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3201  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: [POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes on: October 01, 2023, 05:04:46 PM
A way to think about AI is to look at chess

will studying AI moves or playing against an AI help you become a chessmaster?
no it won't.

can it be used as a resource to help you improve and teach you new things, as well as study your mistakes and blunders? yes it can.
I think it is obvious that we are not going to end up with anything that would be "learnable" or whatever you want to call it from the AI itself because AI also learns from humans, so we teach AI what to do ourselves, then it does what we teach it to do. In that logic, that means if a human wants to learn from AI, they could very well learn from the people who gave AI all that information as well, and to be fair in the chess example, there are a lot of books and videos that can make you a great chess player. Doesn't mean you will be the best, but AI wouldn't make you the best neither.

So it is the same with any AI related thing, it will not help you get better more than what we already have, if you prefer AI as a tool to be better that's fine, but it wouldn't be suddenly a new thing, it already existed and just changed the wrap that's it.
AI is only but a tool and I think it is better used as an assistant because if it's used as the sole source to get all the needed information to get something done then I think there's definitely going to be a gap between desired results and what you actually get, let's not forget AI can't be logical enough as it is limited within the confined of information made available to it.

AI needs update in other to be efficient enough as the information AI has are usually imputed by humans so I a scenario where it's yet to be updated with recent happenings it's definitely going to give the old information which was made available to it as at the time it was been programed, so it's better not to totally depend on AI as it isn't 100% and can't be 100% reliable at anytime.

For football predictions you will agree with about how one needs be logical sometimes with their taughts and points of view inorder to make reasonable predictions but with AI as I stated earlier it's not logical it only make a cumulative of information supplies to it previously or over the times, so it's very possible AI will give wrong and unreliable predictions and for that reason I can not make use of it for my predictions.
3202  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2023/24 on: October 01, 2023, 04:51:04 PM
Almera and Granada had a game that got me wondering if at some point Almera was sleeping because how would you let some one who was three goals down in your home come to an equalizer with you in the second half and this happened such that you couldn't secure a single goal again in the second half of the game and finally had to share points with the visiting team.

Almera has sadly not won any game in the last five games as they have lost all three and drew one of the games, they have only three points so far after Playing seven games, it's such a sad result for them as they may most likely be relegated by the end of the season if they don't strive to get some more points and see their selves out of the danger zone.

Granada sadly suffers the same fate as Almera both in results and position on the standings, they may most likely be relegated too by the end of the season as they have been unable to win a single game since the beginning of the season the only have a few draw and mostly loosing streaks on their records they are the two worst teams in the la Liga this season.
3203  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: October 01, 2023, 04:30:40 PM
Brentford dominated the game against Nottingham forest, they had all the possession of the ball, they were away but they still performed well although it e ended in a draw but then I wouldn't say Brent ford played badly as in the second half of the game they did played well with a good attack making the ball most concentrated at the post of the home team.

Nottingham forest has won just one game so far since the season began and had two losses and two draws, they are at the Eleventh position on the standing with just Eight points after Seven games so far, it's not a good result they were getting this season as compared to their results last season, the last time they met with Brentford they lost 2-1 to Brentford.

Brentford had started the season on a really bad not as they have never won a game this season, they lost three games and drew two in their last five games, they are at the thirteenth position on the standing with just seven points from seven games. They may most likely not finish top five if they continue with more losses this season.
3204  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: When the fun stops on: October 01, 2023, 03:44:01 PM
Some people already feel like they are not having fun, because what they have in mind is making money, to all people that feels this way, If you feel like you aren't having fun I believe for the greater good, it's better to take a break from gambling and do something else.

Do you agree or disagree?

In this situation when we feel that we are not having fun at all while spending money in gambling, it can be said that it is a sign of addiction.
Of course I have to agree that we should stop at this stage, although I have to say that most gamblers will not realize that this situation as a sign of addiction.
Due to some reasons such as recovering losses or aiming to get more wins, most gamblers will continue playing although they do not feel the fun any longer while playing the game.
When the fun stops it's most ideal you as a gamble stops or take a long break and if you so desire, come back afresh. The main reason behind gambling I think should be for fun and not basically making tons of cash although that aswell is very possible, just like every other games, when you play them you play to have fun and probably while away your spare time but after then if the game is no longer giving that pleasure of fun you probably stop or takes a break after which you may continue.

