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41  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 11, 2014, 08:57:59 AM
Could we please stop discussing on the self absorbed rants of camosoul ? He can open a thread specifically dedicated to his vibrant story if he wants to, thank you very much
42  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 11, 2014, 08:35:47 AM
It would be lovely if one day opening a bank account was a choice, not a necessity...
It already is. You just have to be willing to make sacrifices. Your weakness determines your absence of choice.

My Company has a Bank Account, but I don't.

I don't have a car loan and never will.

I don't have a mortgage and never will.

I don't pay rent and never will.

It's your choice... What are you willing to do to make it happen?

You could only make those said choices because one guy invented crypto currencies from what I have read so far - and that guy was not you.
So it was a good thing you were lucky enough to invest into bitcoins the right time, but that being said, it was still pure luck.
"Normal" people have families, parents to support and can't live as homeless hoping one day they will get lucky.
43  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 11, 2014, 08:21:24 AM
Big test will be official RC4 announcement - to see if we are back on track market-wise
But Evan should hire a PR guy to manage the relationships with crypto communities, it could only bring some good
44  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 04:37:50 PM
The fees stuff was all obviously "thinking aloud" as eltito stated. "What if people could bloat the blockchain with by using this option.... Then we should ....". Nothing to be concerned about.

These are things that have to be built in as design parameters. You can't expect the attack to happen and then patch.

Bloat = cost.

No cost = tremendous bloat for the lulz.


Well the answer is quite simple, no option to bloat the blockchain at all, given current baseline anonymity is good enough for everyone, using the current safeguardings already in place in the btc protocol (transaction fees required if coin age <<)

How do you know it's "good enough for everyone"? Sure, it's pretty hard/impossible to prove a link, but if there's for example only 3 senders > 3 recipients, there's still the straight probabilities in play. Someone dead set on finding out who sent money to recipient A could possibly track down all 3 senders. Anonymity/privacy *always* has caveats. You can accomplish approximately what is being suggested by Darksending to a newly generated address for yourself, then forwarding the coins from there in another Darksend transaction. It takes longer and costs more, but you get "better" anonymity.

same way some guy satoshi decided 6 confirmations was good enough to prevent double spendings.
someone just needs to do some maths and makes an executive decision based on that.

But Satoshi doesn't get to determine that. Whoever is receiving the coins can determine any number of confirms they please to. Bitpay takes 0 confirms for example.

the official wallet does at least, and most merchants as well
45  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
The fees stuff was all obviously "thinking aloud" as eltito stated. "What if people could bloat the blockchain with by using this option.... Then we should ....". Nothing to be concerned about.

These are things that have to be built in as design parameters. You can't expect the attack to happen and then patch.

Bloat = cost.

No cost = tremendous bloat for the lulz.


Well the answer is quite simple, no option to bloat the blockchain at all, given current baseline anonymity is good enough for everyone, using the current safeguardings already in place in the btc protocol (transaction fees required if coin age <<)

How do you know it's "good enough for everyone"? Sure, it's pretty hard/impossible to prove a link, but if there's for example only 3 senders > 3 recipients, there's still the straight probabilities in play. Someone dead set on finding out who sent money to recipient A could possibly track down all 3 senders. Anonymity/privacy *always* has caveats. You can accomplish approximately what is being suggested by Darksending to a newly generated address for yourself, then forwarding the coins from there in another Darksend transaction. It takes longer and costs more, but you get "better" anonymity.

same way some guy satoshi decided 6 confirmations was good enough to prevent double spendings.
someone just needs to do some maths and makes an executive decision based on that.
46  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 04:23:01 PM
The fees stuff was all obviously "thinking aloud" as eltito stated. "What if people could bloat the blockchain with by using this option.... Then we should ....". Nothing to be concerned about.

These are things that have to be built in as design parameters. You can't expect the attack to happen and then patch.

Bloat = cost.

No cost = tremendous bloat for the lulz.


