...welcome!
Thank you. It's hard to believe that was my first post. I've been following the main Monero thread since page 1.  I'm impressed. I could never get my fingers to shut-up for that long.  |
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Most people that are currently mining XMR are doing so at a loss (electricity costs exceed revenue). The only logical explanation on what they do with the XMR they mine is that they hold the XMR, in expectations that it will increase in value.
I can say this because I'm a miner also.
Bolded an important word. There are definitely miners who either do not pay for electricity or are using other's. I have been CPU mining Monero since May 2014 on a cloudatcost VPS that I paid $35 for (one-time fee). I also have a 280x GPU rig with 5 cards in my company's warehouse that was originally built to mine Litecoin. I don't pay the electricity, but it's out in the open and everyone knows what it's doing. In a place like this, that miner's electricity usage is a drop in the ocean. I have never sold any of my mined Monero. I don't intend to for a long while.Words too wise for a first post--welcome! |
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Well, because this is where the conversation is happening, maybe FINALLY i can get some input to a point I raised in another version of this thread.
The coupling of darkcoin privacy tech to the currency value.
If DRK goes to the moon, as it were, this could lead to an increasingly small number of masternodes - people cashing out. The ridiculous MN rewards may be enough to keep people in, maybe not.
Or, it will lead to a centralization of masternodes to people that can afford the price. And guess who those people usually are?
oh yeah the banks we were trying to get away from, or the governments that can just print money to entice anyone.
and what happens if, to mitigate this, it is proposed to decrease the stake required to 500 drk? forking.
its crazy - the cheaper DRK is, the more secure the privacy tech because anyone can provide the resource to the network..... because thats the whole point of decentralization.........
What about miners? How are they compensated compared to masternodes? |
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I still don't understand what these "probabilities" illustrate? Either a transaction is traceable or it isn't. What exactly are the probabilities for?
For the gentleman (whose name I forgot  sorry!) The refusal to comment on the implications of the chart, should the data be valid, shows yourself to be disingenuous. As a scientist and educator, I have no problem challenging the data behind a graph while recognizing the implication of that graph as it stands. It saves time, and shows respect for a worthy opponent. (Not to mention, demonstrates you have at least the education necessary to comprehend the math behind it.) There were many (and still a few, though much less) who disputed the validity of the data coming out of the LHC when the discovery of the Higg's Boson was announced. There was no disputing of the fact that the charts seemed to indicate that fact-- if--the data was subsequently verified; which it was. Your unwillingness to commit to the significance of majamina's chart reveals a mindset more concerned with preserving your personal status than one of someone who is truly in pursuit of the truth. That was sadly apparent after my reading the first few posts on this thread, and why I have refused to participate here. I will watch for a little while to see the response this post gets. And maybe, if, it is received (and even countered) in a respectful manner I continue to check in. Peace to you all... That's a lot of presumptions based off minuscule data. I wasn't disputing the chart--I just had a hunch that the infographic and chart was disingenuous and didn't include all the variables to conclude that dark was as anonymous as Monero (or good enough), and my hunch was proved correct by Fluffy. Now, if I entertained the idea that it was legitimate and dark was indeed every bit as secure and anonymous as Monero (notice no one in drk land ever makes this claim, but Bitcoin devs praise Monero's anonymity while never mentioning drk--just funny, thought I'd twist the knife a bit), but again I'll play fool to your sales pitch and for the sake of argument say drk is as anonymous as Monero, what then? Well, since i'm an investor, I say, "Hmmm, since anonymity is an even trait, lets go to trait two: leadership. On one hand I have a dev team respected by their peers, with a clear goal, and is open and honest from everything to development to the chance of failure (not only of their coin, but all cryptos) and treats peers whom they respect and who are working on rival technologies with kindness and openness (see G. Maxwell). Now on the other hand I have a dev who lied about when he was going to launch his coin, then proceeds to mine it an incredible speed, locks it to only Linux, and manages to get 1.5 million coins in 8 hours and then claims it was a mistake--cool, did he own it? No, he said it was an accident and then didn't relaunch the coin. So what am I to think? Is he bad with his own project or is he a bold face liar? Doesn't matter--because if he fast mined it and "owned-it", I'd at least know he was ballsy. And if he made a mistake with his code and said "whoops, happens, sorry guys, deepest apologies," all would be forgiven once he fixed the code and did a relaunch." Except that's not what happened. He either lied which means he can't own up to his actions, or he made a mistake and compounded it with an even bigger mistake that was more easily avoidable and would have done much to restore faith in his project. Now compound that with buzz words, fantastic promises, name changes, and little to no respect from well-known devs and you get me saying I'll go with Monero if all things are equal. You guys have terrible leadership and there isn't a gimmick in the world that can fix that. And yes, I'm not a scientist or cryptographer, but I know who the smartest person in the room is, and when it's not me, I listen. So drowning Fluffy out with claims of you haven't proved it beyond my impossible standard of doubt is like congressman holding up a snowball and claiming, "See, no global warming!" |
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No cop out--Evan burned the trust bridge, so I have no inclination (nor should I) to give his figures the benefit of the doubt.
