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3861  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 29, 2013, 12:30:25 AM
Roll Eyes Pointless tangent is pointless. You picked on the word 'stable' and used it as an excuse to ignore the rest of my post:
From a false premise, one can derive anything.
3862  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 29, 2013, 12:28:33 AM
An economy is much better compared to a machine in operation than a static construction such as a bridge.
Or compare it to the marchers who have to adjust to the changing terrain in that scenario.
Economies are affected by all sorts of obstacles: droughts, fertility cycles, disease, weather and more. 
It must adjust, or face a worse fate than if it had. 
The best decision makers for these adjustments are the myriad folks with their boots on the ground. 
When central command is from afar, marchers may not adjust as adroitly.
This marching community may sing the same song and walk in cadence when times are easy,
and move to a different tune when it is not.
3863  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 09:07:48 PM
There's scant evidence that two heads are better than one, and absolutely none that a billion heads are better still.  A mob's intelligence does not grow with its numbers, quality is not a function of quantity, though a shrewd Georgian once pointed out that "quantity is a quality all of its own."  Everyone gets to be a wit.

Auctions
3864  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: .1BTC if you guess my number. on: June 28, 2013, 07:56:45 PM
101 (non-duplicate) guesses, and nobody got it.

The correct answer was: 241

Code:
Two hundred forty one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/241 -tkbx (bitcointalk)
SHA256--> 9a52486ec6b39cd0cf036954621843b0da87cf0cb36aedd8317e10593641129f

Thanks for playing, maybe I'll do another one of these soon when I have more bitcoins Wink
Nicely done.
3865  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California on: June 28, 2013, 07:47:20 PM
The Foundation is the target here, they can handle this.

They can? Let's see how well it goes when they start referring to the state officials as 'haters'.
At least it was a soft ball. I think that demonstrating that the foundation is a money transmitter will be hard for CA. It could even be a good fight to get into.

In Politics, often times the right hand doesn't know (or care) what the left hand is doing.

In all honesty, I think what happened is that PayPal, a California based company, filed a complaint naming the bitcoin foundation and using local sellers as evidence. The state didn't even bother to see if there was a connection and sent the scary looking letter. No actual discovery was performed.

That's my suspicion.
I tend to agree.  They could start with a reply that they have ceased and desisted from all money transfer businesses.  (Maybe they were planning some in the future?)
That would put the ball in the other side of the court, and at least let the State define what they are concerned about.
3866  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 07:42:34 PM
I'm happy to assume they are smarter than I am, but that doesn't necessarily make them smart enough to outwit the aggregate folks outside their influence.
For a more resilient economy, distributed power seems superior.  More choices in currencies, more flexibility to create and innovate.  The problems seem to arise when we get too much in one place.
At its core, money is just that stuff folks use to convince others to do things that they wouldn't otherwise do, (for free).
3867  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "Dollar headed for 'multi-year rally' " on: June 28, 2013, 07:33:50 PM
The dollar is useless.
It's infinitely more useful than your internet monopoly money (which appears to be crashing as we speak).
For relativistic definitions of infinity?  Or is this hyperbole?
3868  Local / Nederlands (Dutch) / Re: Bitcoin Village @ Ohm2013 on: June 28, 2013, 07:19:07 PM
Hallo,

I am interested to join if you can tolerate een reiziger uit California.
I was there in 97, 01, 05 & 08 but missed the Hackers at the end of the Universe.

3869  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 06:50:21 PM
The problem with "stable" is that it is a subjective valuation.  All economies oscillate, it's called the business cycle.  Unfortuantely, there are many people who will make well intended, but ill advised, attempts to suppress that oscillation.  The result of which is that 'forces' become pent up, and create greater havoc when they are finally released 'out of phase'.

(Let's use examples of -2% growth during bust, 4% growth during boom, and 2% long-term goal, figures out of my ass)
I actually still believe that this aspect of the Keynesian economic theory is sound. Specifically, when the cycle goes into bust (e.g. -2% growth), you spend to support it, when it goes into the boom (say 4% growth) you take in more to suppress it, and thus, on the grand scale, even it out to a somewhat of a 'steady' growth of, say, 2% over the long term.Over all, value gets sucked into a "rainy day" fund, and expanded when the rainy day comes.

