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3841  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 11:44:34 PM
Mike Wasaki Class of 2012 (high School)
Quote
"Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics. You are all stardust.  You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded. Because the elements, the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution weren't created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars. And the only way they could get into your body is if the stars were kind enough to explode. So forget Jesus. The stars died so you could be here today"

He aint a movie star but in 12 century france he is a heretic and would be about to get closer to god via one of his fiery furnace's started by the villager's

Funny thing is that that is one of the more credible and insightful things I've seen from a BFL employee to date.



Agreed ...he actually said the word Physics and understands the creation of matter therom

Having said that the guy is still 18 years old...and i am sure he uses this to try and pick up chicks... Cheesy



  
Actually the prevailing theory is that matter came into existence before the stars. Far more complex combinations of matter came from the furnace of stars  (afterwards).

Hopefully he isn't a slacker with ASIC designs as much as physics?
3842  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 11:41:01 PM
I'm just lazy. Too much work to narrow down the list to just engineers. I found so many people that work there. Machinists, painters, inspectors, supervisors, welders, cnc operators, etc.

Tim Bishop, Engineer, http://www.facebook.com/tim.bishop.3914
Rossford Fayen, Engineer, http://www.facebook.com/rossford.fayen


Seeee, that wasn't so hard now was it Wink

Now, let's apply these same strategies for Butterfly Labs!
Sonny Vleisides, https://www.facebook.com/sonny.vleisides
Josh Zerlan, https://www.facebook.com/josh.zerlan
Syko Ramirez, https://www.facebook.com/sykoo.ramirez
Mike Wazowski, https://www.facebook.com/mike.b.wazowski.3


EDIT: Why are we arguing again? This thread gets derailed seemingly every other page haha

Hahah and which one of these are engineers with solid careers who have too much to lose by participating in a scam? Let me guess, it's "Syko G", the hispanic ghetto homegirl who looks like she is 20 years old max?

Or perhaps it's Mike Wazowski, who: "Went to RHS [Rosewood High School] for the most part.... Looken to meet up with old friends from school....if i add you its for a reason cause i know you or have seen you around RHS before"

So, which one of these two kids have too much to lose by participating in a scam? Are either of them even engineers?

This is fucking pathetic man you can do better than that. Where are the ENGINEERS with CAREERS BEHIND THEM?



 Cheesy  Mike Wazowski   Cheesy    Insn't he a movie star   Huh Huh Cheesy


Oh SHIT! They figured it out!? Run!
3843  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 11:39:54 PM

Thats exactly how I (on the left) feel when Inaba (on the right) starts blasting insults at everyone.
3844  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 11:36:13 PM
I'm just lazy. Too much work to narrow down the list to just engineers. I found so many people that work there. Machinists, painters, inspectors, supervisors, welders, cnc operators, etc.

Tim Bishop, Engineer, http://www.facebook.com/tim.bishop.3914
Rossford Fayen, Engineer, http://www.facebook.com/rossford.fayen


Seeee, that wasn't so hard now was it Wink

Now, let's apply these same strategies for Butterfly Labs!
Sonny Vleisides, https://www.facebook.com/sonny.vleisides
Josh Zerlan, https://www.facebook.com/josh.zerlan
Syko Ramirez, https://www.facebook.com/sykoo.ramirez
Mike Wazowski, https://www.facebook.com/mike.b.wazowski.3


EDIT: Why are we arguing again? This thread gets derailed seemingly every other page haha

Hahah and which one of these are engineers with solid careers who have too much to lose by participating in a scam? Let me guess, it's "Syko G", the hispanic ghetto homegirl who looks like she is 20 years old max?

Or perhaps it's Mike Wazowski, who: "Went to RHS [Rosewood High School] for the most part.... Looken to meet up with old friends from school....if i add you its for a reason cause i know you or have seen you around RHS before"

So, which one of these two kids have too much to lose by participating in a scam? Are either of them even engineers?

This is fucking pathetic man you can do better than that. Where are the ENGINEERS with CAREERS BEHIND THEM?

So i think it is pretty obvious now that there are NO Engineers or work being done by BFL

1)They have outsourced the lot
2) Their key role is purely Sales
3) Maybe some assembly but thats it!

They are middlemen. This is why they have no answers because they know nothing..

They are telling storys based upon the marketing hype they put out to capture sales.they have known these timelines all along.

