This ignores the whole value of having one uniquer ledger of ownership. We don't need another coin, additional layers can serve these needs equally well.
Bitcoins are not just some tokens that we trade back and forth. They are real estate on the blockchain ledger. We will record titles with them, time stamp creative works, etc. The ledger is what gives bitcoins value. It needs to expand because someday we may record damn near ALL titles on it and use it for almost all timestamps.
The record of almost everything that almost everybody owns will be extremely valuable and worth maintaining, even if it takes up a lot of hard drive space. When Seward bought Alaska from the Russians, he caught a lot of heat from people who didn't see the potential. That's what bitcoins are now, raw potential.
Forking the ledger is not a bad thing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1161157.0. If there is enough demand by market forces, there can be two ledgers protected by a varying percentage of hashpower. Exchanges will help determine the value of each fork. Unfortunately people are currently split on their demands of two orthogonal use cases of Bitcoin, one of which could lead to it being more centralized. Just to be clear, fork or no fork. Both paths will lead to immense wealth creation enabled by Bitcoin tech. Um, no. Only one fork will survive. The losing fork will be a dead branch, a string of orphaned blocks. I don't know which fork will prevail, but like the Highlander, there can be only one. If the cripplecoiners get their way, most of the vast potential of Bitcoin will be strangled in the crib. We will have to use a completely different cryptocoin to utilize that potential and progress will be set back years. Cripplecoiners don't want to be Guardians of the Galaxy. They want to be bouncers at an exclusive club, "Highlander", "Guardians of the Galaxy". Your nerd power is strong. |
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... so you felt the need to go ad hominem on him?
No, but I'm feeling the potential need to go ad hominem on you! You make some good points in many of your posts but I find your constant "scale or die" rhetoric to be a simplistic dumbing down of what is a relatively complex debate (you're displaying similar lines of 'intelligence' to President Bush's "You're either with us or against us" and "the axis of evil" chest beating after 911 and we all know how poorly much of that turned out).
In retrospect i am willing to admit that this was probably a much more serious slur in my eyes than in Billy Joe Banjo's, but I took offense on his behalf. I mostly enjoy reading your and BJA's posts but some of the ways you're expressing yourselves are not helpful. We're not here to be helpful, we're just talking shit.
When are people going to wake up and realise that all this infighting and characterisation of people within bitcoin as "pussies" and "spineless people" is the internal bickering that just makes serious money on the outside of crypto look in (for 5 seconds tops) and shake their heads at the immaturity and self-defeating culture.
If they take their cues from the WO-thread they're idiots, besides, BJA's original rant was a relatively level-headed and reasonable one. And he's a Louisiana ethanol producer. I would be more worried about the public discourse among the devs. With regards to "pussies" and "spineless people". I think it's fair to call out people who doesn't contribute but decides to go on a crusade against those who care enough to have an opinion. Honestly, we need unity and leadership to present a unified face. This stuff you're going on with is disastrous. Who exactly doesn't want Bitcoin to scale? Who? I honestly don't know who these people are. Of course there are a multitude of discussions around new developments like sidechains and the Lightning Network which may change some aspects of how the blockchain is used and what direction it takes, but I don't see any of these people arguing for a Bitcoin that doesn't scale.
This is just more of the "you're either with us or against us" black and white rhetoric I highlighted above.
It's absolutely not helpful to the cause.
You can't disparage the ""you're either with us or against us" black and white rhetoric" at the same time as you ask for leadership. This whole case is about leadership, and how it is failing while people on the fence are waiting for some kind of consensus that will not be reached in time. Shooting with a sawed-off in WO-thread debates is healthy. There are some not-so-healthy contributions, but the WO-thread can handle it. We have fucking lambie here! Try explaining lambie to your "serious money". Who exactly doesn't want Bitcoin to scale? A bunch. I can't be bothered to re-read the thread, but if you've followed the discussion you'd seen there has been several. Do they matter? Who knows? |
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It's bizzarre to me that anyone can claim that Bitcoin's PRIMARY utility is as a store of value. A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years.
Bitcoin needs to scale in order to survive. The people who sell bitcoin don't seem to think so. The people who buy Bitcoin absolutely do. Ever heard the saying "the customer is always right?"