The fun in gambling comes mainly when you bet on your favourite team or better still teams you know too well and know what they can be capable of at certain times and if it turns out your pick is a win you get to make money while having some fun but sadly most gamblers do the opposite, the pick teams they may know nothing about and place a guess and when it turns out against them they see no fun in it.

Whenever yo loose so we'll that you have to start chasing after your losses then you should know you are no longer having fun it's time you take a break or temporarily quit, maybe your greed has grown too high that it's causing you more losses, go get something doing and when you come back at it again you may have better mindset and strategy to play better as you are now in a better State of mind.
3205  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: French Soccer League Predictions and Discussion Thread (Ligue 1) on: October 01, 2023, 03:27:42 PM
PSG are doing well with their strikers - they have Mbappe, Ramouche, Kolo Mouani and Dembele. This detachment can solve all issues. Yesterday's draw disappointed many fans (and bettors), but PSG are still only two points from first place. I think that Luis Enrique is now maximally concentrated on the game against Newcastle, which will take place in two days, so yesterday’s result is not very important.
It's out of place to say yesterday's results isn't very important as PSG is also looking forward to be the winners of the Ligue 1 title this season as they have started the league on a good note and has until yesterday made it to the top of the standings, I don't think the champions league is more important than the Ligue 1 title as they have more chances with the Ligue 1 than they would with the champions league.

PSG I must say disappointed me yesterday as the played a team I could classify as a very weak one owing to the fact that this team is at danger zone and should use PSG to get themselves pulled out of that position, but it was sad how PSG let them to secure a point through the draw at their expenses of staying at the top of the standings, now the happen to be at the fifth position.

The position where PSG stands at now I don't see it as healthy enough as any further mistake will keep pushing them down and that will exert more pressure on them to perform well at the champions league and try to coming up the standings on the Ligue 1 table. So at this point I feel every game both in the champions league and the Ligue 1 is very important to PSG as either of this could cost them a lot.
3206  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Italian League Prediction Thread (Serie A) on: October 01, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Juventus will be hosted by Atlanta later today and I don't see this match as one that's going to be easy for Juventus as Atlanta is not a Weak team at all they have very good record in the Seria A this season, they happen to be just one point behind Juventus and they have lost only one game in their last give games, the also happens to have stayed unbeaten at home since the season began.

Juventus has lost and drew one match in their last five games so far in the Seria A this season. They happen to be at the fourth position with thirteen points, they have not lost any game at home aswell, they are unbeaten at home so far. the last time they met with Atlanta  they drew, they usually find it difficult to defeat Atlanta and they have won Atlanta only twice in their last five meetings.

My favorite for this game should be Juventus but then Atlanta has got the home advantage and this could be a strong one against them as Atlanta is not weak and have got good play tactics, it's very possible it ends a draw again or maybe Atlanta could be able to secure a win because they are at home and wouldn't want to get a beaten for the first time this season at home .
3207  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season on: October 01, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
Something is going on really wrong for Manchester United side lately. First I was thinking that they would defeat Galatasaray with a decent score. But now I have started to change my mind after seeing their horrible performance against Crystal Palace in the EPL. I don't know how but they couldn't defeat them like they did in the EFL Cup.

I mean they even lost to Crystal Palace in Old Trafford. Therefore it looks like the problems are still at a serious level. I don't know if they can manage to play in the Champions League differently. For example if they continue to play like in the Bayern Munich match then they can stay strong there. But if we don't see it then maybe there might be some chance for Galatasaray to steal 1 point in Old Trafford.  Smiley

Manchester United performed well against Crystal Palace in the EFL Cup and against Bayern Munich in the Champions League. I thought Ten Hag might have been able to minimize the problems within the party to a great extent. But after United's performance against Crystal Palace yesterday, I think I was wrong. Manchester United's performance is still weak and erratic. Despite having a strong squad, they are not able to perform well.