I'm not sold on the Keynesian idea yet.  The problem seems to be the "you".  If it were just you and me, we would save for rainy days, and then spend on the rainy days.  When we put the burden/raison d'etre on the too-big-to-fail central banking geniuses we get moral hazard and more failures.  Eventually the too-big-to-fail does fail and then all the stuff lumped into it goes with it.  The US is tossing Health Care onto the heap this year.  Who knows which straw will break the back, but eventually it seems to happen.  The USSR becomes the many former states, the big empires fall to the failures of their banks when those confidence gamed, lose confidence.

We saw a spike in US interest rates this week at the mention of the possibility of some future slowing of the dollar faucet.  That was from one guy's speech, not due to any specific change in the economic situation, or government failing, just Uncle Ben.  This is where meritocratic operations fail, when they are overextended.  No matter how smart Ben may be, which no doubt is smarter than any of us, he doesn't merit that level of authority.

We lose one of the great benefits of capitalism, which is the spreading out of the decision making to all the tiny capitalists who each with their own decision powers add to the whole picture.  Power concentrated loses that access to the many brains of the population and relies on just the guys in the center.  Over time, that is never going to be as good as the distributed decisions of the community of capitalists in the cloud.
3870  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 06:09:13 PM
governments had millennia to perfect the scam, and today it works flawlessly.  
Brazil might disagree with the flawless workings today.  Some seem to be standing up to their government.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/world/americas/public-rage-catching-up-with-brazils-congress.html?pagewanted=all
3871  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 28, 2013, 05:55:49 PM
So someone wants to unload huge coinage and is propping up buy side to pick off anything offered above his fake walls? Since gox has usd delays he can bleed it out slowly over two weeks. I've been scratching my head at this market for days now and can only come up with this.

You have a point here. Eyes often glued on clarkmoody, that strategy makes sense, previous support at 100 was removed just before passing it. Lets see how the walls at 95 act.

Those fake buy walls are actually a huge risk for the wall owner.  He thinks he's just propping up the price for his smaller sells, but if another whale wants to cash out, he can easily sell into them and the wall owner will be stuck with 3K extra coins that he can't unload.

There's whales, and there's leviathan.  Now that Bitcoin is a currency, it is fair game for the Federal Reserve to toy with as well.
3872  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 04:39:26 PM

The problem which the Anarchocapitalists is that they want two systems which mutually exclude each other: Anarchy and a progressively increasing economy.


I don't want a progressively increasing economy.  I want the right economy.

OK, let's have a quick look at what that might entail. Say you want a 'stable' economy, it would probably need:
population headcount change = 0
people's changing 'needs' = 0
land or industry encroachment on other economies = 0
net non-renewable resource depletion = 0
net inflation = 0

Therefore, (unless I've missed some other factors for stability) any profit is probably either inaccurate accounting or a transfer of wealth from the loser to the winner. One example of a profitable activity might be to innovate a new machine that produces widgets more efficiently than the machines all the other widget-makers use. Despite rejecting "intellectual property" (I guess that's off-topic and maybe a good candidate for another thread) you guys seem strongly in favour of doing these innovations for the sake of competition (no arguments there).

However, the reward for innovation seems to be the same as the reward for resource depletion, inflation, banning contraceptives, and all that other stuff. I.e.: because profit. With all those other opportunities, why choose innovation?

Without intelligent oversight, to me it seems you'll eventually get your stable economy, but only after numerous resources have been depleted, and various bubbles (including population bubbles) have burst. It's a doomsday scenario.

Secondly, even if things manage to stabilise, there's still a big question mark over how the current (or a future) level of technology would be sustained without all that extra energy being pumped in. The whole world's basically running on oil, gas, coal, nuclear fission, and cheap labour.

This doesn't appear to be an accurate characterization of Moonshadow, or at least not how I read it.

There can be profit for all parties in a transaction.  I have more than I need of A, you have more than you need of B, we swap.  When that happens the "economy" grows.  This is irrespective of any change, growth or depletion of population or anything else. 
By "right economy" it seemed to mean "undistorted" rather than "unchanging".
But then, I may not have understood Moonshadow's intent.
3873  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California on: June 28, 2013, 04:12:46 PM
can somebody tell me why a foundation that is meant to represent a worldwide monetary movement is based in the United States, when that country is VERY bitcoin hostile?

