Bitcoin is zero-sum; for every winner, there's a loser. Bitcoin needs suckers like you. Thank you for supporting Bitcoin.
Yea sure, so when you give a bitcoin service or create a bitcoin product, you are zero sum right? So when you add value to the bitcoin economy, you are zero sum? Gimme a break pal, bitcoin is a real currency, that has a real economy backing it, this is not 2013, bitcoin has already became a legitimate currency by now. |
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.... Prices have risen + 10% of the purchase price to me and when I need money.
essentially you want to sell at 300, which is +10%, a bit underwhelming if you ask me for me it's not even worth to sell bitcoin below 100, it's like they are frozen for now, well unless a fatal flaw is discover and in that case i'm forced to sell before i lose everything... Same with me, but I would not sell at 300, are you kidding. It can go to 5000$ or even higher, why settle for low ROI? Also if you sell, I believe you would buy altcoins with it, you are not thiking about buying fiat are you? |
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yes i am holding about 0.25 BTC for a price increase.. lets see what happens  Hey I do not have even that much also. But now I started to learn how to earn more. Till I improve my forum rank I would be busy in faucet earnings to make some good of bitcoins. I believe bitcoin will hit $1Million per coin level too. Thats nice but lets be realistic. The most it can get to in the nearby future is 5000-15000$. There is just too much comfort for the people with traditional banking systems, they will transition very slowly. |
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Here is another funny fact for you. Retail prices of oil worldwide http://chartsbin.com/view/1115Somewhere up to 213 cent/litre. Real oil price of crude oil: $47.26 / barrel = 0.297$ / litre So they make the oil for 0.297$ / litre, yet they sell it for 2.13$ / litre So the oil cartels get away with 616.55% profit margin . And you wonder why your electricity costs that much  |
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Nice. I like this kind of hairstyle and so pretty face. I give here 9.5/10, she is really cute. |
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all this selfie madness stuff is ridiculous to me
People are arrogant dicks with monstruous ego's. You better get used to it, this is just an ego boosting social madness. And the most insecure persons have the biggest egos, remember that. |
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I've got a theory; a very long time ago in a universe of (virtually) nothing but water there existed some fish; eels to be specific. With all of time having passed they reached the pinnacle of evolution. With hands and claws for grasping and manipulation they were the image of the mythical dragon. It's a dark cold watery universe but the dragon had a dream of a place of light and warmth. The dragon created an artificial world; a giant ball and filled it with rocks and a gaseous atmosphere and a warm sun.
Eels can come out of the water on to land and hunt prey for months a time. They do things the like climb trees and ambush prey. These fish still contain the DNA for the mythical beast. In Scotland for instance they have to use giant steel bars on their hydro electric power plant dams in order to keep the dragons out.
In a parrelel universe it could have happened. Or you think that some monkeys climbed down the tree, and started building buildings with rocks, ended up being the current civilization (the current reality). Both are ridiculous if you think about it, yet either of them are not that strange if you look about it from a phylosophical standpoint. Thinking that humanity is somehow extremely importand is childish. Humanity is only a temporary experiment of nature and it wont exist forever. |
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Fail to see what exactly? I'm merely stating the definition and asking you where the voluntarism is. I'm also asking you where the Gov. controls the price set between two private businesses - which so far you seem reluctant to answer; why is that?
So the basis is "private property", eh? Let's see what the definition say!
"private property" = " land or belongings owned by a person or group and kept for their exclusive use ", thefreedictionary.com, my emphasis.
So much for voluntarism and non-aggression - LOL!
Anything else you'd like rebutted?
because as I said, dictionary definitions often cherry pick certain characteristics and fail to address others. Yet, Webster's definition of "free market", "an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government", was "pretty much spot on", according to you. So where, according to that definition, is the Gov. controlling prices set between private businesses? Ah man,you are a hopeless case. You only read the news too like reading the headlines? Read the content not the headline. I`m not saying dictionaries are false, but if you only look at the narrowest definition, then you will never understand it. There are books about capitalism that are 200-300 pages long yet you push me a 2 sentence definition, as if that would be the only principle that counts.
It's a very dishonest cherry picking method for a debate, but let's see I can be dishonest too , let me cherry pick something: https://www.thevenusproject.com/en/about/the-venus-projectThe Venus Project is an organization that proposes a feasible plan of action for social change, one that works towards a peaceful and sustainable global civilization. It outlines an alternative to strive toward where human rights are no longer paper proclamations but a way of life.
...
