Nobody's personal religion is the absolute truth.
So that would include yours. Thank you. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Since nobody has come forward and produced a connection to Ross, whereby Ross harmed anyone or damaged the property of anyone, Ross deserves whatever they give him, simply because he agreed with it in advance, by not requiring the harmed or injured party to step onto the stand, make the accusations against him directly, show how he did it, and be cross examined by Ross. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Funny,
I thought Governments would just LOVE Christians with Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's (Taxes), and "Turn the other cheek". Instead they love, do what you like just don't get caught?
Hmm... No wonder they are failing.
Well of course they love Christians. They love that Christians are ignorant. They love that when Saint Paul says in Romans 13 that we are supposed to obey our government, they love that all these idiot Christians don't understand who their government is and why. They love that the Christians don't understand that anybody can select a different government without moving off their land, or out of their domicile. They love that the Christians think that they are slaves and that God tells them that they must be such, even though that is not what the words of the Bible say. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Governments love religion, because religion makes it substantially easier to control the people. Look at America, the NSA has been spying on people for years from everything from their cell phone calls, text messages, internet searches, browser history, hell there's even versions of Windows that are spied on by the NSA, and guess what, there's been no "revolts" by the people. Religion allows governments to totally control the people "peacefully" without the people even realizing it/caring. With countries like China on the other hand that don't really like religion, they have to show their true colors and use "force". You are so good. This is the exact reason that they love the atheism religion more. Just look at the post by TECSHARE posted above. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Oh well, I'm talking about getting rid of all taxes ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) What system do you propose for paying for schools, roads, hospitals, emergency services etc? Ever hear of this thing called "the market"? Apparently it's pretty popular with literally everything else in existence. The market, where layer upon layer of capitalist bureaucracy is added, middlemen invoicing middleman stacking up the costs and providing labour only to scrape of the margins, spending millions to reel in your customers, cutting back in service and quality. No one is getting better when the market gets involved. In our country, the healthcare is put on the free market, the prices have gone up since and still rising, the insurance companies are numerous, dividing the collective and lowering the total spendable amount on healthcare. They are destroying it only for profit, the people suffering are the ones who need it the most. Less and less is possible. Money is flowing into funds and bonusses, companies setting up dummy corporations to invest in and lose their money legaly into obscure constructions. Same goes for energy and other markets. Don't get me started. We will never benefit of the free market system when the scale is beyond the small community. You could have said it faster by saying, where there is a market of fools and simpletons, you will find no end of politicians who will screw them. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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the dictionary definition
Tell you what, you dishonest fundie, seeing as all you have in your locker is to keep screeching about the 'dictionary definition' of the word 'atheist' and be particularly narrow-minded in which dictionary definition you are clinging to in order to desperately pretend you have a reasoned counter-argument, let's humour you a little and pretend, *real hard*, that the word 'atheist' actually does mean what you want it to mean and, therefore, us atheists cannot challenge your world-view. Let us occupy this bizarre little perspective of yours, for a thought experiment, ok? 1.We create an artificial intelligence which is capable of utilising multiple sensors to observe and measure the reality it exists in, namely, The Universe. 2. None of its input warrants it concluding your 'God' exists. 3. The lack of its belief in your God is derived solely because there is no non-fallacious argument that would justify a belief in the existence of your ominpotent, omniscient, super-being deity. Q: In that you are unable to present a cogent argument which would justify the AI accepting the existence of your 'God', is the rejection of your fallacious assertion reasonable grounds to continue accusing the AI's atheistic world-view as being religious in nature? Why do use such harsh language with me? After all, you are essentially a pretty nice guy, or you wouldn't even waste the time on a forum like this. In answer to your points and question, would the AI recognize that it was built by someone, or some group of people? The reason I ask is, we, the human beings, are the AI that God created. The fact that there is no explanation for the existence of the universe that is based on clear scientific fact, is the almost absolute proof that, whatever the Greatness is that caused the universe to come into existence, fits the dictionary definition of the word "God." There is nothing wrong with the fact that you are unwilling to accept part of the dictionary definition of the word "atheist" as applying to yourself. However, whatever the dictionary definitions are, they are applicable to you by others... even if it upsets you. If they weren't, they wouldn't be in the dictionary. Thanks for playing. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Ok, so to answer the original question, I (as an atheist) don't hate religion. What I hate is religious people who try to enforce rules upon the general population. Rules that they themselves do not follow. For example the commandment that says "don't be gay" is preceded by one that says "don't wear wool and linen at the same time." Also sodomy is defined (strictly speaking) as any sex that is not for procreation (or more loosely defined as non-vaginal sex including oral). So, yeah I know a LOT of christians and none of them follow these rules. So where do they get off trying to make other people follow them?
