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3981  Economy / Economics / Re: US Outlook if/when Bernake retires? on: June 20, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
From marketwatch

"high-profile investor Jim Rogers says bonds everywhere are in a bubble, and the pop is coming.

In an interview with Fusion MarketSite a day prior, Rogers says the timing on that bubble is tough, of course.

    “But at some point, markets won’t take central bank policies anymore, and interest rates go up regardless of how much bond buying they do. Market timing is tough. As for the fixed income market, I’m short junk bonds. In any market, the marginal stuff goes first. This could precede problems with sovereign debt.” "

Greenspan inflated the housing bubble, and Bernake inflated the bond bubble, at each step, they just delayed the unavoidable and pushed it to a much higher scale  Roll Eyes
3982  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin is government and banks' savior on: June 20, 2013, 02:42:03 PM
Now FED just indicated an intention to tighten, we immediately see the price of stock/gold/oil crash, the current economy is purely dependant on the continuously inflated money supply

Another problem is jobless. Last time the big wave of industrialization pushed many people from production to service sector, and now computer and software squeezed people out from service sector again, where should they go?

A rational step is to scale back the production and reduce the working hours, but the huge debt caused by money printing made this impossible

Bitcoin seems the only hope for them, they have to grow this new economy to be able to create more income and jobs

A very scalable model: 50% people are creating money, while 50% of people are doing various kind of production/service (since productivity is too high, 50% of labour force are enough to satisfy all the demand on earth), all have a good income. If the productivity rises even higher, then 80% of people are creating money while only 20% of people are doing production. Since everyone wants money, the demand for money is much higher than any other product/service, so this business should have the largest amount of labor force

But in such a model maybe the supply of money should be constant



3983  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 20, 2013, 12:56:49 PM
Bitcoin at least have some kind of payment function, gold and silver now works only as a speculation tool, now FED is going to tighten, the price immediately tanked
3984  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The snowball effect of bitcoin-only sale on: June 20, 2013, 02:18:05 AM
I understand that mass adoption is the goal here.  But unless i'm mistaken, you're implying that beyond that, the seller would also profit financially by limiting his customers to Bitcoin-only transactions.  If that's the case, i'd like to understand the logic behind that claim, specifically how trading in Bitcoin exclusively would benefit me more than simply offering Bitcoin as an option.
If i misunderstood, and you're simply calling for merchants to ignore profits & selflessly promote Bitcoin, i'm with you.

From just your business point of view, getting more sales should be more important. But it could take some time to see the ripple effect of bitcoin-only sale: After some of your customers learned to get bitcoin and pay for your products, they will realize many benefits of bitcoin, and spread the words to others and get more people involved. And the more people start to provide bitcoin-only sales, the more popular bitcoin will become, demand rise, value increase

If merchants simply offering bitcoin as a payment option, this ripple effect might never happen, people will just ignore the bitcoin and pay with fiat, they simply don't have the motivation to get bitcoin at the first place
3985  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL chips selling thread on: June 20, 2013, 12:51:15 AM
After further thinking, this is a very interesting topic: People might give up those credits instead of sell them cheap

Suppose that there are 2000 chip credits and there are only 1000 chip purchasing order, if every one go to market place and compete to lower the price to sell their chip credit, they will eventually reach a very low price for each chip credit, almost 0. (If you do not accept that price, your chip credit will not get sold and become useless, so from a pure profit point of view, everything above 0 is acceptable)

But, if they reach a consensus automatically that they will not lower the price below a certain threashold, eventually they would still sell 1000 chip credits at a much higher price (for example $12.5, for chip buyers any amount of discount is good), so the average chip selling price would be much higher than previous case, avoid a "race to the bottom" price war
3986  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [WTS] 384 BFL cheap chip credits :-) on: June 19, 2013, 11:46:55 PM
I have credits for 384 BFL Chips. I believe there is no way to split the code so the price is 35BTC for all of them. You can pay in BTC, LTC or cash if you like to meet in person in Poland :-)

You can also PM me an offer.

More information about BFL chip credit program:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3272-customer-appreciation-chip-credit-program.html

I also received some chip credit, but I suppose that you can select some of them and transfer to one person, and select some others later to transfer to another person, e.g. split them
3987  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL chips selling thread on: June 19, 2013, 11:21:02 PM
I don't really understand this, the number of potential chip purchase will be less than the number of people who pre-ordered ASIC devices, in principle some of the chip credit will never be used and worth nothing, why so high price now? If the chip buyer facing large amount of chip credit sellers, he could just pay the least possible, unless all the sellers take a either sell above a certain price or trash approach Roll Eyes
3988  Economy / Speculation / Re: Coming ASICs device will further increase the price of BTC. on: June 19, 2013, 11:38:36 AM
IMO difficulty is irrelevant to price.I believe the contrary will happen: many gpu miners ordered asics with hefty investments. They will need to recoup their investments once equipment starts producing, hence increase selling pressure.