The Venus Project calls for a straightforward approach to the redesign of a culture, in which the age-old inadequacies of war, poverty, hunger, debt, environmental degradation and unnecessary human suffering are viewed not only as avoidable, but totally unacceptable.
Compared to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_InternationalThe Communist International, abbreviated as Comintern and also known as the Third International (1919–1943), was an international communist organization that advocated world communism. The International intended to fight "by all available means, including armed force, for the overthrow of the international bourgeoisie and for the creation of an international Soviet republic as a transition stage to the complete abolition of the State."[1]
See it's identical, both the COMINTERN and the RBE want a global stateless society where the global resources are managed by the communities and shared equally. Hahaha the hidden communist agenda is discovered....
See I can also cherry pick and compare your RBE to COMINTERN and see little differennce, but I`m sure your RBE is other than that. So you realize why content is important, and to not overconcentrate on headlines, because it make your movement look very bad, as many people have bad experiences with communism, including myself. So you need to detail your plan, to avoid being labeled as communist. The same way then I say capitalism is the only way to go, you label me a corporatist, when I`m not. |
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Communism = Centrally planned economy = Only FED prints money.
Capitalism = Free Market/Free competition = Many banks print money.
Wake up! We are living in a communistic system.
Nope. Communism = Centrally planned economy = Only FED prints money. Capitalism = Free Market/Free competition = Many banks could print money, and people would have choice of using the one that they like, including Bitcoin, that is a non-bank currency, and it's not printed. So Free Market Capitalism = Freedom of Choice (through competition) Crony Capitalism = Little freedom of choice, choose between 2-3 oligarchs (current system) Communism = Total Slavery |
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Fail to see what exactly? I'm merely stating the definition and asking you where the voluntarism is. I'm also asking you where the Gov. controls the price set between two private businesses - which so far you seem reluctant to answer; why is that?
So the basis is "private property", eh? Let's see what the definition say!
"private property" = " land or belongings owned by a person or group and kept for their exclusive use ", thefreedictionary.com, my emphasis.
So much for voluntarism and non-aggression - LOL!
Anything else you'd like rebutted?
Well if your only knowledge about capitalism is dictionary definitions, then better go open a book about it and read it through, because as I said, dictionary definitions often cherry pick certain characteristics and fail to address others. Start reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faireLaissez-faire or free market capitalism, the system where there is no government involvment in the economy. Proclaimed by Adam Smith and other famous economists. Free market = Voluntary trading, with no imposal of taxes/regulations or other obstacle economic laws. |
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So, RealBitcoin, which part of the definition of capitalism below relates to voluntarism?
Capitalism = " An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. ", thefreedictionary.com.
You still don't get it. I never actually disagreed with you. I'm merely asking you to prove your point with respect to the definition of "free market" which we are discussing.
Again, the definition deals with "private businesses", and not a baker selling bread to the end consumer. So when the bakery (the business) buys flour from another business, where is the Gov. setting/controlling the price?
You fail to see the forest from the tree. That is a narrow definition, but capitalism as a philosophy can't be summed up in 2 sentences. It is a complex philosophy and economic system. The basis is private property, that is correct, but that is only the basis and there are other principles. Here is a more explanatory definition from Wikipedia: Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are privately owned and operated via profit and loss calculation (price signals) through the price system (but we have tons of state owned companies and state owned land that is not used for anything, a waste).[1][2] Central characteristics of capitalism include private property (with huge property taxes), capital accumulation (if you can survive the tax system), wage labour (where the government steals half of your wage) and, in some situations, fully competitive markets. (where we have licensing system and only 2-3 companies are allowed to compete + 1000s of regulations)[3][4] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which they exchange assets, goods, and services. (unfortunately pesky minimal wage, regulations and other indirect influences messes up this system)[5]
The degree of competition, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism.[6] Economists, political economists, and historians have adopted different perspectives in their analyses of capitalism and have recognized various forms of it in practice. These include laissez-faire or free market capitalism (this is what I want), welfare capitalism, crony capitalism, corporatism, "third way" social democracy and state capitalism (whereas we have a mix of corporatism and welfare capitalism currently with elements of socialism, it's a perfect mixture like the monster from Frankenstein). Each model has employed varying degrees of dependency on free markets, public ownership, obstacles to free competition, and inclusion of state-sanctioned social policies.
