How it likely will be "fixed" is keeping track of BTC/NMC shares & stales seperately.
So when you submit a share the server would
1) Check if it is a valid BTC share. If so increment BTC share count. If not increment BTC stale count.
2) Check if it is a valid NMC share. If so increment NMC share count. If not increment NMC stale count.
Returning NMC stale/reject message would require support of the miner. Current miners are "merged mining" dumb. They have no idea merged mining is even happening and thus wouldn't know what a BTC accepted, NMC stale message means.
Everyone says that implementing merged mining is SOOOooo... Easy that it is stupid to not do it. Well what I see is possibly permanently devaluing Bitcoin and the potential to cripple the Bitcoin network. There is allot that is unknown as to how to handle these scenarios. Bitcoin was not intended to be a "Get Rich Quick Scheme". I think this will just drive serious supporters of Bitcoin away or just into Solo Mining quietly. As more Merged Mining comes online the network hash rate continues to decline and the "Other" chunk of hash rate distribution increases in size. I don't think you guys have thought this out very thoroughly. But what do I know? Sam |
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However, I will say that there is absolutely no reason anybody should be CPU mining at this time. Even with free electricity, you will wear out your components faster, especially on a laptop. You're essentially trading months/years of use of your laptop for pennies.
Fair observation. At this point I'm only mining to learn how to do it. I'll have to get a GPU or three if I decide to get serious about this. Pretty much, except for really long blocks, hence the reason to use small PPS pool.
Thanks. I will look for a small pool to play around in. Have fun but don't splash around too much. I would suggest a PPS pool until you get your AMD GPU's. I was trying to get you the links to the Hardware Comparison and Mining Rig's but the site seems to be down or gone. Here are the links in case someone else knows where they are now. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparisonhttps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_rigSam |
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So what you're saying is even if I *do* solve one or two shares an hour, they will be stale/worthless, since the block will already have been solved? Makes sense.
And just to confirm what you already though, my 4200 series card is not supported from all the research I've been able to do.
Pretty much, except for really long blocks, hence the reason to use small PPS pool. Too bad about the 4200, but my 4670 only does 34.5 Mhash/s. I wouldn't bother with that anymore, but I run that machine 24/7 as a file and print server so I figured why not mine with it. And I used it for training purposes mainly. It's AGP and that was the only AGP GPU I could find still. Sam |
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Once you get your feet wet with your current configuration I would look at building a desktop with a GPU or two and use CG Miner which supports multiple pools with failover.
Sounds like good advice. What other pools would you recommend? Also, do you know if there's a GUI that uses CG Miner as a backend? Thanks again! I like Deepbit and BTC Guild the best. I have only used two other pools besides them but not enough to recommend one way or the other. But while your CPU mining I would search the Pools thread on the forums for a small PPS or SMPPS pool so that you can get some shares in during a round. Smaller pools have longer rounds and PPS earns you a flat rate which would be best for a low hash rate. No there is no GUI for CGMiner. I like the text base interface myself. It's easy to navigate. But search the CG Miner thread, some guy said that he could/would code a GUI front end. Don't know if he was serious or not. Happy hashing, Sam |
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I was getting 1.42MHsh/s on a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 which is pretty good for that older CPU. About how often were you finding a share with that rate? Thanks again! I don't really know. I was CPU mining on my P4's just for giggles to see what the hash rate was. I was getting more than 1 share per 52 minutes though, but the difficulty was allot lower in May/June when I started. On my laptop which is a dual core 2.4 GHz Intel Core Duo I was getting 5.6Mhash/s with about 10 shares an hour or so. Can't remember for sure now. Anyway I would check into a pool that has a low hash rate and pays PPS, Pay Per Share. Deepbit is solving a block about every 20 or 25 minutes and if you get one or two shares an hour, you will never see a share in that time frame. Sam |
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Thanks for the info Sam. I will look for a Catalyst driver for my 4200 if it is supported. In the meantime I have switched to the Ufasoft miner and I'm now getting 1.2 Mhash/s. After a few minutes, it still hasn't appeared on my deepbit account page, but I'll let it run for awhile and see if it shows up.
