Forget alex jones, but vpro is very real and potentially the mother of all rootkits. Undetectable by software, impossible to turn off.  The Vpro controller has direct access to your hdd, keyboard, ram, and an attacker can indirectly gain access to all the rest, like camera and microphone. The possibilities are very scary.

I assume you mean stock in companies who's securities are not registered in the US, rather than the company itself. A German company is perfectly allowed to register its securities with the SEC and sell them to Americans.
If you meant unregistered securities, then yes it most likely would be a problem:


http://www.sec.gov/rules/interp/33-7516.htm

No such disclaimers or procedures are in place.

yes, there is legal definition for that. Unfortunately for a person it boils down to be being rich:
http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm


Then read the securities act, its pretty damn clear these are securities. Game credits typically would not constitute a future contract, company share or profit sharing agreement, and therefore wouldnt be securities even if they are sold on ebay for real money. That bitcoin securities are traded for bitcoins rather than dollar is irrelevant, they are traded for "value". This has been explained a gazillion times on this forum.

We have no idea what his role is. If he was merely an employee, I dont see a problem. But since he is the one who started this, Id be surprised if he didnt have a management role in the company.


Apparently there is no point in arguing with you, because every statement I make and document with links goes in one ear and out the other. Theswede isnt in trouble for running labcoin, he is in trouble for " knowingly or recklessly" providing "substantial assistance" in soliciting these funds.  You could probably also argue he is liable as controlling person through agency
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/77o


I dont miss that at all. My point is that Labcoin is violating US law even if its not a scam. And yes, that applies to pretty much every security on BTCT, Bitfunder and other exchanges that are readily available in the US and accept US investors' funds. As for Active miner, the shares issued are for the Belize company, not the US based sales company,  but indeed that doesnt make it any more legal.


THis is indeed unclear at the present afaik. More info here:
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-law-what-us-businesses-need-to-know/

But that changes nothing about the legality of issuing unregistered company stock and seems far less likely to provoke action by the SEC or other agencies.


I never said anything else, excpt:


For crying out loud. How can you be this dense?

In general, all securities offered in the U.S. must be registered with the SEC or must qualify for an exemption from the registration requirements

http://www.sec.gov/answers/regis33.htm

Are you saying these securities are not made available in the US? Does it say that securities related to foreign companies are excempt?


Yes and those offering securities in the US, regardless of their nationality of the issuer or the nature and object of the security.

 
THey can also make drinking softdrinks illegal if they want, but its not illegal now. However, selling unregulated securities to unsophisticated investors already is beyond a shadow of doubt.

WTF?

I said diehard libertarians.You dont have to be a diehard libertarian to oppose that.  In fact, you will find many people from the opposite extreme of the political spectrum opposing most of the  things you mention at least as vehemently. Ask dennis kucinich what he thinks of Nafta, Too big too fail, IMF, the Fed, TARP. Are we counting kucinich among die hard libertarians now? Obivously not. So the issues you raise arent libertarian issues, most of them are just about common sense.

Entirely possible and plausible, along with the PT operators, but the issue isnt whether the SEC will do it, the issue is the SEC can do it, because they are breaking US security laws. Doesnt matter where asicminer is incorporated. Doesnt matter what nationality friedcat has.

As for your huge font text about Burnside, you realise his company is registered in Belize, right?  That Belize isnt a city in the US, right ? Hey guess what, it doenst matter any more as where labcoin (isnt) incorporated. They are soliciting funds from US investors in the US, hence they are subject to SEC regulation.

Theswede doesnt seem to be sitting in HK, nor does Howard Wang. Those that are abroad could still be charged and found guilty in the US for soliciting funds in the US from US citizens. Whether or not they would demand extradition or if HK or Italy would grant it is a moot point.

As you have been told a million times, it doesnt matter where the company issuing the stock is incorporated (afaik labcoin isnt even incorporated). You have to follow US law when soliciting funds for unregistered securities from (unsophisticated) US citizens in the US. Even less doubt if the promoter/agent is a US citizen living in the US.

