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41  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ANN [MCO] MONACO #1 Cryptocurrency Payments Card on: September 01, 2017, 05:17:11 AM
app is flawwed

still cant log in or do anything. I get the email, thats as far as it goes..

Doesn't surprise me. MCO keeps telling people their almost there, almost there, and keeps delaying the VISA support proof and rolling out the cards for people to actually use. They are behind other Crypto debit cards and its becoming more apparent each day.

I think MCO is great on paper but needs to actually create something like the TenX PAY card. Tenx will do something like TETHER cryptos so they will have a stabilized element to their cards.
Here is the proof from the TenX founder himself.

https://youtu.be/wCA6zGBNS4g?t=20m50s


What's the purpose of using the blue color? Just say what you need to without shouting, and if you don't like the Monaco project, sell the tokens.
42  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ANN [MCO] MONACO #1 Cryptocurrency Payments Card on: September 01, 2017, 05:13:34 AM
app is flawwed

still cant log in or do anything. I get the email, thats as far as it goes..

Doesn't surprise me. MCO keeps telling people their almost there, almost there, and keeps delaying the VISA support proof and rolling out the cards for people to actually use. They are behind other Crypto debit cards and its becoming more apparent each day.

I think MCO is great on paper but needs to actually create something like the TenX PAY card. Tenx will do something like TETHER cryptos so they will have a stabilized element to their cards.
Here is the proof from the TenX founder himself.

https://youtu.be/wCA6zGBNS4g?t=20m50s


Let's be precise. The app is not flawed. It doesn't work for you. It worked for me and other people apparently. Honestly, Google is flawed because it often says that there's no compatible device, while there certainly is. Anyway, I managed to reserve the card. There's a mail contact, contact@mona.co, and a specific app development contact, dev@mona.co. You can get in touch for support.
43  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin transaction accelerator is it true or not? on: August 25, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
viabtc works but it's a tough to get a transaction pushed as they only allow 100 requests per hour. I use http://btcaccelerator.online

I think you are a scammer, my friend. Any txid pasted will report that the tx is not confirmed.
44  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ANN [MCO] MONACO #1 Cryptocurrency Payments Card on: August 24, 2017, 06:54:41 AM
I see we have slightly different opinions, and I am glad we share them.
I hope MCO may raise 0.2, but I admit I will certainly exit sooner, at least a substantial part of my portfolio.

Thanks for the constructive remarks guys, it really helps the thread.

Imo MCOBTC 0.2 is quite improbable. It's fantastically far-off. I would really like but I don't think it will happen. 0.02 spikes as I pointed out might be frequently possible. Fast spikes. What I may see is a stabilization at some point in time at 0.01 when the service is making headlines. We should study the price stabilization so we can better know when we should liquidate part of our holdings. In order to do that it's crucial to see the goings of the fundamentals besides the technicals.
45  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ANN [MCO] MONACO #1 Cryptocurrency Payments Card on: August 23, 2017, 05:45:09 PM
0.0026
Where some expected 0.005...

Weak hands are pulling the trigger today?
This will inevitably occur in the future as the MCO market is at the center of large trading floors and the market will be pumped from investors and whales, so the price tag of  0.005 BTC is sure to happen.

I agree with you on this point. But future is a broad term. It could be 2 days or 2 years...

Agreed as well.
And actually it is 7 days: What matters now it the timeline for the product release. (we could even see a spike at 0.007 during the 1st move up.)

TenX is already up and running on Android,  Centra, the outsider (some people call it a scam) has big plans: it's a lot of competition for MCO.
MCO has an advantage bc it should target the Southeast Asia market, where Centra is US+Europe and TenX a bit everywhere.
I did not say China... I believe Chinese do not know about MCO (they pay with WeChat anyway..), which could explain the dip yesterday on Binance: It's up to MCO to promote their tech in mainland China if they want to have traction there.

Little piece of advice for some here: you may have read a ton of BS about MCO reaching 1BTC etc... Do your own research, and make your own calculations.

