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281  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 19, 2018, 12:47:36 PM
What is being taught in that law that a muslim should not engage is gambling. Bitcoin is a currency and at the same time it is like a commodity like gold and thus it cannot be considered gambling.
why would you even say that? i mean it is so irrelevant here. bitcoin is obviously a currency and even if some groups don't see it as a currency they will see it as some sort of investment (a commodity for instance) but i do not believe there is anyone in the whole world who even thinks bitcoin is gambling!!!
I try to clarify, please read carefully. he means, bitcoin is the same as currency. even the same as you are talking about, that bitcoin can be used as a commodity. and what he learns that gambling is not allowed, so he does not use bitcoin to gamble.
282  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 19, 2018, 11:57:26 AM
why you guys always bring religion into anything?  especially when you have 4/5 different paths called MAZHAB and always your Leaders (Imams) are just opposing each other?
Bitcoin is very universal, believe me, it's not about religion, but about how we treat Bitcoin widely. I do not intend to make a conflict, I just want to find a clarity, especially for some people who still have a narrow view of Bitcoin. so I hope you do not direct the conversation on things that can make a mess. create an opinion and constructive feedback, and can help people think positively about Bitcoin. if anyone has a different view, then cherish him.
283  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 19, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
I think it's very interesting to get the Islamic perspective on Bitcoin and like everything, it all depends what Bitcoin is used for also. If you are lending out Bitcoin to earn interest, then it becomes a haram act, but if you are lending out Bitcoin to someone doing business and you earn a profit share in that business, then it becomes halal. So I think everything even with Bitcoin is not black and white. Everything comes from intention, positive or negative but Bitcoin seems more halal to me than paper money as it has a limited supply, like gold and it's not inflationary.  Smiley
"if you lend Bitcoin to someone who does business and you get a share of the profits in that business, then it becomes lawful/halal". <- this is called shari'a. Investing in a business. then get the revenue share.
all back to the intentions and how we use them

Great stuff guys! Good to know for anyone, muslim or not.
thank you for taking the time to write here. Bitcoin for all walks, for all religions, for all races, for all nations, for all humans. not discriminating. but in managing what he has, it becomes his right to believe in him. not to blame or to judge.

I can say that bitcoin is completely halal because when we store bitcoin in a wallet, the amount of bitcoin we store does not increase and does not decrease then bitcoin free from 'riba'. Different when we save money in the bank, then every month the money we save in the bank will experience the addition or reduction that they call the 'interest rate'. But, the legal bitcoin can be haram when we use bitcoin for things that are not allowed by Islam such as gambling.
so we agree, not Bitcoin that is the problem, but how to use it that makes in halal or haram.
284  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 19, 2018, 11:28:41 AM
Related to hot news halal and haram bitcoin or other virtual currency. I have no opinion or fatwa to accuse. As for my thoughts, like a knife, if used to cook he has a law of halal. but if used to act crime then he entered the law haram.

Try to think, halal and haram the knife. not the knife that has the nature of halal or haram. but the behavior of people who use that. so anyway we treat bitcoin and use cryptocurrency like what. that is what determines halal or haram in the eyes of god.

About Shari'a. in cryptocurrency knows no hidden costs. in contrast to bank loans either government or private. they always have hidden costs and tricks. this is called usury. inside bitcoin and aother cryptocurrency does not exist.
I agree with you, the most I underline is usury. for me:
- far from usury
- Not Relying On Fortune (Gambling)
- Unclear transactions (Gharar), this means, when economic transactions must be ensured in advance the type, quantity, quality, condition of goods or economic products so that no one mutually harmed.
- Accountable; meaning transparent. Thus, in the future, although the problem will be clear and there will be no accusation because of unrecorded transaction issues.
I think Bitcoin with its Blockchain already has an accountable element, the rest depends on who uses it.