I think eventually it will be seen as a store of value. Your "A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years" statement is taking a selective window of Bitcoin's total lifespan and highlighting its devaluation from the ATH. A similar selective view could be applied to many 'store of value' assets that went through booms and busts in their early days. Of course it needs to scale and I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't. You make some good points in many of your posts but I find your constant "scale or die" rhetoric to be a simplistic dumbing down of what is a relatively complex debate (you're displaying similar lines of 'intelligence' to President Bush's "You're either with us or against us" and "the axis of evil" chest beating after 911 and we all know how poorly much of that turned out). Rather than just painting anyone that doesn't think XT has the right combination of attributes and backing as someone that's against Bitcoin moving forward, perhaps you could bring a little more clarity around the issues at hand to the discussion and dispense with such black and white judgement. ... so you felt the need to go ad hominem on him? BJA can go off the rails now and then, but this is not one of those times. There are plenty here who doesn't want Bitcoin to scale. They want it to stay tiny and reserve the blockchain for bulk transactions or "just as a store of value"(What that value would be is kind of lost on me). What annoys ME is pussies who consistently talk about the "middle ground" as if it's the wise and reasonable choice in every situation, when really it's just a cop out for spineless people. BJA can be way off track sometimes, but at least he is prepared to plow his own track if need be. |
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If there ever was anyone who deserved to be DDOS'd to infinity and beyond it would be the coinwallet people. I think the Bitcoin community should all go together and pay for the CEO's apartment to be surrounded by PA systems that go "PING!" 120 times a minute each in order to "stress test" his ability to not jump out of the window.
I seriously doubt it's a real company and they probably wouldn't notice if their website was gone. Dunno who or what they are but being a proper Bitcoin company isn't one of them. There is absolutely no mention of them anywhere in relation to anything other than the stress tests. Then I suggest that the procedure is applied to ibtimes until they point us in the direction of the fucktards. Then we hire one of those wonderful bitcoin-accepting "cleaners" on the dark web that I've heard so much about. |
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CoinWallet has already demonstrated their ability to perform a spam attack earlier this summer and I don't think they are bluffing about their intention of conducting another soon. I'd estimate the spam attack will start in the next week or two. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/coinwallet-plans-bitcoin-dust-attack-september-create-30-day-transaction-backlog-1515981UK-based mining service CoinWallet is gearing up to conduct a stress test of the Bitcoin network in early September, which it said will likely render most standard wallet software "worthless" and create "nearly a 30-day backlog".
A CoinWallet representative told IBTimes in an email exchange: "I don't have a set date, but it will be early September. I'm too busy this month to fully devote a large amount of time to executing the 'test'. Those were not real "spam attacks" because they used fixed and relatively low fees (0.2 mBTC/kB), so the backlog was easily bypassed by clients who knew what was going on. A real spam atttack will try to ajust the fees dynamically so as to keep some significant fraction of the legitimate traffic perpetually out of the blockchain, even while the legitimate clients adjust their fees to try to get through. At least that interview gave a plausible explanation for the "stress tests": Coinwallet.eu has a wallet that, they claim, will correctly compute the fee needed to get through the traffic jams... that they create themseves. Hum. It would be diabolically nice if someone else did a REAL spam attack during their stress test, so as to really test their supersmart wallet (and other supersmart wallets out there). Their "stress test" may even save the spam attacker some coins... If there ever was anyone who deserved to be DDOS'd to infinity and beyond it would be the coinwallet people. I think the Bitcoin community should all go together and pay for the CEO's apartment to be surrounded by PA systems that go "PING!" 120 times a minute each in order to "stress test" his ability to not jump out of the window. |
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9 up votes on such an idiotic comment that makes no sense. This is internet. Trolls are new rising stars in this decade. Bitcoin price is stuck at 225$, I think it goes down to 190-200$ again this week. If the market indeed see bitcoin prices will stuck or down. because the issue of Bitcoin XT is still quite influential Don't worry, the evil XT node IP's are under UDP flood ddos attack. Should quiet those wascally wabbits down so moon launch can commence. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10140981This has all been foretold...   |
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There should be soon a pump or a dump. LTC looks like a bearish pennant (BTC more like a wedge), and BTC may follow.
