ok so i still need as clear of an answer as possible on this point. So I will not interpret anything and only release funds if that is what my customers wish. Do you agree to these terms?
my understanding from what you wrote is that these terms are agreeable but in my line of work clear cut yes or no's are very important. alright than just one word as answer: yes wonderful. i think my customers will like these terms very much  exactly the point! the goal of having escrow is to ensure that the funds successfully go to where they rightfully belong to. I suppose that it should work the same way as any other escrow services done out there. So you show us the working product on the 22nd, Anon will give you the funds. If you are trying to scam people here, Anon will give us back the funds. it is that simple. regarding exo allocation for the early adopters, you can postpone the release date to 23rd of Feb to use the extra day for fund allocation, trusting that the escrowed funds will definitely be transferred through. OR you can change the 1st phase investment deadline to 21st if u insist on having it launched on the 22nd. The point here is, if all of the investors can trust Anon (or whatever trusted escrow service providers here) that they will be impartial and do the right thing; then you could trust them too. Really if your product is cool for real then having a proper ipo with escrow will make it perfect  the risk is that he puts makeup on a pig. what if he takes nxt source code but changes a few values and designs an all new graphical font-end. It would be difficult to tell if this is the case or not with closed source code. that is why i made arrangements with him so that i will not be interpreting whether not he has fulfilled his end of the deal. that will be up to my customers to decide. if they feel that i should release the funds to him when the time comes than I will, if they feel otherwise than i will return the funds to them. |
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ok so i still need as clear of an answer as possible on this point. So I will not interpret anything and only release funds if that is what my customers wish. Do you agree to these terms?
my understanding from what you wrote is that these terms are agreeable but in my line of work clear cut yes or no's are very important. alright than just one word as answer: yes wonderful. i think my customers will like these terms very much |
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ok so i still need as clear of an answer as possible on this point. So I will not interpret anything and only release funds if that is what my customers wish. Do you agree to these terms?
my understanding from what you wrote is that these terms are agreeable but in my line of work clear cut yes or no's are very important. |
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Subtract all of the targets on chain a, subtract all of the targets on chain b, see which number is larger.
Subtract from what? technically it doesn't matter but probably zero would be the most strait forward. |
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[2014-02-17 21:22:23.586] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from node55.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:26.391] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from miasik.no-ip.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:50.345] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from nxt.homer.ru, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:23:02.295] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from node10.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
a I don't understand why it keeps happening to your node, but again those two block ids are from the correct blockchain - at least on the nodes I run. I am still not sure, who determines what is the correct chain? i did a video interview with tai zen about how the network discovers the right chain. i cant make any promises but it may be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKyXzZJJA8Okay, let me ask you some questions. I put these ones on the table some time ago in my analysis of 'Transparent Forging' and CfB haven't answered it, yet. So, maybe you can. You said: "The higher the stake involved in forging a block the 'better' the block." So, how should a node (not the network as every node decides on their own) decide when two blocks are forged: one from account A and one from account B. Now, there are several cases: 1) A comes first, TF says A is before B => A is on top of chain, B gets rejected when arriving (and vice versa) 2) B comes first, TF says A is before B => A didn't forge => B is on top of chain (and vice versa) 3) 2) happend; A arrived late; what happens? Will B get popped off? 3) ok so im not sure specifically how the client handles this situation. you could in theory have all of the nodes reject a as punishment for being late. there would be some advantages to this. personally though i think what you described in 3) would be wiser. ask a dev for specifics. IIRC, TF includes something like a penalty to accounts that were too late forging. From the perspective of a node, not forging and the forged block arrived too late are indistinguishable. That penalty is supposed to prevent selfish mining. Okay, let's go deeper: Let's assume, one part of the network underwent 1) and the other part underwent 2) (because of network latency). We now have a partition of the network in nodes (say N1) having A on top and in nodes (say N2) having B on top. How do we solve that? Subtract all of the targets on chain a, subtract all of the targets on chain b, see which number is larger. |
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[2014-02-17 21:22:23.586] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from node55.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:26.391] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from miasik.no-ip.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:50.345] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from nxt.homer.ru, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:23:02.295] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from node10.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
