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Of course not, what a FUD. Bitmine has the right for exclusiv (speculation) distribution in Europe and the USA (speculation) and bought the license to produce the chip, which was produced at innosilicon for bitmine (facts). Whats innosilicon rights for distribution are in irrelevant as they are the producer, who selling licences. Bitmine claim, its their work has been stolen and I guess its up to the courts to decide whats going on, BUT i looks like that Bitmine is a bunch of amateurs, with 3 months delays and not able to drive the production to a level that can satisfy customers at all. When Bitmine's first board design came up, my engineers are laughing and rolling on the floor. That was halirous. It was bound to fail. After three reversions, we gave them the help by telling them using MTU. So their 4th reversion fnally works. But they are still not deliver a workable solution right now. show us the mail or what ever Pretty much everyone uisng a MCU solution is a copy from us. |
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Of course not, what a FUD. Bitmine has the right for exclusiv (speculation) distribution in Europe and the USA (speculation) and bought the license to produce the chip, which was produced at innosilicon for bitmine (facts). Whats innosilicon rights for distribution are in irrelevant as they are the producer, who selling licences. Bitmine claim, its their work has been stolen and I guess its up to the courts to decide whats going on, BUT i looks like that Bitmine is a bunch of amateurs, with 3 months delays and not able to drive the production to a level that can satisfy customers at all. When Bitmine's first board design came up, my engineers are laughing and rolling on the floor. That was halirous. It was bound to fail. After three reversions, we gave them the help by telling them using MTU. So their 4th reversion fnally works. But they are still not deliver a workable solution right now. |
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If Bitmine spend more times on research and development instead of making false claim, maybe their systems can come out a little bit early.
Without my help to show them using MCU on their system, I guess they probably will never deliver a damn thing.
People just need to show a little bit appreciation on people help them.
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Wow way to go... A seller who wants to sue before doing even a single transaction. I would be nervous to buy anything from jingtian not only more expensive than competitor he may even sue you if the miner got defective and your asking for warranty claiming i am libel LOL.  Epic failll.. You can complain if the price is too high or not. You can suspect if the products good or not, but calling FBI with rumor, that is a different story. Even when CK comfirmed with Bitmine for this. But if this guy is hired by bitmine, you just get your wish. LOL. As I know the A1 chips are withholding by not delivering to bitmine right now. Good luck. |
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I think everybody should calm down a notch The A1 drama here on Bitcointalk need to stop, it´s not productive anywhere. From Innosilicons website: Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production
Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field.No patent, no copyright. Simple as that. On the unit i have it looks linked to Innosilicon. Footer on the index page is "<div id="footer">Copyright www.innosilicon.com.cn</div>" Although that is a second index page that isn't displayed when connecting to the web admin. More delving to do. Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks. Recent summary: Advantage and difference from other miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260--------------------------------------------- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips. for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
Yes. Those are from my company. Alright, thanks for making that official  How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon? I will let someone put more pictures here. I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys. Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL. Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there. Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly. JT, it seems like a Chinese manufacturer has ripped off your designs and is selling them as their own. Wait.. where have I seen that before  Libel? It sounds like you have a statement from Innosillicon contradicting bitmine's claims. Please do share. What is actually Innosilicon's current position on this matter is this, and I quote from their web : "Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field." This might mean, that : a) Bitmine.ch has patented (patent pending), their HPP proces (sublicenced from GF and forked), based on their Bitcoin Mining IP core b) Innosilicon has given permission to Bitmine.ch to use their ultra-low-power Hash IP core for 28 nm DIE for chips produced by Innosilicon for Bitmine, and probably given only to Bitmine and nobody else. c) Who did customized VLSI computational Marco cell (power train in 28 nm) - Synapse, Verisilicon, Innosilicon, Bitmine or GlobalFoundries is not known to me at this point. Also not known if this customized VLSI method is patented by someone. Even though somebody could obtain licence from Innosilicon for power layer, other layers are still not Innosilicon property, so without Bitmine's sublicence on final design, full tapeout of cloned chips is not [legally] possible. It has nothing to do with BRANDNAME - "COINCRAFT A1" as s BRAND, but with TOPOGRAPHIC DESIGN OF INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, which is SEPARATE LEVEL OF INTELECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTION FROM BRAND(NAME) PROTECTION, patent pending according to Madrid Convention of the World Intelectual property organisation. Patents are accesible from WIPO portal, and they are many, and non of which are the property JingTian. I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification. Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation. |
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6 g's is a ripoff fellas, I'd recommend sitting on your hands for the S2 announcement later this month.