285  Economy / Economics / Re: The best way to manage free money on: April 18, 2018, 04:25:15 PM
I believe, that most a reliable - this gold! Invest in something that will not go away! Cryptocurrencies are most likely our future, but maybe they will collapse one day. It is difficult to give assurances on something intangible..
it's a good thought, and safe. but I believe bitcoin and crypto others can provide greater benefits. and the business model in bitcoin is not just one, not only trading market, we can lending, can also trade gold by using bitcoin, and many more.
For me as a newbie member of this campaign I  can say that if 'free' so many can do things especially  you have more plans on how to invest or manage the money.Since I know
few things about bitcoin. We can invest here to gain more profit and be suitable to earn money for better,because time will come that we investors can benefit on this.
thank you, honestly I far feel more new in terms of investment world, my goal to make this topic is to know and learn a lot from fellow members. I still believe to this day, that bitcoin and other crypto currencies will continue to grow and develop in the future. then I still entrust some of my investment in crypto currency. especially bitcoin.
286  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 18, 2018, 03:54:14 PM
bitcoin is a currency (asset class currency) and not a gambling token(poker chip)

so bitcoin is halal, as is the dollar a currency and not a gambling chip so the dollar is halal

the confusion comes when governments say that bitcoin is not recognised as money. but the same goes for the dollar
you cannot pay national taxes in sharia countries using the dollar.
you cannot pay court fines in sharia countries using the dollar.

this is not about halal or haram. this is about the legal tender.
only the national currency of the country is legal tender of that country. this does not mean other currencies are then haram. it just means its not a nations national currency.

so relax. a nation not accepting a currency to pay fines/taxes does not make a currency haram.

i emboldened and enlarged the most important thing the OP wrote
Quote
National Law Supersedes Shariah Permissibility
Although Bitcoin’s properties and increasingly wide acceptance qualify it as Islamically permissible “customary money”, Bitcoin is not permissible as money in jurisdictions where government law or mandate forbids Bitcoin or prohibits Bitcoin’s use in payments.

The Republic of Indonesia issued clarification in January 2018 that all payments within Indonesia must be in Indonesian Rupiah, and therefore Bitcoin is not allowed to be used for payments. However, this clarification should not be seen as an anti-bitcoin stance - the same legal tender laws in Indonesia also forbid gold, silver, US Dollars, and Euros. It remains legal to buy and sell Bitcoin in Indonesia.

very reasonable, our way of thinking is actually the same, for me as a Muslim, Bitcoin is just a tool, just like when we want to exchange an item, a car can I exchange with a small house, and become legitimate if mutually agree, values ​​that are considered worth it, and feel nothing is mutually harmed. this means, if bitcoin has value, and someone wants to have it, then he offers something that can interest me, then agree to exchange it. then there is nothing unlawful in the dilamnya.
it's just that there are some who think differently from us, then I hope there is something clear to get them from this thread. thanks for sharing oponi here
287  Local / Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) / Re: [INFO] Konferensi "BlockJakarta: Indonesia's Blockchain Capability Conference" on: April 17, 2018, 09:22:53 PM
makasih banget infonya, ini big news, melihat daftar yang bakal hadir dan jadi speaker sepertinya bakal rame, pengen ikut. Semoga hasilnya positif untuk kemajuan dunia kripto di Negara kita.


Quote
Conference Agenda Includes view session and speaker details :
-Blockchain in Indonesia & the Growing Community
-Banking with Blockchain Technology
​​-NexGen Innovation: Blockchain + AI
-Government Outlook on Blockchain & Regulatory Framework
-The Future of Blockchain - Looking Beyond
​-Integrating SupplyChain, Retail, Healthcare
-Blockchain for Mainstream Consumers
-Exchange of Perpetuity​

