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3841  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Recent events should make you withdraw all your coins to your own wallet: Part 2 on: July 19, 2022, 11:08:07 AM
It's probably worth pointing out that every one of the centralized exchanges and lending platforms which has gone bankrupt over the last few weeks has said some variation of "your funds are safe" in the days leading up to halting all withdrawals. Of course they are going to say that - they want to minimize any panic and any bank runs which would accelerate their demise. It's probably also worth pointing out that Coinbase lie, like, a lot. "We don't insider trade." "We don't sell your data." Lol.

Rather than basing your investment decision from a tweet, maybe look at the actual legal filings which show Coinbase making huge losses and the fact that all users are considered "unsecured creditors" (which means in the event of bankruptcy, you are absolutely last on the list to get back anything at all, as all the people who have lost all their money on Celsius and Voyager are currently finding out).

I don't think we should rule out the possibility of bankruptcy even though Coinbase seems too big to fail as DdmrDdmr says.
Mt Gox was too big to fail. Lehman Brothers was too big to fail. Coinbase is just another exchange.

For what it's worth, I think Coinbase probably aren't going bankrupt any time soon, but the fact remains that you should absolutely not be storing your money with them or with any other centralized exchange.
3842  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Wasabi blacklisting update - open letter / 24 questions discussion thread on: July 19, 2022, 10:59:50 AM
All this operation appears to be decoy tactics, while in background they needed to buy some time while moving from Gibraltar to Seychelles.
Any source for this?

Their legal documents for Version 2 already state that zkSNACKs is based in Seychelles and has done for over a month already. If they are already based there, and the whole point of their move was to avoid blacklisting, then why are they still talking about blacklisting and not reversing their position?

That wouldn't make any sense: they could have quietly moved from one tax haven to an even bigger tax paradise without supporting and encouraging the foolish concept of tainted Bitcoins.
Completely agree with this. They are not blacklisting yet, but are still operating, meaning there is no legal requirement forcing them to blacklist or be shutdown. So there is nothing stopping them from continuing to operate without blacklisting while they move jurisdictions.

And even if this were the case, then the honest thing to do would still be to direct people to other coordinators while they spin up a different coordinator in a different jurisdiction, rather than supporting this taint nonsense.
3843  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are you bothered about what happens to your Bitcoin when you are no more? on: July 18, 2022, 07:05:34 PM
How about cases of funds mismanagement or situation where a member of my family wants me dead just to have full custody of the coin.
If a family member is willing to murder you to steal your coins, then they are definitely also willing to murder you plus one other person to steal your multi-sig coins. Or simply hit you with a wrench until you crack and reveal the location of your other back ups, or phone up your other family members and have them hand over their shares, or unlock the multiple devices/wallets you have to spend your multi-sig coins, etc.

Multi-sig or no multi-sig, either you hand over your coins or you die. The only protection against physical attacks on your person is plausible deniability.

By creating a multi-sig wallet and handing out shares, you are advertising the very existence of that wallet. If you are this concerned about physical attacks, then you need a hidden wallet that nobody knows about, probably created by utilizing a passphrase on top of an existing wallet's seed phrase.
3844  Economy / Economics / Re: Your coins on CEX may be at risk this bear season on: July 18, 2022, 06:58:31 PM
If you are not a criminal, give your ID, the number will be checked, and if you are clean then they would probably not even check how much money you have.
You need to have a read about all the revelations from Snowden and others about the mass surveillance programs that pretty much every government in the world are undertaking, and the fact that most of these governments are sharing this data with each other. Not to mention the exchange itself will be collecting all your data, selling it to data brokers, who will then combine that with all the other data they have on you from a myriad of sources, and then sell all that on to literally anyone who wants to pay for it. It doesn't matter if you are a criminal or not - there is no evidence that mass surveillance prevents crimes. It is about control.