Interesting points. Did you sell your MCO today? Can you tell us?

Nope. HODL so far.
I had already reinforced at 0.0027 long time ago, playing a dip. (again I announced it on the forum, I even missed a train forecasting a dip and the coin raised... to dip 2 days later only.)

If you read some of my posts above, you will see that, my personal forecast for MCO/BTC is :
  
  - very long tern: no clue. It can be a multi-billion business, or nothing...

  -  long term: 0.003 to 0.005 (20M tokens and a BTC north of $6k)
--> simple maths where MCO is around $500 to $700M market cap.

  - mid term: 0.005 maybe 0.007 (again depending on the price of BTC), maybe a spike at 0.01 BTC per MCO on the hype-ramp after product release.
--> Binance listing is a good point here, it will increase liquidity and help the coin move up faster.

  - short term: oscillating between 0.0027 and 0.0032
--> I did a couple good trades within this range, but as we move closer to the product release the more dangerous it becomes, and standard trading indicators do not mean a thing anymore.



I may be completely wrong of course, but so far such analyses went pretty good on other coins.
Happy to discuss and disagree :-)

 
My goal is to generate BTC with MCO, not USD. Therefore my trades only goal is to increase the total amount of BTC in my wallet: I only invest in coins I believe will raise faster than BTC (not a lot of them...)
--> BTC price raise is the party pooper here, but hopefully some high quality people here will buy my MCO sell-order at 0.095 MCO/BTC. ;-)

Quite nice having some interesting reflections on the future of MCOBTC.
Based on my expectation and the high unimagined potential of the product offered by Monaco, I would push myself further.
I would in fact say that 0.01 BTC is not an outrageous prediction for MCO as a stabilization price in the long run because most people in the crypto space and beyond would definitely need such card. The abandonment of traditional bank card services is something many people aspire to.
This is why "multi-billion business or nothing" is a valid observation imo.
I do believe in this project so much. I really see a stupendous future of utilizing Monaco-like cards, above all in a situation in which the banking system is more and more government-directed and conniving with extensive shady political structures. The payment industry can really be revolutionized by the introduction of such card. Governments would be required to keep pace with this by monitoring transactions in a heavy and systematic fashion. However, the technobureaucratic cost of doing so would be enormous.
I do want to see what will happen. Really. Fiscally oriented transaction monitoring is the future of governments. Though compliance is always something that every financial services business conforms to, there is nevertheless a tremendously increasing cost such that governments will be increasingly challenged and prone to stumble and blunder blatantly. People will have to notice and appreciate the beauty of a technological advancement in the payment and transaction industry. They will have to embrace this somehow. Perhaps slowly and with noticeable uncertainty. But in the end those who really care about forsaking the conventional bank card services will stand in awe in front of such beauty.
The price must be a necessary consequence of this beauty. I believe so. Monaco started something, very silently. Omise Go is doing something that may be taken to be similar, but it's categorically different. We all need cards to pay. They are easy, comfortable, slimline. They are what we need.
This is why in my opinion MCOBTC may stabilize in the long run around even 0.008-0.01, with possible (numerous) spikes at even 0.02 BTC. The spikes being dictated by the urgent need for a vast minority to see a change.
Since at times I have a need for profit, I sold all my exchange-bought MCOs, while my ICO MCOs remained untouched. After selling I realized that it was not good, and that there cannot be any short term with MCO. You have to buy and hold. I needed thousands of them. Now I understand that I was right. Monaco is an excellent investment because it may start a disruption and promote it throughout.
46  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: August 18, 2017, 03:26:37 AM
as many of you already know, our verge transfers over discord is now up and running.

more coming shortly.

hope everyone has a great weekend  Grin

Awesome!
Have a great weekend, dev.
47  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] COMPCOIN - AI Token For Financial Trading - JUNE 14 on: August 12, 2017, 01:08:52 PM

I have studied the website. The people in charge.