The Galatasaray team is one of the strongest teams in the Superliga. The understanding between the players in the team is very good. This is why they are able to play well despite having a mediocre team. On the other hand, the understanding between United's players is poor. And against Galatasaray, Manchester United is likely to lose. I would not say that Manchester United are favorites in this match.
Communication like you rightly stated is key and it could be the reason Manchester united are suffering most of their ordeal in most games, and they keep fluctuating between victory and losses, if the defense line of Manchester united is observed careful the inconsistency in their communication could be noticed without any form of doubt.

Galatasaray may appear to be a weak team but they have got one very vital thing Manchester united lacks, as these players when observe have excellent communication amongst the team players on the pitch, this I think has been the reason behind their performance in their local league as they stand unbeaten since the season, they may not be really good at the champions league but they are in theirs.

The match between this two teams is going to expose the obvious that Manchester united lacks, but then I think it will not be easy on both teams as they would both want to give their best as this is a more competitive league as compared to their local leagues, if only Manchester united will get a better substitute for their two striker who seem to be their problem they could win this game with some goals.
3208  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: October 01, 2023, 02:30:42 PM
Ten Hag was supposed to make an evaluation. Man United competed against Crystal Palace 2 times with the result being 1 win and 1 loss. They played without Rashford and Bruno during the Carabao Cup, but somehow they were able to play freely and their rhythm looked good. Meanwhile, in the Premier League match, Bruno and Rashford were again the main choices in the first team, even though they dominated the match but their rhythm looked monotonous. In my eyes, Man United performed better without Bruno and Rashford.
Rashford and Bruno Fernandes some times make me want to say they are the main problem Manchester united is facing, let's site some instances and check out the obvious, the first match against crystal palace was the carabao cup where Manchester united were able to defeat crystal palace to an amazing 3 goals and crystal palace had no goal at all, Bruno and rashford were not in this game

But in the premier league game against the same crystal palace where rashford and Bruno Fernandes who happens to be key players participated, one will expect the team will do even better having their key players on ground this time but sadly they reverse was the case as they performed even worse, not been able to secure a single goal.

Although they dominated the game and played well but the fact that there were strikers present who couldn't get least a goal for them is something that is worth bothering over, I expected Manchester to get even more goals, if they were able to get three goal in their absence then they should even do more with them present but sadly this two players are always wanting to score all the goal and showing some level of selfishness.
3209  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2023/24 on: October 01, 2023, 10:47:03 AM
Indeed, Real Madrid showcased their class and settled their score against the tough opponent, Girona, with a convincing 3-0 victory. It would have been even better if Nacho hadn't received a red card.
With this victory, Real Madrid was able to shift the top of the class and be at the top of the class for a while, it is very clear that they are in the right position and are back in their realm, Girona is not a random club even though they were slaughtered at home at least 3rd place in the class is not an easy thing for this club  , of course an extraordinary achievement for Girona over the last few weeks is still being able to maintain the current points.
[/quote]
Real Madrid had an excellent victory against Girona which i must commend, they didn't allow previous losses affect their minds and they seem to have recovered so fast and won two games including that of yesterday against Girona. Although they were away and didn't get to posses the ball or lead on the statistics board but they won which was the most important.

Girona finally got to suffer their first loss and it was sad it had to be at home but then they did played well, as they had a good attack but their defense was not strong enough to stop Madrid from winning, this had cost them three point and they have dropped on the standings by three point as they are now at the third position with nineteen points while Madrid is now at the top with twenty one points.

Although there is still hope for Girona to finish amongst the top five teams this season, they would have suffered even more loss yesterday if Madrid hasn't had a red card, there could have been a fourth goal I guess, it was really impressive how Madrid got all this goals even with a faulty front line which we think didn't have the capacity to produce much goals.
3210  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Germany League - Bundesliga Prediction Thread on: October 01, 2023, 10:28:02 AM
yes, but we can see competition from the top 7 teams in the standings. The Bundesliga will be even tougher if the competition is like this, and that is very interesting.
Last season we only saw Dortmund and Munich leaving other teams behind. but I hope this season will be more exciting when more teams compete consistently for trophies at the end of the season.
Leverkusen is probably the strongest team that will challenge Munich this season. and I hope Leverkusen can be consistent.
The bundesliga is getting more competitive and I'm getting to love it even the more as the suspense that is gradually coming with each game keep dragging the attention of people to the league. This level of competition is what makes the games fun to watch, if a particular set of team keeps wining it take away the fun from the league as we have nothing to keep in anticipation for every new week.

