Oh, just thought of something else. Regarding my statement above, I would need to file that form...unless Unless I export the bitcoins (value of $5K) to a wallet after purchasing. Then price doubles to $10K. But, the bitcoins are in my wallet, no longer in the account. So the account value never exceeded $10K. The value of my wallet did though!  oh, now I finally understand that weird "account" feature in the satoshi client. It's for dividing up money into multiple accounts for regulatory evasion purposes. The word you are looking for is "avoid" not "evade". The first is legal, the second can get you a free room with bars, but nothing good to drink. That feature wouldn't do either though, the requirement is triggered by the sum of foreign held accounts going over US$10 in the previous tax years, so it doesn't matter how many accounts you control, if they add up to 10K, you are on the hook. Again, don't take any advice from me, I'm just mentioning the dragon sitting over there looking hungry. How you handle it is entirely your business. |
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Oh, just thought of something else. Regarding my statement above, I would need to file that form...unless Unless I export the bitcoins (value of $5K) to a wallet after purchasing. Then price doubles to $10K. But, the bitcoins are in my wallet, no longer in the account. So the account value never exceeded $10K. The value of my wallet did though! Yes. That avoids the filing requirement. (If it never reached US$10K in value on foreign land). There are other ways to avoid it, but that would suffice. IRS rules are often weird that way. They seem designed to encourage some arbitrary behaviors vs others. |
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A word to the wise: http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2013/06/25/reminder-fbar-filing-due-by-june-30/FBAR reporting requirements are due for all folks in the US who have a foreign account that had a value over US$10K in 2012 with the IRS. Penalty for non-reporting can be as much as 50% of the value of the account per year (not profit) though are much lower for provably innocent mistakes. To reiterate, it doesn't matter if you cashed out anything or took any profit or just held it all in BTC, it is the value of the account and it being in a foreign nation that triggers the report requirement. Call your tax attorney to understand your situation, don't take my advice. I wonder which exchange should be used to determine such value. Like the one where you can't take dollars out or the ones that aren't based in US? The one that matters will be whichever the IRS wants to use to show that there should have been a filing. |
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No, I actually don't think it's a conspiracy. I was just saying that to get the loon off my back (don't tell him or he'll tell aliens to come get me). lol
OK, well then to put some more spin on the theoretical alien ball game, if Obama doesn't expect Putin to extradite Snowden, does forcefully demanding it give Putin more credibility domestically in Russia? Is Obama doing Putin a favor with this? The NSA by now likely know just how much Snowden has and can have accommodated. So now it would be more gamesmanship and public opinion management? The Byzantine-General voting tally, as it were. Conspiracy theory makes for fun script writing, but other than that, is it useful for anything? |
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The question is does this apply for equal barter income? Even if they do, is there any tax liability if you exchange $2000 worth of BitCoin for $2000 worth of Gold there is no profit therefore shouldn't be any taxes.
Or I guess the taxable event already has occurred when you barter so the income is realized when the exchange occurs. For example:
1. You exchange $100 of BitCoin for $100 dollars of Silver.
2. You pay tax on $100 of income.
3. If you sell your Silver for Fiat for $100 as you have already claimed the $100 in income. You should theoretically only pay tax on any gains above $100
If there are any accountant's/lawyers here can you please clarify this?
The taxable event there occurred before #1. Gaining the Bitcoin can be taxable, and you can deduct your costs (mining, electricity and etc) if you kept good records and itemize. The other exchanges are no more taxable than exchanging dollars for euros (they are not income, they are exchange). Income tax applies to earned income. #3 may be taxable if there is a gain, and it would be at capital gain rates, however depending on the type and amount of silver, it may or may not have a reporting requirement. (The New Liberty Dollars do not trigger such a reporting requirement as they are outside the CFTC list) The gain incurs tax liability either way though. But don't rely on my advice, listen to your own (paid for) tax lawyer. It makes sense, but I'm not 100% sure. With your example a mining company that mined 1000oz of gold would list profits on that 1000oz even if they didn't sell any? But it could very well be that way. Or another example it's like a company producing shirts, they produce 100 shirts but haven't sold any, that is not income. The difference being that Gold is classed as a currency, and as of this year's guidance, so are virtual currencies. |
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Do you or do you not believe the Snowden case is real?