No big deal..it is what it is & a lot of others have done the same

I believe you to be correct.
3845  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 01:53:24 AM
I was of the understanding that the business Sonny participated in was about taking bets on upcoming lottery numbers. Is that wrong? Where can I read the correct information if so?

Basically it was an advance fee fraud where he sent people letters saying they had won a foreign lottery, but they needed to pay an admin fee to have the money released. He deliberately targeted the elderly, believing them to be more vulnerable.

He came on the forums and claimed to be basically running a numbers racket (i.e. an illegal lottery) and claimed that it was perfectly reasonable to run an unregulated, unsupervised lottery and it was just those god damned government regulations that stopped him from making an honest buck by doing so. That would be bad enough but what he was doing was even worse.

He then posted a picture of him with his girlfriend and his new born baby, as if to say "look at me with this little baby, how could I be a bad guy?"

It was one of the most pathetic and insidious things I have ever seen.

This guy is not just "an employee". He is the founder and CEO of the company
Got a link to the pic or thread?

Sounds kind of hard to believe that this guy would try a PR attempt like that.
3846  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 01:47:39 AM
Also, people change...

Did any of you READ Sonny's write up about what happened?

I'm guessing no.


Yes, sounded like he maintained that he has always been a nice guy, had nothing to apologize for, and in fact was a victim of an evil government. People change, right.  A BFL engineer/executive Nasser then also chimed in, denying that Sony was a scammer, and in fact defending his past. Not even a tiny sign of remorse about the documented, well planned scam carried out by Sony. Inaba responded by derailing threads, offending concerned customers, etc. It is hard for me to believe that anyone would take BFL seriously or treat them with respect, not to mention giving them money for some future product.
Sounds like a culture of coverups (IMO only)
3847  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 16, 2013, 01:40:45 AM
Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?

Because he a) isn't running the show, and b) isn't the only person working at BFL.
People seem to consistently forget that in order to pull off a scam of this magnitude, they'd need to support of all participating members...managers, execs, designers, engineers, etc.

Believe it or not, most people are not sociopaths.
I guess you have never heard of a manager robbing their own company blind.

I have seen several cases of that in real life. Where a manager comes in with access to the safe and his GF. Then pulls cash from the sack and walks out quiet assuming no one is watching him. Then buying very expensive things and doctoring the books to reflect the change to the companies finances.

The only way they ever seem to be caught is by the owner(s) asking why they are so unprofitable. Managers are usually the scumiest bastards you will ever encounter in life. They didn't get to being a manager by accident. Most managers hire managers who think and act like themselves (IMO).

They don't hire honest people because honesty is not what they know. So when I see polls that say only 10% of managers are lowlifes....I have to laugh.
3848  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Mine or Sell? on: January 15, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
It would be like selling gold...that makes more gold.

You would probably make quite a bit.

--------------

What is on my mind right now are those people from bASIC who sold their orders before it [apparently] went defunct.

Are those resellers getting their money back? If not, are they giving the re-sold units cost back to the second hand buyer??
3849  Bitcoin / Hardware / Days left in your CC chargeback window? on: January 15, 2013, 05:50:50 PM
How many days do you have until you miss your chargeback window?

Some credit card companies have a window of 60 days, 90 days, 120 days and a few 2 years.

Whats your story?
Which Vendor did you go with?
How long until your safety net is gone? (How many days left in your chargeback window?)
3850  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 04:20:28 PM
I still want him to videotape a discussion with his lawyer for our enjoyment.
That would be awesome... Imagine something like this:http://youtu.be/NmFo-LKHGY0 (poof it's gone)
He clould use this to make a case: http://youtu.be/clKi92j6eLE (chewbaka defense)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-1pmmajr2Q
3851  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 03:21:59 PM
What is the connection between QFN / FCBGA and Clock Buffers?
I thought they had problems with Clock Buffers.
Shhh!!!!
3852  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 03:19:24 PM
Companies don't like to show off their failures, so they would (understandably) want to be light on details.
Not if they burn other peoples money!
Bingo!

That is why there is secrecy. Nothing being said right now is a secret to an engineer with experience.

Only the absolute dumbest people would believe that BS line.