Well the answer is quite simple, no option to bloat the blockchain at all, given current baseline anonymity is good enough for everyone, using the current safeguardings already in place in the btc protocol (transaction fees required if coin age <<)

How do you know it's "good enough for everyone"? Sure, it's pretty hard/impossible to prove a link, but if there's for example only 3 senders > 3 recipients, there's still the straight probabilities in play. Someone dead set on finding out who sent money to recipient A could possibly track down all 3 senders. Anonymity/privacy *always* has caveats. You can accomplish approximately what is being suggested by Darksending to a newly generated address for yourself, then forwarding the coins from there in another Darksend transaction. It takes longer and costs more, but you get "better" anonymity.

so you basically infer that the main feature of darkcoin, darksend/darksend+, could not provide good enough anonymity at the core level to discourage a normal attacker (not the N*A) to identify the two parties if he really wants to?
47  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 04:10:10 PM
The fees stuff was all obviously "thinking aloud" as eltito stated. "What if people could bloat the blockchain with by using this option.... Then we should ....". Nothing to be concerned about.

These are things that have to be built in as design parameters. You can't expect the attack to happen and then patch.

Bloat = cost.

No cost = tremendous bloat for the lulz.


Well the answer is quite simple, no option to bloat the blockchain at all, given current baseline anonymity is good enough for everyone, using the current safeguardings already in place in the btc protocol (transaction fees required if coin age <<)
48  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 03:56:20 PM
Well the primary idea was discussion on enhancing the anonymity levels utilizing more MNs and assess any impacts in terms of bloat etc by going this route. Fees are not really the focus and the concern is understandable but derailing the main point.

Exactly.

Far too many people jumping on this DRK is for MN owners to get rich angle which is totally untrue. People need to read and understand the discussion before commenting. That argument should be made for a proof of stake coin -- DRK is proof of service. Without the masternodes you don't have Darksend(+), without incentives people would not run masternodes, but somehow the existence of masternodes is a scam.

So frustrating.   Angry

I have several MN. But I certainly think the fees proposals was an idiotic one nevertheless it is not like MN owners do not get already paid for the anon service.

And to get back on track, I already explained why providing different level of service is not a good one neither.

It could be an option. More mixing depth means a longer wait anyway.  If people are willing to sacrifice time for more anonymity then if it is technically possible then why not.

The fees stuff was all obviously "thinking aloud" as eltito stated. "What if people could bloat the blockchain with by using this option.... Then we should ....". Nothing to be concerned about.

Great, but let me explain why it is not a good idea that could enrich the coin features, but just a gimmick that would only cause confusion and PR damages when comparing DRK to competition.

2 things:
if normal anon procedure is not good enough for people to use it on critical transactions confidently, then instead of providing a paid wall, the community should focus on providing a good basic level of service from the start.
if it does provide a satisfying service level, then adding more options is purely gimmickal, and the additional service would be use very rarely, because of its limited interest since normal service is already good enough. Therefore, using this kind of option would be at the end some kind of big red flag bringing some specific curiosity into the transaction you are so desperate to hide. No good.

EDIT: and the fact that some fees could be required could even decrease the anonymity of the transaction potentially, in my opinion.
49  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 03:30:10 PM
Well the primary idea was discussion on enhancing the anonymity levels utilizing more MNs and assess any impacts in terms of bloat etc by going this route. Fees are not really the focus and the concern is understandable but derailing the main point.

Exactly.

Far too many people jumping on this DRK is for MN owners to get rich angle which is totally untrue. People need to read and understand the discussion before commenting. That argument should be made for a proof of stake coin -- DRK is proof of service. Without the masternodes you don't have Darksend(+), without incentives people would not run masternodes, but somehow the existence of masternodes is a scam.

So frustrating.   Angry

I have several MN. But I certainly think the fees proposals was an idiotic one nevertheless it is not like MN owners do not get already paid for the anon service.

And to get back on track, I already explained why providing different level of service is not a good one neither.
50  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 03:22:43 PM
Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to charge exorbitant fees. Why undermine one of the biggest attractive features of cryptocurrencies?

I concur, it is the stupidest idea ever to prevent mass adoption of the feature, and the coin.


I don't think I saw anybody suggesting exorbitant fees. This overreaction is rather absurd.

If it costs nearly nothing to bloat up the blockchain then that is an obvious attack vector that could destroy the coin. Can't have a decentralized currency if nobody is willing to download the blockchain. Bitcoin is already starting to have this problem and cryptonote coins may be dead in the water because of the issue.

Ideas to prevent this were being discussed... that's all. This whole obviously forced master - slave rhetoric is really boring.   Roll Eyes  

Disclaimer: I have no masternodes or any intention to set any up.

EDIT: going back a little further, I see that some people suggested to pay some extra money to obtain additional depth in terms of mixing and so more anonymity. It is still a bad idea, DRK protocol regarding mixing coins at MN should settle at a level considered as good enough (like the 6 confirmations) and stick with it. Additional complexity in terms of charging transactions and the fact people will misunderstand the scheme  are not good things at all.