But still, none of that changes my original point: It does not matter in the slightest as to how well regulated or otherwise an exchange is. Any coins you deposit to it are no longer yours and are at constant risk of loss.
3845  Economy / Reputation / Re: Green trusted user vouching for shady site on: July 18, 2022, 02:10:46 PM
I understand market I'm in, 20 BTC is limit per mix not whole balance of the mixer
Ok. So roughly how much BTC do you have to support the operation of your mixer? Can you sign a message from an address holding some part of those funds?

Perhaps you could also explain why your Terms of Service and Privacy Policy are plagiarized word for word from /en/terms/]https://[banned mixer]/en/terms/?
And perhaps you could also explain why your letters of guarantee all return a bad signature from Jambler's public key?
3846  Economy / Reputation / Re: Green trusted user vouching for shady site on: July 18, 2022, 01:01:26 PM
It's you lie, I don't reject that we first have written unlimited amount of BTC because 20 BTC to mix is close to unlimited... I'm not sure people mix more per single mix
It sounds like you don't understand the market you are in.

Here's a ChipMixer deposit of 1,000 BTC I am aware of simply because we were discussing it an another thread: https://mempool.space/tx/1e7c498469369e90dfdd0c8258c6aa5325661553f441a2c6897d93b210f8ef67. There are plenty more such examples.

Further, a balance of 20 BTC does not let you mix anywhere close to 20 BTC. Since we know now that you supposedly have a balance of 20 BTC, if someone were to deposit say 5 BTC to your mixer, then there is a significant chance that their withdrawal would be easily linked to their deposit due simply to matching the size of the inputs and outputs. I would not even be comfortable mixing 1 BTC on a mixer with only 20 BTC being mixed, which is hardly "unlimited".
3847  Economy / Services / Re: Pretty Addy Giveaway - part 2 on: July 18, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Here you go:

PubAddress: 15starM7dZoz3bzD4utKJ6RRxXGv2mCRXq
PartialPriv: 5K9effT7wMAjcDRcLfsp9XX2QwStGUudKMU3G3skmHkNLD3qB3x

PubAddress: 1FiveSt1NBDYRd9Ce4LBceHCnjSXza4H9x
PartialPriv: 5JeHJcfpqPWeMCB3JUrEgdyr7ch4JAvYwoRHcu5Ef7XrBu9zGty




I believe that every time I've tried this, it hasn't worked for whatever reason without requiring the user to download VanitySearch themselves to reassemble the key.
So, I've just been poking about with this interaction between VanitySearch and bitaddress and discovered a few things.

Firstly, it works sometimes, but not other times. My initial thought was that since both pieces of software say they are adding the private keys together to reach the final private key, that it has something to do with how they deal with resulting private keys which are beyond the upper limit of the curve order. I thought that if the resulting private key is below the upper limit then they both return the same private key, but if it is above the upper limit then something is different with how they wrapping it back around and so you end up with different private keys and addresses. Both VanitySearch and bitaddress say they are simply adding the keys together modulo n, however, so this doesn't appear to the case. *shrug*

Secondly, it is not unique to segwit addresses, and the same behavior can be seen with legacy address.

However, you can still make it work by just generating a bunch of addresses with the relevant prefix and then testing them yourself in bitaddress one by one using the two public keys rather than the two private keys. You will eventually find one that works.
3848  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Is it good? Create different wallet types and addresses by same seed on: July 18, 2022, 10:27:46 AM
Something like m/44'/0'/643697879697'/365869767365/764668486/... will do the trick
Pedantic nit-pick, but that derivation path is invalid because the indices at levels 3 and 4 are beyond the valid range (0 - 231 for either hardened or unhardened).