[My joke of an imagination is written below:)
(BFL Engineer: OH SHIT!
Josh: What?
BFL Engineer: Our plastic covered ASIC just blew up with a puff of smoke!
Josh: Wait, what? Why did that happen?
BFL Engineer: Apparently plastic does not conduct as much heat as silicon?
Josh: No Shit sherlock. Ahh SHIT.... Now I have to go make some shit up and downplay this.
BFL Engineer: No wait, don't tell them anything. Our competition might find out about plastic not being a good choice we made when overclocking our chips from 40GH to 60GH. How could I possibly have known that? SHIT, do you think bASIC and Avalon and ASICMINER possibly know that?!
Josh: No man, they have too little experience in physics. I will just have to write up a delay, but I don't know what to say...
BFL Engineer: Well Shit, tell them something! Clock buffer! It was the Clock Buffer. (thats also bad...he whispers silently to himself)
Josh: What is a clock buffer?
BFL Engineer: Hold on let me get my text book. Here it is....etc.
Josh: Okay, don't worry about it, I will (re)spin this shit so we can ship in the next three months. They are too stupid to know that any retard knows this stuff. Our customers are the best!
BFL Engineer/Josh: Laugh about it over a cold bear next to a burnt and smokey ASIC.)
3853  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 03:09:35 PM
First they (BFL) stated they were perfectly ready to ship (or so they thought) in October 2012.

It's quite embarrassing for a company when they think they're ready to ship, but then realise that they have INSERT_MAJOR_ISSUE and INSERT_MINOR_ISSUE and have to delay. Companies don't like to show off their failures, so they would (understandably) want to be light on details.
Wow.

Translated: "Downplay absolutely everything. When customers ask, make a fake sounding release that is light on details and even gives the customer the wrong impression so you can keep working on it for the next 2.5 months."

This is said by a self described BFL apologist (Nathan). So the question comes to mind, why is he so accepting of this type of scenario?


If they have active competitors, they want to be very light on details so that their competitors can't learn from their mistakes.
Baloney.

There worry is more about their customers than the competition. Look Nathan, I know you like the koolaid but stop proverbially drinking what comes out of Joshs' jar at the BFL afterparty.

There was almost nothing been released by BFL that any normal engineer does not already know.

BFL is using a shitload of "spin" and you are gobbling it up big time. They _say_ they are worried about the competition, as of yet they have _not released_ anything that would be considered useful. They are absolutely playing up _a mind game_ and banking on the stupidity of some to believe it.

Even now, they are still holding on to secrets. So _that right there_ gives you a broad indication that they are bullshitting everyone on this forum. Josh has stated that they believe bASIC is gone and Avalon is committed (which means they cannot change anything nor use any of that information strategically.)

What they are doing is paying _lip service_ to the dumb who don't know jack. The guise is that we are releasing information now that the competition is committed...)oh but we aren't releasing stuff that they could actually use).

This is a staple of the gullible. (Not realizing this point!)



Therefore, any announcement you see will rarely be the full story; perhaps just INSERT_MINOR_ISSUE.

Apparent inconsistencies between announcements are likely in this situation.


OUch, the BFL apologist actually realizes there was an inconsistency. I see a crack in a facade. Josh, quickly apply crazy glue® before any more realizations break out....
3854  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 04:03:18 AM
Nancy drew, eh?

Well, if anyone has the time they can go and read Josh's answers to his Q&A and then go back into the forums past and reread/reskim all those positions BFL took as you travel back in time to October (2012). Then you can truly decide if there is a bit of revisionist history going on. (and to what extent with Hindsight)

Beyond that, you might even find contradictory statements.

First they (BFL) stated they were perfectly ready to ship (or so they thought) in October 2012. Yet the latest answers from Josh paint a very strange and surreal picture.  Admitting that they only received a small number of chips in October 2012 and finding problems. You should find it pretty strange that this would contradict their prior position that they had somehow been ready to start mass production with their chips.

Think about that.

As an example, I tell you I am ready to ship and fulfill all pre-orders in October 2012. Then in Mid-January I retell the same tale and say that we only received a small number of chips in October and found a problem. How do you explain that discrepancy? Weren't they supposed to be shipping in mass in October? Why didn't Josh say they received a large number of chips in October to fulfill their massive pre-orders? Is this a typo or a mistake?

Did you all know (by now) how long it takes to bake chips at the Fab? Do you all know that BFL has stated that they were using a technique which involved holding the chips half baked to test the quality of their design...and once sure...complete the other wafers or make adjustments. You do realize (I hope) that BFl was using a dense chip with many more layers (than their competitors) and that each layer takes about a day to deposit in the manufacturing process. (30+ Layers)

So ask yourself this question: If they only received a small batch of "test chips" that turned out to be overheating, then why did they make it seem like they were ready to fulfill pre-orders in October? Why make that promise if all you were expecting in the mail was a tiny batch to do tests on?

