Before that, I didn't know the existence of the user name of DannyHamilton. I just created this account and it didn't take long. Do I have the freedom to create a user name?
I don't for one minute believe that you created this username randomly and without knowing the existence of the original account in question. Claiming so makes this situation look much worse and suspicious in my opinion. Changing n to m is a well known tactic of impostors. |
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People will always try exploit something or get around restrictions. People complained and cried about signatures when they were changed depending on rank and then people started selling accounts. The same thing will happen with merit but those trying to bend the rules will be punished as are people trying to sell accounts. Already hundreds of alt accounts have been busted trying to farm or trade merit and thousands more will likely be caught doing so.
This has been discussed already. The merit system is new - those who are handing out sMerit irresponsibly will soon run out.
And who will decide is the sMerti hoarding is allowed in this case or not? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that this won't work, just trying to realize the whole system. From what I see the merit is required to up the account from the Jr and so on, for instance, if someone who holds X amount of sMerit will be deprived of it how this sMerit(free) should be allocated to the others? Cause from what I see right now merit is kinda very valuable object which is needed for 80% of forum besides the hero/legendary and there is no mechanism to "mine" it because the amount of it will be just dropping down (50% system) " .......There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future." I don't think there's much of an issue with people hoarding merit; it's giving it to their alt accounts that is going to be the big issue. |
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Because you've posted in several threads that have since been trashcanned. Stop posting in unsubstantial threads, but I'd be more concerned about merit and also the negative feedback you have rather than a few posts going missing.
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So giving merit on a post is more subjective.
Of course it is subjective. How can we possibly come up with a rule on the type of posts you can or should give merit to? People leave them for helpful or constructive posts but what is helpful of constructive is up to the individual.
Second, only certain people give merit to quality posts. while others only give merit to people he knows.
Maybe the most well known users make the best posts? People become known in the community by being active and helpful so it's natural they will get the most merits, though on the flip side merits are largely useless for higher ranked accounts so I would rather give them out to lower ranked ones but to be honest lower ranks tend not to make great posts. |
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Op sent a merit to an account that has the same registered date as him: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1200534 Maingtoled1958 October 09, 2017 Coincidence?  Russian spammers are quite annoying. I'm waiting for someone to top the *~200 office employees* Russian spammer. Go whine somewhere else.  Yeah, there's huge amounts of farming going on with Russians. Chinese are the worst though as there's a Chinese farmer with hundreds if not thousands of accounts. He was botting them though in the Chinese section but once they hit their rank they migrate out of there to join campaigns. I don't have a full list of them but I've banned hundreds over the years and just found another batch of them (40+) because they're now farming merit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2998032.0 |
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Gonna add the following to the Activity FAQ. Is there any errors or anything I've missed that should be added: What is Merit?Merit is a new system created in order to reward quality contributions to the forum. Now to rise through ranks you will also need to acquire Merit in addition to Activity. How do I receive merit?You are awarded merit by people of the community if they find your post helpful or informative. How do I send Merit?There is a +Merit button at the top right of every post. To give merit click on it and follow the instructions. What is the difference between Merit and sMerit?There are two types of Merit. You cannot send your merits, just sMerit. For every Merit you receive you will have 0.5 spendable merit to give away as you please. Can I ask for merit?There is no need to do this and this behaviour is usually seen as 'merit begging' which is frowned upon by the community and may lead to you receiving negative feedback. Keep making quality, constructive posts and you will surely be rewarded over time. Can I sell merit?Selling merit is disallowed. Can I give merit to my alt accounts?Well you can, but this is frowned upon and will almost certainly lead to you receiving negative feedback if discovered. Can I be demerited or lose merit?No, not currently. Even if your post is removed the merit will still stay. What is a merit source?There are a certain number of special Merit sources who receive additional amounts of merit to give away. How do I become a merit source?As per theymos' instructions: If you want to be a merit source:
1. Be a somewhat established member.
2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread.
3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.
