Not going thread hopping.
Don't expect me to repeat everything again. You can go read and become smarter if you want. Your investment decisions will be affected by this knowledge. Monero can be 50% attacked for example, because it isn't as popular as Bitcoin. Monero can't become popular because it isn't distributed to the masses. Networks can grow. And you don't think when the GUI drops this thing isn't going to grow? It's .50 cents a coin and can be mined on gpu, it has a much, much, much better chance of being more widely distributed than Bitcoin does. Unless Bitcoin can be fungible, untracable, and unlinkable at the core, it will never be cash. It can't be put any simpler than that--now go make some convoluted argument otherwise. |
|
|
|
Not going thread hopping.
Then you will remain ignorant. Don't expect me to repeat everything again. You can go read and become smarter if you want. Your investment decisions will be affected by this knowledge. Don't expect people to read every post you write on multiple threads--you aren't that interesting. Either get the argument in one place or create links to the entire discussion. If you can't be bothered to do this, I can't be bothered to do it for you. |
|
|
|
I'm saying it won't work without...
What won't work? Any coin that doesn't perform the three functions (fungible, untraceable, unlinkable) won't work as a cash no matter how you distribute or cap it. Yes, but I am saying that any coin that doesn't distribute itself as "free money" to the masses, won't remain viable (for several reasons, please review what I wrote at the other thread carefully) and thus those three qualities won't be sustained if the distribution is not correctly done. Not going thread hopping. My point is that I think what you wrote is a sideshow to the important properties and "free" money isn't as important as motivated money. The state forced citizens to use money. A new money must perform the same valuable service that cash does and let their primal selves motivate them to use it or it won't last. Dark markets created Bitcoin, and once people started realizing it wasn't cash, the demand faltered. And now everyone hopes that it can be made useful by sidechains or as a investment vehicle. Who cares if a currency is free if I can't effectively pay a camgirl without my wife's divorce attorney finding out? Do you really think people are that much dumber than you and can be tricked into accepting a currency that isn't useful as cash as cash? Necessity is what will make or break a currency and I don't need a free coin; I need a useful one. |
|
|
|
I'm saying it won't work without...
What won't work? Any coin that doesn't perform the three functions (fungible, untraceable, unlinkable) won't work as a cash no matter how you distribute or cap it. |
|
|
|
Hard money is a delusion.
What you really want is soft money that is decentralized and thus remains permission-less (censorship-free).
I'd argue what you are talking about here is a need for cash, or least the symbol of cash. And decentralization alone isn't enough to create an ecash. It has to be fungible, untraceable and unlinkable. Bitcoin's only fungible as long as you can guarantee your wallet won't become blacklisted, and as the tracking tech gets more and more sophisticated, this becomes more and more of a crap-shoot. If I'm a "cash only" mom and pop restaurant who relied on a loan from an underworld organization to secure my business and need to pay restitution to secure my business and myself, am I going to risk using a currency that can be used to reveal all my tax revenue (credit) or (cash) one that lets me keep a profit over what I pay to my Bosses--the Mafia, the Yakuza, my kid's College Loan Syndicate? You have to remember that most small business owners aren't technologically sophisticated and cash fills a very pertinent need in their lives. They aren't going to get a degree in sidechains or mixers or tumblers in order to perform their daily business--especially when those things still have a risk of tainting their accounts when the best of practices are followed. The $ symbol exist and a lot of people want a digital equivalent, and BTC won't fill that demand until it is in the core. Right now BTC symbolizes Behind Bars or worse.... I am saying that for as long as loaning money and charging it to the sovereign debt-fiat backstop (i.e. the Logic of Collective Action) is the easier way for the masses to get "free money", then all attempts at non-free money will be subsumed by that aforementioned paradigm which inherently concentrates power. For example, the 50% attack on PoW. So that is why if you are going to succeed, then your perpetual debasement must be high enough to compete, then you need a way to give this away (distribute it) to the masses that can't be gamed such that it really is taken by the wealthy. I solved this design problem finally! I'm saying it won't work without being cash, because tptb have always relied on keeping crime in check by having a cordial relationship with the underworld and the underworld needs cash to function. It's a subtle dance that has been played out since the Romans (at least since then), and has kept societies functional. I'm saying you can't have a cash that only works for the good guys and doesn't work for the bad guys. BTC isn't cash and even the banks can give the "bad guys" a better version of almost cash--do you think those guys don't get prosecuted because they aren't doing what the government wants? Please--  Even if they run the government, it is still what the government wants. |
|
|
|
Good starting point for researching TOR's possible weaknesses: |
|
|
|
Hard money is a delusion.
