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2801  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Anyone here have some strategy to gain money, but with low profits daily? on: July 29, 2019, 08:11:58 PM
Some example, you deposit 100 USD, you use martingale method to gain at least 1 dollar (1%) and you stop, and do the same the day after

This is just a random example I made right now, but I want to see if there's someone who try to use a strategy to gain very small profits daily instead of trying with big bets

And guys, I know there's no 100% strategy, it's just curiosity

You could in fact use martingale for that

But your profits won't be anywhere close to 1% daily. If you really want to bet on the safe side with martingale, your profits will be infinitesimal. If we take into account the limits imposed by the casino (like the max bet amount and intervals between bets when autobetting), you will be earning around one millionth of your deposit amount (for example, by using doges). It is really not worth it
2802  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why $13,000 was unsustainable. on: July 29, 2019, 05:50:32 PM
The most important data you are missing here is that the number of bitcoins that is being sold in the open market that is being created by the miners, i bet you will not find any, so these sort of calculation does not give you anything substantial data when it comes to the market price of bitcoin.
The price of bitcoin does not have any relation with the production or mining cost of bitcoin, the only reason why the price of bitcoin was not sustainable above $13k would be that the price will not shoot up all the time and you need to have a correction to have a sustained growth  Tongue.

So miners pay electricity, facilities, and equipment in order to not sell a product. Do car manufactures make their cars and keep them from being sold on the market?

Completely illogical

As always, the devil is in paying precious attention to detail

Do cars appreciate over time? I'd rather say no unless you have to wait like 50 years till some exclusive models obtain real value. This is definitely not what car manufacturers want. But is it the same with miners? Again, I should say no as bitcoins do tend to appreciate over time and in less than 50 years, so it does actually make sense to keep at least some of the reward and not sell it in its entirety. Long story short, your analogy is heavily flawed, up to a point where it stops being an analogy at all
2803  Economy / Speculation / Re: Calm down. on: July 29, 2019, 04:51:34 PM
Short term traders will really be the one mainly affected because profitability and loss does matter even on the slightest movement or swing on prices.

But eventually where they are more riskier than holders but when it comes to profits they are the ones who do have much better chance to make money on shorter terms.

Calming down on dumping prices? Easy to say but when you are on the situation it wont really be that simple

It really depends which side of the trade you are on

If you are massively shorting, then falling prices will be a godsend for you. But that's the whole approach to short-term trading as you ride the wave irrespective of its direction, either on the way up or on the way down. So it is not like short-term traders specifically who should be complaining as all they need to make profits is nice price swings and solid volatility (pardon the oxymoron). And we have had enough of those recently to make short-term traders happy. It is a flat market which makes them anxious and nervous, embarrassed and frustrated
2804  Economy / Economics / Re: There were only 3,3% of days In Bitcoin's History That Were Not Profitable on: July 29, 2019, 09:24:38 AM
-snip
That still doesn't account for 129 losing days. In fact, it can be useful but we need to know the methodology used in order to make something tangible out of this information

I'm not sure, but I think he might have looked over the historical data and counted the days when Bitcoin's (day average?) price was lower than it is now, meaning he found a grand total of 129 days that fit that criteria

You likely meant to say higher, right?

That is, there are (were) only 129 or so days when today's price was lower than in those days. Obviously, that refers to the period of the recent spike to nearly 14k as well as the period in November through December of 2017. But this is a ridiculous approach since somewhere near the end of 2017 it could be said that Bitcoin had been profitable throughout its entire lifetime (up to that date)

It's probably something like this tweet, which gained a fair amount of attention:

You made money if you bought Bitcoin and held it until today in 122 of the 125 months that Bitcoin has been available

This train of reasoning is not far from suggesting to ride a time machine and get back to 2010 in order to buy up thousands of bitcoins for pennies
2805  Economy / Economics / Re: There were only 3,3% of days In Bitcoin's History That Were Not Profitable on: July 29, 2019, 07:22:23 AM
How to calculate, simple, 129 days out from 3857 days is aproximetly 3,33%

Yes, we got it

But how did you get 129 days which were not profitable for Bitcoin? Bitcoin had been sliding down since January 2018 till February 2019, i.e. for more than a year. The way you put it implies that your base period (on which you calculate the financial outcome) is one day. But in that case Bitcoin has seen more losing days than profitable ones simply because price typically rises fast (actually, extremely fast) and then spirals down excruciatingly slow, like for weeks and months (and in a couple of cases, for years)

It's meaningless because all it's essentially saying is that we're better off today than most of Bitcoin's days. It's reassuring and puts the current situation into perspective, but then what? What can we do with that tidbit of information?

