies come onboard, and/or even better, maybe a small ongoing residual income to Founding members from every new real estate company that joins the platform (beyond just the licensing fees). To me, it's the international expansion that will make Realisto absolutely HUGE within a couple of years. Giving Founding members a small slice of that international expansion (again, going beyond the licensing fees), will make the tokens INCREDIBLY VALUABLE AND HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER in the coming months.
In closing, the above comments aren't meant to be negative at all. I'm just expressing my observations and giving my suggestions for how to improve things.
If I didn't believe Realisto were onto something MAJOR and UNIQUE, I wouldn't have invested my money into the pre-sale (and, if some additional Founding member benefits can be added, I personally will be investing a lot more into the pre-sale!).
I look forward to any changes you might make, and feel free to reach out if I can help with anything (happy to send my CV privately to you).
Cheers.
Hey Toby! Thank you for your comment, we actually do have a Telegram channel where you can even chat with the Founders Rouven & Leonard, and it is a great altrough still small community.https://t.me/joinchat/GamJOhGAwjDkgCeWHPUmMAThere is a good and strategic reason why we don´t hopelessly overreach like other Real Estate ICOs and claim the we as the founders could immediately become global real estate investors. Mind you our Platform is a global real estate tokenization hub where local real estate experts from all over the world can share their knowledge of their local markets and let people from all over the world invest into their local markets. Every other approach is actually deemed to fail, we have worked in Berlin real estate since 2011 and and took many years to understand the market and get a good feeling for it. If i invest in real estate in New York tomorrow i would not be as successful but if we enable New York real estate experts to launch their projects on our platform - that is the game changer. Real estate is a local affair! And you need local experts - REALISTO provides that but with a global scale. Yes there are ICOs that raise many millions on the first day but those are very different projects usually with a lot more hype. Real Estate is sometimes considered "boring" even if it is actually one of the most promising asset classes and one of the best ways for everyone to diversify their portfolio. People shouldn't underestimate how important this is. I wouldn't even consider Realisto if their investment strategy wasn't focused on what they do best. They are also building a platform for other investment companies to use, so if someone is a specialist in New York, they can use the Realisto platform to quickly launch their business, and token holders will benefit from that. You don't need (or want) the Realisto team to try and be experts in every market. |
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With the rise in ETH prices, tokens should be worth around $0.71 now.
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