How is this different from the 52 states (plus the rest of the world) borrowing dollars from the Federal Reserve, dollars, which too get printed out of thin air?
It's same everywhere, but before 1971 fiat money were backed by gold, so they were not printed out of nothing If you can devise a system in which paper is provably backed by gold without counterparty risk, I'll give you a bitcoin ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) I think it was 40% backed by gold under a gold standard, so it did have a risk of bank run, but that is very low risk, from a FRB point of view (The commercial banks usually have a 10% FRB without a bank run) Anyway, even in gold FRB, each dollar is backed by some gold, that practice has proved to be working most of the time. But in today's system, it is backed by nothing, 0% FRB, how could this keep the value of new money? Purely by people's consensus and they have no alternative medium of trading (I want to get rid of these useless paper but what other money can I use to do my trading with?) The ultimate thing that back the gold's value is still its high degree of payment acceptance: Gold is accepted everywhere on the planet, especially the governors in other nations. Even one nation went down, you could still move to other part of the planet with your gold and live a good life there. So it is actually backed by a gold culture formed in thousands of years Similarly, if a bitcoin culture established widely around the globe, then it will reach the same status as gold, as the gold for internet
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BFL mass shipping now, network hashrate over 200TH, multiple mini-rigs appeared in BTC guild
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From certain perspective, mining gold is a waste of resource, but it is some kind of work and it always has some cost related to each ounce of gold mined. Using gold as currency actually ensured some kind of fairness. If you totally remove that cost and create money out of nothing, then there will be a question:
Why everyone else has to work to get money while selected a few could just get money without work?
If you believe that the world should be ruled by selected a few super elites, then you will accept this unfairness, but if you believe that no one on this planet were borned to rule the others, then you might consider using honest money
Unfortunately there is no such thing as honest money. Money is a tool for manipulation and coercion. It has no other utility. If your goal is honesty, then use the resources available to you. That is the only honest way to run an economy. This is a bit conspiracy, I don't think there is someone purposedly manipulate there. Central banks just benefited from an opportunity that most of the people have no knowledge about money creation. It is difficult to imagine that if everyone are aware of this trick and against it, it could bypass the vote To understand the fiat money creation is not an easy thing, none of my friends/colleagues with university degree in economics could understand it correctly, what they know are unimportant technical details like FRB and money multiplier, m0, m1 definition etc...
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--------------------------------- Chip basic specifications: Process: TSMC 40G Performance single-chip Hash: 2G ~ 2.5G Chip business model: 1, selling mining machine 2, selling chips ASIC Team: The team in September 2012 initiated a TSMC 110nm of BTC ASIC chip, the chip mass production success in early 2013 The 110nm ASIC chip is the industry's first mass production of the BTC ASIC chip, the chip ASIC mining machine has done a lot of shipping. At present, the actual chip shipments of the industry's first home, the force generated by the chip count is the industry's first (and the recent 2 ~ 3 months will also return rising rapidly). Team Features: Technical and pragmatic, the chip is not greedy, not the pursuit of gimmicks The chip can guarantee the delivery time and delivery quantity BTW: We are not to judge others ASIC team, each team has its own technology roadmap and business models, and nothing more. ---------------------------------- http://bbs.btcman.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4621&extra=page%3D1
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From chinese forum, translated by google and modified bit ---------------------- BTC chip RTL design is not complicated, it is SHA256 algorithm. This is also the reason many ASIC chip vendors want to squeeze in the market: technical threshold is low, easy to get impulse. But what factors make an ASIC vendors adhere to the end of process? Personally I think there are a number of factors: 1, Choice of the Foundry. BTC chip finally rely on advanced technology, yield stability, capacity, fast response and good service Foundry. Intel and Samsung are the first to be excluded, in the remaining Foundries TSMC is the boss 2, the chip design is better, in particular better physical design. The basic idea is the full-custom, handmade Layout, little by little, slowly optimization, are living a little bit of effort embroidery. So those who want to come fishing for fast-food ASIC vendors, there is no way out. BTC chips maker do psychologically prepared to do a protracted war, and is ready to put ten million $ in Foundry 3, the best in the Foundry has a direct account, not through a third party chip design services company operations. General ASIC design services company can not understand BTC chip operating model, not necessarily be able to understand well executed. Understood and performed well, half a year gone 4, ASIC manufacturers of mining machine manufacturers, good service, fast response. And customer win is a lasting business 5, the mining machine is only a relatively simple electronic products, and ultimately China (especially in Shenzhen) is bound to become a global mining machine production base. China's ASIC vendors in the language, geography, etc. have a distinct advantage. Europe, the United States, ASIC vendors may one generation products are some brief technical advantage, but that advantage will not last more than six months, will soon be the strength of the Chinese manufacturers to catch up with and surpass --------------- Author claims to be the ASIC chips design team for Avalon, is there a split inside? ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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From certain perspective, mining gold is a waste of resource, but it is some kind of work and it always has some cost related to each ounce of gold mined. Using gold as currency actually ensured some kind of fairness. If you totally remove that cost and create money out of nothing, then there will be a question:
Why everyone else has to work to get money while selected a few could just get money without work?