That still doesn't account for 129 losing days. In fact, it can be useful but we need to know the methodology used in order to make something tangible out of this information
2806  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There Is No War Against Bitcoin! Stop The Fud! on: July 29, 2019, 06:41:40 AM
I see many users talking about how USA government and Trump declared a war against Bitcoin! No, they didn't. Listen their message again! They declared a war against the criminals who are using bitcoin for illegal activities. A huge difference!

It doesn't mean anything

They can use a whole arsenal of indirect methods to hurt Bitcoin if they really wanted to (and they do). Obviously, fighting Bitcoin directly may be counterproductive (it's like banning the law of gravity), but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about their real intentions. In short, if they can kill Bitcoin, they will do it without thinking twice, ever, as it is a competitor to the dollar hegemony (what your post is about). In this manner, a war against criminals using bitcoin for illegal activities is in fact a war against Bitcoin itself

This is true. But if the Trump Administration can add 25% tariff on China and other idiocy, there is nothing to say they could not ban all exchanges in the USA or other methods an attempt to kill bitcoin

Let's just hope that Trump gets kicked out from the White House in 2020

Regarding using the IRS to reshuffle old tax payments, isn't there a 3-year limit within which they can do that? Or it depends on the kind of income and the reason for rechecking, like money laundering or whatever? I don't know as I don't live in the US but I remember reading something like this. For example, in Russia any income not taxed within 3 years basically becomes tax-exempt due to the tax limitation period
2807  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The Gambler's Fallacy (The key to unbiased gambling) on: July 28, 2019, 10:34:21 PM
So if you got already 2heads you have 3chances on 4 to get one tail in the next 2 flips.

HHHH
HHHT
HHTH
HHTT

In the next 2 flips your chances to get 1 tail are the same as to get 1 head and equal to 0.5. You have 4 possible outcomes with 2 of them having 1 tail - HT, TH (the other two being HH and TT). The outcome TT has 2 tails, while its probability is the same as for 2 heads (HH) and equal to 0.25. In other words, 2 tails is a different outcome than 1 tail in 2 flips. Basically, you are trying to exploit the tendency or weakness of human beings to answer a similar but different question, i.e. not the one asked (an easier one, for the record)

You may want to try again
  Huh I'm sorry but the question is about gambling here, so I don't know which question you're trying to reply to but there is no reason to eliminate TT here (eliminate by who BTW?) since it's a valid outcome

Okay, I will try to explain

If you don't eliminate TT, then the correct proposition should be as follows: with 2 flips we have 3 chances out of 4 to get 1 or 2 tails, which would match sequences HT, TH, and TT. Put differently, getting exactly 1 tail is not the same as getting 2 tails with 2 flips. 2 tails in 2 flips violate the proposition of only 1 tail in 2 flips

And while we are at it, it is the same with heads, i.e. 3 chances out of 4 to get 1 or 2 heads, which is HT, TH, and HH. It may look like we have total odds exceeding 1 but that's because sequences HT and TH match both propositions (i.e. they are not mutually exclusive). In simple terms, in this case you can't sum up probabilities
2808  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The Gambler's Fallacy (The key to unbiased gambling) on: July 28, 2019, 08:58:31 PM
So if you got already 2heads you have 3chances on 4 to get one tail in the next 2 flips.

HHHH
HHHT
HHTH
HHTT

In the next 2 flips your chances to get 1 tail are the same as to get 1 head and equal to 0.5. You have 4 possible outcomes with 2 of them having 1 tail - HT, TH (the other two being HH and TT). The outcome TT has 2 tails, while its probability is the same as for 2 heads (HH) and equal to 0.25. In other words, 2 tails is a different outcome than 1 tail in 2 flips. Basically, you are trying to exploit the tendency or weakness of human beings to answer a similar but different question, i.e. not the one asked (an easier one, for the record)

You may want to try again

I disagree with that if you bet 20times on the same side and you lose, the odds are not the same for the next flip (if the flips are really random).
It doesn't mean you'll have 100% chances to win but you'll have more than 50% chances to win

You will have a hard time to prove that unless you implicitly assume the outcomes are not independent while the odds are changing in the process
2809  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The Gambler's Fallacy (The key to unbiased gambling) on: July 28, 2019, 07:01:03 PM
So are you sure HTHTHTHTHT is not more likely to happen than TTTTTTTTTT ? Do you have real statistics about that?

