Bitcoin Forum
June 01, 2024, 10:19:36 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 [155] 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 »
3081  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin powered Amazon Web Services on: October 10, 2012, 07:52:26 PM
That's trickier.  Amazon owns the payment flow on that product. 
They'll get what they expect. They expect a credit card transaction. Every bitcoin purchase on the front end will trigger corresponding credit card transaction on the back end. This will be the credit card of web store owner.
3082  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Distributed bond markets and pay-to-policy outputs on: October 10, 2012, 07:40:03 PM
But can we go further and design p2p low-trust replacements for other parts of the financial system?
It would be a mistake trying to mimic current financial system in its entirety. 3/4 of it is just parasitic add-on built on top of fiat currency system. I'm pretty sure that future perception for bitcoin will change from currency to a broader meaning of transaction vehicle for all financial instruments. The idea for colored satoshis is good one.
3083  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: With GLBSE gone, we can start fresh on new lands. on: October 10, 2012, 04:40:49 PM
lets say you connect from Iceland, you would still have to comply with Iceland laws.
You can connect from space.
3084  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin powered Amazon Web Services on: October 10, 2012, 04:06:14 PM
Anyone interested in a new app that would allow for AWS to be consumed using bitcoins as payment method?
I'm interested in a new app that would allow for Amazon Webstore http://www.amazonservices.com/content/webstore-by-amazon.htm?id=hm1 to be consumed using bitcoins as payment method?
3085  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 10:19:23 PM
The path looks to be something along the lines of:
You are quite right to be disappointed, markm. The future of OT and OT Server in particular doesn't look very rosy in light of what SEC have done to Nefario. The only solution to overcome this tyranny is decentralization as much as possible.
3086  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 09:42:37 PM
legally there is all manner of precedence for the world wide web being a vehicle for interstate communication.
There is only one principal solution as far as I can see. The US government should ban the use of this international vehicle (aka WWW) for interstate communication when such a communication is unlawful from domestic point of view. Technically speaking, the US government should start filtering the Web for their citizens. Looks like in such cases they prefer to stop the entire vehicle instead even if they violate legitimate rights of non US citizens in different jurisdictions?
3087  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 08:07:08 PM
Becoin, we know the law is outdated.  But it is very clear.

If you advertise or promote shares of a company or investment using interstate communication, you are under the jurisdiction of the SEC in the US.  That includes telegraph, telephone, mail, internet, email, cell phone, facebook, twitter, anything.
What are you talking about? The Web is not interstate communication channel and certainly is not a property of the US government. It is a global media. Tim Berners-Lee, a scientist at CERN Switzerland, invented the World Wide Web (WWW) in 1989. He invented the basics like hypertext (html), the web server, web browser, and gave them to the people of the world not to US government. Wake up!
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/about/WebStory-en.html

3088  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 04:46:52 PM
It doesnt matter...
Of course. Whatever they are, no arguments matter if the status quo is at stake. No surprise. This is why bitcoin has such a disign!

Guess what, it wont stick. Prove me wrong by getting a no action letter.
What you are basically asking me is to get a taxi license for my automobile from the syndicate of horse buggy drivers 2 years after internal combustion engine was invented. Are you insane or just pretending?!
3089  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 02:51:00 PM
No one is saying bitcoins are securities. This is about bonds and shares on GLBSE.
Again, the "face value" of those bonds is not in fiat currency, apples, oranges, bananas and basically anything else, but in bitcoins. And one bitcoin, again, is the standard measure of trust in the bitcoin network. Why should Alice register how much she trusts Bob... in SEC? Is your point that SEC must give permission to Alice how much she can trust Bob, Carol, and David?!
3090  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 01:57:54 PM
you will convince ANY judge bitcoins have no value?
This was already explained a dozen of times. Bitcoin has value, but only to the person that holds corresponding private key. This is in sharp contrast to the universal value of fiat currencies, apples, bananas, oranges, and basically anything else.

trading securities for basically anything constitutes a sale.
Trading is a sale!? Who knows? It might be a buy as well?

Just like bitcoin is not money, apples, bananas, oranges etcetera, bitcoin bonds are not securities. Trying to put an existing tag on bitcoin and digital assets measured in bitcoins will lead you to nowhere. Every judge or regulatory agency will understand this sooner or later. Obviously, you will be among the last to get it.
3091  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 12:46:49 PM
if the token has actual market value
Actual market value?! What is that? Everything in this world has some value for somebody at some place under certain circumstances! Just another meaningless terminology designed to make laws suitable for status quo guards... This is why bitcoin was invented. Math is math. 2+2=4 even if a regulators tells you it is actually 3.5 if existing law is properly applied.
3092  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The future of Bitcoin is illegal on: October 09, 2012, 11:42:02 AM
How does the average joe participate?
Nothing new under the sun. During the entire humankind history always criminals were the first to adopt every new technology. Should we stop developing new technologies just because of this fact?
3093  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
Bitcoin bond is not debt. Bitcoin obligation != Debt

By definition: Every debt can be repaid with the legal tender. This is what the law says. If I owe you 2 apples and I have no apple but want to pay you US dollars instead (if we are in the US), you have no right to refuse or you'll be sent to jail. Everyone can repay their debt whatever it is in dollars fbecause it is the legal tender in the US. This is not the case with bitcoins. If you have to repay your bitcoin obligation you have to find someone willing to exchange their bitcoins for your dollars and just after that having bitcoins you can repay your loan.

