Uživaj u slobodama koje ti omogučava Bitcoin forum. Nigdje drugo ih nećeš moći tako ispoljiti.
Toga mora biti itekako svjestan jer svako malo dobije ban na drugim forumima i portalima. @u/Policajac koji ti je ovo po redu reddit account? Treći, četvrti?  Opet maštanje o liku, a o temi muk. Bježite na sve moguće načine od činjenice da ste sudionici obične financijske igrice u kojoj trebate nove ulagače da vas isplate. Sve spike o bitcoinu služe isključivo privlačenju ulagača. I onda kad netko priča negativno o bitcoinu taj tjera ulagače i to vam smeta. Zato ne volite takve osobe i bavite ad hominem argumentima umjesto temom. Shvaćam vas, ali to spada u tolanje. |
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Dečki, može nešto o temi? O članku.
To je dosta teško budući da nisam pročitao članak, niti namjeravam  Vrijeme je novac a ako mi se čitaju bedostaće rađe prolistam index ili 24 sata. Barem tu i tamo naleti slika koje pristojne tete za trud šta skrolamo kroz besmilice. Može bitcoin biti što god hoće, ne da mi se uopće raspravljati oko toga, a čak i ako sutra bude vrijedio 0 i propadne opet je napravio jako puno za mene. Upoznao sam hrpu ljudi, razvio neke kontakte, posjetio mjesta koja inače nikada ne bi, a u konačnici nešto i zaradio. Dobro već sam shvatio da rukovodite onom: "ja sam centar svemira". Imate u mašti izgrađen svoj svijet i kad vam osoba prezentira djelić stvarnoga onda se uznemirite i napadate osobu. Primijetio sam da se to često događa kod ljudi koji žive u svijetu mašte, pogotovo kad je on vezan za materijalno i financije. Vi ste npr. opsjednuti idejom da ste dio nove digitalne revolucije i da ćete se obogatiti ili da ćete barem masno zaraditi. Možete vi pričati basne da ste tu zbog druženja ili tehnologije, ali lažete sami sebi i to jako dobro znate. Vi ste tu radi novca i ničeg više. No problem je što se vaša financijska očekivanja baziraju na mašti, a ne na stvarnosti. Sve što stvarno postoji u cijeloj bitcoin priči su softver, protokoli i baza podataka. Nema nikakve famozne digitalne imovine u oskudnoj količini od 21 milijun. Ona je samo simulirana, numeričkim atribucijama. A sva vaša očekivanja su utemeljena na premisi da ta imovina postoji. I onda kad vam osoba na najjednostavniji mogući način dokaže da ne postoji, vi umjesto trunke kritičkog razmišljanja, napadate ili osobu ili dokaz. I to metodom etiketiranja. To je sve što radite. Stručnjaci ste za etiketiranje. Korištenjem te metode vaš svijet iz mašte ostaje netaknut. U ovom postu etiketa je: 'članak je bedastoća'. U prethodnom: 'osoba je loša jer ne sluša političare koji su rekli da digitalna imovina postoji'. Prije toga: 'osoba je trol' i 'osoba je poremećena'. Itd. Shvatite, istinu ne možete osporili etiketama, niti mene etikete diraju. Poznajem dobro ljudsku psihu i znam da su to psihološki mehanizmi obrane, a niti me može uvrijediti nešto što je plod nečije mašte. Kad se vam sve sruši, a srušit će se, onda ćete se otrijezniti i gledati stvari onakve kakve jesu. Do tada ćete živjeti u svom zamišljenom svijetu. Nisam stavo taj članak radi vas par likova, nego generalno kao upozorenje ljudima koji žele ući u tu shemu zato jer se u javnosti stalno plasiraju laži da u shemi postoji nekakva vrijedna digitalna imovina. |
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Dečki, može nešto o temi? O članku.
Sad smo saznli da ne volite autora teme i da slijepo slijedite ono što kažu političari i "struka".
To su vaše osobne stvari. Nikoga to ne zanima.
