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361  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA HPC :P 32*LX150 on: March 07, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
Noticed this: http://www.sciengines.com/products/accelerators/formica.html

32 Spartan6 LX150 FPGAs in single device

Now let's see who first turns that into a mining rig or something similar Grin

The data sheet says "200 W power supply".
No, you cannot run 32 Spartan6-150 FPGAs off a 200 W power supply while mining.
Mining consumes about 8 to 9 W per FPGA.
362  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: LargeCoin C200 Integrated Mining Unit on: March 07, 2012, 09:29:41 PM
Basically, they are currently looking for 25 suckers to help them

catch bugs, improve designs, perfect layouts BEFORE running off 10,000 potentially sub optimal chips.

Then they will sell thousands of these and difficulty will shoot up and these 25 "early investors" will never make back their money.

Exactly.

Let's say a few friends come up with 20 grand each to finance a multi-product wafer run.
They get 250 chips.

So they build 25 miners, sell them for 30 grand each and now they have 750 grand (less expenses).

After that, it's a simple three-step process:
1. You have a proven ASIC design
2. You have about 700 grand for a real ASIC design
3. Profit!

363  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: LargeCoin C200 Integrated Mining Unit on: March 07, 2012, 08:56:46 PM
Oops thanks.  Sad thing is that error was the only thing even keeping it "close". 

Updated post.

Electricity would have to be $.47 per kilowatt for the C200 to overtake the Rig Box in five years. Or, it would take 24 years at $.10 per kilowatt for the C200 to overtake the Rig Box. Either scenario is not very likely. I am completely lost with LargeCoin's strategy. They know the demand will greatly exceed 25, only if they wouldn't limit the initial run to 25 thus pushing the price way up.

There are many foundries that offer multi-project wafer runs, for instance http://www.globalfoundries.com/services/global_shuttle.aspx, and you receive anywhere from a few dozen to a few hundred chips.

So, maybe that's all they [will] have: A few hundred chips, enough for 25 boxes (each containing, say, 10 chips).
364  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: LargeCoin Pricing Announced; Taking Pre-Orders on: March 07, 2012, 04:37:18 AM
What puzzles me is: why are they only selling 25 units? Does this mean that later on they will sell them cheaper?

We only have enough chips in our first run to build 25 units.

That's what I don't understand. The vast majority of ASIC cost is in the design. Whether you produce 25 or 250 chips, the cost is nearly the same.

Yeah I don't get it either although I doubt they have a 20 GH/s chip.  More like 10? to 20? chips per "rig".  So 25 units might be 500 chips.  Still it doesn't seem to make any sense.    25 units @ $30K ea = $750K.   100 units @ $12K ea = $1.2 mil?  Since incremental cost is small why would they want to limit themselves to 25 units and thus have to price them so high as to be inferior to other offerings?

Huh

It may be a production run on a multi-chip wafer, i.e. they literally have only 250 ASICs.
All they could finance is a multi-chip wafer run.
The "deposit" will finance the PCBs, passives, power supplies and assembly.
365  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Rig Box on: March 06, 2012, 03:41:09 PM
So, yesterday late at night I get the first email from Sonny that acknowledges my 2-23 order of four additional singles (I ordered
several singles prior to that) and he tells me to please pay up, so that they can process my order, WHEN IN FACT THIS ORDER WAS
IMMEDIATELY PAID VIA PAYPAL ON 2-23!
  Angry

This morning, I sent him an email with a screen shot of my Paypal account showing the $2420 payment on 2-23, and will let you all
know what he says.

I think they are so overwhelmed with orders that they start to lose track of who has paid and who hasn't - not a good sign.  Sad

We've ran through all our logs and realized that neither the name or email of the paypal payment matched
the name or email of the purchase. It's still our fault, but that's where the confusion came from. 

Sorry for the inconvinience, we'll fix it right away.

Regards,

OK, I just got an email acknowledging my payment.
It's a corporate Paypal account and it's possible that all they saw associated with the payment was the name of my business, not my first&last name.
Apology accepted and eagerly awaiting my first single, which I ordered exactly 2 months ago...
366  Other / Off-topic / Re: BFL Single in the wild (BOUNTY RECEIVED!!!) on: March 06, 2012, 03:25:45 PM
Howdy trolls, I got my tracking number. Will confirm delivery by the end of the week.

May I ask when you ordered it?
Thanks.

Howdy trolls, I got my tracking number. Will confirm delivery by the end of the week.

Order date?

<edit> oops... May I ask when you ordered it... also?

