If you want to find the real cream of the geek crop, you should add a checkbox for "I know what the difference between recursion and corecursion is"  |
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"Here's this thing with no tangible assets that I own and believe you me that it's worth X dollars." What would you call something of that kind?
Tangible assets aren't everything. You have IP and you have "brand recognition" within a relevant community, both of which are worth something |
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My guarantee is that If I make bad investments I will repay depositers their BTC back. What I'm trying to say is that it would be a risk free investment for them as long as they can trust me. As far as the car accident thing, not really sure how to answer that. I guess that can happen to anyone.
It can, but most people set up trusted people to be able to redistribute the assets if something terrible happens to them, or some other form of dead-man's switch. |
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wow I thought Canadians were supposed to be nice  Nope, but we still have great health care and some of us even have full heads of hair. Seriously, what the fuck is this? You need to deal with your anger issues, because lashing out at people like that only makes you look unstable as hell and has put you on several unrelated people's shitlists already. |
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Bump. I also thought I'd throw in that anyone who fulfills this order will get a free VPS for life :-D
I think it might help your cause if you discussed the terms of the loan/bond up front. You mention in the original post that you didn't want to speak about it publicly, but I don't really see what there is to lose by putting your terms out there. Would you like the loan to be declining principal (i.e., the lender sends you the money up front, and then you pay it off once/twice a month, like a mortgage) or a lump sum at the end? Or would it behave a bit like coupons on a bond, where the original principal is paid at the end, but the lender receives periodic payments of the interest amount along the way? What about late payments? Would you agree to a penalty for those? I think people are a lot more cautious about lending out USD than they are about BTC, because they need up-front real-world cash to finance you, and many people might be bitcoin-rich but not have many liquid assets outside of bitcoin. People might be reluctant to sell coins to finance a USD loan, especially if they feel bullish about the market (either short-term or long-term) I know that if I were lending, I'd want to know the answers to the questions above, but wouldn't necessarily want to write a long blurb to you in private asking for details, as that requires a bit more commitment than many people want to put forward. As far as I'm concerned, I think this is a pretty good deal. It not only has low counterparty risk, due to you being reputable and solvent, but also has none of the currency risk we usually associate with loans in this community (assuming that most people want USD in the end), and it has pretty good returns for a loan with this profile, in real-world terms. If people are still worried about risk, people can hedge their exposure to you (at the cost of adding exposure to me) by using me as a guarantor and giving me some of the risk/profits. That said, $2000 is still a reasonable amount of "real hard cash" that people might be wary of sending to a stranger on the internet. |
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Thank you brendio and MPOE-PR for clarifying the terms of the contracts. Might it pay to update the original announcement to address brendio's questions/points explicitly for the benefit of future readers? I only have two outstanding questions, really: For equity investors, the IPO is effectively impossible to price and any investment in it is by nature almost pure, uninformed speculation. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's hard to justify throwing $500 worth of coins at the IPO knowing that someone else might throw $50000 at it (unlikely, but in principle could happen), ensuring that I only get a minute percentage of the company. As an investor in the IPO, all I really know is that I won't be getting more than 0.1% and won't ever get exactly 0%. I can try to model my expectation of other investors' behavior in the IPO (the $50000 is unlikely given the terms and the fact that others will have the same concerns as I do) to determine what might get me a reasonable chunk of shares for my money, and then evaluate whether I consider the shares I expect to get to be worth the money I throw at them, but that's a lot of unknowns I realize that it's hard for Mircea to pick a suitable price for the initial offering of shares, too, and that's why he did things this way, but I'd urge for him to try to make an educated (realistic) guess rather than force us to undergo a complex modeling task to evaluate the IPO. On the bond front, I'm mostly concerned about the "penalty" of frozen funds if you demand a high interest rate. Mircea justifies this by saying that it creates an incentive for bond-holders to offer "reasonable" interest rates up front, because otherwise their funds are frozen for a month, but again it boils down to predicting other people's behavior. An early adopter might have 100k coins lying around (he might be holding them for the long term) and be willing to lend them all out at the last minute for 0.1% interest. Any of the rest of us offering even a 0.5% monthly rate (which is very low compared to most credit issued in the bitcoin community) would have our funds frozen for a month, and then at the end of the month we'd probably withdraw them and not deal with MPOE bonds again. Then MPOE has a cheap loan and all is well, but it's fully dependent on the whims of the early adopter, who might decide to lend all those coins to pirateat40 a couple of months later. Again, I see why Mircea used this approach, to incentivize use to offer him reasonable rates, but I think the penalty for mis-priced interest is too high. MPOE might achieve similar incentives with fewer drawbacks by imposing a penalty fee for withdrawing unused bond money early. Anyway, I'm interested to see how this develops. I would definitely like to get involved, but right now there are too many unknowns for me. P.S: are there any plans to allow customers to write options, possibly with daily settlement or a similar arrangement? or is the site intended only as a market for Mircea's own options? |
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With slim margins between interest rates on CDs and the very high default risk of lending through this board, permitting "dynamic" withdrawals of funds does not seem profitable if I also need to keep reserves in an amount to pay off deposits, especially with a few people buying CDs of large value.