I have had christian friends that did not want to have premarital sex, so they had oral or anal in stead. And yet gay people should not get married...
Anyway, to all the christians out there:
WHY CAN'T YOU JUST LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE THE F ALONE?!?
And stop saying stupid crap like gay people are like child molesters. Seriously.
When a Christian sees an atheist, out of love for the life and soul of the atheist, he automatically wants to convert the atheist to God, so that the life and soul of the atheist is saved rather than damned. Then the atheist gets angry with the Christian for telling him supposed nonsense. So he speaks against the Christian. Yet it is the Christian's idea to love and save the atheist. After a time of being persecuted by atheists, some Christians become upset and fight back, even though they shouldn't. But can you blame these Christians? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) No. When a Christian sees an Atheist, he/she sees freedom, and naturally wants a piece of that freedom pie. There are many different reasons, fear and peer pressure being the dominant ones, that the Christian cannot have that freedom they see. This gets them angry. The correct way to deal with this would be to find the strength to break free of their chains, but only a few lucky ones manage. The wrong way to deal with the anger is to try to remove the freedom from the other person, as once they stop seeing the freedom, their anger will disappear. They try to do this by good old fashion tried and tested fear. Pretending they are doing you a favour by "saving" you, when in reality they are trying to remove your freedom for their own gain. Steer clear and keep your freedom. Well of course it is different for every Christian, at least a little, but... A Christian is aware of the fact that God owns everything, and that God is perfect. The Christian is aware that he is not perfect, because he can feel the sentence of death in his body - the coming of old age. This causes the Christian to fear God. Since God has shown Himself to be honorable among people, this fear turns into respect. God is just, and punishes those who disobey Him. But He is also loving and merciful to those who try to obey Him, and believe in the forgiveness of Jesus in areas where they fail because of their imperfection. It seems unfair when those who are against God - atheists, etc. - receive good things, while the good Christian often receives bad things. Certainly this can be upsetting to the Christian at times. However, this life generally lasts for less than a hundred years. So, that's less than a hundred years of enjoyment for the ungodly, and less than a hundred years of problems for the Christian. Then comes an eternity under the sentence that God will pronounce for each and every person individually. Anybody who likes pain and problems is crazy. Anybody who doesn't like pleasure and enjoyment and pleasantness is almost as crazy. Anybody who chooses the good things here for 100 years, and thereby accepts an eternity of pain and problems, is crazier than the craziest. Turn while you have the chance. Because if you don't, there may come a time for you that you will be locked in to your position of being against God, without the ability to change. Forever in the afterlife won't be fun for you. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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I don't want Freedom OF religion, I want Freedom FROM religion.
