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3881  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP 17 on: January 21, 2012, 05:37:08 PM
I assume that there is an implicit OP_CODESEPARATOR that sits between the ScriptSig and ScriptPubKey (the terminology here should probably be updated to better reflect what these two things really are…but I'm not sure how I would describe them).
There used to be, but before the protocol was made immutable it was changed so the scripts are instead executed in sequence with only the main stack inherited between them.

I supposed if I had it to do over, I would have created an opcode to push a segment of script onto the stack…it would push just the portion of code since the last OP_CODESEPARATOR.  Then you could have something like

   scriptSig: [signature] OP_CODESEPARATOR [pubkey] OP_CHECKSIG OP_PUSHCODE
   scriptPubKey: OP_HASH160 [20-byte-hash of {[pubkey] OP_CHECKSIG} ] OP_EQUAL

Now that I type this, I realize this would only require one new opcode, OP_PUSHCODE instead of OP_CHECKHASHVERIFY…maybe BIP18?  Like BIP17 (unlike BIP12 and BIP16), there are no special execution semantics, and OP_PUSHCODE seems a little more generally useful than OP_CHECKHASHVERIFY (which is generally desirable for things that are going to consume an opcode).
I agree this would be better, but I'm pretty sure it's impossible to make it backward compatible.
3882  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP 17 on: January 21, 2012, 03:36:29 PM
Litecoin
How about we leave scams out of this? Off topic.
3883  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: PULL request #748 : Pay-to-script-hash (OP_EVAL replacement) on: January 21, 2012, 01:52:24 AM
Can a pool operator please mine a block containing a P2SH transaction on main net and redeem it. I'd like to a do some P2SH preperation, but don't have Testnet setup.
You can do it with Eligius. Just be sure to pay the appropriate fee.

I'll be doing a BIP 17 P2SH test as soon as I'm done integrating it with git master (the hard part is undoing the BIP 16 mess).
3884  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP 17 on: January 20, 2012, 09:19:00 PM
Is either proposal easier for a client to manage?  It looks like both require the client to keep track of the script since it is not in the blockchain.  Is this correct?  Is there a potential to "lose" the script, or can it be recovered in some way?
That's the same for all 3 BIPs; the client already needs to manage a private key. The scripting sugar is easy to reproduce if you have that.
3885  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)? on: January 20, 2012, 09:04:07 PM
mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
So if someone ever gets a virus even once, they should be financially ruined for life?
3886  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)? on: January 20, 2012, 08:40:41 PM
The concept is that you have to approve transactions on both your PC and phone, so a virus on one of them doesn't steal your money.
3887  Economy / Marketplace / Re: DO NOT USE KALYHOST on: January 20, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
Screw Cinfu and their crappy oversold service. http://bitvps.com/ all the way! They are run by a proficient pen tester who is available on IRC (Freenode - #btcvps)
The original poster is clearly not competent enough to use a VPS, or else I would have plugged my own service earlier. :p
3888  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: change language to english in official bitcoin client on: January 20, 2012, 07:00:41 PM
The question you should be asking, is why your OS is configured for a non-English language...
3889  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: include messages in transaction, alternate use: anti spam email on: January 20, 2012, 06:58:12 PM
No reason clients can't relay them too.
3890  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: WARNING Transactions and Addresses will soon be used as high volume data storage on: January 20, 2012, 06:56:51 PM
It is spam. Create your own blockchain or equivalent, like Namecoin did. If it's sane, I will merge-mine it with Eligius to keep the spam off Bitcoin.
3891  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP 17 on: January 20, 2012, 06:19:01 PM
I haven't seen discussion of BIP 17 anywhere besides IRC, so I thought I'd start one.
I was waiting until I finished a reference implementation to post about it, but thanks for the early review. Smiley

I'll start by saying that I'm trying hard to put aside my biases and dispassionately evaluating the proposal on its merits (I'll just say that I'm not happy with the way BIP 17 came to be, but it is what it is).
Thanks, and sorry for not being more tactful with introducing it.

Old clients and miners count each OP_CHECKMULTISIG in a scriptSig or scriptPubKey as 20 "signature operations (sigops)."  And there is a maximum of 20,000 sigops per block.  That means a maximum of 1,000 BIP-17-style multisig inputs per block.  BIP 16 "hides" the CHECKMULTISIGs from old clients, and (for example) counts a 2-of-2 CHECKMULTISIG as 2 sigops instead of 20. Increasing the MAX_SIGOPS limit would require a 'hard' blockchain split; BIP 16 gives 5-10 times more room for transaction growth than BIP 17 before bumping into block limits.
This is indeed a benefit to the evaluation-based solutions (both OP_EVAL and BIP16), but I personally feel it's not needed nearly as urgently (how many blocks have over 1000 txns of any kind so far?) and there are many other such hidden-from-old-versions improvements that could be thrown in. BIP 17 does not preclude adding such a solution (ideally without the crucial flaws in BIP 16) in the future should it become necessary, after people have had more time to figure out just what should be added and implement them (for example, I think everyone agrees it would be nice to provide pubkey extraction from signatures).

With BIP 17, both transaction outputs and inputs fail the old IsStandard() check, so old clients and miners will refuse to relay or mine both transactions that send coins into a multisignature transaction and transactions that spend multisignature transactions.  BIP 16 scriptSigs look like standard scriptSigs to old clients and miners. The practical effect is as long as less than 100% of the network is upgraded it will take longer for BIP 17 transactions to get confirmed compared to BIP 16 transactions.
Since scriptSigs must always follow scriptPubKey, does this really make a big difference? ie, if people can't send them, they can't receive them anyway.