This project is not a lightweight project. This is a big promising project with amazing potential.

If this project succeeds it will a billion dollar worth piece of software.

The team got it together. A lot of big things are going to come.

Get in now while you can.

I would like to agree, but I can't. Since the ICO price per coin was definitely high, I was uncertain, and after receiving silence from the people behind it, I decided to step back and forget about it. Too mysterious. I had an email exchange with the president, but he didn't give me any substantial information.
I'm interested in AI trading. BUT, hey, no presence. I wanted to know about their connection with Altredo, a shady trading blackbox firm. Nothing. The pitch at SeedRamp is not convincing even because this venture capital firm doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable about crypto.
Find here the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8gCO2aHBT0

I would like to believe in this project, but who created it believes that it's not important to be communicative about it.
Too bad.
48  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] COMPCOIN - AI Token For Financial Trading - JUNE 14 on: August 11, 2017, 04:39:08 AM
Sitting at under 90 cents right now. Is anyone buying this crap?

While doing my due diligence, the people behind the "project" had nothing to say: questions remained unanswered. I actually had my answers: nothing.
From 15 USD per coin at the ICO and still now to 1.40 USD at the moment is literally incredible! It is real. I don't even know how this initiative would work: after acquiring 10000 USD of CMP tokens, you should be entitled to receive a stick to securely hold your coins and benefit from the AI based trading features they boast of in the white paper.
49  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] COMPCOIN - AI Token For Financial Trading - JUNE 14 on: August 10, 2017, 07:08:17 PM
does anyone have a link to a windows wallet ?
since the wallet seems to not exist ...
  ..... im actually a bit offended by the fact id like to check the coin out but cant find a wallet for it , you guys never supplied a link or anything .... i even found an article on your website quoting "anyone who gets the wallet can participate" but WHERE IS THE WALLET ?
would i be correct in saying you have to be an ico investor to even have one?    if so how stupid .......good luck trying to sell a coin people cant even get a wallet for if they try lol

Hi,
if you want to store CMP you can use Coinomi, HD multicoin wallet for Android. In case you want to use the wallet on Mac or Win, just install the Android emulator Bluestack, download the Coinomi apk and install on your desktop computer.

I was interested in this coin, so I tried to get in touch with the company behind it. I asked some questions but had no answer. What I know now is that the ICO price was 15 USD per coin. Actually, I guess one can still purchase CMP coins from them on their homely and uninformative website. Crazy! After one week on the market, it is now less than a dollar.

Hey, I am curious about your Bitcointalk signature. Is it true that on Bter coins disappear? What's going on there?
50  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: August 09, 2017, 07:51:13 AM
Hello Sunerok and dev team,
I have a question about the TOR and I2P web wallets.
How does ownership work with these wallets? I mean: does using these online wallets mean that the holder is still absolute owner of the coins?
Please give insight on this. Thanks.

yes, we have no way of accessing user's coins. the seedphrase gives ownership to them. (it can be converted into a privatekey using a tool, https://vergecurrency.com/seedphrase/ )

Thanks. I mean the TOR web wallet at http://vcmlfg3fgsmy2teu.onion/.
Anyway, I guess this wallet, even if a TOR based one, should not be used because you don't really own your coins by using it. Is it correct?
51  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: August 08, 2017, 06:16:10 PM
Hello Sunerok and dev team,
I have a question about the TOR and I2P web wallets.
How does ownership work with these wallets? I mean: does using these online wallets mean that the holder is still absolute owner of the coins?
Please give insight on this. Thanks.
52  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network on: August 03, 2017, 04:00:40 AM
Have bought some Agoras on Bittrex.
Am I right in thinking that if I send those to an OMNI wallet address before the 1st August and leave them there that there is an automatic 15% locking bonus?
Think I read this somewhere before in the thread but I can't find the post again now.