Anytime, the price is affected by the selling of quick profiters vs buying of long term investors. Short term profiters will sell the coin as soon as they made some fiat profit, Long term investors usually have a plan to move part of their existing fiat asset into bitcoin and hold it for many years. I believe that many of the early adopters are hardcore longterm investors, these people drive the long term trend of bitcoin, and that's the reason difficulty is always related to price long term wise

When price dropped too low or difficulty raised too high and GPU mining can not cover the electricity cost, some of them with high electricity cost will shut down the rig and just buy bitcoin direct from exchange, and that has an effect of lower difficulty and raise the exchange price, thus put some balance between difficulty and price
3989  Economy / Speculation / Re: Coming ASICs device will further increase the price of BTC. on: June 19, 2013, 04:09:49 AM
Ever since May 2011, the mining factor are constantly low, even with the price spike above $250, it never reached 2011 high, now again all the GPU miners are mining at a loss



3990  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] First 500Gh/s BFL unit up and running! on: June 19, 2013, 03:50:23 AM
Maybe they don't have enough ventilation for the mini-rig, single should be much better cooled

I just did days of extensive search for a quiet but powerful 120MM fan, so far Gentle Typhoon AP15 1850 RPM seems work best for cooling this kind of heat sinks
3991  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] First 500Gh/s BFL unit up and running! on: June 19, 2013, 02:50:06 AM
It's been up and down numerous times as I've been chipping away at the code to make it work at its theoretical maximum 480GH.

It's mostly working now. Here's what I've got:

Code:
 cgminer version 3.2.2 - Started: [2013-06-19 02:17:06]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 (5s):477.6G (avg):472.1Gh/s | A:16  R:0  HW:193  U:10.8/m  WU:6575.3/m
 ST: 2  SS: 0  NB: 2  LW: 11012  GF: 0  RF: 0
 Connected to XXX diff 500
 Block: 00179d4404ca1359...  Diff:19.3M  Started: [02:18:28]  Best share: 9.56K
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 [P]ool management [S]ettings [D]isplay options [Q]uit
 BAS 0:  max 68C 3.28V | 56.23G/58.22Gh/s | A:1 R:0 HW:18 U: 0.67/m
 BAS 1:  max 69C 3.27V | 58.92G/60.48Gh/s | A:1 R:0 HW:23 U: 0.67/m
 BAS 2:  max 74C 3.27V | 60.53G/59.85Gh/s | A:4 R:0 HW:19 U: 2.69/m
 BAS 3:  max 80C 3.28V | 62.52G/61.58Gh/s | A:1 R:0 HW:20 U: 0.67/m
 BAS 4:  max 86C 3.27V | 74.56G/59.90Gh/s | A:4 R:0 HW:39 U: 2.69/m
 BAS 5:  max 71C 3.28V | 64.25G/58.79Gh/s | A:1 R:0 HW:25 U: 0.67/m
 BAS 6:  max 81C 3.27V | 59.93G/58.98Gh/s | A:2 R:0 HW:25 U: 1.34/m
 BAS 7:  max 72C 3.27V | 43.22G/60.81Gh/s | A:2 R:0 HW:25 U: 1.34/m
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note the hardware error count may appear very high, but bear in mind that it's mining at diff 500


That's just too hot, 86C degree??? Delta fans needed  Cool
3992  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: US Accountability Office Reports Re: Virtual Currencies on: June 19, 2013, 02:43:57 AM
Interesting, since bitcoin's value is always rising, means most of the purchases made by bitcoin always result a loss, does it mean that people who spend bitcoin always receive tax deduction?
3993  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The snowball effect of bitcoin-only sale on: June 19, 2013, 02:33:15 AM
Your reasoning is quite good but the problem is finding the leader who will start the revolution.

Can you imagine Apple selling its next iPhone 6 only in BTC?
Can you imagine Ford selling its next Mustang only in BTC?

Maybe David Bowie could sell its next songs only in BTC?