Old clients and miners will immediately accept ANY scriptSig for BIP 17 transactions as valid. That makes me nervous; if anybody messes up and sends coins into a BIP 17 transaction before 50% of hashing power supports it anybody can claim that output. An advantage of BIP 16 is the "half-validation" of transactions; old clients and miners will check the hash in the scriptPubKey.
Old clients don't know how to receive any P2SH transactions right now, so they won't display them in any circumstance.. Old miners won't accept them because they fail IsStandard. There is a slight risk of producing a block stealing BIP 17 funds and resending them immediately, but the same attack vector also affects the other solutions and has no effect on people who follow the best practices of waiting for 6 confirmations.

OP_CHECKSIG feels like it was originally designed to be in the scriptPubKey-- "scriptSig is for signatures." Although I can't see any way to exploit an OP_CHECKSIG that appears in the scriptSig instead of the scriptPubKey, I'm much less confident that I might have missed something.  I'm much more confident that BIP 16 will do exactly what I think it will (because it is much more constrained, and executes the CHECKSIG exactly as if it appeared directly in the scriptPubKey).
It's evaluated the exact same way in all 3 scripts, and already accepted in scriptPubKey. If there is an attack vector here (which seems very unlikely), it is there both with or without BIP 17.

I've never liked OP_CODESEPARATOR-- it is not like the other opcodes, the way it isn't affected at all by OP_IF
Isn't it?

and the way it 'steps out' and causes the raw bytes of the transaction to be hashed.
This is only true when BIP 17 is in use. Why is it a problem to hash the script executed, as opposed to execute the script hashed?
3892  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: PULL request #748 : Pay-to-script-hash (OP_EVAL replacement) on: January 20, 2012, 03:16:24 AM
What's with those "NOP2SH;p2sh/CHV"?
Voting against BIP16 (which uses "/P2SH/") and for BIP17 (CHV).

Code:
strings ~/.bitcoin/blk0001.dat|grep '\/P2SH\/\|NOP2SH\|OP_EVAL\|p2sh/CHV'|tr ';' '\n'|sort|uniq -c|sort -n
3893  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: PULL request #748 : Pay-to-script-hash (OP_EVAL replacement) on: January 20, 2012, 02:29:34 AM
Just by grepping the blk0001.dat file, I see 4 votes for, and 8 votes against.  I'm pretty sure that means that Luke is still against it, one person is for it, and the entire rest of the mining world is uncommitted.
Just wondering, where do you see any votes for BIP16? I see 602 votes for BIP12/OP_EVAL, 8 against BIP16, and 4 for BIP17/CHV. But I was commenting on verbal discussions with other poolops.

I'm guessing from the fact he said this, but: in the blk0001.dat file.
Yeah, that's where I got that. There is no "/P2SH/" in blk0001.dat...
3894  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: PULL request #748 : Pay-to-script-hash (OP_EVAL replacement) on: January 20, 2012, 01:56:37 AM
Just by grepping the blk0001.dat file, I see 4 votes for, and 8 votes against.  I'm pretty sure that means that Luke is still against it, one person is for it, and the entire rest of the mining world is uncommitted.
Just wondering, where do you see any votes for BIP16? I see 602 votes for BIP12/OP_EVAL, 8 against BIP16, and 4 for BIP17/CHV. But I was commenting on verbal discussions with other poolops.
3895  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: PULL request #748 : Pay-to-script-hash (OP_EVAL replacement) on: January 19, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
I run two kinds of nodes, a bitcoind node and a phoenix-miner node. Which one, or both, of these nodes needs to be updated to support P2SH?
Just he bitcoind node.
Very few miners still run bitcoind nodes. So all you need to do is get the top 2 or 3 pool operators to switch to the new code and you've secured the 55%. Are any of the pools on board so far?
Thankfully, the majority of big pools are opposing BIP16.
3896  Other / Meta / Re: [Forum PULL] Support for bitcoin URLs on: January 19, 2012, 02:54:03 PM
In order to be compatible with the w3 spec for custom url schemes it would be good if the chosen URI was prefixed with web+ e.g.

web+bitcoin://
This will be an epic failure for w3c if it goes through like this. Be sure to write them and tell them how ridiculous these custom URI rules are. More important to comply with the long-standing IETF RFCs, which we already do.

Then you can have your favourite website, not just desktop software, register itself as the bitcoin protocol handler.
Then you can have only a website register itself: normal/sane software is not allowed to register for these "web+" URIs.
3897  Other / Meta / Re: [Forum PULL] Support for bitcoin URLs on: January 19, 2012, 07:09:29 AM
I don't like this behavior, especially since a single URI specification hasn't been decided on yet (AFAIK).
Pretty sure the simple bitcoin:<address> case is unanimous.
3898  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [419 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC+NMC merged! on: January 19, 2012, 01:57:17 AM
On Topic;  Luke, is it the getworks that are slowing down the hash rate without tripping CGminer to fallback?  That parts seems a bit strange.
If I knew the problem, it'd be solved.
3899  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [419 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC+NMC merged! on: January 19, 2012, 01:20:52 AM
I guess this is the new type of "dos attack"    

Under the old dos attack, if speed drops, then there should be some share submitting problems with cgminer,
and cgminer will automatically switch to other pools.

This new "dos attack" does not. It EAT shares,  Strange  Wink
Any shares accepted should be represented as usual. If that's not the case, please double check your miner isn't dropping the shares (eg, with Wireshark) and get in touch with me about it in our IRC channel.
3900  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world! on: January 19, 2012, 12:38:40 AM
If someone has something of value to add that could help the development of RLC, please dont hesitate to post.
How about fixing the many known design flaws and bugs in Bitcoin that Bitcoin can't fix right now due to compatbility?
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