ngomong-ngomong ini terbuka untuk umum ga ya. kayaknya menarik.
288  Local / Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) / Re: Akses Facebook terancam ditutup di Indonesia on: April 17, 2018, 08:52:17 PM
Ternyata aku yang kuper, baru tau berita ini, malah baru tau juga kalo ada rame-rame di "rumah kostum safari". Menurutku sih kalo cuma aksesnya yang ditutup, tidak akan banyak berpengaruh, teman-teman di Indonesia terlalu pintar untuk mencari celah, tapi kalo sudah akunnya yang di tutup untuk pengguna Indonesia, ini baru repot, Startup pun akan membatasi kepesertaan dari negara kita. Apapun yang terjadi, saya mah ngikut apa kata pemerintah.
289  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 17, 2018, 01:54:31 PM
I am a Muslim and do not understand Islamic syariat in depth. before I know bitcoin I invest and trading FOREX and a friend introduce me with bitcoin and trading bitcoin and altcoin here I can say bitcoin halal karna from transaction aspect no usury and fund which we ivetasikan can not be lost and burned because the price reduction as FOREX
your point of view is simple, and I agree, I also do not know too much about sharia law related to economics, so let's learn together here, this topic we make a tool to learn more by reading the views of friends who comment.

Bitcoin is in accord to the Shariah Law. What is being taught in that law that a muslim should not engage is gambling. Bitcoin is a currency and at the same time it is like a commodity like gold and thus it cannot be considered gambling. Some muslim scholars have already have this viewpoint and said that bitcoin is healthy to be used by the Muslim community.
this means there is nothing illegal from all means of payment, either bitcoin or crypto, goods used for barter, or money of a country. which makes it illegal is a way of usage, and becomes evil by its use. if I do not misunderstand your point, then this becomes clearer.
290  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: PRINTERIUM (PRX) - COMMUNITY TAKEOVER on: April 17, 2018, 01:45:41 PM
POW/POS | SCRYPT
60 seconds per block
Supply after pow: ~20M
Interest: 50% per year
RPC port   10322
P2P port   10321
Coinbase maturity   20 blocks
Transaction confirmations   6 blocks
Premine   11%

(10% premine will be used as rewards for uploading STL Files/3D Printer Files/3D Printer Models.)

POW
100 PRX coins per block
200 000 blocks (POW)

POS
50% p.a.
8 hours min. stake age
max stake age unlimited

in fact all coins have the potential to dominate the market, but the consistency of teams in developing and marketing coins, always a problem on the coins that are born first and destroyed in the middle of the road. hopefully this does not happen to PRINTERIUM
291  Economy / Economics / Re: The best way to manage free money on: April 17, 2018, 01:07:52 PM
I believe, that most a reliable - this gold! Invest in something that will not go away! Cryptocurrencies are most likely our future, but maybe they will collapse one day. It is difficult to give assurances on something intangible..
it's a good thought, and safe. but I believe bitcoin and crypto others can provide greater benefits. and the business model in bitcoin is not just one, not only trading market, we can lending, can also trade gold by using bitcoin, and many more.
292  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis on: April 16, 2018, 11:09:28 PM
Is Bitcoin Halal or Haram: A Shariah Analysis
JAKARTA, Indonesia. - April 10, 2018 - As fluctuations and volatility continue to rock the cryptocurrency world, Blossom Finance has commissioned and released a working paper exploring the Islamic permissibility of bitcoin, cryptocurrency, and blockchain. The paper concludes that Bitcoin fully meets the definition of Islamic money under certain conditions and is generally permissible under Shariah. Blossom’s research also includes analysis of various legal opinions (fatawah) issued by prominent Islamic scholars on the topic. The research and development of the working paper was led by Mufti Muhammad Abu Bakar - Blossom’s internal Shariah advisor and Shariah compliance officer.

Clarity Needed: Is Bitcoin halal or haram?
Although interest, investment, and speculation in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency have continued to rocket upward, there remains growing confusion amongst Muslims - which make up nearly a quarter of the world’s population - as to whether Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies comply with Shariah law. Shariah law is a set of rules followed by Muslims in accordance with the guidelines of the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

The Islamic finance sector, which offers financial products to Muslim individuals and Islamic institutions, adheres to Shariah law - clear understanding of cryptocurrency and blockchain continue to grow in importance as practitioners increasingly recognize that blockchain will transform every area of the global financial system in much the same way the internet transformed media and publishing.