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Evo vam bitcoinaši jedan članak koji opisuje Nakamotov izum onakvim kakav zaista jest - društvena igra. Pošto postoji puno dezinformacija o tome što je taj lik ustvari izmislio ovo će vam dobro doći. Sažetak Ekonomija je sustav proizvodnje i razmjene resursa. Novac je specifična vrsta resursa koja ima značajke poput trajnosti, prenosivosti, djeljivosti, uniformnosti i prihvatljivosti. Godine 2008. osoba ili grupa pod imenom Satoshi Nakamoto navodno je izmislila sustav plaćanja koji proizvodi i razmjenjuje novac u obliku elektroničkih kovanica, općenito poznatih kao “bitcoini”. Ovdje ćemo koristiti Nakamotovu vlastitu definiciju kovanica kako bismo pokazali da on nije izmislio navedeni sustav, nego društvenu igru. U toj igri, kriptografski potpisane numeričke atribucije zapisuju se u distribuiranu bazu podataka naziva “blockchain”. Taj zapis simulira evidentiranje količina kakvo se provodi kod proizvodnje ili razmjene resursa. Kako Nakamotov izum ne proizvodi i ne razmjenjuje resurse, to ga čini igrom u stilu Monopolija, a ne nečim što ima veze s ekonomijom i novcem. Članak se nalazi ovdje: https://btcigra.wordpress.com/Zanimljivo mišljenje ali radi se o tvojim osobnim stavovima, i osobnim stavovima drugih autora na blogu, bez ikakvog praktičnog značenja. Ono što je puno važnije za korisnike kriptovaluta je što o tome kažu službene institucije RH i EU, jer po tim pravilima i zakonima društvo, pa i kripto industrija, funkcionira, dok anonimna mišljenja na forumu nemaju apsolutno nikakvog značaja, osim razonode za dokone čitatelje. Ovo je službeno mišljenje Hrvatske narodne banke: https://www.hnb.hr/-/sto-su-virtualne-valute-''Virtualne valute jesu digitalni prikaz vrijednosti i mogu se smatrati specifičnom vrstom imovine koju su njezini imatelji spremni držati i/ili elektronički razmjenjivati te se sporadično njome koristiti za plaćanja.''Također, u službenom mišljenju porezne uprave navedeno je slijedeće: https://www.porezna-uprava.hr/HR_publikacije/Lists/mislenje33/Display.aspx?id=19590''Trgovanje bitcoinima smatra se financijskom transakcijom, sukladno presudi Suda EU-a u predmetu C-264/14, od 22. listopada 2015. te se slijedom prethodno navedenog, na dohodak ostvaren po osnovi trgovanja bitcoinima, kao i svim ostalim kriptovalutama, plaća porez na dohodak po osnovi kapitalnih dobitaka''Mislim da su službena mišljenja porezne uprave RH, Hrvatske narodne banke i Suda EU sasvim jasna po pitanju toga što je kripto, pa očekujem da ćeš kao odgovorni građanin to prihvatiti i prestati širiti dezinformacije u javnosti, što je, kao što znaš, kazneno djelo. Znači po tvojoj larifari logici, ako funkcioneri na vlasti napišu da je Zemlja ravna ploča, onda je to tako. Hahaha. Digitalna imovina je konkretan resurs sa jasnim značajkama, baš kako je objašnjeno primjerima u članku. Ne može funkcioner potezom pera učiniti da nepostojeći resurs, bilo digitalni bilo opipljivi, dođe u postojanje. No, ti vjeruj u nadnaravne moći funkcionera i prihvatiti sve što kažu, tvoja stvar. Samo... nisi osporio niti zarez iz članka, a članak pobija sve što su tvoji ljubljeni funkcioneri napisali. |
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Opet ova mazga.  Ups ja zapravo ovo nisam rekao. Ne znam kako je ovo napisano kad ovaj profil ne postoji. Postoji samo forum kao baza podataka ali korisnici ne postoje. Dakle, da se zaključiti da nisam ništa ni komentarisao. Vi bitcojnersi ste ko mala djeca sa tim vrtićkim sarkazmima. Postojiš ti, ne brini. I forum postoji. I pismo na njemu. Isto tako postoji i lanac potpisanih atribucija brojeva na blockchainu. Ali kovanice, resurs u ograičenoj količini ne postoji. To je simulirano tim atribucijama. Kao što je simulirana ekonomija u Monopoliju. Nakamoto vam je smislio igricu koja simulira novac i nitko vam ne brani da se igrate. Ali kad fantazirate da se bavite ekonomijom i novčarstvom ili kad neupućenima prodajete priče o revoluciji onda treba reagirati na te bedastoće. I nisam ti ja mazga zato jer si ti igricu shvatio ozbiljno. Nego upravo suprotno. Imaš pravo, kome treba zamišljeni novac kad već imamo ovu našu ekonomiju, zašto investirati u neke shitcoine kada možemo jednostavno kupiti jednu od najvećih svjetskih valuta npr. GBP?  