The probabilities are the same

Statistics refer to past data, and technically they can be any, especially if the sample size is small (the infamous law of small numbers). Probabilities, on other hand, refer to future outcomes, i.e. they do not exist for what has already occurred (but they can be obtained from the past data, given a large enough sample). So in terms of probabilities HTHTHTHTHT is as likely as TTTTTTTTTT (or any other combination of heads and tails), at least as long as it is 50/50 for both tails and heads. Simply speaking, it is exactly about mathematics, not actual outcomes (which you seem to imply here by "facts"). Otherwise, the odds are not 50/50. It is an accounting identity of sorts, which you can't possibly get around



I don't understand what this chart means
2810  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There Is No War Against Bitcoin! Stop The Fud! on: July 28, 2019, 06:07:46 PM
I see many users talking about how USA government and Trump declared a war against Bitcoin! No, they didn't. Listen their message again! They declared a war against the criminals who are using bitcoin for illegal activities. A huge difference!

It doesn't mean anything

They can use a whole arsenal of indirect methods to hurt Bitcoin if they really wanted to (and they do). Obviously, fighting Bitcoin directly may be counterproductive (it's like banning the law of gravity), but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about their real intentions. In short, if they can kill Bitcoin, they will do it without thinking twice, ever, as it is a competitor to the dollar hegemony (what your post is about). In this manner, a war against criminals using bitcoin for illegal activities is in fact a war against Bitcoin itself
2811  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The Gambler's Fallacy (The key to unbiased gambling) on: July 28, 2019, 04:38:08 PM
According to the statistics you have more chances to get 5heads and 5tails than getting 0heads and 10tails when you flip 10times a coin. Do you agree with that? Yes or no?

You don't specify one important condition. More specifically, you don't specify the exact order in which we are going to see 5 heads and 5 tails. If we are to see them in an arbitrary order, i.e. just 5 heads and 5 tails in 10 flips, then you are correct. Otherwise, if you actually mean a specific order (like HTHTHTHTHT), then the probability of seeing this sequence is the same as seeing 0 heads and 10 tails in any order (which would always be TTTTTTTTTT, of course) as outcomes are independent of each other. I guess this is the source of your confusion

Or maybe you mean something else
2812  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Craig Wright trying to scare people. on: July 28, 2019, 03:22:18 PM
Talk is cheap, show us the money

I assume that in this case he should first prove that he actually owns so many bitcoins and only then turn to threats of selling them all. Until then, whatever he spits out should be taken with an 800-pound bag of salt as all his words have been just empty threats so far. The longer he reiterates his hogwash, the less weight what he says will have. But personally, I think he is already well past the point where he can still be taken seriously. Long story short, nothing to discuss here

Nobody can trust for the liar like craig wright, I think we need to ignore all he want to tell against bitcoin

What we are dealing with here is an attention whore and drama queen
2813  Economy / Economics / Re: IS THIS HOW USD IS CREATED? on: July 28, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
It can be said that bank loans in the form of a credit card are already collateralized by the borrower's reputation
No, it can't. The borrower's reputation doesn't isn't a tangible asset. Collateral needs to be able to be sold to recuperate losses. A bank can't sell someone else's reputation. If someone launched a stable coin, and claimed it was backed up 1-to-1 with "reputation", they would be laughed off the forum

You say that reputation is not worth anything (in terms of creditability), I say that it is, so let's just agree to disagree. A bank can't sell someone's reputation but it can definitely ruin it

You'd be surprised but I cited this article as early (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1652815.msg17199620#msg17199620) as 2016.
So why have you changed your mind? You quote that article in 2016, and you seem to agree in that post that banks "don't need deposits" to create money. Yet now you seem to think that banks don't create money out of nothing, and all loans are collateralized, which is categorically not true

I didn't in the least change my mind

And even in this very thread I repeat what I have been saying for years here, that banks don't need deposits to create new money. But that doesn't mean that banks create money as they see fit in a completely arbitrary fashion. They create money based on demand for money, i.e. through credit. But since most loans require collateral in one form or another, this newly created money is a collateralized form of money. I could even go as far as to say that reputation is also a form of collateral in this day and age (probably even a better one in certain respects)
2814  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Only a Crime Tool on: July 28, 2019, 10:53:19 AM
Indeed, knives can be used for anything other than being kitchen inventory, including a murder weapon. But you can't ban knives because their home use (other than homicide, obviously) by far exceeds their other uses. Thus it is out of the question as entirely impractical. Further, some varieties are actually banned from possession unless you have a license (e.g. hunting knives and anything looking more like a sword than a knife). On the hand, banning Bitcoin will not have a lot of side effects and unintended consequences apart from a bunch of nerds wining and crying over here and over there. Simply put, banning Bitcoin is not a big deal

