Of course, you're not just paying for a piece of silicon wafer, but also for the months of design work, the cost of the mask set, as well as a risk premium.
Trust me, most of us are comfortable with that. I'm more uncomfortable with the fact that the prices are staying set right at the ragged edge of profitability, and they're higher than they were originally announced to be. There is no headroom in the chip pricing, all sorts of unknowns creep in when you are trying to make boards, then you add the fact that the ROI mostly governed by the price of one component, and you enter a high risk scenario. I think the future of ASIC is small home rigs with no aircon and other overheads, exactly where many of the independent board designs are focused. I may be wrong, but it looks like how BTC difficulty works, it leaves no room for the cost of aircon, data center rental, and staff all of which the small home rig avoids by subsidy of normal living. I don't see the big farms at Bitfury's future clients unless they intend to wind up chip production and retire when the farms eventually become unprofitable. you seem to be completely dicounting power usage and price. A 'home rig' may cost $0.09-0.19/kWh while a hosted rig at a data center will cost $0.03-0.09/kWh. a few dollars a day per rig, plus shared AC costs, means that hosting a 100 units on cheap power provides enough savings for all your above gripes (rental, techguy, etc) I know that by paying less than 10c/kWh where I am, that it gives me a decent leg up over much of the USA's home miners, because the power usage will become more important than the hashrate very soon |
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The height of that heatsink is 20mm - the space between h-boards is 20mm. It might fit, but it would impede circulation even if it did. /cet keep in mind too that the connectors for the board may need extra bracing against the added weight of a big heat sink. probably 2-4x the pcb weight and off-set from the center of gravity |
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Refund confirmed!
PayPal was not helping me at all!
I used a PayPal bank transfer so I couldn't dispute with my CC.
One email and 8 hours later, I've been completely refunded over $800.
Thanks for posting this thread!
here here! this method works and is very simple  $300 for a jally wasn't a big hole in my pocket, but by the time it delivered i bet i could buy one on ebay for <$300 and never make more than $100 from mining! |
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Ive got some slight issues with my new setup of 8 BE USBs:
running 3 on my PC's ports and 3 on a cheapo 7-port hub with 3.5A power results in all 6 performing well.
running 3 on my PC's ports and 4 or 5 on a cheapo 7-port hub with 3.5A power results in 6 performing well and 2 producing almost entirely HW errors.
the units performing poorly tend to change at times, and seems to not always be from erupters plugged into the hub. I also get frequent '4 extra bytes' errors.
is the issue overloading a cheapo hub, or related to the computer? 3.5A to the hub should be more than enough to power 5 units attached to it.
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do you have a dummy load/short for the mobo detection circuit? without it a psu will not turn on, or will quickly turn back off
To my limited knowledge, there is no "mobo detection circuit". There is only "/PS_ON" - green wire that should be shorted to GND if you want the PS to be turned ON. If the PS is turned OFF, it does not provide 12V on any rail. same thing, different jargon  |
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Got my refund from BFL! 1 fewer customer stuck waiting months for a lie
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i did his method late last week, and within 48hrs got an email saying my purchase/payment was cancelled and reversed, with my money back in the paypal account!
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Is there anyone who can confirm/deny that C05I and C04I on the M-card are supposed to be soldered together on one side? My M-Card apparently doesn't work (powersupply auto-shuts within less than 1 sec after powering on), although I don't see any of the "known possible defects" ( http://imgur.com/a/t3AKx) on the card, except the C05I and C04I soldered together on one side. Some pictures here: http://www.void.be/tristan/bitfury/bitfury_m_1.jpghttp://www.void.be/tristan/bitfury/bitfury_m_2.jpg(C05I and C04I are the 2 lower condensators in the group of 4 in the middle of the picture) Does anyone know if I can just send my board back, or what the normal course of action is? (I used the bitfurystrikesback contactform yesterday but haven't received a reply yet) Thanks do you have a dummy load/short for the mobo detection circuit? without it a psu will not turn on, or will quickly turn back off |
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So I talked to Dave about this.
#1 - I have confirmation again that we are paying the theoretical production from the miners. Your payout is not tied to to the MBPStarters account.
#2 - So to clarify, the purpose of the MBPStarters account at this point is to explicitly set aside some of the mining output. This way only small adjustments/money movements are needed to close the gap between what was actually mined and what needs to be sent to customers. But it is purely for our purposes, not for tracking anything public(anymore).
Does that help clarify the plan?
it does however, I really want my unit as soon as possible, as it looks like a lot of other customers are managing to pull >30Ghash from their starter kits, and as much as i appreciate the free hosting of 25Ghash, it would be something special to have my unit in hand hashing at that speed or higher. It may be the end of september when the unit is actually delivered. That said, Dave and his team have done the best they could, and more then many other manufacturers/distributors. too bad for a slight shortage of m-boards, because otherwise they have my full kudos! ps: I have an october h-board #13X and another (unpaid) #8XX. Will these ship together, and/or will either of them ship along with my starter kit once the m-boards deliver? I know the october timeframe is still fairly uncertain, but it may make practical sense to combine the shipping costs to canada for these. |
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Just curious about one thing.
