I think centrally controlled govt backed currencies are the worst idea ever. I will never be convinced it's a good idea.
+1 The governments would need a centralised currency, if not they are risking to lose control, and the most important feature of the cryptocurrencies is decentralisation. |
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OK. This the order of my burnt coins
With the 826 first burnt, i had reward every day one block almost. But have to be kept on mind that a few years ago i was the only miner or or maybe two people. So after burning a bigger amounts i was rewarded every few seconds
TRUE 2017-09-21T10:26:38.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -45000.01 5fe5c2b44db9d541de1ad6ddc131bc1202d19a0db1e040f146d2acf7c0f71243-000
TRUE 2017-09-21T10:26:25.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -50000.01 cbd06fb7052dcf7501d1cfd82f5dd8566dac4ee16eb099da18f1321ab5e3b8a9-000
TRUE 2017-09-21T10:26:12.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -50000.01 c6d2620c030828e25ea6d4c57ee0638174c89af39154a468abe5a389b0488b86-000
TRUE 2017-09-21T10:25:58.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -50000.01 40ad2fddfefeba7a3558f20ba8d831f118800d8b505c2695ec982d18468f75c8-000
TRUE 2017-09-21T10:25:41.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -50000.01 4d7f294fb74a54c7193b1b2f317596f2f1ce5219a5c9aea18ceb262c495744f9-000
TRUE 2017-05-23T20:43:41.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -50000.01 8b03aa4ecd78a8fe784a0b3fe38cf4a154e07ce57404fda92022bd6e20773bf3-000
TRUE 2017-05-23T20:43:41.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -50000.01 0e6b7160c8e09ac4aceb096352a90a119ede55a4abd013427be8ae3d560b455f-000
TRUE 2017-05-23T20:43:40.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -7000.01 3ab8bdae19a7b9876aa3b9b9876de0cf3c1d696a00ca4e039fcf04ac81f91d77-000
TRUE 2017-05-23T20:43:40.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -7000.01 9aea771a5f075602475499f1b02aae9a0deded2d20603009b7ad6b572c2a0247-000
TRUE 2016-12-19T12:25:19.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -1000.01 960b0ffa122d0ce6bb3a6e5a5f39d67e9efc07f41c9d438a9637f3d15987e33b-000
TRUE 2015-10-02T08:04:11.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -800.04 37703fb564b67ec34a78f0498d2ca65fbd1453368d33db1a57d25ca90dc1a4bd-000
TRUE 2015-09-30T16:46:42.000 Burned SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5 -26.01 67d2412578ef721b841b50c67835d102dba4dd3fa08ea305fe29ceffc7e4f96a-000
So with the above information do we have enough data to provide to the newcomers for them to be able to evaluate objectively the SLM profitability? |
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I was thinking the same thing also because I'd like to let the ROI high for as long as possible in order to be able to advertise SLM in the mean time, so it's better I don't add other SLM into PoB smithy.
So if there is someone interested to help with his data anonymously please follow the procedure described by @d5000 and once we have that data we'll be able to provide it to the newcomers as a proof of profitability.
However I think the data provided by @gavrilo77 is very interesting. Practically he made 133% of the initial capital in 833 days and he has still 55% of initial capital left. So he was making 58%/y minting with PoB, while coins decayed were 19%/y. In other words his profits were 58%/y and his losses were 19%/y. So his net profits are 39%/y. And it's not the maximum profit possible, as he hasn't kept his computer always on.
Additional positive aspects here are that:
- there was no work involved with coin minting, the only thing he'd need to do was to invest his coins using PoB, keep his wallet open and his computer connected to the net, while for instance in masternoding one need to do some work: setting up the node, finding a provider, checking constantly if his node is up and so on. So basically he was more in a position of investor and less of the position of worker.
- the profits he has obtained wasn't a short term profits, so there is a good hope he'll go on making 39% of profits potentially forever (if all the conditions remain the same and he reinvests the 19% of 58% gained to cover the losses).
So I'd make the following advertising signature: "Slimcoin's PoB - interesting long-term profitability, low collateral". Does it sound well to anybody?
But I have another doubt to clear. Is it possible that if someone burns a very small quantity of SLMs he'll never receive any reward, like when someone tries to mine BTC with CPU?
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Then maybe we can try another path.
What if I set up two machines one with 10,000 SLMs burned and another with 100,000 SLMs burned with the scrypt that re-burns coins that was decayed in order to have always the same number of effectively burned coins, so everybody can see the results from that moment on and make his/her estimates about how profitable it is/was.
