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3841  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: 2014 USD/mBTC Price Prediction Contest on: October 03, 2014, 12:19:03 PM
Since the rules stipulate only the final scores, it feels permissible to me that the exact scores will be determined only after the contest has ended, according to the rules. Would this be OK for you?
I suppose so, though that does run the risk of someone being eliminated when they shouldn't have been or vice versa. I sense that when you started this contest you didn't quite understand how much effort would actually be required, is that right?

free bitcoins for everyone :p

seriously, I appreciate the effort of Risto. It's a lot of work to organize this.

That and the fact that so few people participated makes me feel this is the one and only time Risto will do this. Maybe if there is a next time make the time horizon shorter OR just make a prediction for very far out without additional predictions (such as only the first prediction in this contest).

Repeat - only problem is that I am now doing manual work that was never the idea. Yes, it's what all great leaders do when they fail in organizing something. No, reminding about it constantly is not fun.

Probably the mixed success of this one is not boding well for next year's contest. I will likely start a thread in December nevertheless.
3842  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: 2014 USD/mBTC Price Prediction Contest on: October 03, 2014, 11:44:14 AM
Amount of effort is not really bigger than anticipated. The thing that I personally do it is very much not what I wanted.  Undecided

But let's keep it going  Grin
3843  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: 2014 USD/mBTC Price Prediction Contest on: October 03, 2014, 08:04:20 AM
- 15 predictions outstanding (of whose orange numbers you want?)
What? No, I want orange numbers from the last four months of all predictions. Take the first row of the orange numbers from Round 1:

0.0099%   0.0122%   0.0141%   0.0158%   0.0173%   0.0187%   0.0474%   0.0503%

The highlighted numbers are now invalid, because they are based on predictions from players no longer in the game, as stated in the rules:
Actually, the points are not fully deterministic, because the initial formula supposes that all the entries are still in competition at the time of scoring. If eg. a 6-month long prediction by player A is included in the averages upon submission, but player A is disqualified from competition before the maturity of the prediction, that prediction does not take part in the counting of the final averages for the scoring, which (slightly) alters the average and, therefore, the scores of other entrants.
Likewise for every round of predictions.

Actually, on closer inspection, it looks like you didn't take this into account in determining the scores for this round. Or are we retroactively changing the rules to make your work easier? Undecided

I made the adjustment to the "new rounds" (so that the disqualified players do not disturb the scores of rounds started after their disqualification).

I see your point in that it would be nicer to you to have all previous and future scores recalculated once someone drops from the game. We are not changing the rules to cement the scores, but I also don't feel like recalculating them every time. Since the rules stipulate only the final scores, it feels permissible to me that the exact scores will be determined only after the contest has ended, according to the rules. Would this be OK for you?
3844  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: 2014 USD/mBTC Price Prediction Contest on: October 03, 2014, 07:05:32 AM
When I said I wanted orange numbers, I meant all the orange numbers. Angry We need the orange numbers for the last four months of all the previous rounds, since contestants dropping out means their original predictions no longer count.

We have now 6 entries in the game.
- 15 months that are evaluated.
- 15 predictions outstanding (of whose orange numbers you want?)
- 6 predictions yet to come, 3 of which the deadline is today
3845  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Monero Economy Workgroup - The MEW Thread on: October 02, 2014, 11:14:01 PM
Additional selfish question (partly kidding): is it then reported in the hall of fame?
Will be, as MEW (not as individual donators).

Funny enough, we had a longish discussion about it. Since I am the creator of both some important parts of the MEW and the Community Hall of Fame, I can decide that the MEW votelist ranks higher in precedence. It is a sign of an ongoing commitment, not only of one-time donation.

Speaking 100% out of personal opinion here, but I found the quirkiness of the MHoF to be more compelling than a relatively dry/official votelist.

I'd suggest merging the two somehow.

They both have almost identical levels (well the votelist has base metals instead of "wad of green toiletpaper" Smiley ) Perhaps David can copy some of the design elements to the official votelist to make it look less official...
3846  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Cryptocurrency with the best distribution? on: October 02, 2014, 11:11:20 PM
You are all children, or at least not monetary economists  Tongue

The issue is not a fantasy about everybody having as many "credits". That existed long before I learned to read. The issue is to build a monetary system whose currency gains so much value in the market spontaneously (as Bitcoin has done) that a part of the value creation can be used to further boost its adoption (as Bitcoin has not done due to the lack of mechanism for such).
3847  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread on: October 02, 2014, 11:05:58 PM
How much monero do mew members have to have?