Because if the S2 is priced around half of these $5k and $6k miners, you best believe everyone will buy out the stock as soon as Bitmain puts it online.
That would be money well spent, imo.
Price is NOT that high. And anyone wants to wait for Bitmine's NEVER coming system, then that's his/her choice. |
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Sour grapes. LOL.
I don't sell my system for $3K. Period.
You don't sell it for $6,000 either because you're priced out of the market. You really want it, talk to me privately. |
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I have been in contact with skyfromwell and seeksilence for a few weeks now.
They have been very evasive on disclosing chips, pcb, and now even an evaluation unit. Every single time a question came up...they have been very evasive.
And those answers actually led to more questions.
Here is my take:
From the sounds of it and the 1 on 1 dialogue with skyfromwell and seeksilence on QQ.
They probably have stolen or infringed on the Bitmine 28nm chip IP. The demo unit they told me they would send 7 days ago has not arrived. They came back and asked for $6000 USD.
If I am to be a distributor of their product I am not dropping $6000 on a unit that is worth $3000.
I work in the chip packaging industry as well...stuff like stealing chip IP happens a lot in China.
While, I do not doubt they do have a working miner, I would advise great caution until a trusted Bitcointalk member can verify they are running an entirely legitimate business.
Very Respectfully,
GreaterNinja
Sour grapes. LOL. I don't sell my system for $3K. Period. |
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shut down now and move to San Jose.
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My system in the home finally was up! So let me do a review here and from an objective QA view. 1. First of all, I totally understand CK's confusion. Because I used to be an electrician in US, and I have no problems to hook up many things. But when I first saw the system with the cables, I am kind of in the blank too. LOL. So if we ship to home miners instead of mining facilities, then we need to improve on this: a. Should have no need to hook the system by miners themselves. Even though it is simple as Black (V+), Red (V-). We need to make a KNC style socket for this, so miners can just simply plug in. b. Need a part check list. Because the one I got missing two power cables and also one screw in the power unit is missing (and it is TOUGH to find a replace one in USA, can you believe?). So a small package with few extra screws will be fine. then others are pretty cool. 1. Plug in the cable then DHCP will assign an IP to the miner. But you need to check your DHCP server to see which IP it got. If you in a link sys, you probably need to go to DHCP client table to find out what IP you got. So we need to improve on this. 2. Then change your bit coin address in run.sh. 3. sudo ./run.sh & The system is running and on good shape. About noise, it has some noise but not as noise as your kitchen fan. In the same room you can hear as a PC making noise, but close the door, you barely hear anything. I put a Youtube video for you to watch. And also the mining link (it will take down with 1 hour and put it up in my San Jose office.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GWZaPfPqNAThis is for mining. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1HkrbUqFNk998DBJFxuKaektKjPT1LHrLt |
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But PLEASE distinguish different systems.
The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite.
Fair point and thank you for the correction; I'm not fully aware of the competitive differences of the two different systems. It might be informative and helpful to possibly post a brief YouTube video recording the noise your particular product creates. I have a system just delivered from Shanghai to my home (Berkeley area). But I am in Yuba City now, and will get home Sunday. I need to get system up and hear the noise by myself (and also do an over-clock), then I will report to you and others. Thanks for understanding. |
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3000 is the sweet spot for device.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking myself with the 20nm KNC stuff coming online in the (hopefully) not-too-distant-future. Once these 1THs miners hit near $3k USD, I'll consider ordering one. As tempting as it is to pick one up for $5k, really having trouble pulling the trigger until we hear more reports from the field. The fact that they apparently sound like jet engines is a huge negative for me; the Antminers are "just right" in terms of db output IMO. Very nice to see higher horsepower system becoming available in relatively short order. Xian01, I totally agree with you on the price. But remember the A1 chips just come up not too long ago, and as system maker, the profit margin is pretty thin. To hit your ideal price, there is the need for chip makers to drop the price at least by half. But PLEASE distinguish different systems. The one sounds like a jet engine is NOT my system. My system is very quite. https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKWgODgb.jpg&t=537&c=eQyZI8paYKMSVAThis is my system. |
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Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?