I don't believe anything, so the answer to your question is "no", even if I thought it was real. I don't know anything about the guy personally, and I KNOW the media plain makes shit up, and I know that if he is all over the msm, it is because the powers that be want him to be on it, and that they are using the story to push an agenda. Pretty ironic that your sig is "GROUPTHINK kills braincells!!!!!!" Groupthink requires that you THINK! What your saying sounds like mad rambling paranoia. What agenda could they possibly have for making the government look bad? The "powers that be" wouldn't happen to be aliens would they? Why don't you follow your own advice. You didn't even read what I wrote or any of the article. You've switched from strawman to ad hominem fallacies. I think we're done here. No, I did read it. I just thought maybe you were the "staff reporter" they credited. You're right, it's all a big conspiracy. It just sounds like a lot of effort wasted on a country full of people that care so little about the inner workings of their government that they seldom even vote. lol I'm no conspiracy buff, but wouldn't that put j.assange and wikileaks on the inside of the conspiracy as well? Are they sock-pups? |
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The question is does this apply for equal barter income? Even if they do, is there any tax liability if you exchange $2000 worth of BitCoin for $2000 worth of Gold there is no profit therefore shouldn't be any taxes.
Or I guess the taxable event already has occurred when you barter so the income is realized when the exchange occurs. For example:
1. You exchange $100 of BitCoin for $100 dollars of Silver.
2. You pay tax on $100 of income.
3. If you sell your Silver for Fiat for $100 as you have already claimed the $100 in income. You should theoretically only pay tax on any gains above $100
If there are any accountant's/lawyers here can you please clarify this?
The taxable event there occurred before #1. Gaining the Bitcoin can be taxable, and you can deduct your costs (mining, electricity and etc) if you kept good records and itemize. The other exchanges are no more taxable than exchanging dollars for euros (they are not income, they are exchange). Income tax applies to earned income. #3 may be taxable if there is a gain, and it would be at capital gain rates, however depending on the type and amount of silver, it may or may not have a reporting requirement. (The New Liberty Dollars do not trigger such a reporting requirement as they are outside the CFTC list) The gain incurs tax liability either way though. But don't rely on my advice, listen to your own (paid for) tax lawyer. |
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A word to the wise: http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2013/06/25/reminder-fbar-filing-due-by-june-30/FBAR reporting requirements are due for all folks in the US who have a foreign account that had a value over US$10K in 2012 with the IRS. Penalty for non-reporting can be as much as 50% of the value of the account per year (not profit) though are much lower for provably innocent mistakes. To reiterate, it doesn't matter if you cashed out anything or took any profit or just held it all in BTC, it is the value of the account and it being in a foreign nation that triggers the report requirement. Call your tax attorney to understand your situation, don't take my advice. What has your accountant said about this? I will call mine tomorrow, but I was under the impression that the US Government still has not classified BTC as a currency which wouldn't require filing. My understanding is that if there is $10,000 in the account at any point during the year you would need to file the form. So if you import BTC to Mt. Gox and sell it off for $10K, you have $10K in the account. Or if you transfer $10K to the account to purchase BTC. So what happens when you buy BTC with those 10k and now you don't have 10k anymore and you're lying in your statement..? How is this handled with forex? ( just curious, not an american..) It doesn't even matter if it is BTC or USD$, if the VALUE goes over US$10K adding ALL foreign accounts of anything you have to file. So if you have US$5K in gold in Switzerland, and $5K worth of BTC, you are at the minimum to file. Doesn't mean you owe any tax, you just have to file the paperwork.... but if you don't file it, and they call you on it, you have to pay a LOT. It is a Banking Secrecy thing. |
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Like I said, please don't take this as nagging or hating. I really do think you have a strong core service, and I do like that you have solid priorities in place. This has the potential to become another awesome service. =)
+1 |
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All hail for the great evil empire.
As much as I hate being the bearer of evil tidings, I really love you all and don't want to see you hurt by what you don't know. This also may be some of the reason for the recent price drop. US folks taking some out to pay off the tax? |
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A word to the wise: http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2013/06/25/reminder-fbar-filing-due-by-june-30/FBAR reporting requirements are due for all folks in the US who have a foreign account that had a value over US$10K in 2012 with the IRS. Penalty for non-reporting can be as much as 50% of the value of the account per year (not profit) though are much lower for provably innocent mistakes. To reiterate, it doesn't matter if you cashed out anything or took any profit or just held it all in BTC, it is the value of the account and it being in a foreign nation that triggers the report requirement. Call your tax attorney to understand your situation, don't take my advice. |
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To add one more... Problem identifying tends to outpace problem fixing, always and everywhere.
(The old trope: everyone's a critic)
So: Add a "Coming soon" section to list all the ideas that you are planning to implement but haven't so you don't get a lot of the same requests over and over.
You have the germ of a tremendously valuable service for the community. Keep up the good work.