Is there a limit on how many merits I can send?Yes. You can give a max of 50 merit to a user every 30 days. Merit stats: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats |
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So I randomly stumbled upon these two posts and wasn't sure why they'd been merited for such poor quality but quickly uncovered a little merit ring that quickly turned into a huge rabbit merit hole. It's a bit messy but if you go to the bottom you can see all the accounts in question and they've all left merit to each other in some capacity. Bitcoin does not make the bank disappear, but it may exist as a new payment medium.
Merited by wolf one (2) I think 100 years from now there should be a lot of people who know bitcoin, when Bitcoin will exist as a global payment method.
Merited by okchain (2), frery (1), yuyuchain (1) But looking into wolf one he sent merit to these two which are obviously alts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1217777 Ada567 October 15, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1217788 Ailsa567 October 15, 2017 Also sent to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012685 frery May 26, 2017 frery also sent merit to Ailsa567 and okchain frery also received merit from buhchain, rmyg5907 and wolf one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012537 okchain May 26, 2017, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012548 buhuchain May 26, 2017, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964528 rmyg5907 March 04, 2017 rmyg5907 sent merit to qwesasd frery wolf one hdasd gcckpxm62308 akkocoin htmcoin qwesasd Ailsa567 sent merit to yuyuchain https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012567 yuyuchain May 26, 2017 yuyuchain also sent merit to yytcoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994981 yytcoin May 03, 2017 yytcoin sent merit to both Allison567 and Ada567 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1217840 Allison567 October 15, 2017 yytcoin recieved merit from gcckpxm62308 bjjobg55206 yuyuchain xapwxrm5742 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964524 gcckpxm62308 March 04, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964556 bjjobg55206 March 04, 2017 xapwxrm5742 sent merit to bttcoin and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994983 bttcoin May 03, 2017, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1007048 asdfbna May 20, 2017 bttcoin received merit from xapwxrm5742 and asdfbna yuyuchain recieved merit from ajjhu and uinu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1007044 uinu May 20, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012717 ajjhu May 26, 2017, hdasd sent to akkocoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994992 akkocoin May 03, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995541 htmcoin May 04, 2017 antchains sent to gulechain https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004742 gulechain gulechain sent to casdder https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995592 casdder May 04, 2017 casdder sent to clubchain casdder recieved merit from adsadsx https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995535 adsadsx May 04, 2017, adsadsx sent to bunsd https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004754 bunsd May 17, 2017 bunsd sent merit to CNY dasd https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995576 CNY dasd CNY dasd sent merit to clubchain. CNY dasd received merit from wnfmzm74 and bunsd May 17, 2017 bunsd sent merit to CNY dasd bunsd recieved merit from gamechain https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995278 gamechain May 04, 2017 gamechain sent merit to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004764 dashchain May 17, 2017 dashchain sent merit to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995570 bisdsad May 04, 2017 isdsad sent merit to buhchain bisdsad received merit from dashcain and wnfmzm74 and xapwxrm5742 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964547 wnfmzm74 March 04, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964530 xapwxrm5742 March 04, 2017 okchain sent merit to jritz2344973 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964558 jritz2344973 March 04, 2017 jritz2344973 sent merit to both okchain buhuchain wolf one also received merit from buhuchain rmyg5907 qwesasd wolf one also received merit from rmyg5907 qwesasd sent merit to wolf one and Ailsa567 and received merit from clubchain and rmyg5907 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012561 clubchain May 26, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012566 oiucoin May 26, 2017 clubchain sent merit to qwesasd oiucoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964521 qwesasd March 04, 2017 ================== https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964524 gcckpxm62308 March 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964556 bjjobg55206 March 04, 2017 carex https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964547 wnfmzm74 March 04, 2017 daneel https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964521 qwesasd March 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964530 xapwxrm5742 March 04, 2017 daneel https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964558 jritz2344973 March 04, 2017 carex https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=964528 rmyg5907 March 04, 2017 minerava https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994933 wolf one May 03, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994981 yytcoin May 03, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994983 bttcoin May 03, 2017, Astorgame.com https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994992 akkocoin May 03, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994928 kioicoin May 03, 2017 CareX https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994979 hgkcoin May 03, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995541 htmcoin May 