Yep, give it some time. If your using Windoze I would download speedfan and monitor your laptops temperatures. The Ufasoft miner has CPU Temp throttling mechanism now so the default is to not go over 83 degrees Celsius. But the other temps should be monitored too, especially on a laptop. Once you get your feet wet with your current configuration I would look at building a desktop with a GPU or two and use CG Miner which supports multiple pools with failover. Sam |
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Really?!? Kilo Hash/second? Are you CPU mining with a 80486 or something? If you are really that slow then it may not be turning in enough work in a timely manner to make it look like your are mining.
I have a low end GPU which gets about 34.5 MHash/s and it will often go for 3 or 4 minutes without turning in a share. So if you are really mining that slow then it could take 20 or so minutes to find a valid share. Watch the stats page on deepbit for how many shares your miner gets done.
Sam
Fair enough. I was wondering if that rate was slow or not. I'm running this on a Toshiba Satellite laptop with built-in ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200 Series graphics. However, the device that GUIMiner reports as being used is "AMD Athlon II P340 Du" which looks like my CPU instead of the GPU. Any tips on getting the miner to recognize my GPU? Deepbit updates the stats very responsively for me. I see my miner find a share and then update my browser and it will have shown up already on the stats page. But it can take a few minutes sometimes. It sounds like you are mining, I would let it go for a couple of hours. Edit: I meant account page not stats https://deepbit.net/accountAlso if you are CPU mining I would use the Ufasoft miner. I was getting 1.42MHsh/s on a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 which is pretty good for that older CPU. Sam Thanks. I'll wait a few hours to see if it shows up. I will also try the Ufasoft miner with my CPU if I can't figure out why it doesn't recognize my GPU. I'm not sure the 4200 series is supported by the Catalyst drivers. If it is then try downloading the ATI/AMD Catalyst package. On my older low end GPU, which a Radeon HD 4670, I had allot of trouble getting a Catalyst package it install at all except for the one that shipped with it on the CD, but that version (9.9ish?) Would not mine. But I finally got Catalyst 10.7 to install and with OpenCL 2.2 got it to work with Phoenix 1.50 and haven't messed with it since. So I guess I would try Catalyst version 11.6 and use the Ufasoft miner at first. If the miner doesn't work then install the ATI OpenCL version 2.2 and try the Ufasoft miner again. If you have trouble installing the 11.6 catalyst then roll back to around 10.7 and move forward from there until you get one to install. The Ufasoft miner is the best CPU miner available and works best with Intel CPU's. But it also works with AMD GPU's. And now it even works with Nvidia with Cuda installed. Good Luck, Sam |
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How long have you been mining?
Sam
20 or 25 minutes. Does it take a while to update the stats? Deepbit updates the stats very responsively for me. I see my miner find a share and then update my browser and it will have shown up already on the stats page. But it can take a few minutes sometimes. It sounds like you are mining, I would let it go for a couple of hours. Edit: I meant account page not stats https://deepbit.net/accountAlso if you are CPU mining I would use the Ufasoft miner. I was getting 1.42MHsh/s on a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 which is pretty good for that older CPU. Sam |
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says 457 khash/s (it varies)
Really?!? Kilo Hash/second? Are you CPU mining with a 80486 or something? If you are really that slow then it may not be turning in enough work in a timely manner to make it look like your are mining. I have a low end GPU which gets about 34.5 MHash/s and it will often go for 3 or 4 minutes without turning in a share. So if you are really mining that slow then it could take 20 or so minutes to find a valid share. Watch the stats page on deepbit for how many shares your miner gets done. Sam |
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I seem to have Deepbit working with guiminer / poclbm. When I start mining, it works and says 457 khash/s (it varies). The console also occasionaly says " pit.deepbit.net:8332 27/10/2011 11:58:38, long poll: new block 00000730313xxxxx".
So it appears to be mining, but "accepted" and "stale" remain at 0, and in my Deepbit account it says "Workers not connected"
How long have you been mining? Sam |
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So keep using Winzip and don't download the Ufasoft source since 7-zip is so inconvenient.
Ok, then why is it an archive in an archive? When i uncompress the lzma archive i get a tar archive which also needs to be untarred. It would be awesome if ufasoft would just use .tar archive instead of double compression. You kind of answered your own question. Tar is an archival format, LZMA is a compression algorithm. They are two different things. Sam |
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While i have 7zip installed, i do not like the interface. And WinZip, when extracting with it, opens the folder of the extracted contents which is a nice feature.
Also, zip archives are natively supported by Windows since Windows XP, maybe even longer.