Last February I asked Ohad about the 15% bonus. His reply "Yes, all coins that won't be moved from the upcoming first of March, until the final coins will be ready, will receive the extra upon time. Also without me keeping them."  Hopefully this still stands.

that's true, but need to be done before the upcoming 1st of aug (i.e. will be relevant only for tokens that didnt move at all since this upcoming date). we just dont have enough coins left to allow this locking bonus further

Hello Ohad, I am new here. I went through the entire AGRS Bitcointalk to get a picture of the story. I carried my AGRS tokens over to my Omniwallet prior to Aug 1. And they have stayed there since. What you're saying is that I would be entitled to 15% bonus on the total AGRS holdings. Is that correct? If so, how and when will this occur? How can the holdings be monitored? Do I need to provide the address which hosts the AGRS holdings? How does this all bonus thing work?
Thanks in advance for your reply. Have a great day!
JTB
53  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] COMPCOIN - AI Token For Financial Trading - JUNE 14 on: July 13, 2017, 06:05:43 PM
Hello,

is there anybody who participated in the Compcoin ICO and can say why he/she did so?

To the Compcoin support: When will the ICO end?
In case I invest 1000 USD, when am I supposed to receive the hard wallet? And how do I get in touch with Compcoin to provide my mailing address?

Looking forward to a reply.
Thanks in advance.

JTB
54  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: July 06, 2017, 03:54:56 PM
Is that Verge QT for osx the electrum version?
Only getting 1 connection, not seeing how many blocks it is downloading?
Keeps out of sync!

same here... ;/ trying to sync for 3 days now

try syncing bitcoin, takes over a week lol

you can go to vergecurrency.de and download the chain instead. there's even instructions there.

Hey man. So i downloaded the Verge-qt wallet. I generated a second wallet address within the wallet. I had sent my XVG from Bittrex to the wallet before it finished syncing. Once it finished syncing the wallet address disappeared and went back to having 1 receiving address and my balance is 0. I can find my transfer transaction in the blockchain explorer but now I'm wondering if my coins are lost? Also now the wallet doesn't even want to open. I have a few other alt coin wallets and everything has went smooth with the coins. But I'm having major problems with Verge. any ideas?? I have almost a million coins

Hi, I do share the issues you have. Check my posts. The Verge community is vibrant and resourceful. Great place to stay and beautiful expectations. A project to believe in.
However, the dev team should recognize that the wallets are problematic. My latest post is unanswered.
I do hope that you will manage to retrieve your coins. After that, send them back to Bittrex. They are safer there.
What I would suggest is considering using Coinomi, creating a paper wallet, and verifying it by private key on the paper wallet section of the Verge website. Having the private key is crucial. If you don't wanna use Coinomi for mobile, just try and wait for Coinomi to provide a desktop version.
My experience with the Electrum Win wallet is only partially good. The wallet is always syncing, remaining sort of stuck, even preventing me from accessing the Network section. Thus, I printed all the private keys from the Electrum wallet and used one to sweep the funds I had on the Electrum to my Coinomi account. Keep the Coinomi seed in a safe place. That is the access to your funds.
To sum up: Use Bittrex, Coinomi, and a paper wallet. Nothing else, at least for the moment.
When it comes to money, we have to determined.

our qt wallets work fine. jgreek1, if you are saying the second receiving address "disappeared" then it sounds like you allowed the client to force quit and maybe corrupted the wallet.dat

also you can verify the qt wallet synced by going into the help/debug console, and typing getinfo, and verifying that it is on the same block number as any of the blockchain explorers.

jeantheboy: the best place to open an issue is on our github for whatever application is giving you the issue, along with screencaps or pastes. we've had many people use the electrum windows wallets with no reported issues, and so far, most users prefer it since it does not require syncing and transactions are nearly instant. we are releasing mac osx clients and then we are going to stop support for the clearnet one. i am not sure if you are talking about the clearnet electrum wallet or the tor electrum either. but, do please open an issue on the github repository for the electrum client that gave you an issue.

heres an example of the electrum-xvg-tor wallet, with the network tab open:


If there's a specific place to illustrate technical issue, I didn't know that. Where is the github repository for Verge?
Thanks a lot.
55  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: July 04, 2017, 08:33:44 AM
Is that Verge QT for osx the electrum version?
Only getting 1 connection, not seeing how many blocks it is downloading?
Keeps out of sync!

same here... ;/ trying to sync for 3 days now

try syncing bitcoin, takes over a week lol

you can go to vergecurrency.de and download the chain instead. there's even instructions there.