Hmm, I think someone needs to be careful about what accidentally slips out....Oops
3855  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 03:29:48 AM
OH it IS!!! bubbled!, I have some more faith in BFL!
Uh...you guys have some short term memory!
3856  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 03:21:49 AM
why aren't they showing us the god damn blown chip then ....:/
They did - it was in the first set of pictures they released showcasing the PCB.

Pictures:  http://bitcoinmagazine.com/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/


Someone please point it out for me, Those look like the same photos from awhile ago, I would assume that someone would've gone "LOOK!, ITS BROKEN!"


That is exactly what people did. Phinn has pinpointed it correctly.
Uh, if I recall correctly, Josh denied the chips were blown.

People thought the chips had been photoshopped at that time. Some thought (oddly) that the chips were actually black tape. Others speculated it was photoshopped to hide the chip writing. etc.

Josh (if I recall correctly) denied they were blown and then called people <insert names here>. Which then led to him and other BFL reps releasing extra images of the PCB with different chip configurations.

Ultimately, Josh admitted (strangely enough at the time) that they didn't have any prototypes that actually worked as intended. I believe this was caused by BitcoinINV in his pursuit of BFL through an Attorney General.

(This was the guy everyone hated who posted up two different images with blue paper. The first one was a complaint and the next was a response from BFL to the Attorney General showing their business address, a short summary of their current development status and the BFL address along with Jody's real name and title.)
3857  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 15, 2013, 02:53:08 AM
More details on the QFN packaging and reasons for delays:

Quote
We made the decision to go with QFN in December. I can't really talk about our development process itself, but we have gone through extensive design and testing phases... at one point in early December we decided to look at a worst case scenario if the chips were in a really hot environment (you can see the bubbled chip in one of the pictures, I think someone pointed it out.). We paid a company out of California quite a bit of money to run a run of simulations under different scenarios on our boards, as well as if we made changes to various portions of the PCB if we could salvage the QFN package's thermal envelope. We were able to get the thermal loads down about 6C off the current mark, but we were still within single digits of the max temperatures of surrounding components once the heat started to migrate through the ground plane. If someone in a really hot area ran these things, the fan would be on full blast the entire time, and as dust and other detritus collected on the HSF the unit would start to overheat and throttle (or worst case, you'd get bubbled chips). The internal junction temp of our ASICs, if I recall is around 121C, however the MCU and a couple other components are around 100C or less if memory serves and we were butting up against that in some cases, in the 90's.

I've already touched on some of the roadblocks we've had. One of the more annoying ones was the diffraction issue ... for example, at 65nm if you try to make a square shape on a wafer, you can't just make a square shape on the mask, you'll end up with an ellipsis of some sort due to the wavelength of light. So you have to shape the mask to accommodate the wavelength so what ends up on the wafer is a square, though it looks very different on the mask. So you have to go through just about everything, making sure what you want is actually what ends up on the wafer... the delay this caused was not anticipated to the extent it delayed us and since this is a full custom, hand routed chip, basically it had to be gone over by hand from top to bottom.

Another delay we've had to endure is the fact that we have effectively tied the ASIC teams payment to the success of the chip. If the chip were to be a failure they don't get paid... so they have incentive to get it right but that has made them very cautious and slow to approve final masks (This is why we can refund all pre-orders we want and why we have the capital to do what we need to do without a failure putting us in bankruptcy).

Ultimately, it has all boiled down to the incredible complexity of the chip (I mean, look at that beast, it's all black in the shot it's so dense). If the chip were not so complex and so efficient there wouldn't be a heat issue, there wouldn't be the wariness of releasing the mask, etc... This is why I find it patently ridiculous that Tom kept claiming his 90nm sASIC or PnR chip would be 100w, it's ludicrous. Avalons claims are far more reasonable at 400w for their design and is why I haven't given them such a hard time. I think Avalon is going to run into some problems that we've run into, but I don't think they will be anything insurmountable, but I suspect it will delay them a bit while they try to figure out how to mount all the heat sinks or the giant heatsink they are going to need to keep the thing cool, and the board itself has to be massive. Tom was estimating 7 x 9" if I recall for his 16 chip 90nm process... the Avalon is 110nm with at least 80 chips I estimate... though I'm sure the chip footprint is much smaller, we're still talking about a bucket load of chips that all have to be cooled. If their package, and I think they are using QFN, is not letting enough heat out the top they are going to flood their thermal and ground planes with 300w+ of heat and cook everything in sight. We were fighting 60w of heat (granted, on a much smaller surface area) and it was a problem, I can't imagine trying to fight 300w of heat. For their sakes, I hope they have already considered these issues or it's going to be a nasty surprise the first time they turn a unit on and the chips start popping and letting the magic smoke out.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-6.html