-Confirmed Agnostic
Outside of your own personal religion of life and living, you have the ability to be free from any and all religions. The only way to get rid of your personal religion of life and living is to die (maybe become a vegetable). ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Do you have any clue how wrong you are? Most laws are based on religious doctrine. If a person has not harmed another or damaged his property, whatever laws are brought up against him in the courts, he can rebut those laws using his freedom of religion... of course, only if he holds to that personal religion. People don't do this, but they could and should. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) You are arguing someone can do something against the law because of their religion beliefs but not that someone can do something because the laws religious rules are wrong. Do you see the difference? Not arguing yet. I don't understand what you are saying. Some religious rules and laws are not right. Some of your personal religious rules and laws of your personal religion are not right according to the personal rules and laws of somebody else and their religion. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Arguing as in the term debating. I agree with your last post. Although I don't believe I hold any personal religious rules. And I refuse to live by others personal religious rules. But it is amusing that I have noted in many that they do not even notice that their opinion is based on their doctrine. Maybe mine is as well and I am as blind to the fact? If you strongly believe that you don't have any religious rules, and you firmly believe you don't have any religion, and you think about it regularly, and you adamantly stand up and say it now and again, you have the religion of not having a religion. Definition #6 at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion?s=t says: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice." ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Nice catch 22 you found there. ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) But that would be an atheist and is why I am Agnostic. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) It is a paradox that only God can know if it exists and anyone thinking otherwise is in fact claiming to be God. Well, if I misinterpreted your responses to suggest you were an atheist, you could always interpret the "you" in my posts to mean anybody in general who happened to be reading. Lots of folks belong to the Agnostic religion. The paradox you mentioned fits all kinds of things. For instance, you and I don't really know that each other exist. But if we are reasonably sure that we do, then we CAN be reasonably sure that God exists if he tells us that He does. Of course, if you know something, it is fact. There isn't much room for believing in something that you know is fact. I mean, do you factually know your wife/girlfriend exists while she is in your arms? Or do you only believe it? After all, some people who get their guy/gal after a long-term chase often say something like, "I can't believe I finally got you." It must be fact for them. (Remember, "you" is general, not personal, unless it fits, of course.) ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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I don't want Freedom OF religion, I want Freedom FROM religion.
-Confirmed Agnostic
Outside of your own personal religion of life and living, you have the ability to be free from any and all religions. The only way to get rid of your personal religion of life and living is to die (maybe become a vegetable). ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Do you have any clue how wrong you are? Most laws are based on religious doctrine. If a person has not harmed another or damaged his property, whatever laws are brought up against him in the courts, he can rebut those laws using his freedom of religion... of course, only if he holds to that personal religion. People don't do this, but they could and should. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) You are arguing someone can do something against the law because of their religion beliefs but not that someone can do something because the laws religious rules are wrong. Do you see the difference? Not arguing yet. I don't understand what you are saying. Some religious rules and laws are not right. Some of your personal religious rules and laws of your personal religion are not right according to the personal rules and laws of somebody else and their religion. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Arguing as in the term debating. I agree with your last post. Although I don't believe I hold any personal religious rules. And I refuse to live by others personal religious rules. But it is amusing that I have noted in many that they do not even notice that their opinion is based on their doctrine. Maybe mine is as well and I am as blind to the fact? If you strongly believe that you don't have any religious rules, and you firmly believe you don't have any religion, and you think about it regularly, and you adamantly stand up and say it now and again, you have the religion of not having a religion. Definition #6 at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion?s=t says: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice." ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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I don't want Freedom OF religion, I want Freedom FROM religion.
-Confirmed Agnostic
Outside of your own personal religion of life and living, you have the ability to be free from any and all religions. The only way to get rid of your personal religion of life and living is to die (maybe become a vegetable). ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Do you have any clue how wrong you are? Most laws are based on religious doctrine. If a person has not harmed another or damaged his property, whatever laws are brought up against him in the courts, he can rebut those laws using his freedom of religion... of course, only if he holds to that personal religion. People don't do this, but they could and should. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) You are arguing someone can do something against the law because of their religion beliefs but not that someone can do something because the laws religious rules are wrong. Do you see the difference? Not arguing yet. I don't understand what you are saying. Some religious rules and laws are not right. Some of your personal religious rules and laws of your personal religion are not right according to the personal rules and laws of somebody else and their religion. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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I don't want Freedom OF religion, I want Freedom FROM religion.
-Confirmed Agnostic
Outside of your own personal religion of life and living, you have the ability to be free from any and all religions. The only way to get rid of your personal religion of life and living is to die (maybe become a vegetable). ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Do you have any clue how wrong you are? Most laws are based on religious doctrine. If a person has not harmed another or damaged his property, whatever laws are brought up against him in the courts, he can rebut those laws using his freedom of religion... of course, only if he holds to that personal religion. People don't do this, but they could and should. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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You believe in God or you believe nothing with all doubts which can not be solved by science.