What you really want is soft money that is decentralized and thus remains permission-less (censorship-free).
I'd argue what you are talking about here is a need for cash, or least the symbol of cash. And decentralization alone isn't enough to create an ecash. It has to be fungible, untraceable and unlinkable. Bitcoin's only fungible as long as you can guarantee your wallet won't become blacklisted, and as the tracking tech gets more and more sophisticated, this becomes more and more of a crap-shoot. If I'm a "cash only" mom and pop restaurant who relied on a loan from an underworld organization to secure my business and need to pay restitution to secure my business and myself, am I going to risk using a currency that can be used to reveal all my tax revenue (credit) or (cash) one that lets me keep a profit over what I pay to my Bosses--the Mafia, the Yakuza, my kid's College Loan Syndicate? You have to remember that most small business owners aren't technologically sophisticated and cash fills a very pertinent need in their lives. They aren't going to get a degree in sidechains or mixers or tumblers in order to perform their daily business--especially when those things still have a risk of tainting their accounts when the best of practices are followed. The $ symbol exist and a lot of people want a digital equivalent, and BTC won't fill that demand until it is in the core. Right now BTC symbolizes Behind Bars or worse.... |
|
|
|
We must fix the internet so as to maintain the fundamental End-to-end principle. The designers forgot to build Tor into it when they designed it. And Tor has serious flaws; most importantly it can be Sybil attacked.
Tor has been praised for providing privacy and anonymity to vulnerable Internet users such as political activists fearing surveillance and arrest, ordinary web users seeking to circumvent censorship, and women who have been threatened with violence or abuse by stalkers. The U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) has called Tor "the king of high-secure, low-latency Internet anonymity". |
|
|
|
To trust or not to trust, that's the question.
For you.  |
|
|
|
What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. AS i stated in my post on BCN it seems just as likely that the coin was mined in closed private circles for several months as it does the chain was entirely faked. assuming the former might mean that some dozens of individuals, not necessarily just team members but maybe friends of team members etc might have mined BCN (arguably in clandestine collusion). would all 80% need to be held in one addy or just many addys adding up to 80% all held by the same group? my problem is motive. 1) GREED these guys could have made big bucks with a much smaller "premines" ro no premine at all. why risk it all knowing somebody could "pull a Monero", take the goodness and start over? and yet it's perhaps the most likely reason 2) To DE-ANON hmm. make a crypto triumph (cryptonote) and then proceed to break its anon? cypherpunks not down with that and seems to obvious for a 3-letter agency. also if a 3-letter agency is responsible for CN then all CN coins got things to be concerned about. By the way is it possible to BUY 80% of a CN coin supply to de-anon it? 3) To prevent a DE-ANON The one positive motive to mine hard. these guys might be so paranoid that they were worried that a 3-letter agency would de-anon their coin by mining it faster than they could, something which Monerians might consider. Doesn't matter what the motive is. The result is there is no good reason for me to risk my privacy by using the coin. Even if we presume them innocent of actual malice (Sorry, I don't want to risk finding out), they were stupid to lay the gun that would eventually kill them on the Welcome mat. |
|
|
|
What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. |
|
|
|
Security is more important than Privacy.