But otherwise I agree. Relying on the luck of someone not generating a specific address type (especially when some software such as Core automatically generates all address types when you import a private key), or making up your own wild derivation path which will be difficult to back up accurately and easy to make a mistake with, are both poor ideas. If you want to hide coins on the same seed phrase, then use one or more complex passphrases, and back these up separately to the seed phrase.
3849  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Electrum Help on: July 18, 2022, 10:12:04 AM
Does anyone know what this error message means precisely and why we get it when there is no connection to the network?
You can see the code for the best_effort_reliable function which generates this error here: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/ed65f335bd44c3430581c47e78db0a041540aa5c/electrum/network.py#L845. Essentially it tries multiple times to make a request, and then fails if it is unable to do so.

There has been an issue raised about the vagueness of this error message, but it generated no discussion and has not been actioned: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/5815. There are more reasons it can fail other than just "not connected" though.
3850  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Wasabi blacklisting update - open letter / 24 questions discussion thread on: July 18, 2022, 09:39:16 AM
but essentially you are merely swapping your transaction history with other users like in the case of CoinSwap.
Which is completely fine for my use case. I don't use, and will never use, any company or service which attacks bitcoin by enforcing taint nonsense, so I have absolutely no care about the history of the coins I receive. All I care about is that it is not my history and cannot be used to link my previous transactions to my future ones.

At least, those users promoting Wasabi Wallet will know for sure that they are getting paid with clean, carefully filtered coins that will never be blocked by regulated entities. sarcasm
How funny when Wasabi's blockchain analysis partner changes their rules and suddenly Wasabi's team's own coins are no longer allowed.

After all, you're not sending an obfuscated Monero transaction, but a regular one that has a bunch of dummy inputs baked in. Authorities that know the source and destination exchange should not have any trouble following the link from source to destination (and hence find your new BTC coins).
If you send Monero directly from one centralized service to another centralized service, then sure, but if you send Monero to your own wallet and then to someone else in a peer-to-peer trade, then this kind of tracking becomes impossible.

What if the bitcoins are considered free of taint by some institutions and centralized exchanges based on the info they are given by one anal company, but at the same time a different anal company considers some of those coins as dirty and send out different signals to their partners? Unless all blockchain analysis companies cooperate in terms of what is tainted and what isn't, I would expect that they show different results and taint scores.
This is exactly what happens. See my post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5395035.msg59905002#msg59905002. 25% of coins in Binance's hot wallet were blacklisted.
3851  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Recent events should make you withdraw all your coins to your own wallet: Part 2 on: July 18, 2022, 08:48:39 AM
Celsius may or may not have known the purpose of the loan, but it seems that if they did know the purpose, they had very lax standards.
That's a good point - I'm not sure what's worse. That they handed out loans without any idea what they were going to be used for, or they handed out loans knowing they were going to be used to gamble on pictures of apes with funny hats.

They made that statement in 2019, and it is possible that their business model had subsequently changed.
Ok, here's the same statement which was last edited just a few months ago and is still being displayed on their website: https://support.celsius.network/hc/en-us/articles/360002174718-Does-Celsius-have-an-insurance-policy-
3852  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Two person having the same seed phrase on: July 18, 2022, 08:15:16 AM
It means you wont be able to generate all addresses and/or private keys with a 12 word seed
Yes, you can. It is almost certain that any seed phrase could be used to generate every private key which could possibly exist. Allow me to explain.

BIP32 allows 1 byte for extended keys to specify their depth. This means 256 possible values. 0x00 is for the master key, leaving 255 levels for child keys. This means that a derivation path can have at most 255 levels beyond m/. It also allows 232 possible indices per level; 231 hardened and 231 unhardened. This means that any seed phrase can generate (232)255 possible child private keys. This number works out to 2.5*102456. This number is obviously many many orders of magnitude larger than the set of all possible private keys, so while it is impossible to prove, it is almost certain that any seed phrase can be used to generate any private key, if you can just find the right derivation path (which is, of course, impossible).

and the entropy of your keys and adresses will be reduced from the full capacity of Bitcoin.
It won't. Although bitcoin private keys are 256 bits in length, they provide 128 bits of security, since the most effective attack against them is not random brute force but to reverse the ECDLP, which would require (on average) 2128 operations. This standard is intrinsic to the secp256k1 curve which bitcoin uses, so no matter how many bits of entropy in your seed phrase, your private keys will never provide more than 128 bits of security.

