I was wondering why there wasn't already a thread on it. Perhaps everyone that saw it died laughing.

You know there were some pretty hot naked Occupy chicks at Davos running around topless.

Excuse me while I make a bunch of accounts.

Come to think of it, can't you get around the spending problem by simply sending coins to yourself on another account?

Because they don't like the fact that people save their money. Remember, it's all about SPENDSPENDSPEND!

This seems to be a new currency for the 'occupy' movement. A currency that you can only have for thirty days.

The question one has to ask oneself, how do you save enough for a large purchase? Such as a house or a car? Nevermind the counterfeiting problem.

I find it humorous that someone actually spent the time to make such a system.


http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/17199295201/introducing-the-occcu

I thought socialist economies didn't have money? If everything costs $0 what do you need money for?

Yes, too much pop-up and redirect spam. Very unprofessional.

You can have the best boobs and ass in the world, but if I get fake redirects, blind links or any other shenanigans, I'm never going to go there again and I'm definitely not going to do any business with such entities.

For some reason I'm constantly getting "problem communicating with bitcoin RPC" when using the various mining tools.

It'll kick in for a few seconds and give me a hash rate, and then die for a period of time, it comes back and goes. So it's communicating but keeps dying.

The question is, who decides what is fair?

A transaction doesn't take place unless both sides benefit, you don't buy a gallon of milk for $5,000, that's too expensive. But if you buy a gallon of milk for $4, you are saying that the price is acceptable, otherwise you would not buy it.

Same goes for every other good.

Since what you want is a 'fair market', and the free market is described as the voluntary exchange of goods between individuals, you're going to have to answer who decides what's fair, because it doesn't appear that you want it to be the individuals actually engaging in the transaction.


The actual result of this is, people will have their license to sell things revoked by their competitiors who lobby the governmental body, causing prices to go up due to lower supply. Licensing is one of the reasons why stuff is expensive in the first place as makes it difficult for supply to meet demand, and those currently engaged in that market do not want new people to enter their market as that would bring prices down.

And what if someone wants to sell below the 'fair' price, which is better for the consumer?

As usual, your attempts to help people will just make things even worse.

I suspect that this person is a troll, by the way.

Resource based economy = No prices (all resources are free)
All resources being free = Potential mass waste of precious resources
Potential mass waste of precious resources = Require central planners in order to prevent wasting precious resources.

Now, the big question is:

Where do you find the angels to organize society for us? Would you trust me to make decisions for you?

Probably not.

I've had a venus project proponent debate with me, he eventually admitted that it would require central planning (something I didn't see on the website), and he's stuck on that simple question.

Great post fellowtraveler.

However, the United States wasn't founded as a Democracy, but as a Republic. In a Republic, judges can supercede the wishes of the majority and protect the minority against the tyranny of the majority.

We've been slowly throwing that away, starting when they abolished the US Senate in 1913. (For clarification, the US Senate has become a second House of Representatives.)

I don't understand though how you can have a free market without property rights.

Much better than a government run monopoly in my opinion.

See, this proves bitcoins are worthless.

We can't even burn them to keep warm.

I'd love a copy to load up into IDA as well.

Someone coming over and burning down your house is free market too.

Does that mean you should not live in a house, since someone can come over and burn it down?

Of course not.

The same way they do it today, you deposit bitcoins into their bank instead of having them in your wallet. You have bitcoins sent to your bank account instead of your personal wallet (it would eventually happen anyway), the bank becomes responsible if they get hacked or lose the money (just like it is today), so it would be served to the masses as a solution for having bitcoins stolen from personal computers. The masses will most likely do this.

If a thief steals $250,000 in cash from you, you're hosed.
If a bank gets robbed and a thief steals your $250,000, just 5 minutes after you deposited it at the bank, the bank is hosed.

As more and more people make deposits, they'll have a base reserve that they can use to make loans against. When they make a loan they don't just send you the full amount to your bitcoin wallet, but keep it in their deposit accounts so that you only use what you actually need at a particular time.

Just like in the real world when people borrow $50,000, they don't withdraw it all as cash and go walking down the street with it in a big money bag. That would be foolish.

The reserves would have to be much higher than today because, a bailout is not possible of 10:1 lending, but they can still engage in the practice nonetheless and if they are careful of who they extend credit to and charge the correct interest rates, it'll work just fine and be profitable.


This is only during a period when they make credit cheap, once they make credit expensive and stop renewing loans, the money exits circulation and the price level will eventually adjust downward.

For example, lets say during a economic boom, they fully extend their 10.5 million coins into the economy, the price level doubles as a result, someone buys a house and now has a mortgage at the new price level.