Wasn't the picture of the bubbled chip posted in late-ish October? Did you blow it up in October than then have the simulations done in December, and then decided to switch away from QFN?
It sounds like that's about how it went, yeah.  They got the QFN prototypes, figured out they couldn't cool them properly as they thought they could, did some "worst case scenario" self testing, bubbled a chip, decided to have an outside company do some similar testing in December, and then concluded they couldn't properly cool a QFN chip in a heated environment.

That 121 is way too close to the failure at 125.. Even Xilinx starts to shut its chips down at 85.Then there is the issue of exactly what was the ambient when the die was reading 121... if it was the normal test temp of 85 deg c. then fine there is room in the design
but if it was measured at 25 deg. c... then we are all fucked.. the product is going to last less than a year.

Originally, BFL_Josh said the ASIC devices were capable of running in ambient temperatures of 32F to 95F.

I take this to mean that at 95F the device will reach its thermal limit and pop. 95F is about 35C.
P.S. Avalons' device is tested to work up to 105F (ambient temperatures).
3858  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 14, 2013, 07:45:21 PM
Looking at the way things are now, I think anyone with reasonable intelligence could conclude that BFL is probably some kind of scam.

Of course the obvious exception are those with significant pre-orders, who are putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I'm not listening!" They can't afford for it to be a scam, so therefore it must not be one.

And of course anyone who points out the scam warning signs is abused.

It's Pirateat40 all over again, just a different type of scam. The CEO is a convicted fraudster for fucks sake, how dumb do you need to be?
A wise person has spoken (IMO).
3859  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 14, 2013, 07:31:37 PM
And you used a service to transfer BTC to $..... they received USD....
NO!!!
I did not use a service to transfer USD to BTC. BFL did use it! BitPay is doing currency conversion on behalf of BFL, not me! I don't have any contract with BitPay! BFL have! BFL have the FULL control what % of the BTC they want converted in USD!


You should contact BitPay and get them to clarify this for you in writing. If you aren't sure you should always ask first for an official statement.

And you used a service to transfer BTC to $..... they received USD....
NO!!!
I did not use a service to transfer USD to BTC. BFL did use it! BitPay is doing currency conversion on behalf of BFL, not me! I don't have any contract with BitPay! BFL have! BFL have the FULL control what % of the BTC they want converted in USD!



Argumentation for BFL Lawyer will be simple:

This Address is certainly not ours..... sue Bitpay for your BTC?


Come on, no one can be that stupid not to know this beforehand ordering.  On their website you can preorder your  "CASE WITH FANS AND BOLTS" and choose to pay with BTC. All values are denominated in USD $ not BTC. You will be redirected to bitpay (escrow) and they'll recieve your BTC (NOT BFL). Bitpay is then sending fixed USD $ to BFL.

You choose this service, you accept their Agreement of Terms (AGB Allgemeine Geschäfts Bedungungen in german)....

Maybe you could argue that you are not responsible for your decisions because of ....?

I would advise to get your money out fast. Even if you get less BTC then you paid (meaning conversion from USD value "now" to BTC "now"). You should be able to sue them later for the rest ..... 
If Bitpay does act like paypal and is a BTC account with [USD conversion] deposited into a registered account at the sole election of the merchant, then yes, people probably have a case.

If BitPay converts it directly without BFL approval or handling (as in transparent) then you are SOL. (Sorry Out of Luck)

Does anyone here have a BitPay account that they could use to shed light on this particular point?
3860  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: January 14, 2013, 07:21:16 PM
They're refunding anyone who asks...
No, they don't. They do not honor full BTC refunds.

If you mean that you paid 100btc 6 months ago and intend to receive 100btc today ... go astray, do not be a hustler.
No, I do not intend. I WANT! Because I've the right to receive the refund in the currency and amount I had originally paid!!!

BFL didn't ask me to pay US dollar, they asked me to pay BTC. I did what they ask me to do. I've send the EXACT amount BTC to the EXACT BTC address they specified.
Bingo, that is exactly my point. ASIC companies should treat Bitcoin as a legitimate currency.

I fully understand they have to pay other companies in USD or Yuan or Yen. But they should try to market Bitcoin in some way beyond the superficial aspects of money conversion.
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