The extent to which different markets are free, as well as the rules defining private property, become matters of politics and of policy (it should not be, otherwise it's a phony system). Many states have a mixed economy, which combines elements of both capitalism and centrally planned economics (because Adam Smith and Karl Marx were best buddies, let's mix fire and gasoline next time).[7] Capitalism has existed under many forms of government, in many different times, places, and cultures.[8] Following the decline of mercantilism (it never declined, just look at the huge import/export taxes, and trade regulations), mixed capitalist systems (there are no good mixed systems, thats like mixing potable water with cyanide and drinking it) became dominant in the Western world and continue to spread.[9] I`ve put in red the important definitions and characteristics, while the text in blue are my comments of it, what we actually have today. So read it through. |
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Sorry, but you are just a clueless idiot with no idea about the words that you are using. And no, you are not an intellectual.
Again, capitalism has a very narrow definition, and not the nonsense about voluntarism that you're spouting.
I already rebutted your price-control examples: they are not examples of private business-to private business dealings.
Ok so you cannot comprehend the concept of capitalism and start insulting, very intellectual of you. Here so you can understand the huge fallacy, I drawed this nice chart, of the cost of 1 piece of bread.
You complain about that businesses can set the price amongst eachother, but you fail the realize the monstruous influence that the government has over the prices, here is an example if 1 piece of bread:  You complain about the liberty of the poor baker to set a profit margin of 0.15$ for himself, yet you fail to see that most profit goes to the government. Plus every single layer of cost of 1 bread is taxed: insurance, license fee, land tax, import tax, tax cost of 1 employee, minimal wage, VAT tax, and every other bullshit. Indirect control, but its monstruously big, and you still cherry pick me about the lack of direct control. See the bakery owner cannot sell his bread below 1.06$, because he would go bankrupt, that is price control. If there werent VAT tax, he could sell it for 0.85$. BONUS: Even that tiny 0.15$ profit is taxed with the income tax, social security and other bullshit, so the owners earn even less. This is not a free market THE GOVERNMENT TAKES AT LEAST 80% OF THE VALUE OF THE BREAD AND PUTS IT INTO THE POCKETS OF CORRUPT POLITICIANS, HOW IS THIS CAPITALISM? |
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Read my previous post, right above your where I explained that the Universe and entropy makes is clear that we are evolving towards decentralization.
This is a fact. Some structures might evolve in between as a coincidence, but the long term tendency is decentralization in every shape or form.
So the perpetual power of the current elite is only an illusion, nobody will be absolute powerholder in the future, this can already been seen be earlier absolute monarchies vs. current pseudo democracies, the power structure is less concentrated.
And I believe with Internet we can take a 1000-2000 year evolutionary step in just 10-20 years.
We can abandon some of our animal instincts ,but not all of them, because we are animals weather you like it or not, we cant abandon our nature.
I agree with you on all points except that I think you are too optimistic for the near future, I agree the technology is there but not ourselves. The main problems we face as civilization are resources and land, the rest (food, technology, education, etc are easy to fix and provide). Religion even with its fanatics has no real power compared to 500 years ago and it will continue to lessen and be more tolerate of others. We live in a global world where english is adopted almost everywhere, if you ask me there is no need for other languages right now, we can create a more diverse culture if we all share the same language. However, land distribution and resources will always be a problem, countries and governments won't back down easily. Huge oil reserves in the North Pole has been discovered recently and many nations are in a new cold war since they all claim a part of that territory (Russia claims more than other nations think it's legal for example). This sort of thinking can be applied to you, where do you live? Can you decentralize your property? your land? We all want to live in a nice part of the city or by the sea, how that works? The "elite" and the rich will always accommodate themselves, don't fool yourself. What's more, you and I will do it in a second, that's what life is, surviving, getting ahead in every aspect. If you think you are not like that, wait until you have children, I've never known anyone with children that didn't expect them to "do" better in life, success is measured like that for 99.9% of the people. This is a cruel world, materialistic in every aspect, without a certain amount of money or resources like shelter, water or food you are dead. And you need much more than that actually to be confortable in this age. Ok you have apoint, land and physical property will be a bit more delicate issue, but I`m sure people will find a good "humanitarian way" to do it. But what I`m saying is that most of the assets in the future, we will have it digitally. You don't need 1000's of cattles, hectares of hectares of land, nor 1000's of workers to survive? We will have robots, we will have global trading, etc... All you will have as posessions, is your online PC , digital data (books, movies, art, songs, or other IP) , digital assets via our cryptocurrencies, and accounts to various services on the internet. And you wont need anything else. You could order food, order clothes, order any physical item via the internet, you can already do it now... If you really think about it, the concept of ownership will change in the future, but it will be exciting. You could call this minimalist capitalism, or digital capitalism. Whatever, but it's still capitalism. |
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Man this NXT is amazing, this guy Marc is a real inspiration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVlbqfvitWgMore people should go to youtube and make NXT videos, right now when you type in NXT it gives you some wrestling videos, but seriously, we want this currency to become global, so more people should make youtube videos + share on social media. |
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Ok guys this thread is just going down in IQ points, so let me summarize what is happening here!