Hey man. So i downloaded the Verge-qt wallet. I generated a second wallet address within the wallet. I had sent my XVG from Bittrex to the wallet before it finished syncing. Once it finished syncing the wallet address disappeared and went back to having 1 receiving address and my balance is 0. I can find my transfer transaction in the blockchain explorer but now I'm wondering if my coins are lost? Also now the wallet doesn't even want to open. I have a few other alt coin wallets and everything has went smooth with the coins. But I'm having major problems with Verge. any ideas?? I have almost a million coins

Hi, I do share the issues you have. Check my posts. The Verge community is vibrant and resourceful. Great place to stay and beautiful expectations. A project to believe in.
However, the dev team should recognize that the wallets are problematic. My latest post is unanswered.
I do hope that you will manage to retrieve your coins. After that, send them back to Bittrex. They are safer there.
What I would suggest is considering using Coinomi, creating a paper wallet, and verifying it by private key on the paper wallet section of the Verge website. Having the private key is crucial. If you don't wanna use Coinomi for mobile, just try and wait for Coinomi to provide a desktop version.
My experience with the Electrum Win wallet is only partially good. The wallet is always syncing, remaining sort of stuck, even preventing me from accessing the Network section. Thus, I printed all the private keys from the Electrum wallet and used one to sweep the funds I had on the Electrum to my Coinomi account. Keep the Coinomi seed in a safe place. That is the access to your funds.
To sum up: Use Bittrex, Coinomi, and a paper wallet. Nothing else, at least for the moment.
When it comes to money, we have to be determined.
56  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: July 03, 2017, 06:49:54 AM
any chance the supply will get a cut in the future, i think what is holding back this wonderful coin, is the immense supply, if it can be reduced to million instead of billion would be better imho, i know it require a hard fork but its worth the risk


This gets brought up a lot but I think we need to realize that the crypto market is still VERY young and small ($100B) and while million cap coins make sense for what the market is handling right now (most coins <$1B cap) in order to scale with a growing market cap and still have ability for microtransactions, billion cap coins will be the new norm (especially if you look at how quickly crypto can and most likely will grow in the coming year). lets get smart contracts into Verge and we can build apps and other coins using XVG which will end up growing Verge even larger and faster than just people buying and using it as simply a currency.

IMO, divisibility always needs to be considered. It is divisibility that makes a currency not need to have a huge supply.
57  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: July 02, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
The Linux electrum wallet doesn't work. It is stuck on syncing. When I try to access the network options, the app gets stuck. Doesn't move. Where is it possible to store the XVG tokens?
The web wallets are not fine for various reasons. The MACOSX wallet is unusable. Windows electrum is only for 64bit os. There is assortment of wallets on the site, but I don't know where to store.
I know I am a noob, but all the other wallets I have work and the coins are properly stored.
Storing and creating the conditions for storing should be priority #1.
Please give instructions on how to make things work.
58  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: June 26, 2017, 02:57:03 AM
Hello, I've brought this out once.
The prohashing block explorer does not reflect the actual balance.
The balance I have at DRQzMiThNaSsUEok8Nos8gKDKuQGyBCkTu is not reflected by the block explorer. The current balance I can see through the web wallet is 4.88..., while the balance indicated at prohashing is 0. The transactions listed by prohashing are not real.
Can aomeone address this? I guess this is something important.
If this is some geek stuff, please explain. It makes no sense to me.
59  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: June 23, 2017, 12:34:36 PM
yeah that's just not going to happen though. the price is created by the market, not me, and there is no "price automatically doubles" in crypto. but yeah, i get what you guys are saying. more rare = more enticing for noobs that dont understand crypto. that just isn't what we're trying to achieve, but thanks for the input gentlemen =]

Good.  Things like new mining algorithms or moving to POS are debatable, but messing around with the cap seems to be more of a central bank move.  And isn't that kind of manipulation one of the things we are trying to get away from?