I have found this thread through ads on the site. I have setup a small group buy and wanted to buy a 100 BEs. I sent an e-mail to one of the address listed on the OP.
and basically I have been redirected to a reseller who is taking a 16% cut on the price to which I am not really interested.
IMO, a reseller sells small quantities to a higher price tag.
So my question is: What is the point to advertise a new price if it is not possible to have the product at that price and turn down potential customers?
I may recontact you at the next price drop to attempt to make a purchase or maybe I'll try an alternative product as I'm starting to see Bitfury USB keys around....
Anyway, if I have misunderstood something, I hope that you'll be able to make the communication clearer at your next ads campaign.
agree + 1 in canada, teek is the reseller, and as a prior customer i was offered a discount of 0.13 BTC per unit (plus tax = 0.15 each), with no prospect of bulk discount. If direct-order from friedcat was available i would gladly organise a 50-100 unit canadian group buy |
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Well, if you look at the prices, the RasPi, m-board and h-board starter kit is $1300. The h-board is $500, that makes the m-board and RasPi worth $800, doesn't it? So wouldn't that be a fair trade for an H-board ?
If Dave would just say that there would be some "consideration" for doing it, I'd gladly FedEx him my spare M-board and RasPi so someone else could get their starter.
my guess is that by the time you got your single board to him, he would have (or almost have) a whole box of v2 m-boards. ebay it and you may get >1000$ lol |
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It's actually funny - If you paid in USD, everyone who has received a bfl product will make roi.
You don't seem to understand the idea of currency exchange. Please inform me how a BFL product will make back its costs without saying "oh well bitcoins were $80 then and theyll be $200 when it is mining! hurp a derp" I only put down bitcoins/money on something that i feel will produce more BTC in its lifetime then if i initially had just put my money into BTC |
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has anyone noticed that the hashrate of the hardware setup as compensation for starter kit buyer has reduced to 508 gh/s from 1600 gh/s @Dave / @JaredR26 - Can you guys have a look at this please. May be the miner needs a restart. Thanks, https://i.imgur.com/9wAuxHA.pngFYI. It has been going down sharply. Now it is at 305 gh/s Its currently around 915 Gh/s. I have full respect and happiness that dave has decided to host my starter kit until m-boards are available, but it would be *better* if my 25gh/s portion of the total in that account actually maintained at >24Gh/s, rather than swinging between 16-27 gh/s (mostly on the low end) 54 starter kits @ 25ghash = 1.35 TH and the last few times i checked on the api key, its been in the 550-1100 Gh/s range I cannot stress enough that dave is doing all he can, and is doing a tremendous job of it, but if the m-boards and subsequent order shipment are still over a week(s) away it would be nice to see the pool hashrate upgraded just a little bit to be a consistent 1.35 TH/s (considering many of the delivered kits have 25-35gh/s with the bonus EOL gear). Again, full congrats to dave, but its not over until the fat lady ships... |
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I want to buy 50 of these but I dont know how  I live in Turkey , if anyone is capable of selling me 50 of these and ship it to Turkey , let me know and quote me a price. Am I failing anything ? If we buy 50 of these we can ROI in 2 months? (well if you buy them at 0.1) , is there anything wrong with my math? 50 of these will make 0.09 or so everyday with current difficulty? Lets say difficulty changes , 3 months or 4 months ROI looks A LOT better than no roi Turkey contact EU reseller: yxt. Expect some ROI prob never break even though what is a shiny asicminer device worth once it no longer makes profit? You should factor that in. personally, 0.05BTC each is worth the cool factor and blinky lights, but thats just me i feel you could make resale profit at <0.15 BTC each, assuming you can find ebay/in-person buyers who will pay >$20 |
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We ran short of M-boards due to the factory shortage of parts I mentioned. I had hoped they would pick up the slack in production, but the break in production was felt last week when the shipment finally arrived from AK customs with no M-boards. According to tracking, we only expect 12 tomorrow. Every starter kit we send out takes 16 slots from the mine. We have 54 starters left to ship. A cost analysis shows that we would lose over 20TH if we ship out of the mine - taking over 800 cards out of the picture, which does not work well from a financial perspective. The solution is to dedicate four rigs to a separate mining account and then send each customer their share of the coin once we ship. Of course the customer will not pay a hosting fee or their share of power. I have already repointed the hashpower to this dedicated account: https://www.btcguild.com/api.php?api_key=23fcc6a0f8292fe394b1706da8c0d304. As soon as we ship these units, we will distribute the coin accordingly. Thanks for your patience on this - please look for an email requesting your payment address before you send it to us. Best, Dave So your using the M-Boards that were allocated to our orders to maintain your mine (I am an share holder) and you have allocated 4 rigs at BTC Guild at the PPS rate (as per the API) with a 7.5% fee((1 / Network Difficulty * 25) - Pool Fee (7.5%) https://www.btcguild.com//index.php?page=support§ion=howamipaid one of the highest pool fees out there). Seems to me that your failing to walk your talk to ship out August orders before populating your mine. Let us not forget the rigs going to LabRatMining (which I am a shareholder also) which were purchased after most August orders were placed. A cost analysis shows that we would lose over 20TH if we ship out of the mine - taking over 800 cards out of the picture, which does not work well from a financial perspective.