Don't understand what you mean. However, anyone who believes in God believes in science, because God made all the things that are examined by science. Much of modern science that does not accept God, offers non-scientific ideas and theories. That is, science that is provable suggests other science that is not provable. And in the eyes of a lot of people, it all is science, both the provable and the unproven. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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I don't want Freedom OF religion, I want Freedom FROM religion.
-Confirmed Agnostic
Outside of your own personal religion of life and living, you have the ability to be free from any and all religions. The only way to get rid of your personal religion of life and living is to die (maybe become a vegetable). ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Ok, so to answer the original question, I (as an atheist) don't hate religion. What I hate is religious people who try to enforce rules upon the general population. Rules that they themselves do not follow. For example the commandment that says "don't be gay" is preceded by one that says "don't wear wool and linen at the same time." Also sodomy is defined (strictly speaking) as any sex that is not for procreation (or more loosely defined as non-vaginal sex including oral). So, yeah I know a LOT of christians and none of them follow these rules. So where do they get off trying to make other people follow them?
I have had christian friends that did not want to have premarital sex, so they had oral or anal in stead. And yet gay people should not get married...
Anyway, to all the christians out there:
WHY CAN'T YOU JUST LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE THE F ALONE?!?
And stop saying stupid crap like gay people are like child molesters. Seriously.
When a Christian sees an atheist, out of love for the life and soul of the atheist, he automatically wants to convert the atheist to God, so that the life and soul of the atheist is saved rather than damned. Then the atheist gets angry with the Christian for telling him supposed nonsense. So he speaks against the Christian. Yet it is the Christian's idea to love and save the atheist. After a time of being persecuted by atheists, some Christians become upset and fight back, even though they shouldn't. But can you blame these Christians? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Funny,
I thought Governments would just LOVE Christians with Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's (Taxes), and "Turn the other cheek". Instead they love, do what you like just don't get caught?
Hmm... No wonder they are failing.
Well of course they love Christians. They love that Christians are ignorant. They love that when Saint Paul says in Romans 13 that we are supposed to obey our government, they love that all these idiot Christians don't understand who their government is and why. They love that the Christians don't understand that anybody can select a different government without moving off their land, or out of their domicile. They love that the Christians think that they are slaves and that God tells them that they must be such, even though that is not what the words of the Bible say. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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The thing that most people don't seem to realize is that a religion is really just a belief system, nothing more. Every human rely on some belief system, whether there be a God involved or not. So you could say everyone is religious, the only thing that separates people is numbers. The guy who has his own personal belief system is not considered religious while millions that adhere to the same system are.
There difference between a belief and a religion is that a religion has ritualistic behavior that is oriented around the belief. As in, believe in XYZ, pray in this specific way, etc, otherwise you won't be granted eternal rewards. While this is true for folks that barely think about religion or atheism, but rather just live it without thinking. Yet for those who practice their religion, even atheism if the practice it is a religion. Atheists want some information regarding the beginnings of life and human kind. So they focus on scientific "revelations," thereby making the "revelations" their "bible" and the scientists that proclaim the revelations their "priests." At any rate, those people who don't think much about atheism or other religions, have the personal religion that suggests ignorance about religion. Why? Because they do whatever they do day by day, RELIGIOUSLY. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) EDIT: Take a look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1068356.msg11447618#msg11447618 to see why you might not want to be an atheist any longer. Badecker we just dont need something to believe in to function. We dont need to pray to something to feel better about our selfs. We live as we like. So if you have a problem with that, then go back to church and ask god if he can kill the free with a flod. You have been making your point so religiously, that I can't see how you could think that your atheism, at least, is NOT a religion. If living as you like is your religion, it still is a religion, 'cause you do it religiously. And if it includes atheism, then atheism is a religion for you. Since you hate religion, you hate atheism and yourself, right? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Here's a question for you: Since you keep claiming atheism is a religion, can you instead describe what it means to be non-religious? In other words, what criteria does a person need to meet in order to be considered non-religious, according to you? That's easy. Non-religious is what dead people are (of course, they may be other things as well). It is also a term that applies to animals and inanimate things, since the religion of non-religion is a religion, itself. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Do you believe every individual, living person is religious then? Actually, outside of a few who are mentally retarded vegetables, yes... although some of them religiously say they aren't. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) So, in the past when you said that "religion will be proven true," then you think that the beliefs of every non-retarded, non-vegetable person will also be proven true, including atheists, correct? Who am I to contradict in the heart of another? If he is convinced to change his beliefs, however, then he has changed his religion. Nobody's personal religion is the absolute truth. However, if someone's belief is extremely strong, he just might change things to always have been that way right from the beginning, even though it wasn't that way before he believed with such faith. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Hey BADecker, thrown any rocks at gays lately? Tell you what, why not pop over to my house. I've got two gay tortoises trying to hump each other at the moment. Why not put a smile on Gods face and smash their sinning heads in with an iron bar? Win win situation. You release some of that anger, kill two creatures for sinning and please God all at the same time. Gods work.