Quote
“Contrary to popular myth, Shariah law is not single set of rules; it’s is a scholarly field subject to differing interpretations and opinions on various matters. Several recent fatawah issued by prominent Muslim scholars offered incomplete or contradictory opinions on the topic. With all the confusion out there, we wanted to offer clear guidance supported by solid research that benefits both laypeople and practitioners of Islamic finance” said Matthew J. Martin, CEO of Blossom Finance.

A fatwah (plural: fatawah) is a legal opinion issued by a Muslim scholar that expresses opinions, advice, and/or rulings on a certain topic.

Quote
“I’ve had so many people ask me ‘Is Bitcoin halal or haram?’, and the honest answer is ‘it depends’. Bitcoin is not just a currency, but it’s also a transaction and payment network. And blockchain itself is a whole category of technology with wide ranging applications” said Blossom CEO Matthew J. Martin.

Bitcoin Qualifies As Islamic Money
Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies fulfill the economic roles of money - acting as medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of value - and also gain status as Islamic money by being “customary money”. Shariah recognizes customary money as being anything that gains monetary status through wide acceptance in society or by government mandate.

In Germany, Bitcoin is recognized as a legal currency and therefore qualifies as Islamic money in Germany. In countries such as the US, Bitcoin lacks official legal monetary status but is accepted for payment at a variety of merchants, and therefore qualifies as Islamic customary money.

Rulings by Islamic scholars that claim Bitcoin is not permissible because it is subject to fluctuation and/or has the potential for use in illegal activities are not valid reasons under Shariah, since these factors are external to Bitcoin: the price of bitcoin is subject to supply and demand, just like commodities and fiat currencies, and the use of any lawful thing for an unlawful purpose cannot not make the thing itself unlawful.

National Law Supersedes Shariah Permissibility
Although Bitcoin’s properties and increasingly wide acceptance qualify it as Islamically permissible “customary money”, Bitcoin is not permissible as money in jurisdictions where government law or mandate forbids Bitcoin or prohibits Bitcoin’s use in payments.

The Republic of Indonesia issued clarification in January 2018 that all payments within Indonesia must be in Indonesian Rupiah, and therefore Bitcoin is not allowed to be used for payments. However, this clarification should not be seen as an anti-bitcoin stance - the same legal tender laws in Indonesia also forbid gold, silver, US Dollars, and Euros. It remains legal to buy and sell Bitcoin in Indonesia.

Volatility and Unclear “ICO”s Highly Uncertain, Not Advised
One of the key goals of Shariah is preservation and protection of wealth. Cryptocurrency markets also remain highly volatile. All investors should exercise extreme caution and never invest more money than they are willing and able to lose.

ICOs, or initial coin offerings, often lack clarity on: a) what are investors actually buying, and b) what are the investors’ rights. Many such offerings likely fall afoul of having gharar, meaning, excessive uncertainty, and therefore do not qualify as permissible Islamic investments.

Bitcoin/Blockchain Shares Core Principles With Shariah
Despite price volatility, Bitcoin’s underlying blockchain technology is highly aligned with the Shariah goal of reducing excessive uncertainty as well as the Shariah prohibition against fractional reserve banking. Its immediate primary application remains in payments and for exchange.

Quote
“Blockchain proves ownership of the asset - it proves you actually have the money you’re sending in a transaction. Conventional banking literally loans money into existence, and that is completely incompatible with the Shariah principles of money” said Blossom CEO Matthew J. Martin
referring to the Shariah rules of money that require all money to be exchanged “hand to hand” and never on a fractional reserve basis, as is the norm in the conventional (non-Islamic) global banking system.