Nov. 5th. 2011

So, in other words, that puts you at the lower end of the promised "4 to 6 months" delivery window - oh, wait...
367  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Rig Box on: March 06, 2012, 02:57:21 PM
So, yesterday late at night I get the first email from Sonny that acknowledges my 2-23 order of four additional singles (I ordered
several singles prior to that) and he tells me to please pay up, so that they can process my order, WHEN IN FACT THIS ORDER WAS
IMMEDIATELY PAID VIA PAYPAL ON 2-23!
  Angry

This morning, I sent him an email with a screen shot of my Paypal account showing the $2420 payment on 2-23, and will let you all
know what he says.

I think they are so overwhelmed with orders that they start to lose track of who has paid and who hasn't - not a good sign.  Sad
368  Other / Off-topic / Re: BFL Single in the wild (BOUNTY RECEIVED!!!) on: March 06, 2012, 03:56:36 AM
Howdy trolls, I got my tracking number. Will confirm delivery by the end of the week.

May I ask when you ordered it?
Thanks.
369  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: LargeCoin C200 Integrated Mining Unit on: March 05, 2012, 11:15:58 PM
My initial assessment is: It's more than twice as expensive as it should be. Thank you, but no, thank you.
370  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / LargeCoin C200 Integrated Mining Unit on: March 05, 2012, 11:14:01 PM
I just got this via email, I'm not affiliated with them:


LargeCoin is pleased to announce that we are now taking deposits against pre-orders of our first dedicated, ASIC-based mining appliance, the LC 200C Integrated Mining Unit (IMU). Deposits will be held in third party escrow until final product delivery, which is expected in July 2012, and will be refunded if the product cannot be delivered on time. And yes, you can pay with Bitcoins if you prefer. Additional product details, along with terms and conditions, are found toward the end of this message.

If you would like to be contacted about making a pre-order, please use the following Google form to let us know:

[url removed]

PRICING AND DEPOSIT DETAILS

The C200 IMU is priced at USD $30,000. We are selling 25 units initially, with more to come later in 2012. To secure your place in the line, you must make a $4,500 deposit, which will be held in escrow by a third party until product delivery. You and LargeCoin will sign an escrow agreement to this effect before any money is transferred. The deposit will be returned to you if product delivery does not take place by July 31, 2012.

==============================================

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

The LargeCoin C200 is the world's first purpose-built Bitcoin mining appliance. Designed to fit within a standard 1U of rack space, the C200 connects to the network using Ethernet, and starts mining as soon as it's plugged in to the wall. Mining is controlled via an online control panel hosted by LargeCoin, which allows you to direct mining shares to the pool of your choice and manage your entire LargeCoin cluster in one convenient place. Each C200 mines at 20GHash/s, consuming a mere 100W. Designed for high density operation, the C200 provides efficient movement of air and is suitable for operating in a fully loaded 42U rack (up to 40 units per rack).

Despite the incredible power efficiency and spatial density of the C200, it's priced competitively with GPU mining. When compared with GPU mining, the C200 consumes 100 times less electricity and 14 times less rack space, meaning there's virtually no operating cost associated with this device.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Your deposit guarantees that LargeCoin will ship you a C200 IMU by July 31, 2012, that the specifications of the final product will not deviate materially from the specifications shown here, and that the device will function properly when it is plugged in. When you receive the unit and connect it to the network, you will be granted a temporary mining license enabling the system to mine for a period of 30 days. When we receive the balance of your payment, a permanent mining license will be issued to you. C200 IMUs may be transferred and re-sold -- just let us know before you make the sale so that we can transfer ownership of your license key.

SHIPPING

LargeCoin ships to North American destinations for free. Shipping costs for other destinations will be born by the customer and must be paid in advance. We will notify you when the shipping date approaches and provide a shipping quote for your review and final approval. International customers should be aware that air freight and insurance may cost $2,500 or more.

90-DAY LIMITED WARRANTY

LargeCoin warrants that the C200 will function materially consistent with the specifications for a period of 90 days following device activation, which occurs when you plug the unit in to a network with Internet connectivity for the first time. If the device fails, you may return it to us at LargeCoin's expense for a full refund, or replacement unit. Devices that are dead on arrival will be replaced or refunded.

NO GUARANTEE OF MINING REWARD OR FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE

Due to the random nature of Bitcoin mining, and the large uncertainties in the Bitcoin economy and network, LargeCoin cannot guarantee that the C200 will solve Bitcoin blocks at a particular rate, or that it will generate a financial benefit of any kind. Mining profitability depends on a number of factors, including the selection of a mining pool, which may or may not charge fees that reduce the mining reward; changes in the Bitcoin mining reward calculation including but not limited to scheduled reductions in the mining reward; and fluctuations in difficulty factor. LargeCoin's warranties and guarantees extend only so far as the hashing rate provided by the appliance, and its level of average power consumption.
371  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Is there any interest in a hardware board which will allow remote power cycling on: March 03, 2012, 04:11:58 PM
I could make a unit with a web control panel that could be used to control up to 8 units via the mainboard power switch pins (or reset) for about $25 retail. I would use a PIC18F86J65 controlling some FETs. It would be about 2"x1" in size. I have these microcontrollers in stock and can get boards made in a couple weeks. Since I already have a similar board design done the only real additional work involved would be the code to host a web interface.