Regarding the bid sum / ask sum ratio, on Bitfinex, Bitstamp, BTC-E and Coinbase, it has recovered and looks bullish, but on Huobi looks bearish.
Sounds like flat to me |
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@cyclotronmajesty
You're still wet behind the ears and way too emotional to be day trading. Either cash out or hodl. There are plenty of tutorials and educational sites on trading that can help you get the upper hand. Do paper trading consistently and see when/if your simulated stash increases. If you hodl and sell your coins at $2500 you should be ready by then to carefully dip your toes into the shark infested waters again.
It's not free money. You have to have the upper hand.
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ONLY for donations? Wouldn't that mean that it will be converted into fiat and thus sold?
Yeah! This is how Satoshi will dump his coins! .. -.. .. --- - |
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Paywalled. Here's the article.  Oh yeah!  |
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I understand you quite a bit better now. I've worked up against the military myself (not in, not for, but renting out property) and I would think it would be the epitome of everything you're against. If you want to go bark-raving-mad, try negotiating with the military. It's mind bending stupidity on an epic scale.
I've seen how the British armed forces operates up close and it's a wonder they can dress themselves, let alone fight anyone. I used to rent military land for events. Once upon a time we arrived at our site and a bunch of Marines ran up to us in a panic and told us to stay away as they were testing some type of secret grenade launcher in their APC. They said they'd be gone in half an hour when the truck arrived. Three days later we were joyriding in their APC and going down the local garage to feed them. No one had booked the truck and every time they called for extraction all knowledge of them was denied. A local farmer I met had rented out part of his land for non-lethal weapons excercises (Basically laser tag). Part of the agreement was that he should have access to the forrest at set dates in order to extract timber. When he went to extract the timber he was told that his whole forrest was riddled with undetonated explosives. Including parts he had not rented out to the military. Now, he was compensated ten-fold, but... |
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who will bother to open an account with coinbase to buy bitcoins so they can buy stuff while paying a high fee ?? whats the point.. pay high fees.. instead use a debit card doesnt cost end user nothing to use a debit card and its easy.. no reason to use bitcoin that has multiples of issues that we all are aware of .. and if you are a gun owner and support the second amendment then you need to oppose the implementation of the "blockchain blacklists" code. i happen to be one of the "dwayne" brothers and i think your "blockchain blacklists" is a real cute trick. obviously there is only once choice.. cripple bitcoin with low bandwidth, slow payments with high fees ...... RIP XT or bitcoin make your choice. about to get smacked down by the bear troll fud (i gotta get me one these cameras!) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhCNbdIFT4Indeed. What is the point of buying bitcoins to buy stuff? That is the question maybe you should ask yourself. Did you consider maybe you did not have the right idea about what Bitcoin's real utility is? Bitcoin's utility is using it to buy stuff online. And it is close to being to the point where you can drop your bank. It is merely a currency, you switch to whatever currency is best for the situation. I live in Germany but work for the military so I have access to the military base. Everything on the military base requires dollars, everything else requires euros. I am used to going back and forth between currencies. I don't "buy dollars" and watch the value fluctuate. I convert some euros to dollars and get enough for things I might need for that week. I convert bitcoins to euros with enough currency to pay for things in the near future. My reserve currency is bitcoins because it is easier to store and travel with bitcoins than with cash and that is what I am paid in. I don't worry too much about the value fluctuation other than spending more when the price goes up a lot and holding off when the price drops. Mind=Blown You work for the military? Isn't that the closest thing to living in a communist system in the west? A miniature planned command economy? Mind=Ultra Blown I work for the military (contractor). I'm not in the military. It would be like working for communist government elites who need shit to actually work because they can't get stuff working within their system, you get the money and can get the benefits of their system (cheaper/free food/gas) but being able to live in the private sector enjoying the free market. Still have to work with the incompetence of the communist system though. I understand you quite a bit better now. I've worked up against the military myself (not in, not for, but renting out property) and I would think it would be the epitome of everything you're against. If you want to go bark-raving-mad, try negotiating with the military. It's mind bending stupidity on an epic scale. |