No, let me! It's about Linux and Metro (the newspaper). No mechanism of capitalism drove the development of Linux, and it's still one of the best OS:s, valued at billions. Metro is handed out for free, yet there no rush to get one; and people still only take one and leave it behind for others to read. There, an RBE summarized; and these are just a few examples from our current paradigm where everyone must "earn" a living; imagine if the whole world was an RBE. Btw, you still haven't answered where the Gov. controls prices between private businesses. You dont understand capitalism I see now where you get your foolish ideas, the media really brainwashed people thinking that capitalism is the evil thing. No it's not. Linux is as capitalist as it can get, because capitalism means only voluntary transactions. Capitalism doesn't mean necessarly a price tag on everything.There are other marketing models can be used, for instance: http://linuxmint.com/That site is full of ads, they dont charge anything for linux, but the site is full of ads + sponsorship methods. It is profit oriented (capitalist), but it uses a different tehnique, other than the price tag. Plus, you fail to realize that "profit" doesnt only mean financial profit, there are other profits as well, for example with this conversation you are expecting to profit knowledge, otherwise you would have not talked with me. So "profit" is not a bad thing, on the contrary, it is the best thing one person can get. You can say that happiness and pleasure is a form of profit too. _________________________________________ Regarding your price control questions, you are just constantly cherry picking ,I already gave you plenty of examples, but whenever I give you a new one, you always say that that doesn't qualify, which is kind of silly, and proves cherry picking. |
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I think we are slowly evolving to what we all deep down know we are supposed to be. But then life gets in the way and our animal instincts take over and rip everything apart just to survive in the now. 1.000 years is nothing in the big scheme of things and look how much we've accomplished. At the same time we are still plagued by the same ignorant desires and whims. 1000 years more or less is nothing in terms of evolution, we are evolving make no mistake, but that takes aeons not some centuries.
Concepts like this are amazing in theory but we are still very far away for make them a reality. Perhaps some time of catastrophe forces us to adopt a resource based economy, but I don't see that happening by human choice any time soon.
Read my previous post, right above your where I explained that the Universe and entropy makes is clear that we are evolving towards decentralization. This is a fact. Some structures might evolve in between as a coincidence, but the long term tendency is decentralization in every shape or form. So the perpetual power of the current elite is only an illusion, nobody will be absolute powerholder in the future, this can already been seen by earlier absolute monarchies vs. current pseudo democracies, the power structure is less concentrated. And I believe with Internet we can take a 1000-2000 year evolutionary step in just 10-20 years. We can abandon some of our animal instincts ,but not all of them, because we are animals weather you like it or not, we cant abandon our nature. |
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So as you know i`m an intellectual What you refuse to understand is that there is no free market, there never has been and there never can be. It is the free market that is a fairy tale, told to the masses by charlatans and predators to steal and rob them blind while trashing the planet in the process. Many people are beginning to question and produce alternatives to the monetary market system, which has the charlatans and predators very scared. And they are right to be scared because they are ignorant of the possibilities. They do not know that the world would be a better place for them too. That the stresses and pressures they feel will also go away when everyone lives in a sane and rational economy. But since they've never known anything but the false religion of money, that's all they can think about and push on others. One day soon though, we will all have to decide whether to do away with money, or let money do away with us. I`ve though about this before and you are still wrong. Decentralization is the path of nature, weather you like it or not, the universe is expanding, and the matter is going away from eachother, so it is a natural phenomena of the universe. We can see this in humanity too (as we are part of nature as well), we have advanced from baby stage tribalist/monarchic societies to a pseudo democracy with "representatives". It took us long time, but evolution is exponential, with the advent of high technology like the internet. It will take us some steps, but rest assured, either humanity gets wiped out, or humanity will drop their shackles and wont be fearful of predators anymore. The free market has never existed before, thats true, or atleast not in large scales, maybe in some remote villages across the history, but not in a sizeable way. It never existed because there was always a ruler near every weath spring, that like a parasite sucked out the wealth of it ,and tryed to control it. ------------------------ For economic freedom we must need first political freedom. You cannot with for economic freedom when you had mongols pillaging your trading place, nor when it was war, nor when modern "inspectors" come and harass you in your business. Today there is enough organization to have some sort of effect on government policy of the economy. It is going the other way unfortunately due to the parasitic welfare state, but when that ends, we will have a big chance of doing what never has been done in human history, to have a free economy and global prosperity. --------------------- The free market might be a silver opportunity for charlatans and predators, but it will be a gold opportunity for honest businessman. If there is real supply & demand then trust me scammer business models wont get too far. Bitcoin is currently the closest you can get to a free market, and while scammers struggle to scam 1-2 bitcoins, honest businesspeople earn 10-20 bitcoins. That is the motivation isnt it? |
