Why would I tip you for trolling and fear-mongering?

And there's the rub. Proving that they knowingly participated in a deception is fairly difficult.

Hanlon's Razor states:


On the face of it, the simplest explanation is plain incompetence. To make it to the level of fraud, you're going to need some proof. Note that I'm not actually saying that BFL are (or are not) fraudsters. Just pointing out that the legal threshold for calling it "fraud" is just a wee bit above the allegations thrown around by the armchair lawyers here.

As an aside, designing and manufacturing an ASIC is quite a bit more complicated than most of the armchair hardware designers would have you believe as well. I write software for a living, but I do it in a hardware world. It's pretty fucking difficult to ship a commercial hardware project out the door, let alone one that involves custom silicon.

As long as we're clear that you are day trading, then I don't have a beef. When newbs get encouraged to try "mining" at cex.io, I have a very specific beef.

Ah yes. The "your position automatically equates to this other thing" argument. Brilliant stroke of logic, that.

I do say different. "Fraud" is a legal concept. And legally speaking, incompetence is not the same as fraud. Anyone who says otherwise probably isn't a lawyer.

The only way to profit on cex.io is trading. The idea that it is a mining venture is pretty much a bald-faced lie. It's about day trading.

If you're into that sort of thing and have the skills, then go for it. But the trend in price is down.

You have been warned.

Given the bait and switch that KnC appears to be attempting, and the long delays that HashFast encountered, I don't know that singling out BFL is really appropriate. Yes, BFL are incredibly inept. That's not the same as being scammers, though -- not by a long shot.

And during that time -- if you actually held the GHs shares for the duration, and if you didn't you're being dishonest again -- the price of one GHs went from 0.03970247 BTC to 0.0288999.

Wheee!

This.

It's a fairly safe bet at this point that the Neptune will never materialize.

I wonder if that was "Plan A" all along.

Extrapolating individual successes into "everybody can win" is in fact a fault of logic. If you win, someone else has to lose.

The problem here is that newbies who are drawn to mining think that cex.io is a good place to learn how to mine. In fact, it is not. It does nothing but turn X Bitcoins into X/2 Bitcoins. There are newbies right here in this thread who have stated that cex.io is their only opportunity to mine, because of the cost of equipment and the difficulty in getting in on a valid pre-order that will actually ship in time to ROI. Cex.io presents itself -- along with a bunch of dishonest fuckwits in this thread -- as being the solution to the mining hardware problem. It is nothing of the sort, and I won't be satisfied until dishonest people like xandriel stop insisting that cex.io is "profitable" without owning up to the specific nature of that profit -- day trading. Nothing wrong with day trading, per se, but it takes skill and constant maintenance, and necessarily involves someone else losing money because of the downward trend at cex.io.

It's a bait-and-switch, plain and simple. And if these fuckwits keep playing the bait-and-switch game, I will keep pointing out that they are dishonest.

Period.

Take a look in the mirror, then. If you're day trading in something that fluctuates but has a larger downward slope, then your profit is at the expense of someone else. If you're day trading something that is completely unpredictable or -- better -- on the rise, then everybody wins.

Simples.


Speaking of dishonest, there you go again. That's not what I said and you and everyone else here knows it. Repeating it as if I said it makes you a schmuck.


Thank you!


Admit that you make your profits via day trading and that mining is unprofitable. Do that -- without qualifications -- and I'll shut up.


You first, buck-o.

I've been called worse.


I own a forum, elsewhere, unrelated to Bitcoin. If there's one thing that owning and running a forum has taught me, it's that stupid people are blissfully unaware of their own stupidity. The second thing it has taught me is that post count is a pretty meaningless metric. So no, I'm not interested in post count. This forum software doesn't even directly show post count -- all the better.

I do, however, enjoy annoying the fuck out of idiots. I especially enjoy arguing dishonest people into the ground. So go ahead -- keep replying. I will continue to use your own words to demonstrate what a dishonest fuckwit you are.


That was almost an honest answer, in stark contrast to your previous attempts. But then I have to ask -- why have it in your sig? Why not just a straight link to cex.io, without the referral part? Surely if you like cex.io so much and just want to selflessly promote them, then the link in your signature shouldn't need the referral bit, right?

Right?


Then you have pretty shitty quoting habits. The quote above your reply was FalconFly's.


That's a stupid question. But I'll give you a stupid answer: For the same reason I drive on freeways that have billboards. Just because I don't like the constant and intrusive advertising doesn't mean that the freeway is entirely without value.


In your infinite wisdom, you have failed to notice that the profitable portion of cex.io is the day trading aspect, and that you necessarily need people stupider than you to buy your shares at inflated prices. No wait, strike that. You probably do realize this fundamental relationship between buying and selling, and are simply looking for more suckers to buy GHs shares from you at prices above what you paid for them.

I'm here to make sure they know that assholes like you are dishonest predators looking to take money from the noobs.

Yup.

That's a very, very poor attempt at sidestepping my plain-spoken point. The issue is not whether your referral link contributes to the numbers you are using to demonstrate "profitability" in your secondary account. The issue is that YOU have a conflict of interest because of your referral link, and so YOU can't actually speak objectively about cex.io.

Without the link or ANY kind of context in your post, it was absolutely a straw man.

I hold it as self-evident that nobody with a referral link to cex.io can claim objectivity about cex.io.


Congratulations! You've just proved what nobody was actually disputing: that it is possible to day trade at cex.io. For that matter, you can day-trade anything that has regular fluctuations. It would be stupid for me to disagree with that, and it's even stupider for you (and everyone else) to keep pointing that out. This is not actually in dispute.

Way to completely and utterly miss the point!

But as long as we're talking about day trading: if you engage in day trading something that has a predictable downward slope -- with no mechanism for short sales -- you're necessarily taking on more risk than almost any other day-trading opportunity. This will result in losses, despite some percentage of individuals who are lucky or skilled enough to make a profit. On the whole, there will be BY DEFINITION more losers than winners in such a context.

No, of course not. But your statement is a straw man. Clearly, BFL has delivered their products (albeit pathetically late). You seem to be insinuating that they never deliver their products, ever. That's simply not true.

I think it's rad that when you're in a hole, you keep digging. Balls-out, man!


You're dodging the question. Again. The statement "I have not accepted any payment" is deliberately misleading and you fucking know it. Either you have received something in return for your referral link, or you haven't made any referrals. Which is it? This bit about "accepted" is just weasly. There is no "accept" in this context.


I realize this was probably directed at FalconFly, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, I think those members are spamming the forum.


You keep saying that, presumably in some vain hope that if you repeat it enough times it will be true. It won't.

Hanging out on Neptune, no doubt.

(This is not meant to be a dig at any one particular ASIC company or in support of another ASIC company -- just pointing out how difficult the production of cutting-edge ASICs is, and that the development cycle is at this point longer than the useful lifespan of any given generation of hardware).

If you read carefully, I think you'll find that he answered almost none of your questions.