Bitcoin has a lot of benefits like transferring money from one country to another in blink of second without consuming any extra third party fee etc.  Banning bitcoin will have a serious impact on economy and whats more better is that due to decentralization, no one can completely ban bitcoin and people will still be able to find the ways to use it

I'm no longer sure about the blink of a second

Nowadays, it is actually more like hours than seconds (let alone a couple blinks). Third party fees are also irrelevant here as miners are that third party anyway, so under these circumstances it is the size of the fee which ultimately counts. But in this department Bitcoin doesn't shine either. Regarding Bitcoin's effect on the economy, it is greatly exaggerated, and if the role of a devil's advocate should be played to perfection, this effect exists only in the minds (read, imagination) of Bitcoin holders. As you can see, banning Bitcoin in its entirety will turn out mostly unnoticed by the wider public
2815  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Only a Crime Tool on: July 28, 2019, 09:24:44 AM

Bitcoin and crypto is not a crime tool. 

1- Anything can be hacked online and not just Bitcoin.
2- Money laundering can also be done with fiat and not just Bitcoin.
3- Bitcoin and local fiat can be used for drugs and other illegal means and we cannot blame only Bitcoin for this purpose

We can conclude that it is the use by the humans which make the Bitcoin good or bad. A good human can use bitcoin in a positive manner and bad human can use it in an evil manner.

These three points are very true. Anything can be used as a criminal tool, depending on the user. It's just that, it's different when it comes to bitcoin, which basically becomes a taboo for ordinary people. Even though there are many benefits that can be obtained, the explanation is very reasonable by the OP.

I can give you an example of a knife and knife can be used to  hurt people but mainly the  knife used to cut the fruits and vegetables so you cannot claim knife to be a bad invention.
Same is the case with bitcoins.  It is used for transferring of money and sale and purchase of goods but few people are using it for the illegal task and business

Well, let me try playing a devil's advocate here

Indeed, knives can be used for anything other than being kitchen inventory, including a murder weapon. But you can't ban knives because their home use (other than homicide, obviously) by far exceeds their other uses. Thus it is out of the question as entirely impractical. Further, some varieties are actually banned from possession unless you have a license (e.g. hunting knives and anything looking more like a sword than a knife). On the hand, banning Bitcoin will not have a lot of side effects and unintended consequences apart from a bunch of nerds wining and crying over here and over there. Simply put, banning Bitcoin is not a big deal
2816  Economy / Economics / Re: IS THIS HOW USD IS CREATED? on: July 28, 2019, 07:56:04 AM
Maybe, solid as in reputation?
Sure, but not solid as in there are any tangible assets transferred to the bank in order to obtain the loan or credit

Reputation is everything these days

According to Robert Greene, reputation is "a treasure to be carefully collected and hoarded", which you should guard with your life. In fact, it has always been so, e.g. outlawing someone was considered a pretty severe punishment in the past. I feel certain that many people who defaulted on their loans would prefer to keep their reputation intact (represented by their credit history in today's world) and rather have bank taken their property

The bottom line is that it remains to be seen what is more solid here. And personally, I'm strongly inclined to think that reputation would win. That's basically why banks don't need to have the rights on any tangible assets transferred to them as losing reputation through a default will have more devastating consequences. It can be said that bank loans in the form of a credit card are already collateralized by the borrower's reputation

Here is an article written by the Bank of England (one of the most important banks in the world, and which most other central banks are based on)

You'd be surprised but I cited this article as early as 2016. But that doesn't deny or defy the facts that a) banks have deposits, b) loans are typically collateralized, and c) those which are not may come straight from these deposits

Either way, in fact, any of these three ways, banks don't create money completely out of thin air
2817  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: July 27, 2019, 07:26:41 PM
That they felt the need to respond to a little crypto rag in this manner -- it just feels really pathetic to me. Can you imagine businesses like Bitstamp, Gemini or Coinbase talking in this way? Clearly, Bitfinex is a different caliber of exchange