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Ok guys this thread is just going down in IQ points, so let me summarize what is happening here. So as you know i`m an intellectual , capitalist, and free market proponent. I dont like neither corporatism (too much power concentrated amongst private individuals), nor leftism (too much power concentrated amongst corrupt politicians). So basically what we have now hardcore socialism (for the masses) /corporatism (for the elite) worldwide, but you guys with this venus project, and resource based crap, want to add more steroids to what we have now and turn it into global communism. Your plans are just carrying on the COMINTERN agenda, so comrade Lenin and Marx and the rest of them would be proud of you guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_InternationalIt is just sheer madness on steroids what you are doing, because the current economic path just took us 1 step from the pitfall, but you guys want to take the extra step and fall into the abyss, instead of reforming the economy into a real competitive and free economy,you rather choose the global enslavement.
You know why the Separation of Church and State happened? Because the State is a double edged sword, and whichever Church controlled it, used it its own weapon to destroy the competitors, giving born to the inquisition and the bloodbath between Catholics vs Protestants. It was a necessary agreement to get the State out of religion, to avoid a bloodbath between religions, and religious wars, in the future. This was called the First Renaissance .----------------------------------------------------------- However, the state got out of the religion, but it got into the economy. Now the state is used again as a weapon of large corporations to wipe out it's competitors, perhaps not kill them in blood, but bleed them economically, and drive them into bankruptcy. Laws after laws, regulations after regulations, taxes after taxes, bleeding the poor businessmen out and leaving him bankrupt, while the big guys dodge taxes, find loopholes in regulations, and make laws for themselves. Do you think this is normal? The state needs to get out of the economy, entirely. This will be the Second Renaissance. |
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Actually, you are the one being exploited. A capitalist will not employ you and pay you what you're worth. They will pay you less than the value that you provide the employer because that is the only way they can get profits. Once you and other employees understand this fact, then you will experience the conflict inherent in the system.
Thats bullshit, the capitalist pays you exactly what you are worth CURRENTLY. Now that worth might not be your labour's maximal worth as in: YOUR CURRENT WORTH = YOUR MAXIMUM POTENTIAL - YOUR BAD HABITS You are paid your current worth. Why don't you earn your maximum potential? Because you are not asking for it or you have other defects like shyness or whatever that makes you earn less. What happened with worker's unions? Free market doesnt prohibit ,that, but a centralized worker union can be bribed, so a decentralized one could be the way to go. Entrepreneurs represent power of capital, and you need a counterpower to counteract that, and it will not be the government, it has to be the worker's demanding higher wages.
A market cannot function without a state to protect it from reality. The fact that you are unaware of the many state regulations and restrictions placed upon you is indicative of the state's education infrastructure doing its job.
Yes to empower corrupt politicians to become easily bribed and enact laws in favor of already powerful wealthy people. That is not a good counterbalance. Your regulations suck, the wiseguys will find ways around it, as always, but the small business owners will get fucked in the ass, and then forced to close their doors and find a minimum wage job. Your ideology gives birth only to more misery and corporatism, your socialism is what feeds the corporatists. We will not ever be able to cheat the laws of physics, and so to abandon and ignore them in favor of the happy story of economics is only going to be detrimental to ourselves and our environment in the long run. In an RBE, we recognize this fact and work within reality in order to protect ourselves and the planet from devastation and destruction. The freedom you have been sold is in fact a slavery to a monetary system.
Yes so you cannot cheat the laws of physics, but you somehow want to cheat the laws of biology and psychology of humans, in favor of your communist utopia, which is physically impossible , but let's just dream about it becoming true like 5 year olds. Fantasies like these are worse than a 5 year old girl dreaming about handsome knight on a white horse, atleast that has some remote chance of happening. |
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Shit I sold my car, but i`ll rebuy it and take it to that car service immediately. I hope they have "extra" services too besides the car repair |
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When was the last time you take your car to repair service ? 