If you believe that the world should be ruled by selected a few super elites, then you will accept this unfairness, but if you believe that no one on this planet were borned to rule the others, then you might consider using honest money
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The point is, gold has value, in a gold standard, in order to expand the money supply, banks must first get gold by providing valuable asset/service in exchange, so it is fair trading
It's this artificial ability to expand the money supply that allows the fiat economy to grow quicker. Properly managed, could this be beneficial to society? The fiat economy did grow quicker, but that has little to do with creating money out of nothing (counterfeiting), more comes from the technology improvement. In fact, it can grow much faster with honest money True, a growing economy need more money for transaction, but if you are lacking of money for expanding the economy, you should put more effort to mine the gold in order to increase the money supply, that is the honest way to do it, and that will also create a lot of job at mean time But now, the money creation, a big industry that can provide many jobs disappeared, replaced by a couple of high officials with their printers Anyway, the strange thing is that people still accept those money created out of nothing, seems they don't care about their real value as long as they could exchange consumable goods. Regarding money, people's behavior is very unconsious, there are a lot more to research in this area
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Which is better, to have a solvent world with half the population and technology of the 70s or today's world with defaults happening left and right?*
The point is, gold has value, in a gold standard, in order to expand the money supply, banks must first get gold by providing valuable asset/service in exchange, so it is fair trading But without the back of gold, banks create money out of nothing, so in principle the new money worth nothing. But in reality they still use these worthless paper to buy valuable things, it means banks unfairly benefited from the people's consensus of money's old value A common argument is that the resources are wasted in producing gold, but that's exactly why gold has value. If something you can create as much as you want without any effort, then it should have no value Fiat money still hold their value because people have no other choice, if they have alternative payment medium, then the fiat value will drop quickly because in principle they worth nothing
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Another reason is that people get fiat money as a form of income: salary, insurance, sales, social security, pension etc... it is connected to the whole government controlled system, and it has been inflated into every corner due to endless supply
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How is this different from the 52 states (plus the rest of the world) borrowing dollars from the Federal Reserve, dollars, which too get printed out of thin air?
The difference is Portugal along with some of the other PIIGS are serial defaulters. Portugal has defaulted on its national debt five times since 1800, Greece five times, Spain no less than seven times (and 13 times in all since 1500).
By contrast, Anglo-Saxon countries rarely, if ever, default. In this country, we haven’t reneged on our debts in nearly 1,000 years, though there have been close shaves. The same applies to Canada, Australia and the United States. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100081316/some-european-countries-are-in-the-habit-of-going-bankrupt/This is a good example of how people don't understand today's monetary system. They think if everyone work hard and never default, everyone will be rich and no debt ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) This is true in a gold backed monetary system, but not in today's debt based monetary system Since all the money is debt based, in the whole EURO area, if some country is getting a surplus, then there must be some other country in debt, and the whole EURO area must be in net debt, unless they could gain some surplus through trading with some other countries outside EU, which just kick the debt to some other parts of the world
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The central bank create the fiat money and lend them out, those money will finance different project to create job/product/service and improve the economy
But as central banks in bitcoin economy(miner), they create the money but sell them in exchange for some other foreign currencies, because currently the bitcoin's value is too low
FED print 2.8 Billion new USD each day but bitcoin generate only 3600 new coins, how could this amount of coin drive any significant economy activity?