10 XMR is the minimum fee. This nominally corresponds to 1000 XMR holdings, although you can be much smaller or bigger if you like.
3848  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread on: October 02, 2014, 11:04:04 PM
Any idea what % of coin owners MEW is?  I'd like to be involved - if at least to observe so I suppose I'll join.  Not much of a good ole boys club participant but I'd like to know sooner rather than later the direction the coin decides to take.

It has 6,200 votes, so nominally 620,000 coins (about 20%).

Personally I believe people have on average "underbought" votes to save money and disguise their total holding. The MEW membership's share of the current emission is likely 30-40%.
3849  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Monero Economy Workgroup - The MEW Thread on: October 02, 2014, 10:56:31 PM
Additional selfish question (partly kidding): is it then reported in the hall of fame?
Will be, as MEW (not as individual donators).

Funny enough, we had a longish discussion about it. Since I am the creator of both some important parts of the MEW and the Community Hall of Fame, I can decide that the MEW votelist ranks higher in precedence. It is a sign of an ongoing commitment, not only of one-time donation.
3850  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread on: October 02, 2014, 10:29:21 PM

Just willing to restate my points:
- No, I am not advocating changing the total number of coins;
- No, I am not advocating higher inflation;
- Yes, I am advocating that inflation is more evenly spread over time;
- Reason I do this is that fully mined coins have a hard time finding buyers if there are growing coins also available (don't be confused with pumps - that's something that cannot happen with XMR anyway anymore).

Reading my posts in this short thread might be enjoyable and insightful.



How in the world could we ever get enough people on the same page to promote any change to coin release schedule or total emission? 

MEW is the place where it will be discussed. So that we can make sure if the coin owners actually prefer this or that.

The ones who do not believe in the viability of one of the choices, are likely selling their coins anyway. So it's better that a good project continues with the majority (instead of the minority), which also makes us hopeful that a great number (instead of a small number) of new ones will join, leading to increased (instead of decreased) adoption, compared to current situation.

Which side is the majority, I don't yet know. I - as well as many hopefully - has not locked in his own opinion yet.
3851  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: October 02, 2014, 10:24:58 PM
Unless we make a significant new low (below $266 would qualify), we have just made a multi-month double bottom, an incredibly bullish signal, way more bullish than the 1-month double bottom at $2 in 2011.

QFI:
Quote
Unless we make a significant new low (below $266 would qualify), we have just made a multi-month double bottom, an incredibly bullish signal, way more bullish than the 1-month double bottom at $2 in 2011.
3852  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Monero Economy Workgroup - The MEW Thread on: October 02, 2014, 10:22:02 PM
Sorry if the info is somewhere in the thread, I didn't see it in the FAQ, and have no time to crawl through.
50% of the subscription fees goes to the devs to support development *immediately*, right?


Immediate answer: Yes.
3853  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread on: October 02, 2014, 10:21:07 PM

Just willing to restate my points:
- No, I am not advocating changing the total number of coins;
- No, I am not advocating higher inflation;
- Yes, I am advocating that inflation is more evenly spread over time;
- Reason I do this is that fully mined coins have a hard time finding buyers if there are growing coins also available (don't be confused with pumps - that's something that cannot happen with XMR anyway anymore).

Reading my posts in this short thread might be enjoyable and insightful.

3854  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread on: October 02, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
1st year is 39%, after 4 years it is 86%.

I would much rather see us at <50% for 3-4 years, because a fully mined coin when there is no meaningful adoption (10s of millions of users at least) is likely to be superseded by a fork of the same, which is perceived as "more legitimate" since it is "not premined".

I don't think inflation is "good" but I find it hard to retain legitimacy in the view of the future generations without it. Crypto is not gold. Gold cannot be forked, crypto can. And has. And will.
3855  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: October 02, 2014, 04:01:07 PM
Almost everyone I know has now been exposed to bitcoin (and not by me).  I even saw a reference to it in Parks & Recreation the other day.  Maybe we are entering the adoption phase & exiting the "speculation on adoption" phase?