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As far as metadata is concerned, I'm assuming many mn's will not be using best practices and will leak information unbeknownst to the operator, which could set-up scenarios where they are surreptitiously being observed?
well we covered all that earlier....for the sake of argument, let's go binary and say a masternode is either compromised or it isn't, then consider the numbers in the table. You need to compromise 100% of the network to reliably trace all transactions. This is obviously the most extreme case. A more useful question would be 'where do things start to get interesting'. Well, if we had 1 billion transactions per day, you'd need about 75% of the network compromised to trace just one of those transactions each day. Make of that what you will. I don't think anyone would argue with cryptonote coins offering the best anonymity set at the moment, the question becomes,"is dark's as advertised or good enough?" The as advertised is a hard sell given the already well discussed insta/accidental mine and the re-names that look like the "under new management" sign at the local dive.
Yep fair enough, as I said I think we've covered the instamine topic As an investor, you would have to prove to me that your numbers are correct that indeed your management was forthright and had the investor's best interest in mind with every decision, and that you are offering the best product for the service desired. If you want to act like a company, this is what would be expected by most rational investors.
OK well if that's your criteria for investment then fair enough. I disagree with your statement about 'rational investors' though....I know many professional investors, with varied styles and varying attitudes to risk. It's not a one-size-fits-all game, and you can peddle the 'DRK is crooked' argument until you're blue in the face but people are still investing in it. People invest in Enron and Haliburton. Call DRK a scam, a cult, whatever...the market does not lie. People investing in Enron or Haliburton, doesn't do anything for my confidence --well, it does, but certainly not in a good way. It seems like everyone involved in your project is focused on profits, but not on any redeemable goal. |
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I think you'll understand my distrust of figures and graphs coming from Evan, or based from his initial calculations, so I'll wait for a trusted source to verify.
Sure I can understand that. The code will be open-source so we can look forward to a healthy dissection In the meantime there's no harm in debating the figures....let's assume they're true, for the sake of argument. What then? That's the thing, I won't. |
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I am thinking about putting another 10BTC on XMR yet i also want to wait for a nice big dump....What do? I don't think that big dump is coming anytime soon--but it seems the buying isn't rushed, so you could buy a little each day and mitigate the chance of buying on a short-term dip. Risto has access to more market information, so maybe he can give you a better incite. |
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OK I plotted the curve:  Here are the numbers of nodes behind the graph - sorry, Excel only renders percentages to 30 decimal places so I'll do 2 tables, one with percentages and one with numbers. 1.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 2.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 3.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 4.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 5.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 6.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 7.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 8.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 9.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 10.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 11.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 12.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 13.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 14.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 15.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 16.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 17.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 18.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 19.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 20.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 21.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 22.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 23.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 24.