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3801  Other / Off-topic / Re: Merry Christmas on: December 25, 2012, 12:31:19 AM
Merry Saturnalia, everyone! Grin
3802  Economy / Economics / Re: Regulatory Proposal for Bitcoin on: December 24, 2012, 12:41:05 PM

Hmm...  "look out for unethical, immoral and/or harmful business practices..."   Who decides what is unethical and immoral ?
What if someone wants to buy heroin, kiddieporn, pay a contract killer or buy a prostitute using bitcoin? We canīt let the
"moral majority" or any regulatory policy group set the rules when it comes to the use of bitcoin.  Itīs a dangerous path...   Cool
He's talking about business practices, not the nature of the business itself. For example, if I pay a contract killer to kill my wife, and he just takes my money without killing her, that would be a breach of contract (which is unethical), and I have a right to complain about his business practices. Frauds such as these are far too common in Bitcoinland, and we must put a stop to it!
3803  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Dwolla updates TOS 2012-12-23 on: December 23, 2012, 08:25:28 AM
I couldn't find the part where they reserve the right to defraud bitcoin related businesses.

You understand and agree that you will not engage in the following activities:
● Use the Dwolla System without written consent to operate or engage in any business regulated by FinCen, including the money service business;
● Act as a marketplace and/or exchange for virtual currency products without prior written consent;

...

You understand and agree that Dwolla is authorized, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, to take the following actions due User misconduct or Security Concerns as detailed in this section:
● Place a Hold on Your User Account for Up to 90 days:
● Temporarily or Permanently Suspend or otherwise Limit Your Access to Your User Account:
● Contact Users who have purchased goods or services from You, contact Your bank or credit card issuer, and/or warn other Users, law enforcement, or impacted third parties of Your actions; or
● Take legal action against you
3804  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: [Suspicious link removed] on: December 22, 2012, 04:31:17 AM
It was definitely a scam site. No legitimate site will accept PayPal for bitcoins, due to the risk of chargeback fraud. Also, how much did you pay? 8 bitcoins are currently worth about US$108, and the very few legitimate sellers who do accept PayPal will charge a hefty premium on top of that to make up for the chargeback risk. If you paid less than US$108 for your coins, you were certainly scammed (scammers frequently offer "discounts" to trick people into using them instead of reputable traders).
3805  Economy / Economics / Re: The Collapse of The American Dream Explained in Animation on: December 20, 2012, 01:07:23 AM
only 2 countries left unconquered, North Korea and Iran.
Wait, what happened to Cuba?
3806  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: A valid criticism of Bitcoin's design? on: December 17, 2012, 11:45:34 AM
I thought Shor's algorithm will break elliptic curve encryption once quantum computers are sufficiently large?

It just cuts the effective key size in half.  The current 160-bit signatures will be brute forced in 2^80 operations.  That sounds weak, but it's going to be a long time before quantum computers reach 160-bit levels (if ever), and even when they do the operations per second will be very low and 2^80 will be infeasible for a long time thereafter.
You're thinking of Grover's algorithm. Shor's algorithm does indeed break ECDSA in polynomial time, though we're a very long way off a useful implementation. And note that Bitcoin public keys are 256 bits, not 160 bits - the hash is 160 bits, but this is not broken by Shor's algorithm.
3807  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin design contract on: December 17, 2012, 05:49:01 AM
What exactly is the "core design", though?
The core design is anything that doesn't involve a hard-fork. So...

Can apparently-lost coins expire at some point? Can they be "recycled". Can the subsidy algorithm change as long as there are always fewer than 21 million bitcoins? If precision is increased, should this also increase the BTC limit slightly to be consistent with the current right-shift-based subsidy code? Etc.
No, no, no, and yes if it ever happens.

To make this stuff clear, I think that an explicit "Bitcoin contract" should be written and included in all Bitcoin clients which says exactly what properties are guaranteed by the Bitcoin network. For example, there should certainly be no more than 21 million bitcoins in existence at any one time. If anyone tries to change these guaranteed properties (via a BIP, for example), it will be easy to point to the Bitcoin contract and say that any network with the proposed changes would not be Bitcoin.
If it'll shut up the people who keep complaining about lost coins, I'm all for it.