I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.
You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.
Your product doesn't have any advantage over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?
It is simple. Our first 1300 systems are being purchased by the mining facility. You can see the video on Youtube posted here. That is why we act late for sell publicly. And the website stuff. Also the price is no longer 8K, but around 5.5K now. About the 19999 RMB, that is a market trick, the true story is whatever system you bought from them, they will mine freely for first 10 days before ship to you. But even that, they barely make even at that price level (even considering cheap components). But why they do that? 1. They want to kill all competitors off. 2. If they can do that, they will be the only A1 system maker in China so they can go back to push the chip prices down. But so far, they didn't sell too much, and chip makers are not back down. So every interesting ahead... You claimed that your competitors use cheap components and that it is a marketing trick to sell at 19999 yuan with losses, even if they use the miners to mine for 10 days before they sending it out they will not break even. The only purpose is to kill competitors and become the only A1 system maker in China, which I find strange, because all your competitors lowers the prices.
So they are killing each others, so that 1 company will left to be profitable. This story is really hard to believe. Even using inexpensive components, the production costs and other costs will not exceed 19999 yuan. 5 Antminers use more parts than 1 miners from your competitors, and BITMAIN don't really use cheap parts. Beside that, BITMAIN has to pay 5 times shipping fees to ship out 1 Terahash of 5 OC 200 GH/s Antminers and still be able to make profit. BITMAIN can still lower their prices further and still be profitable. To be honest, I believe you disagree with your competitors to lower their prices to stay competitive and still be profitable. You want to sell your product at a PREMIUM. I think this will not work anymore, you have way too many competition now. The BFL, AVALON and Hashlast era is long gone. People won't be easy to be fooled for a second or third time. You see the knock offs from different sellers, but produced by one company. And that company is well known in China by the way they are doing business. |
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Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?
I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.
You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.
Your product doesn't have any advantage over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?
It is simple. Our first 1300 systems are being purchased by the mining facility. You can see the video on Youtube posted here. That is why we act late for sell publicly. And the website stuff. Also the price is no longer 8K, but around 5.5K now. About the 19999 RMB, that is a market trick, the true story is whatever system you bought from them, they will mine freely for first 10 days before ship to you. But even that, they barely make even at that price level (even considering cheap components). But why they do that? 1. They want to kill all competitors off. 2. If they can do that, they will be the only A1 system maker in China so they can go back to push the chip prices down. But so far, they didn't sell too much, and chip makers are not back down. So every interesting ahead... |
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I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
Yes. Those are from my company. Alright, thanks for making that official How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon? I will let someone put more pictures here. I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys. Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL. Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there. |
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I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
Yes. Those are from my company. Alright, thanks for making that official How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon? I will let someone put more pictures here. I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys. |
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I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
It is confusing, but I think at least three different Chinese companies are currently offering similar 1TH products that all seem to be using the Bitmine A1 chips. There´s more like 4+ different companies selling these 1TH miners. They´re all using the same blade design, A1 chips, raspberries, etc... the only difference between them is the casing and the color of the cables (From what have been revealed so far). The one you see here is original and others are copycats. There are major differences: 1. Our system as CK already saw it, is made with high quality part. So you can overclock using ours, but DON'T try that with copycats. Unless you don't mind to turn your system into a toast. 2. Our system you can go around 1.2T. 3. You know we are designed for rigs. 4. The MCU enabled with communication boards are original created by us. And copycats are all following up. Copycat system a little bit cheaper because they don't spend on research but also they don't use high quality parts. |
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I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
Yes. Those are from my company. |
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It is as simple as that.
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.
But even as Bitmine had an early start on availability of chips and great cheap costs, they FAILED to deliver their system successfuly and on time.
So AFTER my systems of 60T RUNNING over 1 month, and start to sell to public, Bitmine's system still NOT seeying anywhere.
From pespective of marketing strategy, this accusation is just a tactic to slow down our sales.
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