The recent competition amongst the top five teams where they drop points and later gain points every weekend is really electrifying as one would first think a team like Bayern Munich would continually remain at the top of the standings, but it was really interesting seeing them struggle to get a point yesterday so as not to drop down badly on the standing of which they are now at the third position all the way from the first position.

Leverkusen on the other hand has really been at their best as they seem to get even stronger by every passing game they play, they keep going higher, this is actually not really expected as it can be seen relatively as surprising if we compare their performance last season to this season, I think they are really having it good with their coach as it's evident in their results.
3211  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Italian League Prediction Thread (Serie A) on: October 01, 2023, 10:18:40 AM
The Quattrick scored in less than 30 minutes completely destroyed Salernitana in today's match.
Intet played very well despite a decent fightback from Salernitana in the first half but for the second half they seemed to struggle to maintain their shape as they were attacked continuously.

Inter returned to form as well as making many people believe that the previous defeat had no impact on them.
I'm quite happy with this result because at least the previous week's defeat wasn't continued and it was an easy game for Inter.
Before the game started inter was the favourite of almost everyone as they were far ahead of salernitana, who were in no way a better contenders to inter, it was a game one could easily predict a win for inter, obviously salernitana would only just try but it will be very erroneous to want to think they could get a win regardless if they are home or away.

Salernutata is a very weak team if place side by side with inter as this was shown in the game, they had to result to been defensive, they couldn't force a good attack for fear of conceding more goals which was eventually inevitable the conceded goals regardless of all the efforts they did put up, they tried with the level of resistance they did showed inter but then it wasn't enough to stop inter.

Inter dominated both halves of the game and got what I will call a deserving victory for themselves, anyways no less was expected of inter in that game, it could be considered a bonus point game for the and if they had performed any less probably In a worse case got a draw, that would have been very disappointing of them but then inter had the day congrats to them
3212  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: October 01, 2023, 10:05:04 AM
I don't think Ten Hag is able to bring United out of this difficult phase, 7 matches with 9 points is a very difficult situation for fans to understand. I hope Rashford and Bruno are better off just being on the bench, when both of them don't play United can win easily.
Manchester united lacks creativity, theirs strikers seem to lack creative moves and don't want to make good assistance instead they usually want to score the goal to themselves, this very obvious with Marcus rashfod and Bruno Fernandes, whenever they have the ball to them selves around the eighteen box of their opponent they seem to find it difficult to make passes rather they just want to score goals.

In as much as the team needs goals to win any match, it mustn't be a particular set of persons who should shoulder the responsibility of scoring a goal in a situation you find every tight good assist to some who is in a good position will also help achieve the goal which the team needs, what is most important is the goal, this greed and pride of theirs shouldn't be above the interest of the team.

It's no obvious because in the games where they were absent the other players were able to communicate properly, make good assist and had goals that got them a win and it was very sad the loss was suffered at home, I think it's high tome ten hag begin to look into the attitude of this players regardless of how good they are as they are gradually putting their interest first and it will be more detrimental to the team if it continues.
3213  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Germany League - Bundesliga Prediction Thread on: September 30, 2023, 10:53:40 PM
Bochum and monchengladbach ended in a 1-3 in the favour of the away team. monchengladbach which happens to be at the thirteenth position on the standing and Bochum happens to be a step away from relegation, they may likely go back to the relegation zone if they further loose any match but I don't hope they will allow that,

They were dominant with the possession of the ball as stated by statistics, but they had less goal attempts and less shits on target  but they were the host and they struggled to get a consolation goal in the second half of the game, they were not too strong enough to resist a win even at their home, but I hope they will improve in their subsequent games ahead.