One example of where this would be especially useful: It is likely that at some point ECDSA will be weakened and everyone will need to send their BTC to different addresses that use different signing algorithms. However, lost coins will not be moved, and when ECDSA is finally broken, these lost coins will be spent by random people. This will increase supply a lot, perhaps more than should be allowed. Perhaps old coins should be "expired" before this can happen. But does expiring coins violate the Bitcoin core design? A contract should exist to solve conflicts of this kind.
It won't increase the supply any more than the original limit, and in any case, most proposals for "expiring" old coins involve sending them to miners, ie, randomly distributing them according to computer power, which is exactly what will happen if ECDSA is ever broken. Remember, a lot of people will still be (unwisely) using old versions of Bitcoin long after ECDSA is broken (and it won't go from "completely safe" to "any key can be cracked in less than day" overnight, either), and it wouldn't be fair to effectively say to them "Hackers might steal your coins in the future, so we've arbitrarily decided to save them the trouble and steal them now."
3808  Other / Off-topic / Re: Farmer's Market got busted. Don't use Hushmail on: December 17, 2012, 05:21:43 AM
Then why does hushmail even exist?

What is the point of these people cheating others into believing they are doing them a favor?

Are they gathering info to blackmail their users??
The purpose is the protect email in transit: since email is a plaintext protocol, all unencrypted emails can be read by any server they pass through as they are routed to their destination. All those companies and governments have full access to all your email (whether it's legal for them to make use of it is another matter entirely). At least with Hushmail they need a court order to read it. Note that Hushmail isn't cheating anyone: they explicitly state that they won't protect you from this threat.
3809  Other / Off-topic / Re: Farmer's Market got busted. Don't use Hushmail on: December 17, 2012, 04:59:06 AM
It's a very old story:

www.privatliv.com/hushmail_report.pdf

The moral of the story is, encryption won't help you if your private keys are controlled by somebody else, especially if that somebody openly admits that they'll compromise your private keys if they receive a court order to do so. Roll Eyes
3810  Other / Off-topic / Re: I have an idea. on: December 17, 2012, 02:42:42 AM
Light clients and web wallets already do exactly this. You and average Joe are free to use them if you want, and other people are free to not use them and run a full node instead if they want. That's decentralisation at work.
3811  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Ponzi on: December 17, 2012, 12:36:41 AM
I did some research, and figured out what a ponzi scheme is. Its basically a pyramid scheme where you don't tell the people investing that they are in a pyramid scheme, right?
Wrong. Do more research. A Ponzi scheme is where you tell people that if they give you their money, you'll pay them back with interest. And you do, except that the interest isn't coming from actual business profits, it's just the money your investors originally gave you, plus the money from later investors. Naturally, once there aren't enough new investors putting more money in, the scammer won't be able to make the interest payments. The investors will demand their money back, only to find that their money's gone.

A pyramid scheme is similar, except instead of telling investors they'll receive interest on their payments, they receive money by recruiting more investors, and those new investors can make money by recuiting even more investors, until eventually there aren't enough investors left in the world to sustain the scheme and the investors on the bottom "layer" of the pyramid have no way of ever getting their money back.

So pyramid schemes are not fraud, but are still illegal. This means they are illegal even when using bitcoins, or other not-legal-tender currencies, correct? If so, a LOT of websites are illegal...
Pyramid schemes differ slightly from multi-level marketing schemes, where there are real products involved, but even those schemes are shady (though not always technically fraudulent or illegal).

Anyways, here is my question: What exactly is the real difference between a bubble (not illegal) and a pyramid scheme (illegal)?
A bubble is when a real product, with real value (note that despite what some people say, bitcoins do have real value, as they enable fast and secure transactions in a way not possible with other currencies), is traded at much higher prices than its true value simply because people think its value is going up and they can sell it to a "greater fool" later on. While many people lose money when bubbles inevitably burst, they are not in themselves a scam unless someone is misrepresenting the true nature of the investment.

I mean, I could create some fake currency (can a currency really be fake?) on a website backed by some mysterious (and basically useless) commodity, and let people bid on it and sell it to each other. I could then create a bunch of fake accounts (can an account really be fake?) on my own website and bid up the price myself. Knowing how things work, people will probably buy them just because their price has been increasing. Is this a pyramid scheme (illegal), a ponzi scheme (illegal), or just a bubble (not illegal)?
That's a pump-and-dump and is usually illegal.
3812  Other / Off-topic / Re: Trolling bitches on Christianmingle.com is awesome on: December 16, 2012, 06:10:45 AM
I strongly engorge reading up on these 2 world views, when you see the world for what it is, you can begin to understand what the point is.

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Hey, I strongly engorge reading certain things too, and while philosophy isn't one of them, I am accepting of other people's preferences, however strange they may seem.
3813  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Ponzi on: December 16, 2012, 05:38:28 AM
What I am wondering is, if this was actually illegal, since the money was not "fiat currency." If it is, would that mean that a ponzi scheme based on, I don't know, WoW gold, would be illegal too?
Ponzi schemes are illegal regardless of whether they involve "real" money or not. Whether it's dollars, bitcoins, WoW gold, actual gold, or pork bellies, it's still illegal.