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@johnwhitestar: Yep, that's the way to go, I think. The SPARQL endpoint Graham built (for ACME) with the data of the whole blockchain would provide the necessary data (all PoB blocks, rewards etc. until now) and would make it really easy to search them, however I think it is offline now, and I won't have access to my own copy of that service until October. (SPARQL is a language to make database queries)
It is obviously also possible to search these data in a block explorer or even using the Slimcoin client, but it is much more complicated. One would have to track the following data:
- the Burn address (to see all transactions to it): SfSLMCoinMainNetworkBurnAddr1DeTK5
- all PoB blocks (all blocks which have a flag "proof-of-burn") - this is (if I'm not forgetting something) only viable with a script, because you otherwise would have to search in millions of blocks.
A workaround would be to simply calculate an estimation, taking:
- the 24 PoB blocks per day (on average)
- the current PoB block reward (or the average block reward of the last months)
- the current amount of effective burnt coins.
You can, however, not extract an exact ROI value, only the following kind of conclusion:
"When XX% of the effective burnt coins are minting, then your ROI is YY/year".
@d5000 - Wasn't the proportion of PoB/PoS/PoW blocks the same all time? - And the reward per block isn't the same for PoB, PoS and PoW? Because if the above two conditions are satisfied, knowing how much coins were produced so far we can say that they are result of X blocks, n 1 of which were PoB, n 2 of which were PoS, n 3 of which were PoW. So we'd have the exact number of coins produced with PoB. While the number of burned coins is easily retrievable using "slimcoind getinfo" command. So generally speaking we'll be able to tell what was the ROI with PoB over time. Wouldn't it work that way? |
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Думаю, что основная проблема битка отнюдь не волатильность, поскольку это не биток волатилен к фиату, а фиат и всю экономику болтает по отношению к битку.
Основная проблема битка в том, что он подразумевает совсем другую экономику, а его пытаются прикрутить к этой.
Как если бы систему обработки земли быками пытались применять при первобытной охоте.
Ввиду вышесказанного согласен с теми, кто здесь высказался о том, что крупные корпорации тут особо не повлияют, поскольку думаю что они вращаются в другой системе координат.
Конечно для данной системы координат имена таких монстров как IBM, Facebook, Mastercard и т.д. сразу добавляют солидности тому или иному альту и пипл хавает, но понимают ли вышеуказанные компании о чем идет речь это большой вопрос, а еще бòльший вопрос в том, если они понимают не постараются ли они задержать развитие всего направления отвлекающимим маневрами и поддержкой никуда не ведущих идей.
Ведь если посмотреть на развитие битка за 10 лет и сравнить его, к примеру, с развитием интернета за тот же отрезок времени, можно сказать что биток и все его альты просто топчутся на месте.
К вопросу о том будут ли еще иксы на альтах, думаю что будут, но конечно не на всех.
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All the technological innovation you mentioned had a purpose and was widely used by people.
The purpose of BTC is not clear and it's used by a very small group of individuals, so it's difficult improve something that's is difficult to explain what it's useful for.
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Bitcoin will never die and the more people pronounce it dead, the stronger the adoption of bitcoin becomes.
Agreed, but of course some new technology may make BTC obsolete, from inside or outside the cryptoworld. |
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I was thinking about how we can provide the proof that PoB is convenient and I went up with an idea.
The data that is verifiable independently from our wish is the following:
- the quantity of coins ever invested into PoB (decayed or not),
- the whole quantity of coins produced so far,
- the quantity of coins produced per block,
- the number of blocks reserved for mining,
- the number of blocks reserved for PoS,
- the number of blocks reserved for PoB.
So we can calculate how much coins where produced so far with PoB. And since we know how many coins where invested into PoB we can calculate the exact average ROI of PoB.
If this formula works we can calculate the ROI of PoB for whatever time span we need to and it will be verifiable by everyone.
As with any investment we can't calculate the future, but at least we'll be probably able to tell exactly how the things went in the past.
Anybody thinks it can work? :-)
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Take into account that the ROI depends on how many PoB-minters are currently minting (the more, the lower is your reward).
Some weeks ago, ROI seems to have been much lower (about 1 year to break-even). I haven't PoB'd for some months now, so I can't provide numbers here.
What I was trying to do is to advertise the advantages of PoB as it is now. If the information provided by @caspar77 is accurate PoB should be very profitable with a ridiculous collateral to put into. But to be precise we'd need to provide a tool for investors something like whattomine in order them to see how much they need to invest and what ROI they should expect. Of course I wouldn't like to advertise something which is not, so maybe we'd need to make some test or to recover the statistics that everybody can verify by himself. |
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Maybe you can just remain generic on the signature, something like just "high ROI"?
If you consider the average of the quantities mentioned by @casper77 we are speaking about 65 coins/day which is 237%/y so, even if we hypothesise the decay around 100%/y, the ROI, i.e. the difference between the coin produced and decayed, is still very high, 137%. This is comparable to the masternode's ROI and is much higher than BTC mining ROI if expressed in BTC, not to mention the % you can receive putting your fiat in bank.