Quote
“Blockchain gives you mathematical proof of ownership and that’s overall much more in line with the spirit of Islamic finance than any digital fiat money.”

source : https://blossomfinance.com/press/is-bitcoin-halal-or-haram-a-shariah-analysis
get used to reading carefully before writing a comment. if necessary read thoroughly to study it.
293  Local / Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) / Re: Berita Baik Nih.. (Jangan Baca2 Berita Buruk Mulu) on: April 16, 2018, 04:42:16 PM
Ini baru berita baik, saya ketinggalan, tapi saya suka thread ini, ini akan menjadi spirit baru untuk para pemangku blockchain di Asia, termasuk negara kita Indonesia. Sehingga bisa mendapat perhatian lebih dari pemerintah untuk mengkaji ulang dalam melegalkan Bitcoin.
294  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: I do not believe ico anymore on: April 16, 2018, 10:14:52 AM
you fail on the three ICOs as an investor, but you blame all the ICO, I think it's unfair, scam investment is not just happening in crypto, even many products beyond crypto scam, I think you should be wiser in following the crowdsale program a startup, you should learn many things first about the startup, before you make the decision to invest your funds. starting from how realistic the product they are launching, then the team working on it, you can search from many sources, learn also their partnership, then allocate the budget they target, appeal to the product they are developing, whether appropriate. and many more supporting factors that we must learn. I believe if you do the things I mentioned, you will not be stuck on ICOs that are only based on promises of exorbitant highs.
In fact, many ICOs are successful, and their products survive to this day, even token promised to investors is also stable and at the top. at least above the ICO price. some examples of those who are successful, some even not until softcap, but still growing :
even the Etheraum you know today, he was born from ICO - Project 2014 year, collecting 18.5 million dollars. Cryptomoneta Eter, reaching $ 400 per unit 1, bringing its depositors millions of dollars
the newer, Bancor - Launch 06.2017 and accumulate a total investment of 150 million dollars, and you can see for yourself how the current growing bancor
POS Token also became one of the newest, successful in ICO, and continues to grow to this day.
MyWish this one does not even reach softcap, but they keep launching their products, and keep working consistently to develop their projects. and many other projects that I did not mention, and I do not know, where the successful investors reap huge profits
295  Economy / Economics / Re: The best way to manage free money on: April 16, 2018, 08:49:16 AM
the most ideal approach to oversee free cash is by sparing it and spend some cash that you really realize that you require it, or it will be valuable. I know some individual that spend excessively cash, however his acquiring is so extremely pitiful that in the wake of getting is a wage, it will keep going for 2-3 days. So I encourage him to spare some cash and don't get some garbage stuff that will be your next waste accumulation. Indeed, even it's free cash, a propensity for sparing or keeping some cash so that later on you have some cash to spend in the event of crisis.
you are very wise, thanks for the advice, this means a lot to me. actually before making this topic, I've been considering a lot of things. including what you are talking about. so, in fact I've for all based on need, including for entertainment. and indeed I allocate specifically to develop the funds I earn, in order to grow. not necessarily large, but sustainable.

Pitiful to state however I truly can't disclose to you what might be the best decision since we are not in a similar circumstance or have the same budgetary status or life. This implies we won't have the capacity to have a similar learning about anything and similar assets for venture and this will have the effect on how we will see such speculation alternatives. The best strategy I can encourage however is to investigate your way of life, your money related status and your mastery in any field. Think about all these and include them all up so you can get a grip on where you are great at and where you can be more profitable. This at that point will enable you to settle on the correct choice and let you pick what is the best speculation design will fit your present status as far as monetary ability.
I'm talking about $ 50k, not a lot of money for big business capital. I got this money from the bounty of ICO some startup, not as an investor, but bounty participants. when creating this thread, I feel not very good at trading on the market exchange, either bitcoin or altcoin, I've learned a lot about trading materials, but it does not make me proficient, because I am not able to harmonize between science and emotional control. I've also tried scalping, but often stuck in price movements, and I'm not mentally strong. indeed my accumulated no loss, but but I feel depressed mentally. for that reason, I feel a lot of input from my friends in this forum, to get the best alternative in managing money.
296  Economy / Speculation / Re: I will not Die Untill Bitcoin will reach at Least 50K on: April 16, 2018, 07:21:56 AM
this thread was already long made. so many have made predictions. and bitcoin prices are soaring, although not yet touched $ 50,000. but this is very possible, my logic is very simple, the number of bitcoin is limited, only 21.000.000, the mining process goes on, bitcoin users always grow from year to year. with a limited number, while more and more are looking for it, then bitcoin will be increasingly hard to find, automatically if the rare items then the price will be more expensive.
297  Economy / Economics / Re: The best way to manage free money on: April 16, 2018, 07:05:22 AM
For me the best way is deposit it at banks for savings and if have enough invest for a property like a house or any properties that has good value. But it always depend in an individual because we all have different perspective. Think the best that suit you, everything you mentioned are good choice.
yes I agree with your opinion, maybe by buying a useful item is the best way to manage free money like investing including things that are useful for the future.