Does that mean all those websites that don't even accept money, but say "you visit this link, and the next 2 visitors will visit yours" are illegal too, because they are ponzi-ing website pageloads?
That's a pyramid scheme, not a Ponzi scheme, which is also illegal for the same reason, though these site probably get away with it since there's nothing of real value involved.

The strangest part of Pirate's scam is that apparently nobody is willing to admit to the authorities that they were scammed, though I don't blame them. I mean, 3300% interest? Seriously? If I fell for a scam as stupidly obvious as that, I wouldn't admit it either. Roll Eyes
3814  Other / Off-topic / Re: How to live forever on: December 15, 2012, 11:51:18 PM
If everyone stopped eating, stopped killing, only loved, we would find all the energy we need within ourselves, and it lasts forever.  When people love, it gives other people more energy, which in turn gives you more energy, creating an ever increasing, ever lasting source of energy.
I'll believe that when you can power a steam engine with your love. Until then, I'll keep eating food, you can keep eating nothing, and we'll see who lives longer.
3815  Economy / Economics / Re: Why are savings interest rates TINY (lower than inflation) in the US? on: December 15, 2012, 09:01:11 AM
That's actually an easy question to answer. The interest rate charged by the central bank (where private banks get their money from) is what's different in the U.S.:

Reserve Bank of Australia: 3.00%
U.S. Federal Reserve: 0.00-0.25%

Of course, that just raises further questions, which are less easy. Wink
3816  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Science Fiction'n stuff] Why video games show that time travel is not possible on: December 15, 2012, 03:09:36 AM
There are also currently no video games that are able to convincingly simulate the interactions of all the neurons in a human brain, ergo, thinking is impossible. Now stop doing it, because you're not doing a good job of it. Roll Eyes Seriously, something will never be possible in real life because it's currently impossible in video games (which are bound by present, not future, technology)? What sort of logic is that?
3817  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Eric Schmidt: "I'm proud of our tax avoidance scheme...it's called capitalism" on: December 14, 2012, 12:56:25 PM
He's got a good point about the shareholders. Corporations are indeed legally obligated to not waste their shareholders' money, so it may very well be illegal for them to not take advantage of any tax loopholes they can find. I wonder how Starbucks's shareholders are reacting...
3818  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Can the bitcoin network run entirely inside Tor? on: December 14, 2012, 12:23:07 PM
You can easily configure Bitcoin to connect though Tor (in Options -> Network, turn on "Connect through SOCKS proxy" - the default proxy settings are for a standard Tor installation, though you will need to change them if your Tor setup is non-standard). You can also run Bitcoin as a hidden service, though (I'm pretty sure) other Tor nodes won't be able to connect to you automatically - to connect to hidden Bitcoin services, you need to manually set up each hidden service you want to connect to.

The wiki says that "...the network won't work if everyone does this. BitCoin requires that some country is still free." though I have no idea why it won't work. It seems to me like it should (though it would require some effort set it up), but maybe I'm missing something obvious. Huh
3819  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Is stealing Bitcoins illegal? on: December 14, 2012, 08:58:53 AM
On the way home from a night out you find a girl intoxicated on the side walk. Would taking her home be kidnapping?
Of course not, that's just being a good citizen. Oh wait, you mean taking her to my home... What if I take her to my home first, then take her back to her home afterwards? Not stealing, just borrowing. Wink
3820  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will bitcoin replace today's fiat? What are the advantages / disadvantages? on: December 14, 2012, 08:25:36 AM
Bitcoin in it's pure form can't (yet)... if only for waiting on confirmations...
If we use companies that guarantee the transactions instantly it's very possible, then again, what prevents anyone from making up new non existing bitcoins that they can spend at shops if that shop accepts this specific companies bitcoins...? They will be bitcoins, but not really, or really not.
No, shops using such a company will accept only real bitcoins*, from anyone, at zero confirmations (which is almost instant). If such a transaction turns out to be a double-spend (which is extremely unlikely for low-value transactions), the company reimburses the merchant (naturally, the company will charge a small fee for this service to cover the costs of the double-spends). This is exactly the same as how chargeback insurance works with credit cards.

*There seems to be a persistent idea that layering additional financial services on top of bitcoin (such as fraud protection or fractional reserve lending) requires the creation of new "fake" bitcoins (or rather, bitcoin-denominated bearer instruments) that are only redeemable for "real" bitcoins by a central issuer. I'm not really sure where this idea came from, but it's completely false.
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