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oh and since you think you and your btc can make it without the 'system' why dont you give up all the stuff you bought with fiat, give up your job that pays you fiat and try living on your btc.
let's see if you're not sucking men for fiat in a couple of months.
So, if you can buy anything with bitcoin you will give up the fiat? Look at bitmit.net and see what you can buy there I don't think the option of consumption is the deciding factor, in fact many merchants accept bitcoin, but people still don't use them, maybe they are afraid that one day government will invervene and shut it down (although technically it is not possible) can i buy a piece of land with btc? oh hey i want to go to hawaii, i need a plane ticket. should i use my credit card or btc? oh wait no airline accepts btc. duh. Of course not everything on the planet, just like no chinese airline accept USD payment, you have to exchange to CNY first
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"Money as debt" is a confused concept.
Money is base money plus debt.
Base money is bitcoins, gold, dollar bills and token coins, euro bills and other base fiat.
Base money is not debt.
Base fiat money is debt in today's system, before 1971 it is backed by gold, now it is only backed by debt When central bank create base money, they buy government bonds, so that government get money to spend. Government must payback the interest and principal of those bonds, so government is debt laiden when they get the money Since all the newly created money is entering the society through this way, every dollar is backed by corresponding amount of national debt
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oh and since you think you and your btc can make it without the 'system' why dont you give up all the stuff you bought with fiat, give up your job that pays you fiat and try living on your btc.
let's see if you're not sucking men for fiat in a couple of months.
So, if you can buy anything with bitcoin you will give up the fiat? Look at bitmit.net and see what you can buy there I don't think the option of consumption is the deciding factor, in fact many merchants accept bitcoin, but people still don't use them, maybe they are afraid that one day government will invervene and shut it down (although technically it is not possible)
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After upgraded to this firmware, all my fans running at 720 RPM and the temperature just keep going up until it reaches 50 degree then all the fans will blow at full speed, is there any way to adjust this behavior to be more gradual? I tried --avalon-auto and --avalon-fan 20-100, seems not working
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"those not backed by the full faith and credit of an issuing government" ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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If you really want to save BitCoin and keep the bankers/forex traders from having such an effect on BTC's value? Quit comparing it to USD. Take only BTC/LTC/devcoin/etc. and ignore these other fiat currencies. As long as cryptocurreny values are compared to fiat currencies and we do not set (and stick with) what we feel the value to be, then we'll continue giving the Big Banks and forex traders all the power they need to destabilize our nascent economy.
Will never happen. Fiat is Bitcoin's only link to reality, to real economy. Just like the rest of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is created by fiat. Unlike other currencies, Bitcoin's worth is not backed by political clout, military might, or an economy -- it's backed by nothing. inb4 but minerz: Real currency isn't backed by the nice men who make the plates and run the presses that print the bills -- that's just how money is printed. Bitcoin is similarly not backed by the nice miners who run their rigs 24/7 -- that's just how bitcoins are made. Fiat is backed by a consensus which is mostly ensured by the government's law enforcement. But bitcoin is a totally virtual thing in internet, it is also a consensus, but only backed by mathematics. It is an abstraction layer above the physical world, which currently is out of reach of most of the people's imagination, it takes time for people to reach a consensus about its value
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It will always be the case (with Bitcoin) that specialization will tend make mining profitable only to a few and benefit from economics of scale.
This is only temperary due to the introduction of ASIC devices, soon ASIC devices will be everywhere and there will be no economics of scale (you pay more electricity to get more coins), just like early days of GPU mining, the most profitable ones are those have free electricity, those large mining farms typically have huge cost
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If we were each in charge of a world, which world would you prefer?
It's not about now, it is about a long term perspective. The debt based money creation might excel in 50 years, but in the long run it is destined to collapse by the weight of itself
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Bottom-line is that either people believe in the long term viability of Bitcoin or not. I would like to see some analysis on the cost of production for a single BTC, That would be a price that should have a great support level. That would be a place I would enter the market. Who wants to buy some silver? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Cost of production depends on the number of participants. The cost is 10x when there are 36000 people mining coins, comparing to when there are only 3600 people mining bitcoins
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