a I don't understand why it keeps happening to your node, but again those two block ids are from the correct blockchain - at least on the nodes I run. I am still not sure, who determines what is the correct chain? i did a video interview with tai zen about how the network discovers the right chain. i cant make any promises but it may be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKyXzZJJA8Okay, let me ask you some questions. I put these ones on the table some time ago in my analysis of 'Transparent Forging' and CfB haven't answered it, yet. So, maybe you can. You said: "The higher the stake involved in forging a block the 'better' the block." So, how should a node (not the network as every node decides on their own) decide when two blocks are forged: one from account A and one from account B. Now, there are several cases: 1) A comes first, TF says A is before B => A is on top of chain, B gets rejected when arriving (and vice versa) 2) B comes first, TF says A is before B => A didn't forge => B is on top of chain (and vice versa) 3) 2) happend; A arrived late; what happens? Will B get popped off? 3) ok so im not sure specifically how the client handles this situation. you could in theory have all of the nodes reject a as punishment for being late. there would be some advantages to this. personally though i think what you described in 3) would be wiser. ask a dev for specifics. |
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[2014-02-17 21:22:23.586] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from node55.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:26.391] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from miasik.no-ip.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:50.345] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from nxt.homer.ru, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:23:02.295] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from node10.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
I don't understand why it keeps happening to your node, but again those two block ids are from the correct blockchain - at least on the nodes I run. I am still not sure, who determines what is the correct chain? i did a video interview with tai zen about how the network discovers the right chain. i cant make any promises but it may be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKyXzZJJA8Anon, I think I'm sure I am not on forked chain. Check http://217.17.88.5:7874/with base targets like those i would tend to agree. i do not think you are on a fork. |
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[2014-02-17 21:22:23.586] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from node55.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:26.391] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from miasik.no-ip.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:50.345] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from nxt.homer.ru, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:23:02.295] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from node10.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
I don't understand why it keeps happening to your node, but again those two block ids are from the correct blockchain - at least on the nodes I run. I am still not sure, who determines what is the correct chain? i did a video interview with tai zen about how the network discovers the right chain. i cant make any promises but it may be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKyXzZJJA8 |
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0.24BTC more from address 12A26C6afy4j9GoekEcUKAPzvqxVKxiL5C
TXID: 80a670624888e0890fc2973feb8edb22ccdc0599cc53bc61b02ef4a79d647021
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when does the first round of investing end? im under the impression that the 22 is the last day but i just want to make sure.
also one of the claims that you make is that the code is brand new built from the ground up. so one of the stipulations for releasing the funds that i am holding in escrow must be that you prove that fact. any ideas how to handle this catch 22 since you say that you need the escrow funds released before release but that the code will be closed source until release?
yes the 22nd is the last day. Exact time will be announced later. We cannot prove anything regarding the source without partly releasing it I guess. Anyway we will not release any code before the launch. We have explained that we need the escrow funds at least one daybefore launch. It is not your task to check if any conditions are matched if you offer an escrow service for someone else. So if someone want to release the funds you would have to deliver it - that is my understanding of escrow services. If you do not like the idea that eXocoin will be closed source as of now and are not going to finish any escrow under this condition then please hand your holdings back to them. You will see that we have a completely new programm at least when you read the whitepaper or participate in the open beta. That must be proof enough. I don't like your tone. I'm simply trying to offer the best service I can and protect my customers while maintaining my reputation. It is ABSOLUTELY part of my job to figure out whether you have fulfilled your contract. That's what escrow providers do. However I'm a reasonable person. If it is your position that i should not attempt to interpret the contract and simply release the funds only if my customers wish for me to release the funds than absolutely i can do that. Honestly it makes my job easier and my customers certainly wouldn't mind because it would only give them more leverage. So I will not interpret anything and only release funds if that is what my customers wish. Do you agree to these terms? |
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yes. Everyone can participate in it (no user limits or something - completely open). Open beta will be approximatly one week before the real launch. The open beta clients will be technically the same as the real clients on launch day (with a little modification, so it will use a testnet that coexists further on).
when does the first round of investing end? im under the impression that the 22 is the last day but i just want to make sure. also one of the claims that you make is that the code is brand new built from the ground up. so one of the stipulations for releasing the funds that i am holding in escrow must be that you prove that fact. any ideas how to handle this catch 22 since you say that you need the escrow funds released before release but that the code will be closed source until release? Good question. I am interested in this project and willing to invest while things are more cleared up. When I invest, I'd like to use Anon136 as escrow. I have never used escrow before, so Anon please clarify: Is it OK that I send BTC from dgex or bter? how to verify I am the sender? if you send from one of those 2 places than i will just release the funds to who ever has control over your bitcointalk account at the time of sending. just tell me when you send what address you sent from so i have a record of that. address in siggy |
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yes. Everyone can participate in it (no user limits or something - completely open). Open beta will be approximatly one week before the real launch. The open beta clients will be technically the same as the real clients on launch day (with a little modification, so it will use a testnet that coexists further on).