Monchengladbach may likely not finish top five this season as they really didn't start on a good note and so far they have not had the best results either this happens to be their first win as they have had only one draw and lost all the other matches since the season, so they are most likely not too safe from the relegation zone either, it takes only two losses more and they will be there which is very possible.
3214  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Italian League Prediction Thread (Serie A) on: September 30, 2023, 10:06:04 PM
Lecce vs Napoli

Napoli won the game as expected of them, they were the favorite for the match and they still won and it was an excellent win from Napoli, they also had good possession of the ball both in the first a d second half of the game and we're dominant over Lecce not minding the fact that Lecce was at home, Napoli was able to go home with the complete point.

Lecce had a bad day as they stuffed a loss at home, this happens to be their second loss this season and all the losses so far in this season has been at home although this is the one with the most goal concede, that couldn't resist Napoli enough for them not to win them in their home sadly they now stay at 11rh position wit seven points on the standing after this match.

I hope Lecce dose better in subsequent games as they need More wins to be able to finish amongst the top five teams this season, but if they continue loosing they may most likely not see them self any close, Napoli is seated at the third position on the standing with Fourteen points which if they win another match they may likely climb to the second position.
3215  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Risk management and responsible gaming on: September 30, 2023, 09:34:25 PM
Governments and several organisations work to encourage responsible gaming. This involves establishing betting restrictions, offering support to those who think they have a gambling problem, and participating in self-exclusion programmes.
Risk management and responsible gambling start and end with us alone, if we don't protect ourselves, no one else will be able to do it for us... it's always easy to bypass any restrictions, whoever wants to gamble will always find a way to do it. I think that the government needs to regulate casinos and make sure that casinos offer fair games, without cheating. The government should take care of how casinos work, where they are allowed to work, how they are advertised, and so on, not about us gamblers and how we gamble with our money.
The government has a big role to Play to help gamblers not get addicted as when they do they may turn out problem to the society and the government at large, there are policies that of put in place will help both gamblers and the gambling house and by extension the society at large, in some places it can be seen that the government may have established all of this and put them in place but monitoring and making sure they are been kept is usually the problem.

Sometimes the government fails to monitor and make sure these policies are been adhered to and followed as the government has instructed so the casinos and betting sites operates regardless, some times the people kept in charge to regulate and monitor these policies are the problem as the casino may bribe their way through so they can break these rules and cheat on the gamblers sometimes.

The gamblers may not really be the problem but then every gambler should know that the best protection you can get is that which you make for yourself as no one can protect you any better than you do for yourself, the Casinos will not take your money from you except you bring it to them, you aswell will not loose money except you place a bet.
3216  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The madness of gambling addicts. on: September 30, 2023, 09:15:18 PM
That is, we see celebrities in gambling ads, this ad is shown in prime time on federal channels - and then anyone will think, "Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. You can go in, place a bet on one time." And it is from this moment that the first step towards casinos and other gambling varieties begins. This is exactly what casino promoters are trying to achieve - so that anyone who has watched the advertisement thinks that gambling does not cause any harm.
Seeing celebrities in gambling ads is definitely because they have been paid to do the ads and they aswell have to return value for the money paid to them so it's what they are doing just like everyother person when employed they make sure to do their job for which they are been paid, this does not make the ad dangerous or harmful.

When you pay close attention to these ads they usually leave a piece of advice at the end and I think not heeding to that advice is what causes the problem for most persons, firstly they advised about the age limit that should engage and secondly they advice about gambling responsibly which most persons don't and end up blaming it on the gambling platforms for bringing gambling to them.

Gambling in it entirety is not really bad what is said to be bad is your habit and attitude towards gambling, gambling can actually be fun filled is you want it to but when you allow greed set in your mind and you gamble irresponsibly because you want to get rich quick you gradually tend towards addiction and now blame it on gambling as been bad meanwhile you were initially the problem.
3217  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2023/24 on: September 30, 2023, 09:02:07 PM
Real Madrid did not leave today's win to the closing moment of the game and that's unlike them since they got Jude Bellingham. On a more serious note I believe that they had a good game and performed well. But I think ancelotti the real Madrid coach needs to throw his pride away and go into the market for a quality striker, this is the biggest position I think real Madrid is coming Short on
Yes Real Madrid at the moment do not have a good striker and it is a really big issues for them as they are finding it difficult to get good number of goals except when they happen to meet with a weaker team which they can probably be sure they are way above and do not match with strength and every other thing, then they will be able to get goals.