Then maybe we can say "Proof of Burn: virtual mining - high ROI, low initial investment" |
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I don't think we'll see ATH of BTC this year, but it may happen in the 2020.
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Generally speaking BTC should rise during the crises.
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I think the altcoins with a good potential will go on growing.
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i have 10K POB effective burnt coins and i have from 30 to 100 coins per day
i dont know from what that difference depends of
It probably depends on a causality sequence used in PoB algorithm but if you consider let say one month or one year span you'll probably see the stable average. Should it be just 30 SLM/day your annual ROI would be 109% which is huge compared to masternode's ROI to not to speak about Bitcoin mining. But if the average is for instance 65 SLM/day your ROI is just fabulous. And the minimum investment is quite small, 10K is just 8$ considering the market prices. I think it's an interesting basis to begin advertising SLM in terms of profits. yes, but should remember that "effective burnt coins" decreases over time and you must regularly burn if you want to always have 10K something like asic's depreciation of equipment So the actual ROI should be the difference between produced coins and decayed ones. In such case we need to understand how much coins are being decayed over time. |
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i have 10K POB effective burnt coins and i have from 30 to 100 coins per day
i dont know from what that difference depends of
It probably depends on a causality sequence used in PoB algorithm but if you consider let say one month or one year span you'll probably see the stable average. Should it be just 30 SLM/day your annual ROI would be 109% which is huge compared to masternode's ROI to not to speak about Bitcoin mining. But if the average is for instance 65 SLM/day your ROI is just fabulous. And the minimum investment is quite small, 10K is just 8$ considering the market prices. I think it's an interesting basis to begin advertising SLM in terms of profits. yes, but should remember that "effective burnt coins" decreases over time and you must regularly burn if you want to always have 10K something like asic's depreciation of equipment Good point. I have to think it over better in order our advertising message to be as near as possible to the reality. |
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i have 10K POB effective burnt coins and i have from 30 to 100 coins per day
i dont know from what that difference depends of
It probably depends on a causality sequence used in PoB algorithm but if you consider let say one month or one year span you'll probably see the stable average. Should it be just 30 SLM/day your annual ROI would be 109% which is huge compared to masternode's ROI to not to speak about Bitcoin mining. But if the average is for instance 65 SLM/day your ROI is just fabulous. And the minimum investment is quite small, 10K is just 8$ considering the market prices. I think it's an interesting basis to begin advertising SLM in terms of profits. |
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Is there any kind of estimate to see the ROI for PoB?
I'm not that much informed about the mechanism of PoB, but I remember that slimcoind releases the info about how much of SLM where invested into PoB. Should it be possible to retrieve the info about the SLMs decayed we'd have the exact number of SLMs used to mine at that moment. Regardless of any casual sequence used to produce the new SLM using PoB statistically speaking their number should be distributed proportionally between the miners in the long run. That could probably give us a tool to estimate the ROI of PoB, thus to build an attractive advertising model. |
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Have a look into the fees of Bitstamp, for instance, here if you are not buying with credit card the fees are much more convenient than 7%. If not you can try Localbitcoins as well. I also agree with the opinion expressed by many people here, that generally speaking crypto should be a very good investment, if we consider profits that were possible over time in the past. But please keep in mind that the future profits are never guaranteed, so the past is the past and the future is the future. Another aspect is what you are investing into. Non every crypto-currency is a good investment. So please do very well your home work and never invest more than you can afford to lose (you probably already know these principles). Having said that I personally believe that the crypto is a very good investment compared to fiat. |
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Банки точно не уйдут в прошлое, потому что за ними стоят очень большие деньги. Это не выгодно ни государству, которое получает от них огромнейшие налоги, ни банкам и тем, кто за ними стоят. Но выход есть. Банки будут интегрировать криптовалюту и работать с ней как и с обычным фиатом, только на других принципах.
По комиссиям даже нету смысла тягаться. Вот только как бы крипта не развивалась, она не сможет в ближайшие лет 10 точно занять даже 50% тех оборотов, которые сейчас происходят в фиате.
Согласен с Вашей мыслью. Банки и крипта две разные вещи и банки никогда никуда не исчезнут. Часто пишут что какие-то банки или фирмы начали использовать технологию блокчейн, но как они начали ее использовать, начали ли они это действительно делать и насколько они вообще понимают о чем идет речь никто не знает. Но самое главное, при использования казалось бы прогрессивной технологии блокчейн никакого очевидного прорыва ни в какой области не происходит. Поэтому вероятно применение крипты должно быть другим нежели то, о котором все говорят. |
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