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who will bother to open an account with coinbase to buy bitcoins so they can buy stuff while paying a high fee ?? whats the point.. pay high fees.. instead use a debit card doesnt cost end user nothing to use a debit card and its easy.. no reason to use bitcoin that has multiples of issues that we all are aware of .. and if you are a gun owner and support the second amendment then you need to oppose the implementation of the "blockchain blacklists" code. i happen to be one of the "dwayne" brothers and i think your "blockchain blacklists" is a real cute trick. obviously there is only once choice.. cripple bitcoin with low bandwidth, slow payments with high fees ...... RIP XT or bitcoin make your choice. about to get smacked down by the bear troll fud (i gotta get me one these cameras!) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhCNbdIFT4Indeed. What is the point of buying bitcoins to buy stuff? That is the question maybe you should ask yourself. Did you consider maybe you did not have the right idea about what Bitcoin's real utility is? Bitcoin's utility is using it to buy stuff online. And it is close to being to the point where you can drop your bank. It is merely a currency, you switch to whatever currency is best for the situation. I live in Germany but work for the military so I have access to the military base. Everything on the military base requires dollars, everything else requires euros. I am used to going back and forth between currencies. I don't "buy dollars" and watch the value fluctuate. I convert some euros to dollars and get enough for things I might need for that week. I convert bitcoins to euros with enough currency to pay for things in the near future. My reserve currency is bitcoins because it is easier to store and travel with bitcoins than with cash and that is what I am paid in. I don't worry too much about the value fluctuation other than spending more when the price goes up a lot and holding off when the price drops. Mind=Blown You work for the military? Isn't that the closest thing to living in a communist system in the west? A miniature planned command economy? Mind=Ultra Blown |
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That's right ChartBuddy, filthy rich. |
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Bitmain released another world crushing product. This will cause a rally. We will become filthy rich.
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Considering where the difficulty will go we're looking at 1 year to ROI.
Yes, if you were starting from scratch the ROI would probably be a year or more but everyone's situation is different. My current hardware paid for itself in July so if I sell my 20 S5s for something like $300 each I would have $6000 towards 5 S7s. That would make my initial investment about $3500 with 24,300 GH/s, 6050 Watts, and power at 0.10. If you plug those numbers in it shows 94 days to break even. Even if difficulty made a huge jump in the next 3 months it would look like maybe 188 days to break even for me. Like I said, everyone's situation is different. Now that you save on electric you can run double the hashing power with the S7 as you could before and you will do it. If everybody does the same thing as you it will cause a major global hash rate speed the BTC price will drop DIFF will go through the roof and the market will crash and all your S7 will be worth nothing. anyway that's life. but the price of the S7 is ridiculous. Look at the global hash rate since the S5+ came out it went from 380 PH/s to 416 PH/s. Now how much higher you think its going to go until there is a big CRAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH ! WELL GREED CONTROLS THE MARKET THATS LIFE. BITMAIN SHOULD KNOW WITH THAT PRICE FOR THE S7. If everyone did like clgrissom3 we would have another bull run and we would all be swimming around in gold paint and drying it off with dollar bills. |
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Considering where the difficulty will go we're looking at 1 year to ROI.
Yes, if you were starting from scratch the ROI would probably be a year or more but everyone's situation is different. My current hardware paid for itself in July so if I sell my 20 S5s for something like $300 each I would have $6000 towards 5 S7s. That would make my initial investment about $3500 with 24,300 GH/s, 6050 Watts, and power at 0.10. If you plug those numbers in it shows 94 days to break even. Even if difficulty made a huge jump in the next 3 months it would look like maybe 188 days to break even for me. Like I said, everyone's situation is different. Not really. You could just sell those machines and call it quits. Every purchase needs to stand on its own feet or there's no point to it. On the flip side, I don't believe 16nm or 14nm processes will improve efficiency much beyond what the S7 can deliver. And 8-11nm is 3-4 years away. We might be looking at a miner that will be competitive for a couple of years after ROI is reached. |
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Considering where the difficulty will go we're looking at 1 year to ROI.
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Pool operators are really miners, along with solo miners and p2pool miners. The people who sell their hashing to pool operators are just providing hashing. Correct if you are not running a node and are not receiving coin base rewards, you are just providing hashing.
Hashing is the important bit. |
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