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 25.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 26.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 27.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 28.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 29.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 30.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 31.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 32.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 33.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 34.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 35.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 36.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 37.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 38.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 39.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000000% 40.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000001% 41.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000011% 42.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000072% 43.00% 0.000000000000000000000000000476% 44.00% 0.000000000000000000000000002994% 45.00% 0.000000000000000000000000018072% 46.00% 0.000000000000000000000000104864% 47.00% 0.000000000000000000000000585907% 48.00% 0.000000000000000000000003157177% 49.00% 0.000000000000000000000016431848% 50.00% 0.000000000000000000000082718061% 51.00% 0.000000000000000000000403286875% 52.00% 0.000000000000000000001906634691% 53.00% 0.000000000000000000008751239469% 54.00% 0.000000000000000000039039188890% 55.00% 0.000000000000000000169439694425% 56.00% 0.000000000000000000716212935450% 57.00% 0.000000000000000002951130766537% 58.00% 0.000000000000000011864228024849% 59.00% 0.000000000000000046575865222660% 60.00% 0.000000000000000178689910246017% 61.00% 0.000000000000000670481502485578% 62.00% 0.000000000000002462267086575060% 63.00% 0.000000000000008856129455897360% 64.00% 0.000000000000031217485503159900% 65.00% 0.000000000000107911699285832000% 66.00% 0.000000000000366028450492200000% 67.00% 0.000000000001218945296953730000% 68.00% 0.000000000003987613122381620000% 69.00% 0.000000000012821158200314400000% 70.00% 0.000000000040536215597144200000% 71.00% 0.000000000126086299122345000000% 72.00% 0.000000000386011029987512000000% 73.00% 0.000000001163667244198870000000% 74.00% 0.000000003455712297483980000000% 75.00% 0.000000010113490511326700000000% 76.00% 0.000000029180140755877400000000% 77.00% 0.000000083034392727673100000000% 78.00% 0.000000233113924181152000000000% 79.00% 0.000000645903002286135000000000% 80.00% 0.000001766847064778400000000000% 81.00% 0.000004773110738113080000000000% 82.00% 0.000012738203734425700000000000% 83.00% 0.000033592891719906800000000000% 84.00% 0.000087567486675137000000000000% 85.00% 0.000225690904542536000000000000% 86.00% 0.000575275792642648000000000000% 87.00% 0.001450575070699360000000000000% 88.00% 0.003619209906631740000000000000% 89.00% 0.008937180547945420000000000000% 90.00% 0.021847450052839300000000000000% 91.00% 0.052882427867883300000000000000% 92.00% 0.126772830665687000000000000000% 93.00% 0.301048095645893000000000000000% 94.00% 0.708318015672206000000000000000% 95.00% 1.651537438501360000000000000000% 96.00% 3.816793317353630000000000000000% 97.00% 8.744575691882720000000000000000% 98.00% 19.864885008204100000000000000000% 99.00% 44.752321376381000000000000000000% 100.00% 100.000000000000000000000000000000% 1.00% 1E-160 2.00% 1.2089E-136 3.00% 1.4781E-122 4.00% 1.4615E-112 5.00% 8.2718E-105 6.00% 1.7869E-98 7.00% 4.05362E-93 8.00% 1.76685E-88 9.00% 2.18475E-84 10.00% 1E-80 11.00% 2.0484E-77 12.00% 2.16023E-74 13.00% 1.30457E-71 14.00% 4.90053E-69 15.00% 1.22265E-66 16.00% 2.13599E-64 17.00% 2.72844E-62 18.00% 2.64119E-60 19.00% 1.99659E-58 20.00% 1.20893E-56 21.00% 5.99161E-55 22.00% 2.47636E-53 23.00% 8.67415E-52 24.00% 2.61156E-50 25.00% 6.84228E-49 26.00% 1.57713E-47 27.00% 3.22925E-46 28.00% 5.92437E-45 29.00% 9.81386E-44 30.00% 1.47809E-42 31.00% 2.03674E-41 32.00% 2.58225E-40 33.00% 3.02772E-39 34.00% 3.29848E-38 35.00% 3.35308E-37 36.00% 3.19301E-36 37.00% 2.8585E-35 38.00% 2.41372E-34 39.00% 1.92827E-33 40.00% 1.4615E-32 41.00% 1.05368E-31 42.00% 7.24341E-31 43.00% 4.75857E-30 44.00% 2.99374E-29 45.00% 1.80718E-28 46.00% 1.04864E-27 47.00% 5.85907E-27 48.00% 3.15718E-26 49.00% 1.64318E-25 50.00% 8.27181E-25 51.00% 4.03287E-24 52.00% 1.90663E-23 53.00% 8.75124E-23 54.00% 3.90392E-22 55.00% 1.6944E-21 56.00% 7.16213E-21 57.00% 2.95113E-20 58.00% 1.18642E-19 59.00% 4.65759E-19 60.00% 1.7869E-18 61.00% 6.70482E-18 62.00% 2.46227E-17 63.00% 8.85613E-17 64.00% 3.12175E-16 65.00% 1.07912E-15 66.00% 3.66028E-15 67.00% 1.21895E-14 68.00% 3.98761E-14 69.00% 1.28212E-13 70.00% 