After a few years they as the loans are paid off they don't make new loans, the money supply starts to shrink as a result of the coins exiting circulation and over the period. The price level slowly starts to drop and it will eventually be a lower price level than it was previously (because the 10.5 million coins + whatever they collected interest - defaults), say their total profits was 1 million bitcoins, so they now have 11.5 million bitcoins, bringing the remaining bitcoins to 9.5 million available.

The actual price level then reflects the same as if there are 9.5 million bitcoins, but there will still be a significant amount of loans that reflect the price level at 21 million bitcoins.

Loans remain for the original amounts even though the price level drops, this basically increases the principle of those loans, on top of any interest charged.


Currency is a whole different ballgame, mankind has been enslaved by monetary systems since the beginning of civiliation. The government doesn't need to get control of bitcoin, just the private banksters.

The government isn't in control of the US Dollar right now anyway, the privately owned Federal Reserve is.

That's the number I got but it looks like I accidentally used the number 50 instead of 25 when doing the calculation. So my around 20% figure was for the wrong year as well.


I accept. Just please don't throw insults around, it will just create a hostile community and you don't want that. I don't mind being proven wrong, but I do mind being insulted.

Nobody knows everything and if I see you (or anyone else for the matter), say something blatantly wrong or stupid I'm just going to point out the flaws, I'm not going to call them a moron or an idiot or a nutjob.

Try teaching a class of students a subject and every time they make a mistake you call them an idiot. It's not gonna work out so well.

Remember, economics is not a class you can master in college, to think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge. (I stole this from a music video)


The only thing is the network is growing at a faster rate than the difficulty it appears, so the real creation is higher than whats on paper.

Nice, more insults instead of pointing out the math. Did you see me say "If my math is correct", that means I'm admitting that I could have a mistake. If I have a mistake, you're better off pointing it out instead of being a smart ass about it.

So, please show me the math.


They don't need the government.

They just loan them out their bitcoins, possibly engaging in fractional reserve lending (but on a smaller scale and only to those who are extremely credit worthy), over time they will accumulate more and more coins, and this process repeats itself over very long periods of time. Eventually they'll have enough of them to basically control the money supplys inflation and deflation.

If they keep 40-50% of the bitcoins out of the market for a long time, there will be a price level set based on 40-50% of the bitcoins in the hands of someone that is not using the money other than it sitting in someones wallet.

When they flood the system with new loans, you will have a cycle of inflation as now there is more money in the system, the price index will rise, etc etc.
When they make credit expensive again, there will be a cycle of deflation.
Whoever can't pay off the loan will have all of the physical assets forclosed on (collateral for the loans), and the bankers can rent out the property to further accumulate more coins.

So for example pretend I have 10.5 million bitcoins out of the 21 million bitcoins, I keep my bitcoins in my wallet and I never, ever spend them or use them on anything. The price level in the economy remains exactly the same as if the bitcoin project only had 10.5 million bitcoins in the economy.

Now what happens if I loan out all 10.5 million bitcoins into the economy after the price level has stablized? Remember I'm not increasing the amount of products, only the amount of currency units.

The price level is going to rise to the new level.

And what happens when I don't renew any of the loans as they are paid back?

The price level will go back to the previous level, oh yeah, and as long as I'm careful of who I loan money too, I will have more coins than what I started with because of the interest I charged.

Now to do it all over again. If I want to create a boom, I just make credit cheap. If I want to make a bust, I just make credit expensive and not renew loans.

Over generations my entity would be able to control the majority of the money supply.

Show me a time in history, where the bankers did not gain control of a particular currency. If bitcoins gains real traction, you're kidding yourself if you don't think it's going to happen.

It will.

And over the long term if enough deflationary currency is held by a few, and they are able to single handedly create booms and busts by simply loosening and tightening credit at predetermined intervals (functioning as a cartel), bitcoins could become vulnerable to a new medium of exchange taking over (thanks to a free market), due to the manipulation.

It's not a problem now, and it won't be for a long time, but it will eventually be a problem. The few will eventually control the currency one way or another and then manipulate it.

By the way, when they reduce the currency creation down to 25 bitcoins per block, the inflation of the bitcoin currency (for that year), will be at around 20% if my math is correct.

Do you know what a free market is? A free market is a market where anyone can participate in it without the permission of the government. If you have a cryptocurrency that inflates that is put out there by a non-government entity, and then people decide to use that cryptocurrency all on their own, that's definitely free market.


The savings rates would exceed the inflation. Inflation is just one possible method to make it more difficult for the few to be able to put a stranglehold on the masses. Since if they remove their money from the monetary system (by not using it and not loaning it out), they lose money.

The inflation wouldn't be subject to government lies, manipulation, etc. It would be enforced by the program.

You want to prevent a situation where a currency becomes manipulated by the few, and then the people have to create a whole new currency from scratch, because if that happens it will threaten bitcoins.

I'm thinking extremely long term, over a hundred years, by the way.

Perhaps there are other ways to solve this problem too, I'm just thinking of one possible solution.