This could be considered a grave financial impropriety. Please enlighten me as to how that is adventurous to us, seems like we are funding the operation of your mine with our equipment and getting paid way less than our own individual strategies. What advantage is that to us, are you sending extra h boards to compensate? Because the BTC payment based on your decisions seems way unfair and you are profiting way more by holding our equipment while the production errors are catching up. Even now, we will not be able to achieve any ROI http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/9373700bafYou apparently have the equipment as per your analysis. I know I paid the full overnight shipping fee for an August starter kit. If your taking 800 cards out of the picture by shipping out our paid for equipment, we are getting Avaloned and your decision to do this without asking those of us waiting for orders is a poor choice. You were doing so good, what happened to you. wow, you're right. The pool is PPS with 7.5% fees, which is absolutely insane. furthermore, the current hashrate looks to be around 18Ghash per starter kit (if there are 54 as claimed). I don't mind my order being hosted until more m-borads show up, but i feel like the choice of pool and bare minimum of hardware allocated to it (i saw it get as high as 27Ghash and less than 18Ghash, which indicates it is at a loss compared with the starter kits' extra EOL card that ensures 25-35Ghash for those already up and running at home) People who are mining with starter kits at home are producing almost 150% the bitcoins that this hosting does because of the >=25Ghash speeds and low fee pools available (seriously, 7.5%?) I respect everything you've done dave, but this is a pretty blatant mistake. Punin shipped every single august order within about 3 days using extra h-boards and V2 M-boards. Hopefully we can get an update soon |
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Ugh teek doesn't have these for anywhere near 0.12BTC, more like 0.29 before shipping. :/
i sent him a PM to see if there is a new coupon code he can provide, otherwise maybe a canadian groupbuy may be in order, since reshipping within canada is fairly inexpensive, maybe 0.10-0.15 BTC for tracked xpresspost packaging. (in contrast, US resellers charge about 0.35BTC to ship into Canada). Does the pricing given above apply to anyone who orders minimum 50, or must it be done via the designated resellers Id love to pick up at least 10 of these, 5 or 6 for personal use and collection, and the rest as gifts and resale items. |
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Great new prices! Thanks I live in Canada, so can I just message teek and ask for a 0.10 BTC BE? o.O In my experience, he can often provide a discount code that is applicable at checkout, but usually is a little more expensive then friedcat price, plus taxes |
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Interesting idea, Plazma. However, i don't really trust Avalon can deliver in October.. anymore.
In other news, chips will be refunded from both batches. Only chips at the moment. Whoever wants to stay in, reinvest in something else, is welcome to stay. Whoever wants out, will be refunded.
More news in the morning, i've got several pages of math to do. I hate to keep you in the dark, but i still need my numbers right.
100% agree. I would like the chip cost of my order refunded, and would be very interested to know if gen-2 chips can be used with the k16 to produce some sort of value (at this point, that would need to be about 1-1.5 Ghash per chip). Im still hoping avalon may offer free upgrade of gen1 chips to gen2 chips Take your time with the numbers, so that both yourself and us (customers) can get the most out of avalon's mistake. |
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One liner: Full kit orders will go out Monday/Tuesday. Starters will not go out because we ran out of M-boards. There was a delay two weeks ago at the factory (ran out of connectors) that we are now feeling at this end. I will compensate starter kit buyers with equivalent coin for this delay. More details to follow. Your starter kits begin mining for you tonight...
Appreciated very much. I will hold tight on hardware. If this is true then I am more than satisfied with the decision. I hope tomorrow you can elaborate, because I can accept a delayed shipment if 'compensated for lost income'. A timeframe would be greatly appreciated alongside the update |
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Hey Guys, I am an american who bought a starter kit from megabigpower. To get my 25 GH, I received a card that is functioning at full capacity (~19GH) and an "EOL" end of line card with is running about 6 to 10 GH. After looking at the stats.log, it appears that the EOL card is only seeing the first 6 chips. I took some macro hi-res pictures of the chips 6 and 7 (45 and 46 labelled on the card), where the spi communication I am guessing is broken. https://i.imgur.com/Iddp2WQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MpXXHdS.jpg For the life of me, I don't see anything out of the ordinary. The european thread seems more advanced at getting full speed out of these boards and was wondering if any experienced eyes see something suspicious. Really good macro capture there. I had to cut traces, when soldering the jumpers did not work. What does cutting the trace do, simply cause it to skip it and recognise all the chips after it (7-16)? with regards to the pictures, why are some of the traces' through-holes (right term?) gold/copper coloured? Is this just a result of the way the green colour/layer was applied overtop, or a potential defect? Seems like an unlikely reason, but it sounded like the board production was the issue behind most errors, rather than chips) |
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