What the securities are about is of no importance, you cant promote and sell unregistered Nigerian stocks in the US, just because Nigerian law would allow it.

There is a reason Burnside at some point planned to deny access to his exchange for US citizens,  but you seem to daft to grasp why.

Im looking at the 2 month ahead prediction: 3548TH -71% +251%
-71% means -2519 so 1028 TH correct?
+251% means +8905 = 12453 TH

Sorry if I misunderstood that.


Not that I dont appreciate it, but I guess Im curious why you would spend so much time calculating it, or  for what  purposes such a wide range would be accurate enough?

OT, but I find it fascinating that time after time, this bitcoin experiment shows us the usefulness of so many existing regulations that die hard libertarians love to hate. Things like registering a security, so that potential investors know all the relevant facts about the people and the business they are investing in. Rules against insider trading and stock manipulation as hinted at above,  and disclosure requirements that would force labcoin to come clean about the actual status of their business making this more an investment than a lottery. The need for an organisation that verifies and enforces this, since you cant trust the exchanges, let alone the issuers.  We already learned what happens when you allow ponzi schemes (pirate) or known felons to play 'bank' (mybitcoin). BFL customers are finding out that FTC rules about shipping delays and refunds perhaps arent so daft. Heck, they are even learning that evil old Paypal has its uses too.

Many libertarians were or are convinced bitcoin would show just how good a totally free market can work. Its showing me the exact opposite: t doesnt work without some sensible regulation, it becomes a scammer's and gamblers paradise, not a functional economy.

Yes, at some point mining profitability will be below production cost of these asics. Although its more likely the electricity cost that determines this than the chip production cost. Miners with the cheapest electricity will be mining at most at a marginal profit and most asic vendors will close shop; difficulty with taper off, and D will be influenced solely by BTC price variance and perhaps mining fees if that becomes a real factor.

No one knows how long it will take to get there, several years most likely, but you can estimate at what network hashrate this will happen. By my math, somewhere between 80 and 800PH at the current BTC exchange rate and using 28nm asics:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=295270.0

I dont think we will see <28nm asics any time soon, if ever.

Yeah, chances seem good considering your prediction ranges between 1PH (less than today, how likely is that) and >12PH
I dont even have to look at a weather map to be able to predict tomorrow temperatures will be between -20C and +40C with 95% confidence.

OP; this is accidentally listed as 10 monarchs:


I almost fell off my chair when I saw someone had ordered 10 of them.

Are you taking bets on that ?

I tend to agree. This isnt so much about labcoin specifically as it is about "bitcoin stocks" in general. Its only a matter of time before the SEC and other authorities will set the record straight on what is and what isnt allowed. Burnside made it clear he considers himself in serious trouble, and I wouldnt be surprised if his asicminer PT is causing him more trouble even than btcst itselve.  He advised everyone else involved in these assets to seek legal counsel.  No one seems to be taking that seriously and everyone is just worried about liquidity, stock prices and what exchange to move to next.

Big mistake IMO.

Whether or not jail time is a risk, Issuing and selling unregistered securities and selling them publicly to unsophisticated investors is a fairly serious thing. As illustration:

A federal judge ruled that two Florida penny stock traders who issued unregistered shares of the defunct Universal Express must pay fines of $14 million and $5.3 million.
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2011/09/19/universal-express-penny-stock-traders.html

Whether or not they fix their asics wont change a thing about that. But of course its not only labcoin running that risk.

First of all, we dont have that info yet. AFAIK, we do not know who theswede is, nor is it clear who "samuel noi" is.

Secondly, why did you not think of asking these questions before investing?

FWIW, I dont think this is an outright scam, but if you give a million dollar to someone anonymous, it rarely ends well.

Sam cant be the sister, he thought Samuel Noi was the asic designer.

Like I said, I dont really care if you believe it. fabrizio is on google+ en facebook, just ask him yourself.