As already said, bitcoin is trust. Sometimes more, sometimes less trust as per your wallet.dat file. And as we all know, all the dollars, euros, pounds or yen in the world can not make people have greater confidence and trust more in current fiat money system. Bitcoin obligation can be paid only in bitcoins. Period.

Remember: bitcoin bond is not debt, because it lacks a major characteristic of what debt is described by current law. You can repay a bitcoin obligation only with bitcoins. It is technically impossible to pay your bitcoin obligation with US dollars, and no law can help you!

3094  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 10:17:37 AM
It doesnt matter if the debt...
There is no debt!
3095  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 09, 2012, 09:20:16 AM
This wasn't about possession, but it was about issuing and creating a market.
Issuing what?
A security.
This was already discussed. Your definition for "security" does not match characteristics of the shares measured in bitcoins and traded against bitcoins on the bitcoin stock exchange! Those assets measured in bitcoin terms do not have any of the material or monetary interest described in your definition. They would have such if they represent and are traded against fiat currencies, oranges and apples, but they are not! They represent pure bitcoin assets and are traded against bitcoins. And bitcoin is not money! Your definition of money does not correspond to what bitcoin is. Or, your broad definition of money is including just every object material or digital in this Universe. Are you going to regulate for the purpose of taxation every transfer of every object from point A to point B?

One bitcoin is the standard measurement of trust that participants in the bitcoin network have among each other. You can not tax and regulate my private relations and confidence in some other people or entities just because trust increases/decreases and changes from time to time. I don't need enforced by the government agency to tell me whom should I trust and to what extend. If you continue to insist you should regulate bitcoin transactions the next step would be to tax and regulate my email messages signed with my pgp key. Because if there is a valuable information in there those messages can be securitized? And who decides this information is of value or not? Are you going to tax and regulate the entire message exchange on the Web?



3096  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 08, 2012, 08:55:31 PM
As the owner of the bond, you could  sell them to whoever you want for whatever you want.
Of course, I can. I may need issuer's permission or not, depends on my contract with him. Certainly, I don't need your permission as a regulator to do that. Bitcoin changes almost everything. Find another job!
3097  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 08, 2012, 08:19:59 PM
You can sell your gigamining bonds to me or anyone you want, and gigaVPS wouldnt have a clue
That will be the case if I sell for fiat currency. In bitcoins is different. He will know if he cares to know. Information for every bitcoin transaction becomes publicly available in 10 minutes via the information for the blockchain. Again, only people directly involved will know what this transaction is about. Again, there is no need for a trusted middleman to verify identity of transacting parties.
3098  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 08, 2012, 07:19:01 PM
The topic of this thread is a stock exchange and GLBSE assets are not in your name
They ARE in my name. It is just another question that you don't know my name, but it is none of your business either as it is concerning me and my counterparty. Everything I purchase with bitcoins is in my name! Every bitcoin I spend contains both the contract and my signature. The reason for this is already stated several times. I can't pay with bitcoins if I don't sign it with my private key. A bitcoin marketplace does not need a trusted third party to verify identity! I fully understand your pain as a trusted middleman but can't help. You are not needed anymore!
3099  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 08, 2012, 07:06:02 PM
Therefor Euro == Legal Tender.
In the eurozone, yes. Euro is the legal tender. In the US the legal tender is US dollar. Where is the fallacy?

Private currency is just private currency. What we are talking about is what is money? From Mr Bernanke's statement becomes clear that gold is not money. Therefore the only option left is the dollar. The dollar is the legal tender as well.

3100  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: So, stock exchange is not allowed in usa using bitcoins? on: October 08, 2012, 06:29:05 PM
Where do you get this idea that money = legal tender?
Mr. Bernanke "Gold is not money"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTBhsEliUE

If gold is not money in the US then only money is the dollar bill. The dollar bill is the only legal tender in US!

Quote
Any kind of object or secure verifiable record that fulfills these functions can serve as money.
There is a big difference between "can serve as money" and "is money"?! Over the course of human history, many things have been used as money: metals, stones, shells, grains, livestock, fuel, land.
Pages: « 1 ... 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 [155] 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!