when does the first round of investing end? im under the impression that the 22 is the last day but i just want to make sure. also one of the claims that you make is that the code is brand new built from the ground up. so one of the stipulations for releasing the funds that i am holding in escrow must be that you prove that fact. any ideas how to handle this catch 22 since you say that you need the escrow funds released before release but that the code will be closed source until release? |
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I appreciate that you are thinking of an investment. Since others trusted you "successfully" and your hero member status we can accept an escrow by yourself. In that case tell us how much you would like to invest and please at least reassure shortly that you are going to release the holded amount to us once you will have seen a successful beta test (at least we need the BTC one day before the launch). That would make it a bit more formal.
will it be an open beta? |
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Confirmed and accepted. do you plan to implement randomness in the selection of stakeholders like nxt? or are you planning on using something like coindays from peercoin. Or something else entirely? if its something else entirely than what? will you be taking a data driven approach to transactions like nxt or scripted transactions like with bitcoin?
Really interesting questions. Well of course we discussed about that point quite a lot of time. We do not like the way peercoin implemented this at all. They rely on the (maybe wrongly assumed) behavior of large stakeholders. nxt improved that mechanism in our point of view. So our algorithm will base on the idea of randomized selection. But more will be announced in the whitepaper soon. I am not sure if I understand your second question. Please rephrase your question if this answer will not match: eXocoin will not support a script engine build transaction. However there will be some kind of distributed contracts (since we want to exchange btc<->exo within the native client and we are thinking of something like native escrow support in the client). Maybe this is a wording problem between data-driven and scripted. But I hope that you got the idea. Good you get an A+ on the first question. Yes I understand. Ok so my next question is, you say the dev(s) are just going to buy in like everyone else, but where are the funds that people use to buy in going? If they are going to the dev(s) than that is a difference without a distinction. Either way i would like to know what percentage of the stake you/the other dev members plan on holding. As i think you can tell im beginning to become interested in your project. I may be looking make a commitment to buy in. I'm i correct in assuming that you would be ok with me using myself for escrow since i have rep as an escrow provider? |
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So I tried it on another computer and suddendly it works and my money appeared! Strange that it did not work on the first one... I will try tomorrow yet.
i had this situation where the client kept jumping chain on a slow older computer but would work just fine on one of my newer computers. |
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I have been both picked for jury duty and not. When I was not picked I was dropped because I expressed my honest opinion (actually got into a sort of debate with the judge).
When I was picked I made sure that each of the lawyers knew that I was listening to their every word, nodding my head when needed, acting like every word that came out of their mouths was a fascinating truth. I helped to save a doctor from getting sued for malpractice when he was not guilty (swayed the jury from a knee jerk guilty verdict to not guilty).
Thanks for telling me about your experience. |
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do you plan to implement randomness in the selection of stakeholders like nxt? or are you planning on using something like coindays from peercoin. Or something else entirely? if its something else entirely than what? will you be taking a data driven approach to transactions like nxt or scripted transactions like with bitcoin?
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Why I can't issue an asset which name is already exist? I got a error as "xcp" is already used.
It's by design. I don't get it. As "xcp" for example, Some one has issued "xcp" already. And I have some "xcp" and want to sell it. I can't sell it if I didn't issue it, unless I use another name. Why? I mean all the same thing should be under the same name. because BobsXCPTokens are a different thing from NxtskysXCPTokens. Just issue them like this NxtskysXCP. Thanks, as a newbie, I don't completely understand how AE works. Is there any paper used to explain the AE works in detail? The NXT wiki is to simply too describe AE system. ill just explain it to you right now. Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed netsky". Now that token can be traded on a market. Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive. its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person. |
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holding 0.1BTC in escrow for bitcoin address 1K2qmHwxyZumsfWPWekrEwo62UzvxY6V9m
transaction: a99b5fd08d8ede82c77d21e2389c262d0217ae8f4189709576ec5bb08f7168dc
he is prepared to sign a message using that address inorder to claim his funds when the time comes
Anon, Can I send from a trading account? Also whats your BTC address for sending? 1J68eajnyueiLeYdaBUiVySFhPiwpafzmY my rate is 0.9% or 0.01 BTC, which ever is greater. |
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