You meant that, yes, but it's wrong.

No, they couldn't.

Yes, they could decide to create all the coins right from the start, with the first created block, or even within the genesis-block,
but the work needs to be done anyway.

First time that I agree with what you say, well, not totally.
You not only don't understand completely, you don't understand it at all.  

No, no and again no!

You still don't understand Bitcoin.

The work can NOT be avoided!
Even in the far future, when all <21million BTC are created the work still needs to be done!


Did you even read anything posted on the last 6pages? I guess not.

Just click on the green/red icon in the lower right corner, that'll open up the server-window, choose one, click OK, done.

I would try to switch to another server.
Had to do that sometimes and usually it works.

They first need some support and interest  from the community to add TRC, but didn't care about anything like that with NVC.
That's kinda strange, isn't it?
I guess you really have to send them a couple of thousand coins to workaround that requirement.

Haven't had much sympathy for BTC-e before, but with the recent NVC-drama it's all gone now.
I couldn't care less about them supporting any coin, or all of them.

I'd exchange them, if you send them to my VirWox account (Nelson Swindlehurst).
Can't pay 0.15BTC though, that's twice the current market-price.

0.072BTC seems ok to me, take it or leave it. 

You should have read my part about the central authority above.

It needs to be done, no matter what.
If I want to transfer some coins from my account to yours, our transaction has to be stored somewhere,
either this storing is done in a central database, run by a central authority.
or it's done in a distributed database run by everyone.

We chose the latter, the distributed database and we call that database "the blockchain".
To create that database, THAT is what mining does, it creates the blocks that build the blockchain and which store all transactions.
Mining is not about creating coins, it's about creating storage-space.
If we don't create that database, we have no space to store any transactions at all and all coins (no matter how they are created or distributed in the first place) would be worth- and useless.

Without the work done by miners (rather call them block-creators), we have not only no coins, we also have no payment system, we wouldn't be able to transfer anything to anyone.

Sigh, you still haven't understood:
It's not the production that was decided to work that way, it's the way the system works, the production, or rather initial distribution of coins is a side-effect of that way.
Satoshi could also have chosen to simply create all coins from the start and give them away to anyone he likes, but he didn't, he chose to fairly distribute the coins among those that keep the system running.

And here's the better idea you come up with:
a central authority in control of everything,
a central authority to check your biometric identity to decide if you get some coins or not,
a central authority that has the power to dissallow you to send transactions to certain individuals (terrorists, wikileaks, enemies of the state),
a central authority that also has the power freeze your account and assets at a whim (because you're a terrorist, wikileaks, enemy of the state),
a central authority that most likely will abuse its powers.

That's why we need a system that is independent of ANY authorities, if you don't like it, use PayPal (although they won't give you any coins for free either).


Anyway, I suggest you read a bit more about Bitcoin, what it is, why it was deeply needed and how exactly it works, maybe.....just maybe you'll understand someday why people value it.
Sorry to say, but as long as you don't understand what it is and how it works, it makes no sense to argue at all.

Over and out.

I'm not supporting anything,
I just don't care what your definition is, or the governments definition, cuz I have my own and that's enough for me. 

You treat, define, explain Bitcoin however you want and I'll do whatever I want. Deal?

So, let me rephrase that:
You don't know what Bitcoin is, how it works, or what it's good for, but came up with an idea that is somehow better?
How can you even decide that your idea is better, if you haven't understood the idea behind Bitcoin yet?

The whole point behind Bitcoin is, that it doesn't need a central authority.
You didn't even get that.

You have to do a lot of research.

Any transaction in the Bitcoin-network is a real transaction.
Without that work, not a single transaction would be possible, so BTC could have never been used, ever.

That's the thing you guys don't get,
the process called mining is not about generating, or distributing coins, it's about making transactions possible and secure.


As stated a couple of times now, it's not useless work, it's work that keeps the system running.
It's work needed to be done by someone.
No work == No transactions == No payment system == No nothing.

Again, do some research to learn how Bitcoin works.

A hundred jumps in the air can't process a single transaction.

It seems you have no idea about how Bitcoin works.
Do some research, please.

And that's exactly the point, we need a way to publicly track transactions and that's what so called mining does.
Someone has to do the work of tracking transactions, if you don't reward it, noone will do it.

When I (or any other super-early adopter (super, because we're still in Bitcoins very early days)) started mining, bitcoins were worth close to nothing, so I did work for close to nothing, just the same as people that start today, they will get close to nothing, deal with it.

You're under the false assumption, that early-miners earned a lot by mining.
They didn't!
IF they earned a lot, it's because they kept their coins, so they actually earned a lot by speculating, not by mining.

And I don't see how it's similar in any way to a ponzi scheme.
In a ponzi scheme those that come in early win, those that come in late lose, which is not the case here, those that came in early might have lost everything and those that come in now, or even later, don't lose anything.


It doesn't matter what people use Bitcoin for in the future, I'm not assuming anything here, I take it as it comes.
You want to use it as a currency? Fine with me.
You want to use it as a store of value? I'm ok with that too.
Why would or should I care? It's yours, treat it like you wish.

No, he didn't.
He wants anyone to get an equal share, no matter if they did any work, or not.
He's assuming that those that did the early work did nothing, which is clearly untrue.
He's also assuming that they somehow got rich doing that work, which is also untrue.

Lots of false assumptions flowing around here.

Those nerds that started this cryptocurrency got rewarded.
Those that keep the system running, by creating blocks and processing transactions that way, get rewarded.
What's unfair about that?

Why should anyone get anything for doing nothing?
And why would it be fair to give those that don't do anything the same share as those that do all the work?

I can't think of any way to initially distribute bitcoins in a more fair way than the one Satoshi came up with.

Well, as you say yourself, its definition depends on your point of view.

You're free to see, define and treat it as you like, a currency, a resource, an asset, whatever,
but anyone else is also free to have another point of view, another definition, treating it differently than you do.

Not each person on this planet owns a computer, or access to the internet, how would you deal with those? Not that equal anymore if you just ignore them.

And biometric identification? Are you serious, or just trolling? 

Bitcoin has properties of money/a currency.
Bitcoin therefore can be and is used as money/a currency.
Yet you (and it seems you alone) claim that it's not money/a currency.

What's your definition of money/a currency?

Uhm...I think you mixed that up the wrong way, 
it should be more like 1EUR = 1.2-1.7USD (currently around 1.34).

It's supply and demand what drives the price, not the network-hashrate.
Doesn't matter what the hashrate is, if there's thousands of people running ASICs, or just a few running CPUs, the supply will be the same.

Miners generate ~3200BTC per day, trading-volume on markets is 20+times as much, so the influence of ASICs on the market-price is miniscule.

Das tollste User-Interface macht btc-e aber nicht seriöser, oder mir sympathischer.
Solang man da nur mit ein paar LTC, oder NVC rumspielt, mag das ja noch vertretbar sein, aber meine Bitcoins, oder gar Bankverbindung vertraue ich einem Exchange, der mir nichtmal sagt, wer ihn betreibt, sicher nicht an.

Die jüngsten Ereignisse bezüglich NVC machen den Laden nur noch unseriöser und mir noch unsympathischer, als es ohnehin schon der Fall war.