If people misunderstand the scheme then they just need to be educated. The goal here is a high level of anonymity with minimal downsides. If that requires complexity (be it fees or some other structure) then so be it.

I still can't get why we can't agree on a mixing depth good enough to provide anonymity (99% confidence or 95 or 99%% whatever) - period. Putting different anon service level in place impairs the overall confidence in the anon protocol of DRK.
51  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 03:13:42 PM
Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to charge exorbitant fees. Why undermine one of the biggest attractive features of cryptocurrencies?

I concur, it is the stupidest idea ever to prevent mass adoption of the feature, and the coin.


I don't think I saw anybody suggesting exorbitant fees. This overreaction is rather absurd.

If it costs nearly nothing to bloat up the blockchain then that is an obvious attack vector that could destroy the coin. Can't have a decentralized currency if nobody is willing to download the blockchain. Bitcoin is already starting to have this problem and cryptonote coins may be dead in the water because of the issue.

Ideas to prevent this were being discussed... that's all. This whole obviously forced master - slave rhetoric is really boring.   Roll Eyes  

Disclaimer: I have no masternodes or any intention to set any up.

EDIT: going back a little further, I see that some people suggested to pay some extra money to obtain additional depth in terms of mixing and so more anonymity. It is still a bad idea, DRK protocol regarding mixing coins at MN should settle at a level considered as good enough (like the 6 confirmations) and stick with it. Additional complexity in terms of charging transactions and the fact people will misunderstand the scheme  are not good things at all ("DRK is scam to enrich MN owners, blabla shitcoins provides free guaranteed anonymity for everyone however blabla ... ... Ad nauseum" - we don't want that)
52  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 03:02:48 PM
Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to charge exorbitant fees. Why undermine one of the biggest attractive features of cryptocurrencies?

I concur, it is the stupidest idea ever to prevent mass adoption of the feature, and the coin.


+1 we need to establish ourselves as absolute widest adopted no.1 private coin.
Not provide easy routes for copy coins to usurp that title.

If fat there is indeed in the blockchain, it could be deal with at the later stage but we need need the feature/coin to be massively used FIRST before putting some fence in place. Pure greed motivates those suggesting otherwise.
53  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 10, 2014, 02:51:11 PM
Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to charge exorbitant fees. Why undermine one of the biggest attractive features of cryptocurrencies?

I concur, it is the stupidest idea ever to prevent mass adoption of the feature, and the coin.
54  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 02, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
Seriously though, late July time frame for RC4  Wink.
The Darkcoin community demand RC4 immediately !

No
Failed 2nd fork has cost us much now, as you could see today looking at market charts.
Everyone needs to cool down and wait for a perfectly polished product.
55  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 03:53:01 PM
I think Evan is going to be heavy on the PR after RC4. I dont think RC3 should be shouted about at the moment since its more like a public testing.

+1 we should wait for it to be entirely bulletproof
It would be a bad PR move to be public about something still barely tested that could still easily go awry at this point
Payments are working but still not 100% enforced for some pools furthermore
56  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Three times the charm, I'm asking again
What is the safest way to upgrade darkcoind on masternodes?
Is there any inline procedure that won't break the link with the remote wallet?

Simple. Just do it. And if doing a local.cold/remote setup, you actually only need to do it on the server side. Just be sure to stop darkcoind before upgrading to avoid errors.

Ok I guess I was not so lucky last upgrade , some nodes lost their connection, I had to regenerate masternode priv key
Thanks
57  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 03:33:31 PM
Three times the charm, I'm asking again
What is the safest way to upgrade darkcoind on masternodes?
Is there any inline procedure that won't break the link with the remote wallet?
58  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 07:34:26 AM
I don't have access to my cold wallets hosting the 1000 DRK at the moment. if I update the darkcoind on my masternode servers, would it break the binding and deregister my nodes?
Thanks

BUMP
59  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 27, 2014, 05:45:36 AM
I don't have access to my cold wallets hosting the 1000 DRK at the moment. if I update the darkcoind on my masternode servers, would it break the binding and deregister my nodes?
Thanks
60  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 26, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Is
https://www.darkcoin.io/masternodes.txt
still relevant? Im on there but not on chaeplins yet

I think it is. My nodes went back online one hour ago and appear here
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