On a brighter note - 7 blocks & counting...... That's great. Now if only it was usable by smaller miners. I was squeezed out. My node is empty because all of them had the same hash rate or me (1.2 TH/s) or lower, and couldn't get any shares. There are few things more frustrating than waiting 18 hours for a share only to see it roll off in 24 hours without a block. M Not to sound harsh, but mining in general is not going well for small miners. This doesn't appear to be a p2pool problem, but a general bitcoin problem. It's the nature of the beast. It is more acutely felt by small p2pool miners because of the nature of how p2pool works. As more hash rate gets added to p2pool, the difficulty of finding a share goes up. Those with small hash rates are affected because they might go for days without finding a share - and no share means no payout. It's precisely the opposite problem found in other pools where the greater the hash rate, the less the variance for the individual miner.
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Bitmain shipped out the first batch (well, b8) of S3+? Wow... 10 days early. Nice job Bitmain.
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Aha...
I get it now...so even with free electricity it's not possible to make any profit...
so why are all those huge farms mining still? how can they mine at loss?
Huge farms get hardware at significantly lower rates than a regular consumer can. KnC, Bitmain, Cointerra, etc all manufacture the hardware as well as run their own farms, as well as sell cloud mining contracts. They make lots of profit.
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How is my calculation off? Only 4 BTCs by the end of the year?
Yes, only 4 BTC at the end of the year, and that's assuming 10% increases in difficulty. Like I wrote, if you assume 15%, you're still trying to recoup your initial investment by year's end (you're at negative 27 BTC). It's simply math and any online calculator worth the name does the calculation for you: 25 / (Difficulty * 2^32 / hash rate / 86400) = expected earning per day
As that difficulty goes up, your earnings correspondingly go down. Let's take a look at some real calculations for those 100 S3s (assuming 450GH/s each)... Earnings per day right now: 25 / (27428630902 * 2^32 / 45000000000000 / 86400) = 0.8251 BTCEarnings per day at next difficulty (10% increase): 25 / (30171493992 * 2^32 / 45000000000000 / 86400) = 0.7501 BTCEarnings per day at next difficulty (10% increase): 25 / (33188643391 * 2^32 / 45000000000000 / 86400) = 0.6819 BTC... Get it? Your income goes down every time the difficultly goes up. Your calculations assumed little to no increase in difficulty. 0.8251 * 365 = 301, you got 292. EDIT: Let me give you a real world example of decreased earnings. I received my very first Antminer S1 on 4/2/2014. I overclocked it to 200GH/s the instant I turned it on. On 4/2 of this year, that 200GH/s expected to earn me 0.02009 BTC a day. If I still had that S1 today, that very same 200GH/s would expect to earn me 0.003667 BTC a day.
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Ok,
This applies to myself or anyone who has FREE electricity....I haven't calculated the cost of electricity in the below calc.
A simple calculation....
100 S3s @ each 350 USD, so total is $35,000.
50 PSUs to power them, lets say Corsair RM850 for every two...each PSU is around $160, so total cost is $8,000
Let's assume I need Misc. costs of power extensions, network cables, switches...etc. at around $5,000.
So what is my total cost? $48,000
Ok, based on my experience from Eligius, I've seen around 0.008 BTCs per day for every S3.
Now, let's run for a full year (365 days) with all 100 S3s, so the total expected BTCs is 292 BTCs for the first year.
at this moment's price of BTC, that's $140,000
minus cost ($48,000 earlier), so a net profit of $92,000. Isn't that good income? and this is only for the first year. If you run it with another 2 years, you will even make more...
Ok, you will say the difficulty and all, let's make that total BTCs in the first year is not 292, let's cut it down to 260 BTCs for the sake of difficulty.
so, 260 BTCs is worth on today's price $124,800. Deduct the initial costs (the $48,000), that will be $76,000 NET profit.
Now the BTC price is not constant as we all know, there is a change that it can be $600 or $1,000, and there is a chance that it could go down as well....
Am I missing something?