Yes, it is exactly that kind of manipulation, even if it is something that sounds reasonable and is of innocent nature in the first place. But however, by opening the doors for centralized manipulation, you eliminate ALL TRUST, which is most likely the worst case scenario that can happen in cryptoworld. The markets usually react in a harsh way to dodgy things like that. Sometimes they don't, but chances are they will.

"Sometimes they don't." Well said. there are tons of fiat currencies supported by billions of people all over the world. Most people appear to react gladly to the outrageous "manipulations" exerted by the states. I say quote unquote "manipulations" because I seriously believe that it is the masses that ultimately decide that a fiat currency is to be inflated: a representative just does what his masses want.
60  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][BLACKHOLE][Entire Line of TOR/i2P Resources] on: June 23, 2017, 12:26:39 PM
Simple havling won't automatically double the price. You better read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_milkmaid_and_her_pail

As the dev said, the price is generated by the market, not by an individual manipulating the coin. If you claim to be a financially well versed guy, such statements pretty much indicate the opposite. Other coins tried it as well, which generated some initial hype, but nothing lasting. I don't see the point really. It is not a psychological barrier, it is just some concept people like you make up. It changes nothing of the inherent value of the coin, because it does not matter if you pay 500 coins worth 1$ or 250 coins worth 1$ dollar, they are just different numbers with relative value that the market decides. Huge supply also worked well for coins like DOGE and XRP, where you paid hundreds/thousands of coins for small transactions until their recent rises in market cap. You also don't know how high the markets value of the coin will rise. In a year we may see 500 billion market cap. If you go to 13,5b market cap, which is not unrealistic for some project these days, you still have 1$. Also it should be mentioned, that 1$ is quite a lot for some people/in some countries. So something that is not worth a whole house (like BTC, yes relative numbers again) may also reach out to other people with lower monetary supply, when they can pay 1 VERGE that maybe equals 0.05$

To even think about stuff like halving at these early stages is just a waste of time and especially work, which could be spent developing other things.


That is correct: price is always decided by market forces. But the decision is actually made up of points in time. Market always decides from some point onwards. There is NO intrinsic value. Inherent or intrinsic value is what has been discussed in economic environments for centuries. There exists value. It is the only existing concept. The materialization of value is the numeric representation, otherwise known as price everybody is familiar with.
From a point in time onwards a market decides anything about the value of an asset and numerically represents it. You may even merge ten coins into one, thus generating a tenfold price to preserve the total market value of the coin asset; well, you start from that point, and the market will decide how to price that asset.
A stock merge may not be something usual in finance, but it may occur, and the how is quite logical.
Just get rid of the inherent value of anything. Not even gold has intrinsic value. It is psychological residues transmitted through time and space, and taken by masses of individuals to be true.
You just said what I am saying "it does not matter if you pay 500 coins worth 1$ or 250 coins worth 1$ dollar, they are just different numbers with relative value that the market decides".
The market decides from a point in time. Simply let it decide. In the meantime, the price doubles, thus preserving the total market capitalization.

You talk to me as if I am the only manipulator in existence. A producer or distributor of an item puts its products into the market and he discretionally sets the starting price. Is he a manipulator? YES, :-) he is part of the market, and he decides a price. Perhaps this price will be obliterated by other portions of the market. LET IT BE. Markets manipulate all the time.
In a stock merge case, manipulation is really at its lowest because the market cap is preserved.

At any rate, thinking out the box is important, and concepts like inherent value should be done away with. They are detached from reality.
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