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes right now

It may look and feel like really pathetic (well, it definitely does) but it is not us who they (Bitfinex) should be afraid of or whose opinion care about at the moment. If you look at it with this perspective in mind, it may make sense after all, given they have a hearing on Monday (if I'm not mistaken), and a judge, or rather the judge, may find it totally appropriate. Once again, we don't see the whole picture, only minute details which make no sense to us. But it doesn't mean that the whole painting is as meaningless
2818  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Martingale revisited on: July 27, 2019, 06:37:41 PM
Even if you have an unlimited bankroll, the odds don't change. Assuming you are in a vacuum you will have a 50/50 chance to double or lose everything, no matter how you look at it

That's the point many folks seem to be missing somehow

Technically, you don't even need an unlimited bankroll or balance. The odds don't change for 1 roll but your balance does (which is assumed), and a sufficiently fast growing one will suffice as longer sequences are required to bust you. Okay, here's an example. Say, you have 3 dollars and you start betting with 1 dollar (for simplicity's sake). As you suggest, the chances are 50/50, so in the worst case after doubling your bet, you get terminated with two losses in a row, i.e. 1+2 (correct me if I'm missing something here)

In this manner, the odds of seeing 2 consecutive losses are 0.5x0.5=0.25. Say, after the first roll you win and your balance is doubled. Now you have 6 dollars and can only be terminated after a sequence of 3 losses (1+2+3). The odds of meeting your fate are now 0.5x0.5x0.5=0.125, i.e. half as much as with the first 3 dollars on your balance. If you continue to increase the balance, it will take longer and longer sequences to wipe you out. Thus you don't actually need an unlimited balance, you should just have it grow fast enough

Almost everyone agrees that the martingale system is really not profitable for a gambler. In essence, if you are unsure of the system then don't try it but if you are still curious, then try and you will feel for yourself how it works

It is not profitable because you have to choose between earning dust and risking your whole balance. And this is apart from limits imposed by casinos on max bets and the speed of autobet
2819  Economy / Economics / Re: IS THIS HOW USD IS CREATED? on: July 27, 2019, 04:12:20 PM
In this way, if the bank refuses the loan to someone without a credit history, it doesn't run the risk of a future default but it (or some other bank in the system) has already incurred some losses from the past default of this borrower.
With every loan there is still a risk of default, even with previously trustworthy people with good credit histories

Basically, it is a one-off event. For a borrower. And technically, for a bank too, with that client. But with a world living on debt and in debt, this event would be pretty inconsequential

As you can see, it involves a little more than just a promise of a random dude from the street. In short, empty promises don't work. You need something else, more solid
I'm not following. What is "solid"?

Maybe, solid as in reputation? It is hard to build and easy to destroy. Once it is ruined, there's typically no way back (as even this forum clearly shows and knows)

The money in the bank "depository" is the reserves which are used to back up a loan
Yes, but the bank's reserves come from other people's deposits. A bank can't give this money out in loans and keep it in their reserves. At some point, new money has to enter the system, and banks do this by creating credit out of nothing

Okay, so you agree that presumably uncollateralized loans (like credit cards with a nice credit limit) may actually come from deposits, and in this manner you can't say that money for these loans appears out of nowhere. That seems to be a pretty solid conclusion (no pun intended)
2820  Economy / Economics / Re: IS THIS HOW USD IS CREATED? on: July 27, 2019, 12:20:15 PM
Either way, you are risking your future loans. That's not a mere promise in my eyes
Correct, but the risk of of not being able to take out any futures loans is a loss for the customer, not a gain for the bank. The bank does not receive any new assets or reserves from refusing to offer loans to customers who have previously defaulted

But it doesn't receive them even if it approves the loan

Remember you are talking about uncollateralized debt, right? In this way, if the bank refuses the loan to someone without a credit history, it doesn't run the risk of a future default but it (or some other bank in the system) has already incurred some losses from the past default of this borrower. As you can see, it involves a little more than just a promise of a random dude from the street. In short, empty promises don't work. You need something else, more solid

A bank may in fact have real depositors who brought their hard-earned cash to the bank. Then the loans in question can be given out of these deposits or covered by them. In this case, you can't possibly say that the money for such loans was created out of nothing
Sure, but then the money in the depositors account is now no long backed up by reserves

Um, I'm not sure what you mean by this. The money in the bank "depository" is the reserves which are used to back up a loan

Let's say I deposit $1000 at a bank, and then bank then loans that $1000 out to you. The next day, I decide I need to withdraw my $1000. Does the bank say "Sorry, you can't withdraw, it's out on loan"? Of course not

Are you sure you know how deposits actually work? It is in fact more like ""Sorry, you can't withdraw until date X"

You will never convince me that credit is "good" money creation

Okay then
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