4.05362E-13 71.00% 1.26086E-12 72.00% 3.86011E-12 73.00% 1.16367E-11 74.00% 3.45571E-11 75.00% 1.01135E-10 76.00% 2.91801E-10 77.00% 8.30344E-10 78.00% 2.33114E-09 79.00% 6.45903E-09 80.00% 1.76685E-08 81.00% 4.77311E-08 82.00% 1.27382E-07 83.00% 3.35929E-07 84.00% 8.75675E-07 85.00% 2.25691E-06 86.00% 5.75276E-06 87.00% 1.45058E-05 88.00% 3.61921E-05 89.00% 8.93718E-05 90.00% 0.000218475 91.00% 0.000528824 92.00% 0.001267728 93.00% 0.003010481 94.00% 0.00708318 95.00% 0.016515374 96.00% 0.038167933 97.00% 0.087445757 98.00% 0.19864885 99.00% 0.447523214 100.00% 1 I think you'll understand my distrust of figures and graphs coming from Evan, or based from his initial calculations, so I'll wait for a trusted source to verify. |
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As far as metadata is concerned, I'm assuming many mn's will not be using best practices and will leak information unbeknownst to the operator, which could set-up scenarios where they are surreptitiously being observed?
I don't think anyone would argue with cryptonote coins offering the best anonymity set at the moment, the question becomes,"is dark's as advertised or good enough?" The as advertised is a hard sell given the already well discussed insta/accidental mine and the re-names that look like the "under new management" sign at the local dive.
As an investor, you would have to prove to me that your numbers are correct, that indeed your management was forthright and had the investor's best interest in mind with every decision, and that you are offering the best product for the service desired. If you want to act like a company, this is what would be expected by most rational investors.
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Well it's disappointing to get up this morning and find the thread only talking about 'instamine'. I realise that DASH opponents see good reason to keep this going, but I also think it's a topic that's been done to absolute death with every possible angle having been explored on these forums.
Endless re-iteration is not a characteristic of reasonable debate. In a formal debate both sides generally have a set time to state their case on a topic, after which it would be closed and those witnessing the debate would be left to make up their minds.
Both sides have had endless opportunity to state their 'Instamine' case, so at least in this thread we should close the topic and keep things moving with fresh or unexplored aspects of DASH vs XMR.
A topic that hasn't been fully explored is Masternode security. This is very much 'up in the air', and last night I posted some numbers about the probability of tracing Darksend transactions with Masternode Blinding in place. Perhaps we could discuss that, since these numbers were so critical to the technical arguments against Masternodes/Darksend during the earlier technical debate in this thread.
How many masternodes would have to be in possession for anonymity to be broken with a fair degree of success? Does this number increase or decrease with nodes attacking other nodes? Does metadata collection improve the chances of breaking anonymity? To what measure? Do masternodes add any security to the network? If not, why are they present? Do ring signatures offer greater security? OK, since Masternode blinding has been a major bone of contention in this thread, I did some hunting for posts about the subject. Here's what Evan posted recently:
Probability of following Darksend through
- 4 non-blinded rounds with 10 masternodes* is (10/2300)^4 == 3.5734577849564574e-10
- 4 blinded rounds with 10 masternodes is ((10/2300.0)^20)**4 == 1.1528508353537067e-189
Each round uses 20 random masternodes of 2300, so you must control 20 of 2300 four times in a row. It's super secure
The formula therefore gives the following probabilities with increasing numbers of compromised masternodes: - 3 rounds with 10 masternodes is ((10/2300.0)^20)^3 == 1.9784716837512123e-142 - 4 rounds with 1000 masternodes is ((1000/2300.0)^20)^4 == 1.1528508353537028e-29 - 4 rounds with 2000 masternodes is ((2000/2300)^20)^4 == 1.39371e-05 [...] And this infographic:  Even if you take the super-extreme example of comprimising 2,000 masternodes (over 85% of the network) there is still only a .00139% chance of tracing an individual transaction. Nice infographic, but doesn't answer all (or even most) of my questions. |
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Well it's disappointing to get up this morning and find the thread only talking about 'instamine'. I realise that DASH opponents see good reason to keep this going, but I also think it's a topic that's been done to absolute death with every possible angle having been explored on these forums.