1. Regulators released guidance indicating that bitcoin buying/selling within the bitcoin economy is affirmatively OK, and would not require every user registering with the government, as many conspiracy theorists had direly predicted.
2. Many bitcoin users are in the US.
3. Many bitcoin investors are in the US.

The sum of that != bitcoin hostile.  Just the opposite.

It's also silly to loudly complain when people are standing up and volunteering to take slings and arrows on behalf of others.
+1
Yes.  The complaining seems misplaced.
The Foundation is the target here, they can handle this.
Keep doing what you do best.
3874  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 04:06:18 PM
There are technical advances that reduce the burden of government.  Google's car tech is one.  Fewer police, less worry about drunk drivers, insurance issues, etc.

Bitcoin is another such.  There isn't much need for a government to protect my Bitcoin stash, I think I have that handled.
It is shared with those whom I trust, whether they are consanguineous or not.

Hard to decide if uncomfortable facts are intentionally ignored, or if i'm not being direct enough.  Phrases like "reduce the burden [on] government" and "worry about drunk drivers" only add to my confusion, so i'll highlight some points, betting on the off-chance i was misunderstood:

There are no "burdens" for governments.  At least not in the sense of "something which must be done, but they'd rather do without."  Those "burdens" are governments' lifeblood & raison d'etre.  That's what governments *do,* they live & breathe the stuff.  Lightening one set of "burdens" will just drive governments to create new ones.  One war fizzles out?  Start a new one: on drugs, on another country, on terror.  Most grownups know that most wars aren't started to be won.  They are nurtured and lovingly tended to by intelligent men so that they may continue to be integral workings of our modern economy.  

Knowing this is enough neither to stop wars nor makes them unnecessary. Just like knowing governments are motivated by their own, and not your, self-interest is enough to make governments disappear.  

*Take this as a margin note, meant to put my other posts in perspective.  It is not intended to be factual, falsifiable, or an attempt at logical derivation.  Simply to shed some light.  I hope this disclaimer is enough to avoid another pointless tangent.

OK, substitute raison d'etre for burden.
Those to whom you go to for help, you also empower. 
The less we need it, the less power it has.
3875  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 03:50:47 PM

The problem which the Anarchocapitalists is that they want two systems which mutually exclude each other: Anarchy and a progressively increasing economy.


I don't want a progressively increasing economy.  I want the right economy.  The best way to have that is to take a 'hands off' approach, because politicos really don't know as much as they think they do.


This makes some sense.  If trade is mutually beneficial, the economy ought to increase.  When it isn't it decreases.  Over time this also includes the non-trading third party that share the environment, which if harmed decreases the economy too, yes?  It doesn't seem to necessitate an unsustainable growth or even any growth, and the growth is just a measure of the participant's good faith dealing.

Perhaps the political class needs it to increase to win elections and so may sacrifice long term for the term of the next election important to them.
3876  Other / Politics & Society / Re: "Dollar headed for 'multi-year rally' " on: June 28, 2013, 02:00:19 AM
Gold and silver are down, dollar is up, just means there is a sale on gold and silver.  I like getting my silver for 50% off.
3877  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 28, 2013, 01:45:42 AM
There are technical advances that reduce the burden of government.  Google's car tech is one.  Fewer police, less worry about drunk drivers, insurance issues, etc.

Bitcoin is another such.  There isn't much need for a government to protect my Bitcoin stash, I think I have that handled.
It is shared with those whom I trust, whether they are consanguineous or not.
3878  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Experiment] Abstract Coin 0.3.0 on: June 27, 2013, 11:22:24 PM
Darktongue(260uAC) = Wallet[ACLEZ37|Darktongue->SendAbstractCoins(ACN1KKE1|Praxis ,  250 );
confirmed

Wait...  Did Darktongue have 260 or 250 before this? Will have to smoke some hashes and block the chains to deconfubulate the abstructure of abstractionary distractions.
3879  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: .1BTC if you guess my number. on: June 27, 2013, 11:17:53 PM
314, 628, 942
3880  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: .1BTC if you guess my number. on: June 27, 2013, 07:33:35 PM
3.14
I like Pi
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