I think the best way to manage free money is to buy some useful things to buy a house and buy land in strategic places, both of which will be an investment of future happiness.

thank you for your opinion, I have done this, but only for backup, I only allocate $ 10 000 out of total $ 50 000, the rest I turn in crypto, the consideration is bank deposits that I can get in Indonesia maximum only 5.8% gross). this has been the maximum count. while in crypto like Bitcoin, ETH, and Altcoin others, we can get more, please check my posts on the previous page.
298  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ethereum vs Bitcoin as goal of investments on: April 15, 2018, 03:50:46 PM
I'm actually hesitant about the Ethereum developer's way of thinking, but if you look at the current movement and volume of transactions, I believe ethereum has the same chance to compete with Bitcoin.

try to see the following ETH supply

ETHER DISTRIBUTION OVERVIEW
Genesis (60M Crowdsale+12M Other):   72,009,990.50 Ether
+ Mining Block Rewards:   25,149,647.53 Ether
+ Mining Uncle Rewards:   1,677,069.13 Ether
= Current Total Supply
98,836,707.16 Ether
Data Source: Total Eth Supply API


 PRICE PER ETHER
In USD:   $524.84
In BTC:   0.06321
Data Source: CryptoCompare


299  Economy / Economics / Re: The best way to manage free money on: April 15, 2018, 03:29:46 PM

Mining is good but you need a huge capital in order to start operating your mining machine. For me I will prefer to hold it in my wallet and wait for the right time to sell but if I have much money for capital I will prefer mining because it gives huge profit.
I agree hough you need a large amount of capital for your computer rigs but once you start mining the ROI will not take too long vand it mining doesnt need much time as ling as your ventilation is cool everything may go in order
We do have different perspective in terms of mining if you are the type of person who are good in setting up computer then it would be an advantage for you to go mining but if your are not then just find ways and I would advice trading in short term basis.
actually I am interested in becoming a miner, but I feel not ready, because I am not too smart about computer technology, I am also blind about VGA or rigs, and I am worried about the price of electricity is so high in Indonesia, I also have to think about the electrical installation and CPU, as well as the equipment I use, plus I have to think about the day-to-day maintenance, setting up a place to mine, and it's not cheap.
but I am grateful for the advice you have given. I will remember this, sometime if I feel ready to become a miner, I will contact you to learn more.
300  Economy / Economics / Re: The best way to manage free money on: April 15, 2018, 03:15:21 PM
Financial management is actually in us that can control it. because now our finance depends on our own who manage to get a profit or investment. do not lust and there are sizes and limits
I also think that it totally depends upon the person, as far as I know getting free money is different from working hard to get it because once you work hard to earn money you tend to take care of it and you don't easily want to spend it to useless things you try to comprehend your priorities to be able to know which of it is you're going to put first when it comes to spending. But when it comes to free money you always tend to use it for your self as a reward or something for the things you've been working on your life.
this money I get by working as a bounty participant, I make an article, then I have to disseminate, I have to help promote projects that I follow, sometimes I also have to help build local communities, and help the team to explain their mission vision, which I feel is the thing that drains the mind, sometimes I also feel tired. and this is what I can do right now, I work hard to get the right rewards.
And I made this topic, to get a lot of feedback from all of you, so I did not waste my money. and hopefully others will be able to take the positive side, and get the same thing in terms of defending their money.
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