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995592 casdder May 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995535 adsadsx May 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995576 CNY dasd May 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995278 gamechain May 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995570 bisdsad May 04, 2017 Astorgame.com https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995299 hdasd May 04, 2017, carex https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995238 goocoin May 04, 2017 carex https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995270 tlkchain May 04, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1002510 buinchain May 14, 2017 carex https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1002532 sadbvc May 14, 2017 daneel https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004742 gulechain May 17, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004764 dashchain May 17, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004754 bunsd May 17, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004737 bunca May 17, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1004731 rontme May 17, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1007048 asdfbna May 20, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1007044 uinu May 20, 2017 daneel https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012685 frery May 26, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012537 okchain May 26, 2017, tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012548 buhuchain May 26, 2017, tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012567 yuyuchain May 26, 2017 daneel https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012717 ajjhu May 26, 2017, tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012561 clubchain May 26, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012566 oiucoin May 26, 2017 daneel https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012565 oppochain May 26, 2017, Astorgame.com https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012676 antchains May 26, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1012712 noonc May 26, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1217777 Ada567 October 15, 2017 semux https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1217788 Ailsa567 October 15, 2017 tubi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1217840 Allison567 October 15, 2017 semux https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1220910 zwtnkpknbd October 16, 2017 tubi I've organised them by registration date but as you can see there are many other similarities as there's lost of 'coin's' and 'chains' in their names and most of them are all on the same crapcoin campaign Tubi. I then noticed the campaign was run by adsadsx which fits the pattern of the above as he sent merit to bunsd and casdder and his registration date fits: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=995535 adsadsx May 04, 2017 They all belong to a farmer who has been farming hundreds if not thousands of accounts using bots in the Chinese section for years. There's probably some I've missed if anyone want to check but don't bother tagging them because they're all banned. |
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There will be hundreds if not thousands of accounts abusing these crapcoin bounties and often they're blatantly obvious just by looking at their spreadsheets. Sometimes just going through their spreadhseets alone you will see patterns in usernames and post-counts etc. Sometimes just clicking on handful of profiles that joined the campaign at roughly the same time you will see they all have the same registered date or very close which is usually a good indication of alts. I'm sure many aren't smart enough to cover their tracks via blockchain evidence either and send to the same address etc but all of this is very time consuming to look into.
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Sir, a gt only a Dozen. Have no time to review my posts before hitting post button.
I am sorry again and I deserve all of this...
I doubt it. You likely have many more but just hope that an apology will stop others looking for them. I've requested an admin look into others but lucky for you that probably won't happen. |
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Props to hilariousandco for finding this guy and negging him.
I only found one. The rest were discovered by this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2902250.msg30766387#msg30766387Was bitcointalk signature campaigning your full time job? No not yet seemingly, but he was certainly considering it: Re: Quit your job to trade Altcoin? better you doing both,,
still do your job as usual and become crypto trader too,,
In my experience, I can do both as a full time company employee and a participant of some varieties of signature bounty campaigns because I still can manage my time in this forum while I'm on my duty but I cannot practice day trading that which will make you earn more money than joining bounty campaigns. Site of my friends are into Cryptocurrency trading so now I'm thinking quitting my job will offer me higher income in Cryptocurrency trading than staying in the company. It seems too risky to me. You can trade altcoin and treat it as an additional source of income. I would not quit working because in case of a loss, you still have to pay bills.
A lot of people are now working full-time with Crypto-Currency because they earn higher figure amount of money than their salary. For me, if your full-time job didn't limit your time for Cryptocurrency then you can do both otherwise quitting a job for Cryptocurrency as full-time trader is better than sticking with your job not unless of you're holding a good position in the company. Just complaining about how hard the merit system is for him which had obviously put a big spanner in the works of his campaigning. |
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Wait, how many accounts do you have?