Then why not disallow at-will withdrawals (or impose penalties for them)? "Real-world" CDs have predetermined deposit terms, ranging from a few months to several years, with commensurate returns. Those kinds of time frames probably wouldn't work with bitcoin, due to the massive currency risk, but I could see myself agreeing to leave you coins for a couple of months if the returns were right. |
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I know there is an animated version of the price history for bitcoin (although I cannot find it at the moment), I don't suppose there is an animated bid/ask history for mtgox aswell. it would at least be interesting or maybe give an insight to the tactics of buyers and sellers.
I don't think anyone actually logs all that data, apart from taking occasional snapshots of the full depth. I started a project to log all depth updates from socket.io in a manner that can be queried efficiently, but lost interest. I'd like to see someone else do it. |
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He makes up for the site's ugliness by hiring really hot PR women, right? Beauty comes from behind. Are you saying Santorum is beautiful? |
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...the better technology doesn't always win.
This. The graveyard of technology is filled with examples. I don't quite agree with this. I mean, it's true for many conventional technologies but it's not like Bitcoin has a real competitor out there. It's not VHS vs Betamax or something like that, Bitcoin is a truly unique technology. It's the first decentralized digital monetary system. Currently the only real level of competition that applies to Bitcoin is centralized vs decentralized and I believe that decentralization is winning. Everything in our society is becoming less centralized slowly but surely, that is why Bitcoin has an edge in the long run. It's completely possible that a true competing technology will emerge, some other decentralized currency that might or might not be superior to Bitcoin but still manages to become more significant than Bitcoin. This is very possible. There might be a superior cryptocurrency in the future or a totally different kind of currency that doesn't even use cryptography. That's fine by me, if someone comes up with something better I'll gladly jump on board. But as it is right now, Bitcoin is a unique technology that over the long run has a much better chance of growing than declining. Of course there is a chance that something will destroy Bitcoin, either massive legal troubles or technical failures. Even in this case the idea behind Bitcoin is not going anywhere, there would be another decentralized currency that salvages the best of Bitcoin and makes it even better. I agree with you that it's unique, but is it unique along axes that Joe Shmoe cares about? If Joe Shmoe doesn't care about a central point of failure in a currency, we can rattle on for years about how nobody can subvert bitcoin and he still won't care. |
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so, in addition to my previous post, to make money in any market including bitcoin, you must either put the 'time' in to learn how to technically trade the market, or you put the 'money' in to pay someone who did put the 'time' in to guide you. Don't be stupid and bet your money in the market like you would in a casino. As in a casino, the house always wins.  And surely you have no vested interest in recommending this, right? |
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what happens when it goes down and dosent come up..?
It's the usual momentum vs. contrarian divide. Contrarian strategies work for mostly stationary markets and momentum trading works for big trends. There's no single good strategy, ever, and you need to have additional (ideally, almost unbreakable) policies in place for dealing with (i.e., closing out and cutting losses) movements that go too far outside of your expectations. If someone had stuck to this method blindly when we were deflating after June, they'd be pretty sad by now. |
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you will know the truth will inevitably come to light; either through Bitcoin's resilience or more people demonstrating what it truly is.