Ja sam recimo 100% siguran da sve države prije printanja novih novčanica polože protuvrijednost u zlatu u sef kako bi jamčili za njih. Šta nisi vidio sve one kamione pune zlata koje su putovali u Fort Knox kada je SAD odlučio pokrenuti money printere? Funta je dug koji stvara država i banke, a na novčanicama i depozitnim računima piše količina tog duga. Dug je resurs koji se razmjenjuje na tržištu te pada i raste u vrijednosti kao i svaki drugi resurs ovisno o ekonomskoj i političkoj situaciji. Tvoji simulirani novčići u igrici nemaju veze s tim. |
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Opet ova mazga. Ups ja zapravo ovo nisam rekao. Ne znam kako je ovo napisano kad ovaj profil ne postoji. Postoji samo forum kao baza podataka ali korisnici ne postoje. Dakle, da se zaključiti da nisam ništa ni komentarisao. Vi bitcojnersi ste ko mala djeca sa tim vrtićkim sarkazmima. Postojiš ti, ne brini. I forum postoji. I pismo na njemu. Isto tako postoji i lanac potpisanih atribucija brojeva na blockchainu. Ali kovanice, resurs u ograičenoj količini ne postoji. To je simulirano tim atribucijama. Kao što je simulirana ekonomija u Monopoliju. Nakamoto vam je smislio igricu koja simulira novac i nitko vam ne brani da se igrate. Ali kad fantazirate da se bavite ekonomijom i novčarstvom ili kad neupućenima prodajete priče o revoluciji onda treba reagirati na te bedastoće. I nisam ti ja mazga zato jer si ti igricu shvatio ozbiljno. Nego upravo suprotno. |
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Dečki ako su vam topic ili članak uznemirujući nemojte klikati na njega. Jednostavno je. Znam da živimo u doba pahuljica, mimoza i echo chambera, ali ja vam tu ne mogu pomoći. Probajte urgirati kod moderatora da me blokira ili što već. Ne znam. Ali velim, najbolje je da ne klikate. Ja ionako ne mislim tu previše pisati. Promet je nula, vidim na blogu. Par kriptaša tu drka i to je to. Stavio sam vam članak da naučite kako stvari stoje. Ne mislim se prepucavati s par likova koji se drže krivog stava ko pijan plota.
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Naziv "bitcoin" ima više značenja. Može biti mreža, novac ili ono što je autor tvrdio: lanac digitalnih potpisa.
Ja sam tvrdio da novca nema. Mreže i lanca ima.
Dakle, ako sam dobro shvatio, Bitcoin = mreža i lanac postoji, ali bitcoin = novac ne postoji? A članak objašnjava kako se novac simulira te kako igra temeljena na toj simulaciji funkcionira.
Znači bitcoin = novac je simulacija na Bitcoin = mreža (lanac) i on zapravo ne postoji? Pa to sam i ja rekao, samo što am ja išao i korak dalje pa tvrdim da je sve to računalna simulacija i zapravo ne postoji. Kako može postojati lanac ako nema karika u lancu? Ne možeš imati lanac nečega što ne postoji, zar ne? Ne, sve si krivo protumačio. Karika - potpis atribucije broja kojim simuliraš kovanicu - novac, postoji. Lanac napravljen od tih karika - bitcoin, po Nakamoto definiciji, postoji. Mreža koja čuva atribucije postoji. Ali bitcoin kao kovanica tj. jedinica digitalnog resursa sa supply na 21M ne postoji. To se simulira atribucijama i zapisima brojeva. Dakle, prema tvojem mišljenju, postoji nekakav digitalni lanac (Bitcoin) koji u svojim "karikama" čuva kriptografski potpisane atribucije tj. zapise jedinica nekakvog digitalnog resursa, koji je u ovom slučaju nazvan "bicoin"? Jesam li sada dobro shvatio? Nisi. I ne iznosim mišljenje. Nego ti opisujem ono što postoji. Dakle, postoji lanac digitalnih potpisa (Bitcoin) koji u svojim "karikama" čuva kriptografski potpisane atribucije koje su zapisane na blockchainu. I ti zapisi atribucija su ono što simulira jedinice nepostojećeg digitalnog resursa koje su ljudi prozvali "bitcoini". |
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Naziv "bitcoin" ima više značenja. Može biti mreža, novac ili ono što je autor tvrdio: lanac digitalnih potpisa.