(The similar design is for my fpga miner controller posted elsewhere on the forum).

Could likely do up to 16 computers for another $5 or so. I guess making long jumper wires would be a bit fiddly though so maybe they would be extra. But I could include a small Nokia style power adapter or it could be made to plug into a molex easily enough.



Now we're talking.
That's a reasonable price!

Do yourself a favor and source cables from China, for instance via Winstronics http://www.winsusa.com/ instead of soldering or crimping them
yourself.
372  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Is there any interest in a hardware board which will allow remote power cycling on: March 03, 2012, 06:16:58 AM

  For my remote systems, it's always nice to go issue a remote physical power-on and off reboot should something crash.  I was really thinking of how to do this aside from setting up and testing WOL.

  If a simple box / interface that is hooked up to the machine(s) could cycle them off and on remotely if necessary that'd be great. 

  I'm interested to see how this works out.  For $100 that's not bad at all to invest in.

OK, PM me how many you want, I'll buy them at Amazon for $24.54 (see my previous post), mark them up to $100 and resell them to you.

Maybe you have trouble reading so I'll help you.
Quote
Can physically power on, power off, and power cycle up to 8 rigs (multiple boards could be used to control more rigs)

So you going to buy him 8 for $200 and mark it down to $100?  Your a nice guy.



Please realize that few, if any, people will need 8 individually switched outlets.
Thank you.
373  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Is there any interest in a hardware board which will allow remote power cycling on: March 03, 2012, 04:39:09 AM

  For my remote systems, it's always nice to go issue a remote physical power-on and off reboot should something crash.  I was really thinking of how to do this aside from setting up and testing WOL.

  If a simple box / interface that is hooked up to the machine(s) could cycle them off and on remotely if necessary that'd be great. 

  I'm interested to see how this works out.  For $100 that's not bad at all to invest in.

OK, PM me how many you want, I'll buy them at Amazon for $24.54 (see my previous post), mark them up to $100 and resell them to you.
374  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Is there any interest in a hardware board which will allow remote power cycling on: March 02, 2012, 06:37:15 PM
Background (can safely skip if TL/DR):

on edit: removed as it seems to be a distraction.

..


Remote out of band power control
There are PDU that offer ability to power cycle devices remotely but they tend to be very expensive and have insufficient wattage for a large number of rigs.  For example the unit in the link below has 16 individually switched outlets but only 5.76 KW of switchable power or about $100 per KW.  Using conventional remote power solutions is cost prohibitive.  
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-PDUMH30HVNET-Distribution-Switching/dp/B0013HY9E2

So why not just shutdown/reboot the rig via the command line using ssh?  That certainly is a solution most of the time but the rig may be unresponsive, the mining software may hang when it tries to shutdown with crashed GPUs, or rig may hang during reboot.

An analog power switch is essentially fool proof.  Power rig off, wait, power rig on.  It can't be defeated by failing software on the mining rig. I am gauging interest (no guarantees, no pre-orders, no timelines just gauging interest) for a control board which would provide remote out of band power control for multiple mining rigs.

Tentative simplified board specs:
  • Requires a host "server" (any non mining computer) with an RS-232 port (USB to RS-232 adapters are available for ~$10)
  • Can physically power on, power off, and power cycle up to 8 rigs (multiple boards could be used to control more rigs)
  • Linux and windows OS supported.
  • Will expose an API for integration into existing or custom applications (like hypothetically ANUBIS)

Cost: ~$100 (rough estimate)

Recently, I bought such a device for $24.54 at Amazon.
It is the "USB Net Power 8800 Single Outlet Network AC Power Controller" and it has a USB cable. While intended for Windows, someone has written a Linux driver, which can be downloaded. In fact, I use it with Ubuntu Linux.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Single-Outlet-Network-Controller/dp/B004L7NDVQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330713310&sr=8-1

I use it to power-cycle my %^$#%& DSL modem, which once in a while decides to go catatonic.
I wrote a perl script which detects that the aggregate hash rate of all graphics cards on this particular rig has fallen to 0.0 MH/s, whereupon the script turns the power to the modem off for one second, then on again.
Works like a charm.