Since the start of the season the issues with Madrid's strike has been very obvious and we have hoped that it would have been resolved by now most probably by getting good replacement for the current strike force they have now but then I think it's not really possible as they will have to wait till the transfer windows are open again.

Anyways they still gat results even with their defective strikes so I think it's not a thing to really kill their selves over at the moment until they are able to get good replacements but for now they should focus on their tactics and style of play to keep them going in their local league and the champions league aswell, so far they don't really have bad results as their wins outweighs their losses.
3218  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Germany League - Bundesliga Prediction Thread on: September 30, 2023, 07:59:11 PM
Full Time Leipzig 2 vs 2 Bayern Munich

Bad result for Bayern Munich because they have loss full points and their position on current Bundesliga standings dropping to 3rd placed behind two points left from Bayern Leverkusen who winning match in this week against Mainz over 3-0. Although have loss full points, Bayern Munich made great comeback after conceded and loss two goals from Leipzig, Harry Kane and Leroy Sane helped for getting one point. Its not really promising start from Bayern Munich in domestic league, although still early for predicting who will be the winner in this season but Bayern have got two draw and loss maximum four points. Seems difficult for Bayern when facing bigger teams current their performance can't reach top level after getting draw from Leverkusen and today have played draw against Leipzig.
Bayern Munich I would say even managed to secure the draw which earned them the one point which of course is not good for them as it has caused them their position on the bundesliga standing, I expected Bayern Munich knowing how well they are not standing firm in their position on the standing they should have done everything possible to win today's game..

Although I wouldn't say Bayern Munich was playing against a weak team but then they were the favourite of everybody and they aswell had the matching ability to have gotten a win but then they tried a little as they were down in the first half and by the second half they were able to get a draw.  Leverkusen today again showed how prepared they are for this season.

They have stepped up the bundesliga standings and it's really a good one for them I must say as if they maintain this they may be the next champions most likely as the next person who was supposed to be after them (Mainz) was defeated by them today, this showed that they are in their best of forms and can face anybody in the bundesliga this season.
3219  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gambling and it effects on: September 30, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
I think first of all there is a problem of mindset and this is the biggest challenge gamblers suffer and they end up thinking the problem is with the casino or the gambling site but fail to understand it may most likely be from them. Firstly changing the mindset of getting rich quick from gambling as that mind set is what get people to gamble wrongly and get their selves burnt.

Gambling I think is mostly for fun and if seen like this then it makes it easier and healthier for gamblers, have you noticed when the rich gamble they gamble differently from the way the poor gamble and they even end up more profitable from it than the poor do, this is because the make fun from it and not see it as a means to getting rich but when ever it turns in their favor they become richer.

But people who gamble because they want to get rich risk too much and end up sad when it doesn't favour them of which they should know they took more than necessary risk which have coat them the much bit cost them and probably their greed level also contributes to their risk appetite, don't be greedy, gamble for fun not to get rich and that way you will gamble better and not become miserable gambling
3220  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: September 30, 2023, 07:10:07 PM
Although Liverpool lost today but they really tried as they held the game till the 96th minute before the home team could have an opportunity. It's the fact that Liverpool was already down with two red cards and had to defend their only goal at an away match which they tried their best untill the mistake that cost them a goal happened, that goal can not be blamed on the defender as it's obviously a mistake

The match was characterized with too many cards at SW point I had to wonder if the referee's judgements that warrant the cards were actually right because there was over seven cards in the game, klop was smart to make the last set of changes he made as that saved him from getting further red cards which would have been definitely not good for the team.

Tottenham some how didn't play what I will call impressive because how can you be playing a team with two red cards and you find it so difficult to score except for a home goal you wouldn't have a goal and you are playing at your home stadium, I mean that should be considered poor because it was expected they would take advantage of the two men down and probably hit hard bud Liverpool was a better team.
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