I'm afraid this is going to happen sooner or later, once you made some bitcoin-only sale, you might never look back at fiat Wink

During the starting phase, some merchants might prefer that only 1% of their sales go to bitcoin, but soon they will find out that this part of the companies sale contribute more than other parts of the sales to the company's total revenue and then they will increase the percentage accordingly

It just a public awareness, I'm already planning bitcoin-only sale for some of my products and I will keep track on the status of those sales
3994  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The snowball effect of bitcoin-only sale on: June 19, 2013, 02:24:11 AM
If i have a hot widget, and want to sell as many of them at the highest possible price, i should make purchasing it as frictionless as possible.  Today, this means accepting Bitcoin as an option -- making any form of payment exclusive can never help, but only hurt, the sales volume.  
If i then feel investing in Bitcoin is wise, all i'll need to do is buy Bitcoin.  As long as the cost of that transaction* is lower than the profits i've gained by making my widgets available in any currency, profit.  I can also pick & choose the timing & volume of my investment in Bitcoin, and profit from Bitcoin's volatility.

*Some of these costs could be discounted if you allow that the customers buying my widgets in "Bitcoin-only" sale would have to convert their fiat into Bitcoin, thus effectively increasing the fiat price of my widgets.

At first glance this has the same effect as bitcoin-only sale, just you buy the coins later with all the income, but the point is promote mass adoption. If your customers are interested to buy bitcoin-only products, they might buy more coins than just your widget worth and some of those coins will support some other merchant's bitcoin-only sale later on
3995  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do we want to work with money regulators, or keep Bitcoin unregulated? on: June 19, 2013, 02:09:53 AM
If one country regulate it, users just move their servers to another country. Bitcoin can be mortgaged for a loan in USD, and you get tax reduction for the loan interest  Cheesy
3996  Economy / Speculation / Re: Coming ASICs device will further increase the price of BTC. on: June 19, 2013, 01:29:58 AM
Price is just a lagging indicator. First come demand, then comes people who want to get coin, then they will evaluate the different approach of acquiring coin: Mining vs Buying

If price is too high, they will invest in mining devices; if difficulty is too high, they will buy directly

Price itself can also become a deciding factor when it rises very fast, but when price dropped, no one stop mining, since the long term projection is always positive due to limited supply

3997  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin should be at $13,500 ? on: June 19, 2013, 01:16:18 AM
I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires.  

I am not sure.  If I am honest, I was not really that interested in BTC until my husband explained to me that there was a slight potential for each coin to be worth thousands someday.  Then I became very interested, perhaps with impure motives.  However, upon researching it more I have grown to see that there are so many other benefits.  It really can be liberating understanding the depth of "freedoms" this currency could bring if it gain worldwide adoption.  So, I have other reasons for supporting it now that are not just about "making millions."

So perhaps threads like this can spark an interest in some people that will help fuel the fire that starts growth.  Just my thoughts.

Exactly, freedom is the best word to decribe bitcoin, a pure bitcoin economy works like a country without boarder and regulators, a real free market with minimum influence from human factors. Freedom is almost priceless
3998  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: KnCminer will provide HW to cloudhashing.com on: June 19, 2013, 12:14:31 AM
There is no legitimate business that give investors a 500% return in one year, apart from PONZI SCHEMES ->


Some one bought bitcoin last summer now have a 2000% return in one year, in bitcoin's world everything is possible, that's why such kind of venture exists, Wild Wild West Grin
3999  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The snowball effect of bitcoin-only sale on: June 18, 2013, 02:57:35 PM
I run a small forum with 150 or so dedicated members. The site renewal came up and instead of asking for cash donations I posted my BTC wallet and only accepted BTC.

I received 0.00BTC.

Guys posted complaining that they wanted to give but couldnt figure out how to get BTC. I had posted links to various methods but it was too much of a PITA for anyone to do.

I think that's the barrier...it's too hard to convert your government money into BTC. Too hard and takes too long and costs too much.

Exactly, people tends to select the most easy way to pay, not exchange and pay

The only people that can pay right away are those bitcoin miners and early adopters, but after they spent their mining income and difficulty went to roof, they also have less motivation to spend their coins

Some virtual currencies in game have to be bought with fiat money, the gaming company usually provide an easy way to purchase those currencies. If you provide bitcoin-only sale, you should also provide your customer an easy way to purchase bitcoin, and that part of service should be provided by exchanges
4000  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: KnCminer will provide HW to cloudhashing.com on: June 18, 2013, 11:45:33 AM

So go ahead and use AT LEAST x4 the current difficulty for your calculations... Oh wait... You ordered 30TH/s, so only your order will make difficulty to go up by 20%, without even considering the impact on difficulty of the 1,000TH that KnC will likely ship simultaneously to your order. And... Oh wait, difficulty is currently increasing by +25% every 10 days aprox., which would mean x7 by September.


This is a positive sign, the huge profit window for ASIC devices are closing, soon people who want to get bitcoin have no other choice but buying
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