You can see this in Standards for Efficient Cryptography. SEC 2: Recommended Elliptic Curve Domain Parameters. (Table at the bottom of page 4.)
3853  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: [Review] Robosats Bitcoin Lightning on-/off-ramp (no KYC, P2P, Tor) on: July 17, 2022, 06:56:57 PM
You are going to get your addresses and transactions scaned by some blockchain analytics company even if you don't use any third party tools and wallets.
There is a huge difference between blockchain analysis firms blanket surveilling every address and transaction which exists, trying to gain whatever information they can from it, and your own wallet actively paying a blockchain analysis firm to spend extra resources to look specifically at your addresses and your coins and asking them to obtain very specific information about the so called "risk" your coins pose. I would liken it to the difference between Google trying to passively track everything everyone does online, and actively using Google search while logged in to a Google account, knowing they will be tracking you very closely and very specifically.

Given that we have access to a perfectly good (or even better) coinjoin implementation which doesn't do this, I see no reason whatsoever to ever use Wasabi.
3854  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: AML - Anti Money Laundering on: July 17, 2022, 06:51:15 PM
It's sad, they are policing crypto users and for them using mixer means you are whitelisting your black coins. Privacy does not matter for them.
Any platform, service, exchange, or wallet, which implements blacklists and does not accept particular coins is actively undermining the core principles of bitcoin and should be avoided.

Problem with P2P platforms are they cost a lot of fees when you are going to with any non-KYC site.
On the contrary: A non-KYC peer to peer trade such as via Bisq or LocalCryptos often has far lower fees than the same trade on a centralized exchange, once you factor in the centralized exchange's trading fee and withdrawal fee.
3855  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Martingale Betting Strategy on BlackJack, how effective it is? on: July 17, 2022, 03:14:02 PM
a good example is if we roll the dice in roulette 100 times based on the law of probability it is impossible to fall 100 times red or 100 times black on a physical casino
No it isn't. It is unlikely, yes, but it isn't impossible by any means.

so out of 100 bets we should be able to win one in order to get back all the money plus the initial small bet winnings.
If you double your bet every time you lose you do with Martingale, even if your first bet was only a single satoshi, then you can only make 50 losing bets before you breach the 21 million coin limit of all the bitcoin in existence. And even if you win a bet, your maximum winnings is still only ever going to be a single satoshi.

Martingale only makes sense if you have infinite money. Since nobody does, you will lose everything if you run it for long enough.
3856  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Two person having the same seed phrase on: July 17, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
If about two thousand people create a wallet the same day what they have is different Seed phrase and if these process continues everyday it comes out with the same result.  My question is what if cryptocurrency continues to exist in the next 100 years is it possible for anyone who create a wallet to continue have a different Seed phrase?
Let's bump those numbers up! Instead of two thousand people, let's use every one of the ~8 billion people on the planet. And instead of creating a wallet a day, why don't they each create a wallet every second. And instead of doing that for 100 years, why not let them do it for a million years? After all that time, they will have used 0.00000000000007% of all possible 12 word seed phrases.

So yeah. Never going to happen.

I suggest you watch the following video, which explains in very layman's terms the possibility of two people generating the same seed.
I mean, the video does give an explanation why there will never be a seed collision, but it is filled with inaccuracies.