Endless re-iteration is not a characteristic of reasonable debate. In a formal debate both sides generally have a set time to state their case on a topic, after which it would be closed and those witnessing the debate would be left to make up their minds.
Both sides have had endless opportunity to state their 'Instamine' case, so at least in this thread we should close the topic and keep things moving with fresh or unexplored aspects of DASH vs XMR.
A topic that hasn't been fully explored is Masternode security. This is very much 'up in the air', and last night I posted some numbers about the probability of tracing Darksend transactions with Masternode Blinding in place. Perhaps we could discuss that, since these numbers were so critical to the technical arguments against Masternodes/Darksend during the earlier technical debate in this thread.
How many masternodes would have to be in possession for anonymity to be broken with a fair degree of success? Does this number increase or decrease with nodes attacking other nodes? Does metadata collection improve the chances of breaking anonymity? To what measure? Do masternodes add any security to the network? If not, why are they present? Do ring signatures offer greater security? |
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There is no reason why XMR could not replace BTC There reason XMR cannot replace BTC is that both are antifragile. XMR only strengthens BTC. If BTC needs to incorporate innovative features proven in XMR, it will. And vice versa. They are complements, not substitutes or competition, and should gravitate towards parity. I respectfully disagree. First of all, I do not think btc is the ultimate crypto currency. It is the first one like this type but certainly is not the ultimate. I do not say bitcoin will be broken but I just dare to claim bitcoin might lose its popularity. It is challenging to sell bitcoins these days to noobs. They think it is too expensive and in declining trend which is an adoption killer combination. Who wants to buy an asset that gets dumped, it is pure stupidity. Monero can fix economically bitcoin's wild fluctuation problem and grow steadily (traders are here playing a crucial role - they give markets both sellers and buyers and thus cutting the over-reactions into both ways). On the other hand, accumulation and adoption will put Monero to rising price channel that might take years or even decades (unheard in crypto). Basically extremely long term steady bull-market for sure 99.99 % probability will attract huge amounts of money. But this needs to be proven by time and the price cannot rise too fast so that it will not feel risky investment. That is the factor that potentially be crucial in replacing bitcoin. If I am not mistaken, the devs are working on option into XMR to use it also publically...? Am I completely wrong? Anything that bitcoin has can be included into Monero.I think you're referring to the viewkey. * https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/en/how-can-monero-be-both-anonymous-and-transparent-same-time |
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only benefitted those within the first 40 hours of launch is a scam.
What about something that primarily benefited people within the first 8 hours (1.5 million coins) or the first one hour (570k coins)All of that happened after the developer told everyone to come back in a few days after he did more testing and fixed bugs because he "definitely" wasn't going to launch within a few hours, a few hours before he launched. Which means BTW given the current tally of 5,231,624, 10.8% of the current supply was mined within the first hour. I just lost love how Blockafett says it's like rewarding a CEO and the CEO calls it an accident, but neither calls it a reason to relaunch and set the record straight--  |
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I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:
1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.
I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.
Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?" Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting. 1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS".... 2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons. No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out. DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time. It's a bit much. Investors aren't that stupid either. 3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue. Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when. Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions. Investors will take all this in context. They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges. 1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning signs like this. 2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk. 3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs. 1. trying to say that at the time, no one thought it was dramatic. now DASH is the top alt after LTC, it's easy to use hindsight to say it was dramatic. It wasn't, it was just a random coin launch on BCT with 10 others that day for people to take a break from DOGE. You could have gone and instamined too if you had found the right coin and chosen to mine it. 2. it's just the party line that coins like DRK are 'marketing' and 'greedy' and the people are 'stupid'. but ask yourself how true is this really? right now drk devs are slaving away developing features like first crypto you can spend without having to go and make a cup of tea while you wait. while no less than 5 of your devs have been on this thread making multiple accusations against drk. how much of the monero story is hype and how much is being delivered? we have totally opposite opinions on this obviously. 3. Sure, the usual opinion. but just saying drk is insecure and weak doesn't make it so, so maybe the market is smarter than you think, each to his own anyway 1. Doesn't matter how it looked at the time (or how you want it to have looked), many coins are/were using fast/insta mine techniques to raise money followed by pump and dumps to reach maximum btc accumulation--your coin looks like this to me. Thankfully i can use my own good judgement and avoid things that look and smell scammy. Also, you dev said it was an accident, so are you saying it is not? And furthermore, I don't want to own or be part of an instamine--I don't know if you're projecting greed onto me, but you really do need to know how bad statements like this sound. 2. I don't know that your devs are slaving away--they should be finding a way out of centralized masternodes and other privacy flawed strategies--but more to the point of your comparison, not one of your devs has ever offered a valid critique of Monero's privacy features, and thankfully Monero's devs will point out flaws within another coin. This is how antifragile should work, so instead of using at as a weak argument, yopu should be thanking them for taking the time to point out flaws, that if fixed, would improve your coin. 3. This: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=31. Ok that's your opinion. For me I would rather all coin Devs I invest in have upto maybe 5% of the supply to incentivize them to actually do work, the same as how I don't invest in startup companies where the CEO isn't incentivized sufficiently - because it's the best way to get them to deliver. Saying this is a negative thing is backwards to me. No VC would touch it for a start. Obviously you have to exclude coins like 'bang' or 'boom' or whatever that are clearly P&D vehicles, just coins where you have synergy with the long term aims and pass your own due diligence. Secondly, scam and instamine are 2 seperate things. A dev can choose whatever they want for their coin, it's not illegal. The scam comes in when a dev instamines and then doesn't deliver what he says he will to profit from the investors, and then dumps, that's a scam or more specifically a ponzi scheme. That hasn't happened with DRK - instead, after 1 year, it's the top alt and just cracked instant transactions plus anonymity. So no, I don't think the instamine is a 'scam', it's the best project I invested in because the 20 other alts I invested in, the devs either didn't develop or ran off and I had to learn a lesson lol. DRK is still here and going strong and no one can argue they aren't busting a nut in terms of development because it's all public... 2. I don't think masternodes are centralized because I have one and it's just a wallet running in masternode mode on a shit PC. It's just the same as a fullnode. All the XMR accusations just show lack of knowledge. All aspects of the crypto p2p paradigm transpose to the 2nd tier, you basically already have the aspects with BTC full node network. You had monero devs here saying things like 'without failovers the MN network is insecure' - so even basic knowledge of how P2P network functions is aparently lacking. And saying all the nodes are on amazon so the NSA can snoop them - MN are in 30 countries with different governments, anyway. Last, why does a DRK dev need to comment on Monero? its doing just fine. If monero ever gets off Poloniex and shows that the real market wants it, maybe DRK can learn something. 3. can't listen right now but thanks i will later 1. The Monero devs, as Satoshi did before them, are mining, buying, or having funds donated to them. This is a technology being developed for the simple reason of creating an ecash as was outlined by the cypherpunks. If you don't see that as motivation enough, it explains why you've been burned by so many other projects and will probably be burned by this one. Again, sdc is a better pure profit play at the moment, and I'm sure profit minded people will figure this out. Instamine is scammy in the sense that it shows greed as the primary motive--this in my mind is scam enough. You go your way, I'll go mine. 2. 30 countries? Isn't close to 60% of mn's in two-three countries? So that's some centralization. Also, doesn't the reward scheme benefit masternodes who attack other masternodes and hold the total below a 1000? You do need to address everything in my above 3 before I'd ever consider investing in drk. Saying the marketcap is big (less than billion makes us all small by most standards) just means your market cap is bigger than Monero's--you can't glean any long term facts from that figure, see dotcom boom. My thinking is that you are playing Pets.com to Monero's Google. 3. Convenient. |
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I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:
1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.
I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.
Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?" Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting. 1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS".... 2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons. No one buys the 'sudden shock ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out. DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time. It's a bit much. Investors aren't that stupid either. 3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue. Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when. Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions. Investors will take all this in context. They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges. 1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning signs like this. 2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk. 3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs. 1. trying to say that at the time, no one thought it was dramatic. now DASH is the top alt after LTC, it's easy to use hindsight to say it was dramatic. It wasn't, it was just a random coin launch on BCT with 10 others that day for people to take a break from DOGE. You could have gone and instamined too if you had found the right coin and chosen to mine it. 2. it's just the party line that coins like DRK are 'marketing' and 'greedy' and the people are 'stupid'. but ask yourself how true is this really? right now drk devs are slaving away developing features like first crypto you can spend without having to go and make a cup of tea while you wait. while no less than 5 of your devs have been on this thread making multiple accusations against drk. how much of the monero story is hype and how much is being delivered? we have totally opposite opinions on this obviously. 3. Sure, the usual opinion. but just saying drk is insecure and weak doesn't make it so, so maybe the market is smarter than you think, each to his own anyway 1. Doesn't matter how it looked at the time (or how you want it to have looked), many coins are/were using fast/insta mine techniques to raise money followed by pump and dumps to reach maximum btc accumulation--your coin looks like this to me. Thankfully i can use my own good judgement and avoid things that look and smell scammy. Also, your dev said it was an accident, so are you saying it is not? And furthermore, I don't want to own or be part of an instamine--I don't know if you're projecting greed onto me, but you really do need to know how bad statements like this sound. 2. I don't know that your devs are slaving away--they should be finding a way out of centralized masternodes and other privacy flawed strategies--but more to the point of your comparison, not one of your devs has ever offered a valid critique of Monero's privacy features, and thankfully Monero's devs will point out flaws within another coin. This is how antifragile should work, so instead of complaining, you should be thanking them for taking the time to point out flaws, that if fixed, would improve your coin. 3. This: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=3 |
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I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:
1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.
I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.
Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?" Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting. 1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS".... 2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons. No one buys the 'sudden shock ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out. DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time. It's a bit much. Investors aren't that stupid either. 3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue. Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when. Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions. Investors will take all this in context. They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges. 1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning signs like this. 2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk. 3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs. |
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I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:
1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.
I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.
Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?" |
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The Battle Hymn of March
With a dash in the dark they say, "No!
How could it be that we're decieved!
They must be lying for show--we know
Our motives are pure! Our hearts relieved!"
But here is where emotion ignores fact
If greed's your code, your code is cracked.
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(context above, no need to quote on every single post). No actually that is when you called P3RS3US AKA child_harold a dumb shit. Here is when you called me a dumb shit. I was just quoting our lead dev rynomster. So you basically called him a dumb shit too:
I don't care who it is. Anyone who says that "tokens" in SDC are anything more than just outputs is either dumb or lying, as shown by the above excerpt from the SDC whitepaper. Amusingly the response I got on the other thread for pointing that out was to be accused of faking the whitepaper LOL. Well I think you misunderstood what I said smooth. What I was simply trying to say was what ryno said. That they chose anonymous tokens instead of "direct anonymous outputs to ring sigs" because they are building towards a certain direction. I accidentally left out the words "to ring sigs", when I mentioned it, which probably confused you. Except that the above quoted phrase "outputs on the ShadowCash chain" is exactly "direct anonymous outputs to ring sigs" (ShadowCash chain outputs are spent using ring sigs). It's a bunch of double talk imo. Well I wanted to leave But I'm a bit confused as to what you are getting at to be honest. Ryno was not saying that Shadow>Shadow transfers are not direct anonymous outputs to ring sigs. Of course they are. They are basically the same as Monero from my understanding. What I believe he meant was that instead of having ONLY Shadow>Shadow transfers like Monero, they introduced a 2-way pegged token. Then he explained the reason why they used a token instead of direct anonymous outputs to ring sigs like Monero. He said its because of the direction they are striving and building towards. I could be wrong, but that was just my understanding of it. Hope this helps clear it up. I admire your due diligence, Pline, but ask yourself, "Why am I not on the SDC thread asking these same questions?" I asked a bunch a noob questions on the Monero thread and always got honest answers with the necessary links to do my own groundwork. That's why i trust this coin more than any other--though i'm sure the thread was (and still is) dragged down a bit by my steep learning curve.  |
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