1) There is no such thing as free electricity. Somebody is paying for it, or has paid quite a bit of money investing in generation capacity. 2) To run those 100 S3s you're going to need access to a constant supply of at least 50kW of electricity. 3) You need to remove the heat generated by those devices 4) Your calculations are off. At 10% difficulty increases, at the end of a year you will have made approximately 4 BTC profit. At 15% difficulty increases, you're still 27 BTC in the hole at the end of the year. These assume 0 electricity costs, which I have already addressed in point 1.
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Thanks Jonny, great start! No problem. Additionally, I wrote a guide on how to get p2pool up and running on a Mac natively. It's geared towards using MacPorts, but you can substitute HomeBrew if you prefer. Here's the BTC one: 1. Download Bitcoin-Qt and install ( http://www.bitcoin.org) 1.1 Let it sync either directly from the network, or by downloading the latest bootstrap.dat torrent 2. Open a terminal window and using your favorite editor like vi or nano, create ~/Library/Application Support/Bitcoin/bitcoin.conf and enter the following (please, please, PLEASE do NOT use the values I put in for the user and password. Make up your own): server=1 rpcuser=SOMEUSER rpcpassword=SOMEREALLYGOODPASSWORD 3. Install Xcode and Xcode command line developer tools 4. Install MacPorts and do steps 4.1 - 4.5 in a terminal window 4.1 sudo port selfupdate 4.2 sudo port install python27 4.3 sudo port install py-twisted 4.4 sudo port install py-argparse 4.5 sudo port select --set python python27 5. Get the p2pool software. Again using your terminal window go with either step 5.1 or step 5.2. 5.1 For just Bitcoin/Litecoin: git clone https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool.git5.2 If you plan on setting up a node for other alt coins, get Rav3n's fork of the p2pool code: git https://https://github.com/Rav3nPL/p2pool-rav6. Once your Bitcoin-Qt client has finished synchronizing, restart it so it will take your bitcoin.conf file into account. 7. In your terminal window, change directory to p2pool, or p2pool-rav depending on which you chose. For example, on my system, it's located at ~/Mining/p2pool or ~/Mining/p2pool-rav 8. Run p2pool node software (this is for Bitcoin): ./run_p2pool.py SOMEUSER SOMEREALLYGOODPASSWORD That's it. You should now be running a local P2Pool node. Also, here's the command to execute in the terminal to start p2pool, connect to some nodes and merge mine some coins (along with explanations of each command): nohup ./run_p2pool.py -n 54.235.94.19:9333 -n 185.24.249.15:9333 -n 104.131.12.128:9333 --give-author 0 -f 0 --merged http://NMCuser:NMCPassword@10.0.1.14:7333 --merged http://IXCuser:IXCPassword@10.0.1.14:8338 --merged http://DVCuser:DVCPassword@10.0.1.14:53333 --merged http://FSCuser:FSCPassword@10.0.1.14:22222 --merged http://I0Cuser:I0CPassword@10.0.1.14:13333 -a SOMEFEEADDRESS BTCUser BTCPassword > /dev/null 2>&1 & nohup - no hangup. Keep the process running even when you shut down the terminal window. run_p2pool.py - start the p2pool node --give-author - a percentage to donate to the author of the p2pool software. If you do not pass this argument, the software will by default donate 1%. --merged - merge mine with the following coin http://USER:PASSWORD@IP:PORT - the username, password, IP address and rpcport of the coin you're merged mining -a - instead of paying to the default wallet, pay fees here SOMEFEEADDRESS - the address to pay to -n - connect to this p2pool node http://IP:PORT - the p2pool node to connect to -f - charge users this fee percentage to mine on your node (0 - 100) BTCUser - the user specified in bitcoin.conf BTCpassword - the password specified in bitcoin.conf > /dev/null - write standard console output the trash 2>&1 - write error console to the same place you're writing standard console (trashed) & - run the process in the background
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a few S1s. I have the port open now, but I cant seem to connect to it... still chugging away at it..
S1s are notoriously difficult to get solo mining directly against a wallet. it has to do with the old version of cgminer they use, high queue settings, trouble dealing with the protocol, etc. Got any other miners you can try (like an old USB stick or something)? There's always the option of setting up your own pool (MPOS pools are pretty straightforward to setup) and just point your S1s to the pool. Since you'd be the only one on it, it would be solo mining. Here's an idea for your .conf file: server=1 listen=1 daemon=1 rpcuser=WKCuser rpcpassword=awnv983whtewnsdkSDOF2d rpcallowip=192.168.1.*
Then when you configure your S1... Assuming your miner is running on 192.168.1.11, then your URL is 192.168.1.11:9335 user name is WKCuser password is awnv983whtewnsdkSDOF2d
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First... LOL at the coin. I checked it out... "bank while you wank". HAHAHAHA!!!