Edit: I just looked at the type plate of this device, and it says "6 Amps".
       Definitely OK for a DSL modem, but probably too lightweight for a 4-GPU or 5-GPU mining rig.
375  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch payment start. on: February 29, 2012, 11:08:31 PM
(here if you kill a person in a car accident, you should compensate for about 100,000$. )

Regardless of FAULT?

In Thailand it's like this: If a motorbike rider ignores a stop sign and is therefore injured or killed by a "farang" (foreigner) driving a car, the "farang" is automatically at fault, because if the car hadn't been there, the accident wouldn't have happened.

Is is similar in China, or is it a little bit more rational?

---

On another note: For the first time ever there was presence of China-based security vendors at this year's RSA conference. For years and years, Germany had a huge pavilion for several vendors from Germany, and this year as a first, China had the same thing.
Specifically, the pavilion was rented by "Beijing Zhongguancun Overseas Science Park" and subdivided among several vendors.
376  Other / Off-topic / Re: BFL Single in the wild (BOUNTY RECEIVED!!!) on: February 29, 2012, 04:36:43 AM
I've been in their shoes, fulfilling high customer demand, lots of orders, with a very small (2-3 bodies) workforce, to the point where I was working 80hrs a day. But I still ensured I was handling customer service Wink

Wow. 80 hours a day. My old boss used to say, "the day has 24 hours and if that's not enough, work through the night, too", but 80 hours a day, that definitely takes the cake.
377  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Rig Box on: February 28, 2012, 07:20:00 PM
Butterfly Labs - can you tell us how many backorders you have at this point?

I see so many people saying they have ordered 1 or 2 (or 10).  If we assume 300 backordered singles, and say, 10 of the box rigs, that's around 750 GH/s of added hashing power!  Increase of difficulty around 7.5% from where we are now...  I guess it's not a huge amount, but still interesting to think about!

You forget to account for the fact that some GPU-based rigs will be retired when the Singles come online, due to power / heat concerns.

I, for one, will probably turn off one GPU-based rig for every 5 or 6 singles I bring online, due to heat concerns.
378  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: ~3GH/s in a 4U rackmount case. (30GH/s+ in a single datacenter rack?) on: February 28, 2012, 05:41:50 PM
It will be in my own rack no datacenter.  The largest advantage comes from dumping heat directly outside so datacenter doesn't really make sense.

>directly outside

How do you plan to do that?
Is it a BARN, with a overhanging roof and a huge open window?

Half a year ago I had eight tower cases perched on the windowsill of an office, four where the right windowpane opened and four where the left windowpane opened. I added external ducting and 12cm "exhaust fans" at the mosquito screen of the windowpanes.

Problem was, they were blue LED fans - the building owner drove by at night, went WTF? - and eventually asked me what the f*** I was doing. I gave an evasive answer ("research") and was evicted shortly thereafter with a 3-day notice.  Cry

Now you know why I'm interested in BFL Singles and FLGA boards...  Roll Eyes
379  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Rig Box on: February 27, 2012, 09:04:11 PM
I got an email back from Sonny the other day. He's saying late this week for my singles.

I run Mac. Wondering if cgminer will compile for me and support the singles?

@jddebug, when did you place that order? I'm guessing November or December? Would give us an idea of how far along BFL is with their backlog.  Undecided
Not jddebug, but hopefully helping clarification: I placed my order end of January and received wire transfer information the same day. Payment from Europe took about one week and Sonny confirmed receipt immediately, giving me a projected delivery date mid of March.

I also requested updated API specification and received it the same day. That's why I never got impatient with them. OTOH, that were the times when 90% of forum members bashed BFL as scammers and the amount of orders might have been low.

I placed my order in early January and paid via Paypal, and as of today I have received: Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
In other words, this is now the 8th week [of waiting], seven weeks have passed.
380  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Rig Box on: February 26, 2012, 01:12:22 AM
Minimum 20% (VAT) of total value (including shipping cost) goes to her royal majesty if I am not wrong.

If it arrives by courier, they may charge another fee on top of that for the handling.

BFL has now put international shipping cost at $88 (forgot what it was before but lower I think), that smells like courier to me.


Yes. This is absolutely right.

I imported a laptop from the US once and I had to pay 2 things : about 30 GBP to Parcelforce for handling it in the UK and about 20% VAT from the declared value of the package as import duty.

So, in summary : EU / UK guys get SCREWED by import fees.

Let us do some calculations : 450 GBP just price + 30 GBP handling fee + 90 GBP duty = 570 GBP price for everything ( just one single ) ?

Does it come with 240V and UK plug support ?

Anyone in the UK can confirm actual figures once they get a unit, if possible ?

Thanks !

I live in the UK and put an order in yesterday via PayPal.  Will let everyone know as soon as it's delivered if no one beats me to it.

Do you know that it's going to take 4 to 6 weeks until you receive it?
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