The number isn't 204824; it is 2256. He seems unaware of the checksum.
When he holds up the piece of paper with the number 204824 expanded out, he has 7 too many zeroes and actually shows the number 2.96*1086. This seems to step from his misunderstanding that "e+79" means "add 79 more zeroes", which is not what it means at all.
There is an English word for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers
The number of atoms in the universe is estimated at 1080. So even his incorrectly large number is still smaller than this. The real number is smaller than this by 3 orders of magnitude.
3857  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Recent events should make you withdraw all your coins to your own wallet: Part 2 on: July 17, 2022, 02:06:06 PM
And those couple of minutes probably spent to read Celcius website/social media and any page about Celcius from Google search result. I can understand why user complain since their ToS and advertisement (which use word such as "Unbank", "no lockup" "HODL") is quite different.
Doesn't absolve people of the responsibility to do a basic amount of research in to where they are sending their money. Every service or product in existence advertises themselves positively, as does every scam in existence.

Banks make unsecured loans all the time without issue
Based on thorough risk assessments, credit scores, income analysis, and so on. It seems very much like Celsius were handing out loans to any large entity which wanted one without really any due diligence on how that loan was to be repaid or what it was to be used for.

There are a few forum members who have made a business out of lending, sometimes without collateral. I am sure that some of these loans have gone bad, but I believe their business is overall profitable, net of losses.
Yes, but these users have very strict limits as to what they will lend without collateral. They certainly aren't risking amounts sufficient to put them out of business should their customer default.

My issue is not with Celsius making unsecured loans
Mine is. While they claimed all loans were collateralized by at least 150%, we know now that this was not the case.
3858  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Trezor T + SD card on: July 17, 2022, 12:02:33 PM
Besides, why not just extend your seed with a complex passphrase and not use the SD cards at all?
I don't think this will solve the problem, the philosophy of SD card is to protect against physical attacks of the device.
If someone with the equipment and expertise required was able to physically attack your Trezor, then they are "only" able to extract your seed phrase and access your base wallet, or unlock with your PIN and access your base wallet. Any passphrase protected wallets would remain both hidden and protected by the passphrase (which should obviously be long and complex enough to be resistant to brute force attacks).

For example, if someone managed to find your device and knew PIN code, then you lost your money, here comes SD card role as a second password.
Again, only your base wallet, not any passphrased wallets.

But, you can quite happily use both the SD card and one or more passphrases, so no need to choose one or the other.
3859  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Martingale Betting Strategy on BlackJack, how effective it is? on: July 17, 2022, 11:52:05 AM
I was kinda hesitant to believe it until I realized that BlackJack isn't a game of chance
If you play blackjack with a perfect strategy, then you can reduce the house edge to a minimum, which will depend on the exact rule set of the table you are playing at. It is still very much a game of chance though, the house will always have an edge, and no amount of skill or strategy will remove the house edge (unless you are able to card count, which is obviously impossible online or with a continuous shuffler as many casinos now use).

Quote
Eventually, after progressively making higher wagers, you are more likely to win, leaving you with a much higher payout than if you had bet a consistent amount.
This sentence is absolutely nonsense. You are no more likely to win after a streak of losses than you are to win on any other hand. This is the classic gambler's fallacy. And you never get a "much higher payout" on Martingale. All you ever get is break even plus your original bet, which in this example, will be $5. Doesn't matter if after 10 losing hands you are now betting $5,120 and you win $10,240. If you add up all your bets prior to that win they come out at $10,235, meaning you've just risked $10k to win 5 bucks. Roll Eyes

Is it effective for this type of game?
It's not effective for any type of game, but if you are going to use it, then all that matters is finding the game with the smallest house edge. Blackjack played perfectly might well be that game.
3860  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Recent events should make you withdraw all your coins to your own wallet: Part 2 on: July 17, 2022, 11:36:25 AM
Do you really think people read ToS?
No, obviously not, but to complain that Celsius did with your coins exactly what they said they were going to do with your coins is just downright stupid. Nobody reads the Terms of Service for buying a video game online, sure, but you would expect if you are going to be depositing several bitcoin (or an equivalent amount of value in fiat/altcoins) to any platform then you might spend a couple of minutes reading about that platform.


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