12 This is a lie. The twelve are just the ones I've already found and tagged but you've previously admitted to having at least two dozen: My biggest regrets on Cryptocurrency is not within this forum for I didn't made a lot of accounts before the Merit system take over the ranking.
I wasn't able to make more forum accounts last year on August, for so, today I have more than 2 dozens of higher rank accounts like more than 2 dozens of Senior members that would be useful on earning a lot of Bounty stakes but that didn't happened because Merot and sMerot prohibited our chances of ranking up and get higher bounty stakes.
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Sorry for what?
Saying sorry is equivalent to saying I have done something wrong.
So, what's your sorry is all about?
Sorry about this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2902250.msg30769477#msg30769477Sir,
I am so sorry, it was indeed the hardest part of my reactions in related with the new Merit system.
I just want to push my ranks and with no more other interests and intentions.
Now, I regret the worst post I ever written in this forum and I shouldn't do it or erase or edit or anyway to remove it.
I am sorry Sir. If there's no way to earn back your trust then so be it and I deserve it.
Please accept my apology.
Those are my friends' accounts that I asked for favors to hit my Merits up.
I am sorry Sir.
"Friends" If I had a bitcoin for every time I've heard that.... Obviously a lie: Has "more than two dozen" according to this: My biggest regrets on Cryptocurrency is not within this forum for I didn't made a lot of accounts before the Merit system take over the ranking.
I wasn't able to make more forum accounts last year on August, for so, today I have more than 2 dozens of higher rank accounts like more than 2 dozens of Senior members that would be useful on earning a lot of Bounty stakes but that didn't happened because Merot and sMerot prohibited our chances of ranking up and get higher bounty stakes.
As for me, bounties (if not scams) are well paid. For pressing like or tweet button any price will do:) it is easy work and it is totally worth any risk.
Signature bounty campaigns are worth the risk and wish the wait and that's would be my best interest that I joined a dozen signature bounty campaigns at the same time because I want to get more Altcoins as long as I can because I know that someday my hard work will be paid off and it is not only for my personal fortune but also for my family as well. I got most of my Altcoins from signature bounty campaigns and the number of my forum accounts are growing because I want to get more Altcoins while I am able so now I'm holding $30,000 worth of Cryptocurrency assets and will soon spike as high as $140,000 that was actually hit last January 7th.
But now I am hoping that would get more bounty stakes this year.
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USER: Fria
Merit summary:
•February 19, 2018, 06:16:08 PM: 10 from Kolokoy for What is your underrated Coin that has the potential to be the next Top Altcoin
•February 12, 2018, 06:54:17 AM: 1 from parekoy for Re: Why are you selling your altcoins so soon?
•February 12, 2018, 06:20:24 AM: 1 from kaloloy for Re: Why are you selling your altcoins so soon?
•February 11, 2018, 05:15:21 PM: 1 from lovela for What is your underrated Coin that has the potential to be the next Top Altcoin
•February 11, 2018, 10:37:01 AM: 1 from superloy for What is your underrated Coin that has the potential to be the next Top Altcoin
•February 11, 2018, 07:41:57 AM: 4 from paloloy for Re: Are you afraid of hackers?
•February 10, 2018, 07:51:35 PM: 1 from Lewoll for What is your underrated Coin that has the potential to be the next Top Altcoin
•February 10, 2018, 07:05:45 PM: 4 from Bergiolia for Re: Are you afraid of hackers?
•February 08, 2018, 10:56:12 AM: 1 from ramini for Re: Facebook bans cryptocurrency ads..
•February 07, 2018, 07:23:34 AM: 2 from Bastime for Re: best altcoins to invest for 2018 ?
•February 07, 2018, 07:21:08 AM: 1 from Bastime for Re: Quit your job to trade Altcoin?
•February 07, 2018, 07:18:03 AM: 1 from Bastime for Re: Facebook bans cryptocurrency ads..
•January 29, 2018, 07:36:09 AM: 1 from kaloloy for Re: When crypto will die?
•January 28, 2018, 07:04:58 AM: 1 from Kolokoy for Re: The END is NEAR!