I'm not sure about this statement. Look at the ubiquity of PHP. Everyone agrees it's a piece of crap language, and its own "designer" openly admits he never intended for it to be used the way it gets used. Yet it's still hugely popular among programmers. Same with Java, or <insert shitty technology here>. The arguments people make in favor of Java or PHP are that sure, it isn't ideal, but it's good enough and has a lot of infrastructure around it. The same thing can be said about existing payment methods. Even if bitcoin is 100% technically superior to all of them, there are network effects and general inertia that mean that it might never become mainstream. I do think it will grow significantly from where it is now, but the better technology doesn't always win. On the other hand, "eventually" statements can't be falsified, so I guess you could argue that good technology will still eventually overcome bad technology in spite of network effects, and we just haven't had the time to observe that happen much in the computing industry. |
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We should also flesh out penalties for late payments and such.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm willing to co-sign/be guarantor to half of this debt for 10% of the amount I'd be liable for. For example, if I were liable to cover $1150 of the total (including interest for the lender), I'd want $115 for the risk I'm assuming on the lender's behalf. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.orgiQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPSnlcAAoJEBr5KUaSgPvW7hYQALx3TXiziR4QFEAyZAedURU0 UCvafYEaFscOJuXeijMwwDZvaLgfpZk9AckziM4On2JfiNUpjg5B5fI9Yu/Sj1x9 /nfSOiyZResPHMBo2rqW6jWJmSdC4f/P59YbhQDkADy+A6pxgsFlKj/3QKSKQISC 1PryTi0dYuqV7hmrVZ6HE6ve5x6KrMi/nAwvcWzuajeYF3OsjERISYIiFdjpI7p7 Yp+zEUG8lNB+4mpkrR3WU4i/QeNPnSLN62CEqq/zi7Z51GqiCxQGPcifWr68yEyj leEiYeJC6w+bbmveSwdyJfucpUh1GcO7yLZRugYZNLQfQenppvVIrpkqxq9051qA fJ/T2qvwqy+CcX+lYIREud4djG+IQy0TRBIiE1QeCqr41Sh7czWz2URUdtkKb0v0 EoXGcMhnHnoaae7ltR0YNcksX0IlhIJqp6xA+IY+4Y2qQO/FkwjHXww+2PXHnoZ7 zoLxj9xBDLKVxBz07ed2CahB2CccD1v+HRejWjunmrj8UoVLvgHu/yoktGArtDAU epbRSBBaQvfWS1OuEhaBA8NYFonPXDkmPHeE6VeN8bMhva74plRsWfcRVUj7Ciyu /Rx2FO76IKirS8a51GQGd8RVGR+/w8MqqSPSnv9GTfr/FXX7zjRP8P4CmaQcne2J 6+QTfCqClh+2+jgwhCCY =uKT/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=copumpkin |
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I am willing to pay whatever interest that is required as long as it is reasonable and from a reputable lender
I'm curious: Why is it important for you for the lender to be reputable? I don't see how he can scam you. The lender could claim he never got the money back. If there's no public record, certified by both sides, of what repayment address the lender wanted to use, the borrower might have a hard time convincing the community that he actually repaid his debt. |
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Interesting service. Seems fairly legitimate, and the guy has reputation. Not to mention it looks like he knows what he's doing- but why are you posting instead of him? Haven't heard of him and his service until today but he seems to be profitable. Either way it looks like he's pulling a lot of steam, so if the BTC community trusts him I guess that's good enough for me.
I think I'm going to have to keep an eye on this, seems like a very good investment.
He doesn't have a forum account and I thought it'd be good to get some discussion going on the forum. You should try convincing him to get on here! |
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Shouldn't Shakaru have a record of all his investors and the people he owes money to? It seems sort of backwards/unfair to wait for people to come forward to claim their money.
In fact, getting full records from Shakaru of reversed paypal transactions and the like would likely help clear up the whole business and make it much easier to figure out who's owed what (especially if paypal returned money to some investors as a result).
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My forum nickname is copumpkin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40837My otc nickname is copumpkin. http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=copumpkin-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.orgiQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPScJ9AAoJEBr5KUaSgPvWOXEQANE7Pjwyf7swkVoDL6o4u/SD uNZYnejNLDqQuVAqMnc1sxeZWXP4MhRE1FIzEbGKQJdjaV/gnEus8HRxuodmxnCY AEdkahvXMtL6QvlQ7IUARGiey/rr0xd/j9kQ1Abm485cMHtAJN+wjYzweWIQ7yhH FBLIfJcHUjB1dSgcy+SB2Rjkk/m9Hi8xVH8T7K+aEhbWVe01M3tVaO4dL0reWCL4 jUw/r4baqY+OCuKMCcbaL0r+hRKzuSTpBs8tKcNnL2FJ2JkZNSOFwgWKOIL65m0L /69SYQ1TSoowyu5aOhYdsmpRRhAChxKcLHJ1U2I+r56HieuoW7eNusg0gMzNcAko pxIG5R/TyLtj/K6Q4yPPYzkkfeKJoRbxkxqfZkuBSCx9GJYALatyYHuZXtTYZswo ATWM0QlGkgYNup/hl43jDs/VheVV/kiSqX+b7je3/BEmYu9k6vnEtPat4MYL6DLa fw1LKlID3FeRrZdgQmAiHyfTsd4zBUSbNhZAwUhomA1M2TwOPqsAsEF274CQqtu1 rj0vszqUgYI2UDUcQTV6nABBTnMnAsts+GCNwtfr15qE3sVeefaMrI3N4TefTWLM LSWQ7USEMHKxSfnozhrxZIp9Boaphg564Osp1Kiw0DS4tGkx3qjn+JeuPe7yHO/l c3NrwKMr7+AbsRGfThIB =r2Wt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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