 I would say that if you don't see how the two are inextricably linked, then you missed what happens when hackers steal private information (Target, et al) and destroy victim's security. "Give me liberty or give me death!" would now read, "Give me protection from the minuscule threat of a Terror Cell and here is my pin, my passwords, my emails, my location 24/7, pics of my wife...my dog...my kids, here's every phone conversation I ever had, my medical history, my eating habits, my exercise habits, here is my friend's and family's linked meta data reamed through a processor to create psych profiles so the government can go minority report and prevent any loose cannons, here's my life captured in digital form so my real body is protected from things that rarely happen ever, here is my voluntary cooperation in the greatest control apparatus ever devised, here is where information still means power and I just gave both away so I don't get a lottery's chance of being blown up by a stranger." Everything comes back to the fight or flight instinct and over-socialization industrialization docilification has made most men a herd of skitish sheep "bahing" for their Overlord Shepherd to protect them from the digitally recorded "howl' playing on CNN from the time they wake-up to the time they lay down in a bed of Ambian prescribed sleep. |
|
|
|
Aren't gold and oil sidechains of the dollar? No they are altcoins. Depends how many concessions you want to make to your definition of fungible. I can more easily move between BTC to Monero than from a sidechain to BTC. And I would gain more privacy if I just left it on the opaque chain and never worried about making a few early adopters billionaires instead of keeping my data my data. This game's rigged to make fools jump through hoops to get the e-cash they wanted but will never achieve as long as privacy isn't the core of the solution. The rush to force BTC down everyone's throats isn't about "network efffect" it's about getting a second rate e-cash as the standard before anyone has the good sense to say, "This isn't anything like cash and it's even worse than the money the banks brewed up in their lab, because at least that money had to jump a few international hurdles before it leered into our lives." |
|
|
|
That "force field" can entirely nullify DDoS, Sybil attacks and even make it impossible to find the nodes involved. So then when the protocol is encrypted and the "force field" is on, the bastards are toast.
Is anyone working on this? And where do I find more info if it is available? |
|
|
|
Any german speaking Monero Dev able to give a short comment on the Elliptic announcement and why XMR is not affected?
Preferably in German and in a short way a noob could understand?
Need a quote for a german article about Elliptic and why Anoncoins could benefit.
Sorry if I appear ignorant, but what are you referring to? The release of their "big bang" product? What does it have to do with Monero and German? Hi, I am referring to this: http://cointelegraph.com/news/114604/good-bitcoin-bad-bitcoin-blockchain-analytics-and-fungibilityWe (cointelegraph.DE, so the german site) are writing an article about it as well and I`d like to have a "soundbite" to quote in this context (quoted from the article above): "“Hence my view,” says Vays, “that if bitcoin becomes legal and controlled, there will be an anoncoin that will rise to the top and be 30 to 40% of Bitcoin market cap, and many useless jobs in the government will be added to endlessly fight against it."If I'm not mistaken , Othe can translate English to German. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265368 |
|
|
|
This is a general discussion on how to best achieve Privacy and Security with cryptocurrencies. At the moment I'm not imposing moderation, but if spam, trolling, or FUD gets to a point where meaningful discussion is impossible, the thread will be moderated or terminated. malwaretips.com/blogs/malware-removal-guide-for-windows/Best solution: don't use windows. I was sick of getting viruses all the time so switched to ubuntu. It's 99% safer in my opinion and the liklihood of getting a virus is next to nothing. Plus, I much prefer linux anyway and you can download ubuntu for free. You can boot it from a cd-r or usb as well without installing it so you can text it out to see if you like it. I use an air gapped linux to secure my Moneroj. More adaptable than a Trezor and you can play games on it. |
|
|
|
Aren't gold and oil sidechains of the dollar? |
|
|
|
There is no freedom without privacy, the implications of cryptocurrencies who do not respect the masses privacy are not being taken with the necessary care in a broader sense outside small communities which are shun away as "altcoins". Is a (remote) chance of getting rich by virtue of an early investment all it will take for we exchange our financial integrity in a transparent blockchain? If people accept it the TPTB may as well make the Bitcoin value skyrocket and adopt it everywhere on their system, a removal of the 21m cap will be just the beginning, mining power would shift very fast to their control as they have most of the IRL money and resources after all and the common person cannot really afford ASICs, their dystopic 1984 reality will finally come true.
