I've seen this claim on the boards before. Do you think this directive really applies to anything that can be sold for money? So pancakes, flowers, and kisses ARE money if someone trades them for money?
If you buy pancakes and that they can be used in other unrelated places to "buy" goods or services, then those pancakes are money. The difference is that, at least, you can eat your pancake. With Euro, dollars or bitcoins, you can't. Okay, in my house and at least one other pancakes are traded for many things including oz of OJ and sexual favors so I guess they are money now. In addition to that, I think it's amazing that a law can forbid an action not regarding what this action "is", but only regarding what it is "claimed" to be. It's like punishing "intention", not "acts". In french that's what we call a "délit d'intention". I very much think such a thing is unconstitutionnal. What people have in mind is never a crime. Crime is what people do, not the reason why they do it.
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Tion mi jus rimarkis ! Pri tio mi felicxas, cxar ecx en la franca aux en la germana la vikio ne estas tradukita. Kiun mi devas danki ? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) PS. ah ne, nur parteto estas tradukita, bedauxrinde ![Sad](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/sad.gif)
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So far, I just bought them.
But I intend to sell some linux stickers very soon. They will be very cheap, since I will sell them below my purchase price.
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Im very keen in establishing this market, my plan is to offer any bitcoin based businesses to purchase shares and publicly establish their shares on the market. Investors would then register at the market site and would be able to buy and sell shares in the companies available on the market. I would have flat share rate for companies purchasing and establishing their entity on the market, something like for 0.01 per share plus a small entry fee, minimum share capital to enter the market is 100.000 shares. I also have found script which could serve the needs and operation of this market, although a few mods will be needed before it could even be launched in beta, and of course the demand from potential bitcoin businesses and investors.
I think people are keen on being an anonymous shareholder and public the use of key cryptography. Thats no problem, all share holders would be anonymous anyway, its only share prices and company names that would be public. I'm afraid such an activity would be illegal. Therefore, apart from purely IT-oriented businesses, with off-shore servers, it would not be possible.
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My table is a piece of wood and a table at the same time. Or more precisely is a piece of wood and is being used as a table at the same time. Nobody sees nothing wrong with this. Things can "be" two (or even more) "things" at the same time.
Is your table really a piece of wood ? I mean, it's made of wood, but there are other stuffs in it : nails, painting, whatever... And you're talking about YOUR table, which is a particular table. Some tables are made with other material than wood. You can say "my table is a piece of wood", but you can't say "A table is a piece of wood". This not a definition, not even a characteristic for the general "table" concept. Definitions are always tricky if one wants to question them thorously. But the good thing is that they are nothing but conventions. It is therefore pointless to argue about them. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care much whether gold and bitcoins are money, currency or commodity. This is all relative.
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Question, quelle est votre motivation pour acheter des bitcoins ? Jeux boursiers ou autres ?
Ben c'est juste que ça me parait bien mieux que le cash pour stocker de la valeur, et même mieux que l'or (même si je ne vendrai pas tout mon or, non plus...). Hum, sinon, louer un serveur, ça peut être rentable... bonne idée.
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Ummm, what do you think??? Guaranteed monopoly?
No, not guaranteed. Not even likely. The difficulty would adjust in short order, and they would, at best, be left with collecting the new coins for as long as they were willing to commit the resources to the endeavor. I seriously doubt that they would consider it worth it for long. However, if they were willing to commit the entire thing to generation of bitcoins for a short time immediately after a difficulty adjustment, ram through the generation as fast as they can, and then stop as the difficulty adjusted so high that it took an hour or more to find a single block solution; then they could dick with the network for a very long time. But this could also be done by any group of people willing to act in collusion to the same end. Still, this would only frustrate the network for as long as they were willing to keep it up, but never break it. Also, I doubt they've built this machine in order to generate bitcoins ! ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Bonjour messieurs ! Bien heureux de voir d'autre francophone sur ce beau forum ! J'ai personellement découvert bitcoin par un collègue de travail, et de fil en aiguille, découvert le GPU client. Ce projet m'intéresse fortement =) Au plaisir de ce reparler ! Malouin P-S Québec ici ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Salut malouin. pas beaucoup de monde ici pour l'instant. J'espère que ça va changer.
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Damn governments. Alway thinks that they have the right to regulate everything and anything.
+1 F.ck.ng b.st.rds. I hate them.
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"Tianhe-1A was designed by the National University of Defense Technology (NUDT) in China, and it is already fully operational. To achieve the new performance record, Tianhe-1A uses 7,168 Nvidia Tesla M2050 GPUs and 14,336 Intel Xeon CPUs. It cost $88 million; its 103 cabinets weigh 155 tons, and the entire system consumes 4.04 megawatts of electricity." http://voices.washingtonpost.com/blog-post/2010/10/supercomputer_in_china_super_f.htmlUmmm, what do you think??? Guaranteed monopoly? Even if there were the only one who generated bitcoins, it wouldn't be of much use if they don't spend it. That the point of fixed amount money system : any corner is only temporary, otherwise it's useless.
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Remember, the French are nuts and prone to collective madness. Gald that they didn't have their own hitler figure. It would be really fricking bad and much worse than the German.
Well, we had Napoléon Bonaparte, if such a comparaison worths anything.
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Just want to remind people that I sell silver too.
You have to like french coins, though.
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Bitcoin's law: If a discussion grow longer, the probability of an argument on what exactly bitcoin is increases. Is it money, currency, commodity, or something else entirely?
IMHO, it is both currency and commodity, because it behaves like a gold bullion. Ok but what is gold ? Is it money, a currency, a commodity or what ? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Truly gold is a chemical element. Nothing more. Well, in the same way, bitcoin is a p2p network that comply to a certain protocol. If you want to know what is bitcoin, the best way to find out is to read the source code. PS: this is "applied objectivism", I guess ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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It's very common to denounce the "digging ditches" fallacy as an absurd way for keynesianists to try to improve work market by offering useless jobs.