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Those bitter little PMs you sent my way are all the reward i need I haven't a stance. Maybe that's why its vague to you? I don't have the answers to "the way things ought to be" and yet am deeply curious about those who do. So here I am bemused by your random potshots apropos of nothing, but not at all enlightened by them. All you have taught me yet is that "the way things ought to be" would include fewer folks inclined to behave like yourself. So lets pause to figure that out. Inexplicably you seem to be enjoying inspiring emotions in other folks that they are not enjoying. Why is that? I feel as if you're not fully open with me, NewLiberty, as if something's ... left unsaid. If not for your otherwise irreprochable manners, i may have read a hint of anger or even malice into your piqued tone. Tell me i'm a fool to worry?  Not an answer. OK, I will be the good sport and go first. I'm trusting that way, though you have provided no reason to be so. With respect to you: Curiosity replaced ennui. With respect to the primary discussion for this thread: Eagerness, was lost to patience, over your chasing off my interlocutors. Though I suspect some may ultimately return if you manage the introspection requested here. Your turn. Why do you delight in creating unwelcome emotions? |
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Well, if you really want the global view on money. Here is the fresh info: http://www.bis.org/publ/arpdf/ar2013e.pdfThe Central Banks of the world, their relative debt levels, change over the last few years, etc. its on www.bis.orgIf you want it in French, German, Italian or Spanish. |
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this explanation is missing something important. whats in it for you?
I already asked, post 11 & 13 The website makes a 2% commission which is paid by the buyer of the bitcoins. This is what is "in it" for Bitcoin-Brokers. than why does the title of this thread say "zero fees"? I would respectfully point out that the title says "Bitcoin to cash with zero fees". This is an accurate title because the sellers of bitcoin will be able to convert their bitcoin to cash with zero fees incurred. It is only the buyer who incurs fees, which is 2%. lol that cost will still be passed on by the buyer to the seller in the form of higher lower prices. a fee to either party effects both parties equally in the transaction. FTFY Apparently the 2% is worth it to some buyers. The price is set by MTGOX so there really is only transfer of cost to the extent that bitcoin-broker affects the MTGOX published price. In other words, not much until some effective arbitraging occurs. It is a cost to the BTC buyer though. |
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I've heard that silver mines are expected to dry up by ~2020. That's a ways off, but food for thought!
There aren't any silver mines these days. All the silver that is mined today is byproducts of other types of mines. Silver is too cheap to mine currently. If silver were REALLY expensive right now, they might call some "copper mines" operating today "silver mines". (Whatever the main value product of a mine is at the moment considered the "type" of mine.) New Liberty Dollars are at record highs too, but they are extremely scarce compared to the eagles, even though they can be bought more inexpensively. The US Mint has a marketing budget, we non-government private minters can make them for less, and ours are better too.  |
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Those bitter little PMs you sent my way are all the reward i need I haven't a stance. Maybe that's why its vague to you? I don't have the answers to "the way things ought to be" and yet am deeply curious about those who do. So here I am bemused by your random potshots apropos of nothing, but not at all enlightened by them. All you have taught me yet is that "the way things ought to be" would include fewer folks inclined to behave like yourself. So lets pause to figure that out. Inexplicably you seem to be enjoying inspiring emotions in other folks that they are not enjoying. Why is that? |
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Please answer this question, as no one ever does: Who paid for that military force or that police, and why can't they pay for it directly if there was no government?
I'll answer that for you: The army is a pretty big thing, i.e. more than a couple of guys. Sometimes more than even a hundred  Paying for an army is not very similar to buying a pig, there's that whole scale issue. Just how does an individual go about paying for an army? That's right, a financial instrument is needed. And an oversight committee to manage that financial instrument & the standing army. You know what that oversight committee is called? Yup. The government. Enjoy. Edit: If you wish, you don't have to call this financial instrument "The Government." Call it what you wish, but, once in place, this financial instrument will be as easy to annul as today's government. So, "The Government" created a "Financial Instrument," said "This financial instrument has value, so you soldiers better take it and use it, or else we'll make yourselves enforce yourselves to use it by making you hold your own guns to your heads," and that's that? Yeah, makes complete sense. Ohboy. You're sharper than a blanket. No. The government didn't create anything. The people needed a financial instrument, and its overseers, thus creating The Government. When things don't make sense to you, just remember that God still loves you even though your head's filled with lint & mouse droppings. Chin up!  You have this backwards if you were referencing the USA. Government came before financial instrument, and tried to avoid creating it. Even went so far as to make anything except gold and silver illegal constitutionally for states to issue. The Fed was born only 100 years ago. During some of the highest growth period of the US, folks used physical gold and silver as money, and bank notes and warehouse receipts for gold and silver. But you are right in that unbacked paper money usually comes into existence in response to threat of war. The Fed is the not the first central bank in the US, (the third depending on which you count) the others just didn't last so long. Through its early years, there were gold and silver notes (payable in specie) in circulation alongside fed notes (payable only in other fed notes). That they looked so similar was not accidental. It was a multigenerational bait-and-switch. |
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