Per user, Bitcoin's marketcap is about $5,000, which is not exactly a huge figure given that the median is probably <$1,000. It has about 1 million owners, unchanged from late 2013.

If adoption goes to 10 times what it is now, likely also average investment goes higher, leading to 10+ times price growth. Otherwise the math does not add up.

And since we are in a Monero thread, and Monero's marketcap just declined to less than 1/1000 of Bitcoin's, the same numbers apply, but there is (even) more room for growth.
3856  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XMR] Moderated Monero General Discussion Thread on: October 02, 2014, 03:16:20 PM
Without GUI, adoption will remain sluggish. With sluggish adoption, not only will price be pressured, but more importantly - and this is a coin killer - the emission will run its course to the point that XMR will considered to be a "community premine" despite all our good heroic efforts.

Since changing the emission also can be considered to be a premine of sorts, we are between a rock and a hard place with (yet) no solutions that would have the unanimous support of everybody.

I can also be wrong concerning the future perception of "community premine".
3857  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: October 02, 2014, 02:02:51 PM
The price crashed within 5 minutes of BCX threat on Poloniex trollbox, with very large volume. It seemed that at least one very large holder did cash out because of the threat.
You may call him "weak hand", but certainly he had enough to move the market.

I call him Santa Claus.

The threat was (likely intentionally) issued at a time when me and several other large holders were online in the trollbox. I don't know if the other holders sold, but if they did, it was likely in anticipation of a bigger drop (which never materialized, so they bought back at a loss).

What I do remember for certain is that most of the bid side was pulled instead of being sold into, resulting in <50 BTC of bids at the lowest point instead of the normal ~300 BTC and high of >600 BTC. It builded up in minutes after seeing the initial flashcrash to 0.00280.

By the way, contrary to what many think, the higher lows trend has not been violated daily vwap-wise. The last low from August was 0.00305 and lowest during this bottom is 0.00310.
3858  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: Un-techie decentralized ALT/BTC bulk exchange network on: October 02, 2014, 01:48:39 PM
Its certainly possible given a amount of someone's time however a number of hurdles need to be overcome, not least the fact that someone would be distributing a work in process .xlsm document that could be running god knows what code on their PC's. As I've just discovered open office isn't VBA friendly either so you'd need to take a survey of what software people who wanted to run this actually have.

There is no need for the members to run any software. I might be providing them an excelsheet but the amount of functionality is so minimal that they can reconstruct it in 5 minutes typing to a blank sheet. Or do totally without. The explanation upthread makes it clear that all the members have to do is to submit their bids and asks once per day (or less if they don't want to participate in market making), and for that any channel that can verify their identity is OK.
3859  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: 2014 USD/mBTC Price Prediction Contest on: October 02, 2014, 12:52:01 PM
Why is sgbett still in the competition at all if he hasn't submitted anything for 2 rounds? Shouldn't that in itself lead to disqualification?

No. The rules allow for this. He just gets zero points for those rounds. (He also has several submissions from the earlier rounds that are scored normally even if new ones are not submitted.)
3860  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Cryptocurrency with the best distribution? on: October 02, 2014, 12:51:02 PM
Quark has already achieved more than Monero so it is the evidence,  Monero is held by what ? 20 people? maybe?  maybe 40 ?

Your number on people holding Monero is extremely far off. I know at least 40 and I'm quite sure that I know only a tiny percentage.

Bitcoin has about 1 million and the marketcap per user is $5,000. Now if we think Monero has the same marketcap per user (which is very far-fetched), it should have 1,000 users.

Monero downloads typically measure in 10,000s per week. Poloniex alone has 5,000 distinct speculator accounts. MEW has 60 members a week after inception while membership costs 10 XMR at least and is only really possible for BCT accounts.

By getting back to marketcap per user metric, 5,000-10,000 users ($500-$1,000 per person) is reasonable. If all exchanges are considered, the number might be 10,000-15,000. Probably not more though.

I don't know of anything that Quark has accomplished, so it's not a comparison. Auroracoin had a much bigger pump, but is equally dead now.
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