You poor little guy. I feel so sad for you. Such a burden of pain you bear, deep within your soul. I can only feel compassion for you in your great pain. Perhaps someday someone will find a way to ease your hurt. ![Cry](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cry.gif) So was that a yes or a no? For the rest of the folks reading this, he wouldn't understand either a yes or a no. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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The thing that most people don't seem to realize is that a religion is really just a belief system, nothing more. Every human rely on some belief system, whether there be a God involved or not. So you could say everyone is religious, the only thing that separates people is numbers. The guy who has his own personal belief system is not considered religious while millions that adhere to the same system are.
There difference between a belief and a religion is that a religion has ritualistic behavior that is oriented around the belief. As in, believe in XYZ, pray in this specific way, etc, otherwise you won't be granted eternal rewards. While this is true for folks that barely think about religion or atheism, but rather just live it without thinking. Yet for those who practice their religion, even atheism if the practice it is a religion. Atheists want some information regarding the beginnings of life and human kind. So they focus on scientific "revelations," thereby making the "revelations" their "bible" and the scientists that proclaim the revelations their "priests." At any rate, those people who don't think much about atheism or other religions, have the personal religion that suggests ignorance about religion. Why? Because they do whatever they do day by day, RELIGIOUSLY. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) EDIT: Take a look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1068356.msg11447618#msg11447618 to see why you might not want to be an atheist any longer. Badecker we just dont need something to believe in to function. We dont need to pray to something to feel better about our selfs. We live as we like. So if you have a problem with that, then go back to church and ask god if he can kill the free with a flod. You have been making your point so religiously, that I can't see how you could think that your atheism, at least, is NOT a religion. If living as you like is your religion, it still is a religion, 'cause you do it religiously. And if it includes atheism, then atheism is a religion for you. Since you hate religion, you hate atheism and yourself, right? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Here's a question for you: Since you keep claiming atheism is a religion, can you instead describe what it means to be non-religious? In other words, what criteria does a person need to meet in order to be considered non-religious, according to you? That's easy. Non-religious is what dead people are (of course, they may be other things as well). It is also a term that applies to animals and inanimate things, since the religion of non-religion is a religion, itself. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Do you believe every individual, living person is religious then? Actually, outside of a few who are mentally retarded vegetables, yes... although some of them religiously say they aren't. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Taxes are enslavement. If people pay taxes voluntarily, they aren't taxes. They are purchases, or donations. The idea of a voluntary tax is an oxymoron self-contradiction. Either it is a tax = slavery. Or it is a donation/purchase. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Excellent thought I must say. So people who are willing to give donations are not slaves while those who are forced to pay taxes are slaves? I guess then 99% people would love NOT to pay for their food/electricity/housing/clothes and those who are forced to pay for the same are slaves. We should get everything for free then life would be a pleasure right? The people who get their "stuff" free are slaves. And so are the people who are taxed to pay for the ones that get their stuff free. Part of the reason that there is an economic problem in America is, the numbers of slaves who are getting their stuff free (welfare people and politicians) is increasing, while the numbers supporting them through taxes (workers) is decreasing. Thank goodness that part of the decreasing numbers of taxpayers includes a bunch of folks who have figured out how to legally get out of paying taxes. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Yeah. The police gang doesn't like other gangs encroaching on their neighborhood, so they shoot 'em dead. If the other gangs had won, and the police had died, then the State or the Federal would have sent in their gangs that we call "the military."
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