Next, you might find more help in the alt-coins forums. Out of curiosity, what miners are you trying to point to your wallet to solo mine?
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an S3+ will hash at 453Gh/s so according to the calculator below (exchange rate 467.33US to bitcoin) https://alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculatorit will make sense (not sure how much you can trust bitcoin calculators though) Except the S3+ is not available to start right now. You have to take into account the fact that you won't get it until sometime after the 20th of this month.
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How do you measure if it's worth it for you? i mean in terms of months...
if you make up your initial investment, in 3 months? 5 months?
The earliest the better, but what is the minimum average?
If you believe the majority, then it's an infinite amount of time since no mining hardware purchased right now has a prayer of making back the investment. Of course you could disregard the majority vote and do your own predictions to see where it gets you. A lot is dependent upon a number of factors, which I explained in the other post you made asking about this here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775825.msg8744119#msg8744119
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Thanks for the feedback
Why do you believe s3 is "useless"? Can you provide a better ASIC device?
Because most every mining calculator predicts that you will never mine enough coins with the S3 to make a profit. Ultimately it's your call on what you wish to do; however, most would advise you to take the money you were going to spend on a miner and use it instead to buy BTC directly and hold.
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so is it good idea mining from home? or it's a bad business? say i want to make 2 bit coing/m what kind of rig i should need? should i use my own pc or better to buy machine which is made only for mining?
You'll need dedicated mining hardware. You also need to realize that to maintain a steady income, you must constantly add hashing power to your mining operation to deal with the difficulty adjustments. You need to do a ton more research.
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Looking for a knowledgeable volunteer
P2Pool.org is coming along well, however the amount of copy that the basic site needs has been a little overwhelming.
Once the initial site is complete I plan to put it up on Github so all can contribute, and in the interim I'm looking for someone to help out with the Community & Resources section.
It will contain links to all things P2Pool; original source, useful forks, front-ends, node locators, statistics, and most importantly good set-up/tuning tutorials for various OSs and coins.
Anyone feel like compiling a text list of titles and links by categories?
Launch is set for next Thursday, would need the list by Tuesday the 16th at the latest.
No HTML or other formatting required, just looking for someone to help out with the data collection.
It does not need to be perfect as we can add/modify latter, it should be a solid start on a comprehensive list of quality P2Pool resources.
If more then 1 volunteer wants to help out we could set up a public Google doc or similar for collaboration.
Author attribution available on the page if desired.
Let me know...
Ian (windpath)
Here's a start... InfoOfficial p2pool site: http://p2pool.inThis thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.0P2Pool wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2PoolSetting up merged-mining (Ubuntu): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=651819.0Single script setup of p2pool node with all supported merge-mined coins: http://bitcoin.kyros.infoOriginal p2pool merge mining setup thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62842.0Comparison of p2pool, Eligius and BTCGuild: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416933.0Relay Node: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=766190.0Source CodeForrest's original p2pool source: https://github.com/forrestv/p2poolRav3n's fork (lots of alt coins): https://github.com/Rav3nPL/p2pool-ravRoy7's vardiff patch: https://github.com/roy7/p2pool/commit/71121fa79016db7679ca0dcbf4328d9c9d51c97dMatt Corallo's Relay Node: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/RelayNodeMatt's fork of p2pool with relay node built in: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/p2poolFront EndsExtended Front End: https://github.com/hardcpp/P2PoolExtendedFrontEndJustino's "Punchy" Front End: https://github.com/justino/p2pool-ui-punchyroy7's p2pool node status: https://github.com/roy7/p2pool-node-statusNorgan's: https://github.com/norgan/p2pool_fancy_front_endOtherHunterBunter's web-based donation page: http://blisterpool.com/p2pdonateNode finder: http://p2pool-nodes.infoHistorical p2pool mining info (pretty inaccurate): http://p2pool.info
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If the PSU weighs less than 3 pounds it's probably trash (for mining at least). Compare weights between a Seasonic 500W and a Raidmax 500W - almost a 2 pound difference in weight.