Nice find. If you check all the accounts that he left merit from you will see they all have in their aim address a day of the week which seemingly corresponds with the day they make posts on and a number which is usually the amount of posts they make (must be a self-reminder to hit their quota). Take ramini for example. In his AOL address he has Thursday and his posts on the first page are all on the 15th and 8th on Feb which are both Thursdays and he did 17 posts - two more than his quota but others are on the dot). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1187546 Fria October 04, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1226659 Lewoll October 18, 2017 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1096428 kaloloy August 05, 2017, monday https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1182317 Bergiolia October 02, 2017 monday 20 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=773557 Bastime February 17, 2016 monday 10 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1184939 Kolokoy October 03, 2017, tuesday https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1259054 parekoy October 28, 2017, wednesday 10 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1317719 superloy November 16, 2017 wednesday 15 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1271463 ramini November 01, 2017 thursday https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1322616 carlowell November 17, 2017 thursday 10 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1322625 lovela November 17, 2017 Sunday 20 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1182293 paloloy October 02, 2017 Sunday 15 All their emails begin with "btc." as well. Found another: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1183300 dangdangdang October 02, 2017 wednesday 15 Others to watch: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=209320 Amalker sent merit to both dangdangdang paloloy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=104657 favelle75 sent to Bergiolia Many of them are on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=86907 needmoney's campaigns as well (which I've been noticing a lot of spam from previously). Makes a change from them all usually being on sylon's shitcampaigns. ---------- Op, you are exactly why the merit system was created and you've kicked yourself in the balls with this thread. Well done. |
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Can anyone tell me how to get merit? Thank you in advance!
Make quality posts that contribute something to the discussion and you may get awarded it by someone. Post well and people will give it to you, spam and you won't get a thing.
In theory it is! But in fact it is not . people are afraid to give their smerit , as there were cases that painted the account, (this is the beginning ) now many hold for sale, already a lot of ads in the telegrams selling smerit (prices there from $ 10) and given that up to Fullmember need 90 merit-this means that many (90%) they just will not get! Who is afraid to give merit? The only people who should be afraid are those trying to get away with giving it to their alts. If you're giving it to random people who make great posts then there's nothing to be worried about and the system will work as intended. And most people who are trying to sell merit via telegram are probably likely just opportunistic scammers but people who are genuinely selling it will likely be caught eventually and receive negative feedback so is it really worth it? Just try and earn your merit the honest way rather than trying to cheat the system because it will be counter-productive if/when you are caught. |
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How is merit scored
Merit is given by people to users who's posts they find informative or helpful. As for the score, people can give anywhere between 1-50 merit points per post but this is up to the individual. |
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I think it is a waste of merit, and it goes against the spirit of the system. The idea of merit is to encourage fresh new posts and posters that are assets to the board. Rewarding tired old posts, and bumping out of date threads, isn't going to build a vibrant new community.
I disagree. If a post is great or informative it should still be considered for merit if you stumble across it and find it helpful or informative. At least we know those posts weren't just created for the explicit purpose of trying to get merit as many people are now doing. I have a couple of threads that were created before the Merit system that people seem to find helpful such as the Activity FAQ and Signature Campaign Guidelines thread and I don't think they should be exuded just on the basis of when they were created, but you and anyone else are certainly free to leave merit as you see fit. |
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I was asking this question in some of my posts towards merit discussion, but as I noticed nobody actually read previous comments and it stayed without reply, so i decided to create a possible thread to see people's opinions. Sorry if this question was asked already.
Yes, it's certainly possible. The merit system is more of an experiment right now and there's no guarantee it will be permanent but there's no plan to remove it either. Changes can and likely will be made to it especially regarding merit sources if it's not working as hoped. Theymos has previously mentioned that if it's not successful removing signatures will likely be the only other option so people who are complaining about the merit system have better make it work because lets face it the only reason those people are even here in the first place is to earn money and they'll disappear like a fart in the wind as soon as signatures were removed. |
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