Right click on you archive and select 7-Zip from the popup and select Extract "to folder with archive file name" option and it will automatically extract your archive to a folder of the same name. Anyway regardless Winzip, which was a great program back in the day, is lagging way behind now and is bloatware. Using 7-zip keeps you current, even if you choose not to use it as your primary archival/compression program. Sam |
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Ufasoft, would it be possible for future releases of the sourcecode to use ZIP instead of LZMA because apparently my winzip does not recognize lzma, so i need another tool for that.
Winzip? Someone still uses that?  Get 7-Zip. It's open source and supports about every format. www.7-zip.orgSam |
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3 days and no more info while other pools have been running for a while, why cant he figure it out? Does he not understand it, is it something else? would love to know...
Only one LARGE pool has made the switch so far, and that is slush. And I have never hidden the fact that slush is significantly more experienced and knowledgable on the inner workings of both bitcoin and merged mining. He made the first pool. I'm waiting on shadders to work out some of the final parts of merged mining, specifically related to Long Poll situations, with PoolServerJ before I risk implementing it on the live pool. I'm assuming a risk when I implement it. If something goes wrong, I have to start buying up BTC/NMC to payout user rewards. You're welcome to go to a different pool and either come back when its done, or just stay wherever you end up. Merged mining is not being added until I'm confident its ready. Again, I'm a fan of the conservative approach. But is Merged Mining really a good idea? Just wondering, Sam |
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Why are there other pools already running with merged mining then? I might be unfair here as I really do not know what is going on. I would life some information, and if i was in error I will come back and will apologize. I am just waiting for a response. Also, if I am missing something please educate me why this pool cant and others can. Peace
I'm "assuming" that he wants something more stable than what is currently in place. I'm a fan of a more conservative approach myself. But there is certainly nothing wrong with asking questions and I don't see that you need to apologize for anything. I was just pointing out that your question was previously answered to some extent, less than desired of course . Take Care, Sam |
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Since my question to get an ETA on the merged mining was ignored I am going to assume you are a long ways off on getting this done.
Seems to me he answered this to the best of his ability on page 1 of this thread. He can't get an ETA until someone else do their part. Sam |
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Personally i think we should only have One pool, One nice big 90%nethash pool, Run by all the leaders, Democracy style, Where NO INDIVIDUAL has any power, But as a group can make changes.
Hmm, wasn't that the main premise of the Star Wars story? Sam |
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So, is there any way to verify that solo mining is actually working now? There is an MHash/sec indicator that implies hashes are being calculated at that rate. If something goes wrong with your mining equipment, that number wil drop. If you Are concerned about connectivity, I would think you could simply use netstat to verify a local connection or wireshark to verify a remote one. That's what I would have thought too. I shut down my bitcoin client, running in server mode, and CGMiner will continue to chug along as if it were still working fine. But, at least, with 2.0.5 the rejected share notification stops. If you run netstat while solo mining you will see a time wait for for the process's but no connection established. So my theory is that there is an initial connection using the TCP stack but then it reverts to some other type of communication between the two programs since they are on the same machine. Also now it looks like the donation isn't working in 2.0.5 now. Is conman still an active account on Ozco? Sam |
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In 2.0.7 I don't get any feedback as to if solo mining is working or not. In version 2.0.5 I would get rejected for a status on the solo pool so I knew it was working. Is there any way of verifying that it is actually working in the later versions?
Also it doesn't seem like the donation is working either in 2.0.7. I haven't wiresharked it yet to see if it is actually sending to Ozco, but that would be my next step.
Thanks,
Sam
2.0.7 only shows messages at the level the source of the getwork requires. Solo to bitcoind means you are trying to get blocks, so you get a message whenever you get a block. (shares are not related to solo but: it used to show messages at share level, not block level, bit that has been 'fixed') Pool means you are trying to get shares, so you get a message whenever you get a share. I believe the donation is pointing somewhere else now. So, is there any way to verify that solo mining is actually working now? Is the donation not using port 8332 now? I guess I can check that myself, but if not I'll need to set a new firewall rule. Sam |
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In 2.0.7 I don't get any feedback as to if solo mining is working or not. In version 2.0.5 I would get rejected for a status on the solo pool so I knew it was working. Is there any way of verifying that it is actually working in the later versions?
Also it doesn't seem like the donation is working either in 2.0.7. I haven't wiresharked it yet to see if it is actually sending to Ozco, but that would be my next step.
Thanks,
Sam
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