For the more technical people all you need to do is look at the 12V specs and see how many Amps the PSU can output.
Your explanation made me think of Jurassic Park when they were sitting in the trucks by the Tyrannosaurus paddock... the power has gone out and the kids start digging through stuff...Tim pops up wearing night vision goggles. Gennaro - "Hey, where'd you find that?" Timmy - "In a box under my seat." Gennaro - "Are they heavy?" Timmy - "Yeah" Gennaro - "Then they're expensive. Put them back."
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all those things you guys mentioned side, what will be the life of the hardware? that's my question.
can it run for 5 years? for example
The answer to that question is what I wrote in my final paragraph. It depends on how long the hardware continues to function. People are still running hardware that's over a few years old.
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Hi
What is the average life of each miner (S3 for example)?
That's a very hard question to answer because it depends on so many things. As the first reply mentions, cost of power plays a large factor in determining the life span of a miner. Most people would agree that a miner becomes useless when it costs more to run than it can produce in coins. Therefore, as your power costs increase, your miner's lifespan will decrease. Another factor to take into consideration is difficulty. Since difficulty changes are unknown, it's hard to determine how long a miner remains viable. Just like with power, the smaller the adjustments in difficulty, the longer your miner lives. You can also factor in alternate coin mining. Sure, it may become unprofitable to keep your miner working on BTC, but it might make sense to mine a few other coins before sending the hardware to the recycling bin. Of course, all of these answers are based on the assumption that your definition of a miner's lifespan is driven by profit. If profit is not a concern to you, and you simply want to mine coins to support the network, then your miner's lifespan is as long as the hardware functions.
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well looks like ill never understand how mining works.
Are you looking for the technical details of how mining works, or do you just want the high-level explanation of it? A lot of good information has already been provided in this thread, so help us to help you. What don't you understand?
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PS. In my part of the world, though the lottery jackpot is not always won at each draw, there are always winners in each draw.
That's why I don't typically compare mining to playing the lottery. You can win in the lottery by matching X of Y numbers. You can't partially solve the block of BTC.
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So basically what you are saying is that it is only possible for a single hasher to solve a block if it is just their shares that solve the entire block. That would imply that a solo mining pool is a fraud as this will NEVER realistically happen with the hashing power in the hands of home miners.
It would most certainly not imply that a solo mining pool is a fraud. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion from this discussion. Is it likely that I will solo mine a block of BTC? Nope. Is it likely I will win the powerball on Wednesday? Nope. Doesn't mean I won't pick up a ticket for a couple bucks and try anyway. EDIT: It is not a combined effort of shares that solve a block. It is a SINGLE share that does it. Each time you're attempting to find the solution, it either works or it doesn't. Flip a coin. Either it lands on heads or it lands on tails. It can't land on both at the same time. Each flip of that coin has absolutely no relation to the flips before it, or the flips that come after it.
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Let me give you a scenario. I go and create this type of pool, and have 2 miners connected to it. After a while the first block is found by miner 1. Both miners have been submitting work equally. I have 25BTC to give out. Who gets it? If I pay miner 1 the full 25BTC for finding the block, I don't have anything left to pay miner 2. If I pay both miner 1 and miner 2 for the work they've done, I don't have the 25BTC to give to miner 1 for finding the block. Make sense?
Just to tweak your scenario to suit my utopia. 2 miners connected, hashing equally. Scenario 1: Miner 1 finds the block - Miner 1 gets 25 BTC less the mining fees attributed to Miner 2's work which Miner 2 gets Scenario 2: the pool wins the block - Each miner gets 12.5 BTC including (or in addition to) the mining fees attributed to their work submissions I think I found your confusion. There is no such thing as "the pool wins the block". Either miner 1 or miner 2 had to have solved the block. Your scenario 1 is in reality your scenario 2, minus that "pool wins the block" stuff. If both miner 1 and miner 2 are mining with equal hashing power and equally submitting shares, then they've each contributed exactly half the work necessary to solve the block. Therefore, they're each going to get 12.5 BTC.
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