To feed your healthy paranoia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIus7lm_ZK0I wrote a long boring article few days ago about exchange privacy which is by far the major privacy leak in crypto as of today, I have also worked out a solution with signed message verification of withdrawals from exchanges, please take your time to read it and tell me what you think so that I can make improvements based on suggestions. - The case for the Elliptic Curve verification of withdrawal without email
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1089959.msg11617728#msg11617728Marinecoin DEV marinecoin.org I took a quick run through and love that you aren't using email (though I wonder if you couldn't use encrypted email for some communication), but I don't think I read anything about TOR or I2P integration. Believe you would need some sort of integration to achieve high-level security. Was speed reading, so maybe I went too far too fast? I thought there was a vulnerability recently found in Tor that leaves it open to man in the middle attacks. I don't know if it's any use to the tax authorities, but they might pay professionals to exploit it if they thought they could make money from it. Half of tor nodes are operated by government spy agencies and the rest are hackers trying to figure out who is doing what, I think that says it all, what we are doing with signed messages is eliminating all unnecessary communication over the internet and unsafe database storage of the passwords, a simple hash that verifies that you are you no email no tor that simple. Gotcha, so your main concern is password security. As far TOR goes, I can't find a definitive article on how broke or unbroken it is, but it still is preferable (as far as privacy is concerned) than clear net and can be made better by certain practices, though I2P would be the preferred method for near/complete/better-than security. I think I'm going to take some time tomorrow and see if i can't find some more definitive materials on TOR and perhaps I2P. I'd like to gather materials for the OP for quick reference for those who are interested in securing their finances and identification but aren't sure where to begin. If anyone has any links they think would be useful, please post them. The more general or panoptic ones I'll try to include in the OP. |
|
|
|
There is no freedom without privacy, the implications of cryptocurrencies who do not respect the masses privacy are not being taken with the necessary care in a broader sense outside small communities which are shun away as "altcoins". Is a (remote) chance of getting rich by virtue of an early investment all it will take for we exchange our financial integrity in a transparent blockchain? If people accept it the TPTB may as well make the Bitcoin value skyrocket and adopt it everywhere on their system, a removal of the 21m cap will be just the beginning, mining power would shift very fast to their control as they have most of the IRL money and resources after all and the common person cannot really afford ASICs, their dystopic 1984 reality will finally come true.
To feed your healthy paranoia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIus7lm_ZK0I wrote a long boring article few days ago about exchange privacy which is by far the major privacy leak in crypto as of today, I have also worked out a solution with signed message verification of withdrawals from exchanges, please take your time to read it and tell me what you think so that I can make improvements based on suggestions. - The case for the Elliptic Curve verification of withdrawal without email
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1089959.msg11617728#msg11617728Marinecoin DEV marinecoin.org I took a quick run through and love that you aren't using email (though I wonder if you couldn't use encrypted email for some communication), but I don't think I read anything about TOR or I2P integration. Believe you would need some sort of integration to achieve high-level security. Was speed reading, so maybe I went too far too fast? |
|
|
|
For me , I think everyone will get his privacy when people start sharing their real life informations like Residence , Passport or ID/Driver licence. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1093168.0 , one other thing is simply using multiple adresses (different each transaction) like Satoshi said and then everyone will be fine . But for now seems like no one is doing that so yeah .. no privacy I believe the problem with relying unquestioningly on multiple address use is that once one wallet is linked to an ID, then all the addresses can be linked to that address by analytic tools like this: https://www.elliptic.co/anti-money-laundering/ It may not link you to any crime, but may be enough to blacklist those wallets and make using those coins difficult (or force you to pay a premium to spend them) in certain jurisdictions. Or worse put you on an auditing list of your local tax collection agency. A big part of privacy is unlinkability--either you have it, or you don't. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