I think there is also some kind of useless intellectual work which is used in current bureaucracies and technocracies.
I saw once a movie which was quite subversive, and was trying to question the very basic fondations of our societies. In a scene, several friends were talking about theirs jobs during a dinner. One of them was criticized for its job of physician, and for the huge amount of money he was "earning". At some point, he said something like :
"During our youth, we studied hard to gain our diplomas. It's normal that we now get a reward for that."
This is a strange conception of economics. It sounds that for him, a good salary is a right you earn once with some work, and that is perpetually yours after that. As if intellectual superiority during youth could be a way to obtain a privilegde of being paid every day not for what has been done during this day, but for what was done a long time ago.
Knowledge is not a way to acquire the right not to comply to economic rules. It is supposed to be a way to accomplish oneself, and hopefully to create wealth while doing so.
Sometimes it seems to me that intellectual elites think that there is just no way to earn one's life decently in a free market. Therefore, they think they should organize a way to recognize each other by distinguishing smart young people, in order to give them the right to finance their way of life via taxation and thus by the use of public force.
Of course, this is absurd, because all this brain power is not used for what it is, but just as a way to obtain something that can very much be considered as a priviledge. This is a waste of intellectual resource, but above all, a huge injustice.
PS. Here in France, for instance, 56% of the GDP directly comes from state spending. Some polls showed that 70% of young people would like to become a state employee. And of course, but this is just an impression I've got, it seems to me that as in many countries in the world, the professions that are associated to social success are mostly those who are not related to economics reality (not complying to offer and demand, but to state subvention or direct funding) : physicians, lawers, teachers and such.
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I missed the name of the 1000nd member. Too bad.
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this is really rather incorrect. he's the principal in this venture, and he chooses to sell X% equity stake for Y amount in funds. there's nothing wrong with that. sweat equity is quite important.
you are of course welcome to decline his offer, or try to bargain for more stake per dollar, but it is not unreasonable for him to claim some percent of equity without necessarily putting in that same percentage of monetary capital. that's how public financing works.
e.g., when google sold its ipo for $ungodlyamountofbillions, while page and brin kept >50% of equity stake, do you think they magically came up with billions of their own money to put in? no, they didn't have it to put in. essentially, they said "we're selling X percent of the firm, being represented by some number of shares. investors, feel free to bid on the right to own a share".
Well, this is all quite true. But to me it is not clear that Kiba was aware that he was selling 50% of his company, and not 100%. Kiba oviously can't sell his reputation at a huge price as Google did. The only thing he could sell beyond the price of the machine, is his idea and his motivation to make it real. And it is not particularly original. Thus to me, his company worhs very few more than the price of the machine. It is nice anyway to see such a young person (I think he said he's a teen) interested in venture capitalism. I might indeed be interested. But he has to come up with a proper initial offering.
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Dude that is NOT cool. I think you should seriously consider redacting your welcome post as it is beyond embarrassing .
Bruce is here because Ive been speaking to him on twitter about bitcoin. Sorry for such a rude introduction Bruce from a fellow bitcoin user I assure you that is not the normal sort of behaviour around here.
Well, that was funny anyway. ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) Just don't take it too seriously ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Also, if someone is very interested in an internet project, I doubt such a bad welcome could prevent him from getting more involved.
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Bitcoin Watch is now making available per-trade historical data for mtgox, bitcoinmarket PPUSD, bitcoinmarket LRUSD and bitcoinmarket PGAU. It's in CSV text format, zipped: http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/trades.zipRobot authors, please do not poll this more than once a day. Do not consider this a real-time feed. You do not need to download the entire history of bitcoin every 5 minutes! If you need a real-time feed, please connect directly to the marketplace tickers themselves. Cool. I'm going to have some fun writing a bash/gnuplot script in order to print a graph of that. Edit. I like the format of the datetime ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Edit bis. Here is some code : #!/bin/bash
cd /tmp f=trades.csv
if ! [[ -f "$f" ]] || (( $(stat -c %X "$f") < $(date +%s) - 3600*24 )) then wget http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/trades.zip unzip trades.zip fi
tail -n +2 "$f" | cut -d, -f1 | sort -u | { declare -a currency
while read c do currency+=("$c") grep "$c" $f | cut -d, -f 2,3 | sed -re 's/"//g; s/,/ /g' > "${c//\"/}" done
[[ -z "$DISPLAY" ]] && echo "set terminal png ; set output 'btc-graph.png'" IFS=, echo " set xtics 5e6 set style data lines plot ${currency[*]} " } | gnuplot -p && [[ -z "$DISPLAY" ]] && fim 'btc-graph.png'
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Bitcoin's law: If a discussion grow longer, the probability of an argument on what exactly bitcoin is increases. Is it money, currency, commodity, or something else entirely?
This reminds me of a reflexion I had once about objectivism. It started when I was wondering whether there is a real qualitative difference between democracy and dictatorship. I was also wondering if one can really consider democracy as a "dictatorship of majority towards minority". Then it appeared to me that all those definitions are purely conventionnal. It's only in maths that things have clear bondaries that allows us to identify them with no doubt. In real life, there are, as antic materialist philosophers said once, "only atoms and emptiness". There is no point arguing endlessly about how to call things. Things exist beyond the name we give them. That's how I understand objectivism.
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In practice, predictable inflation is also hurtful because it is not evenly spread. The people with the printing press get all the new money.
+1 And it's not just rethoric. I used to work in a bank and the director told me once how important it is to stay "near the tap".
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