Ja sam tvrdio da novca nema. Mreže i lanca ima.
Dakle, ako sam dobro shvatio, Bitcoin = mreža i lanac postoji, ali bitcoin = novac ne postoji? A članak objašnjava kako se novac simulira te kako igra temeljena na toj simulaciji funkcionira.
Znači bitcoin = novac je simulacija na Bitcoin = mreža (lanac) i on zapravo ne postoji? Pa to sam i ja rekao, samo što am ja išao i korak dalje pa tvrdim da je sve to računalna simulacija i zapravo ne postoji. Kako može postojati lanac ako nema karika u lancu? Ne možeš imati lanac nečega što ne postoji, zar ne? Ne, sve si krivo protumačio. Karika - potpis atribucije broja kojim simuliraš kovanicu - novac, postoji. Lanac napravljen od tih karika - bitcoin, po Nakamoto definiciji, postoji. Mreža koja čuva atribucije postoji. Ali bitcoin kao kovanica tj. jedinica digitalnog resursa sa supply na 21M ne postoji. To se simulira atribucijama i zapisima brojeva. |
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Bitcoin je stvaran itekako - to je lanac digitalnih potpisa.
To su samo jedinice i nule... nema ništa stvarno niti opipljivo u tome. Možeš li mi pokazati Bitcoin ako tvrdiš da je stvaran? Pa ti si sam pokazao da lanac postoji jer si rekao da su to nule i jedinice. Lanac je zapisan digitalno - u formi nula i jedinica. Dakle postoji. Pa ti si sam "dokazao" da Bitcoin NE postoji. Da te podsjetim, otvorio si nekoliko tema gdje eksplicitno tvrdiš kako možeš dokazati da Bitcoin zapravo ne postoji: Have anyone saw bitcoin? [archived]How Satoshi Nakamoto invented non-existent bitcoins [archived]No, nisu ti potrebne te filozofske cirkusarije. Priznaj sam sebi da sudjeluješ u online društvenoj igri i sve ok. Neće se to promijeniti filozofiranjem o postojanju ili nepostojanju.
Kakave filozovske cirkusarije? Ozbiljno te pitam, smatraš li da Bitcoin postoji ili ne? Vidim da te zbunjuju neke stvari, pa ću ti objasniti. Naziv "bitcoin" ima više značenja. Može biti mreža, novac ili ono što je autor tvrdio: lanac digitalnih potpisa. Ja sam tvrdio da novca nema. Mreže i lanca ima. A članak objašnjava kako se novac simulira te kako igra temeljena na toj simulaciji funkcionira. Eto, nadam se da sam pomogao. |
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Bitcoin je stvaran itekako - to je lanac digitalnih potpisa.
To su samo jedinice i nule... nema ništa stvarno niti opipljivo u tome. Možeš li mi pokazati Bitcoin ako tvrdiš da je stvaran? Pa ti si sam pokazao da lanac postoji jer si rekao da su to nule i jedinice. Lanac je zapisan digitalno - u formi nula i jedinica. Dakle postoji. No, nisu ti potrebne te filozofske cirkusarije. Priznaj sam sebi da sudjeluješ u online društvenoj igri i sve ok. Neće se to promijeniti filozofiranjem o postojanju ili nepostojanju. |
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Bitcoin nije stvaran... Ništa nije stvarno, i svi smo mi zapravo jedna velika računalna simulacija, poput Matrixa.
Samo uzmi svoju plavu pilulu i nastavi živjeti u fantaziji.
Bitcoin je stvaran itekako - to je lanac digitalnih potpisa. Sam autor ti to tvrdi. No novca nema, on je simuliran baš kao novac, kuće, hoteli i trgovi u igri Monopoli. Slobodno igraš Nakamotovu igru, no poanta je da to nema veze s ekonomijom i novcem. |
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Evo vam bitcoinaši jedan članak koji opisuje Nakamotov izum onakvim kakav zaista jest - društvena igra. Pošto postoji puno dezinformacija o tome što je taj lik ustvari izmislio ovo će vam dobro doći. Sažetak Ekonomija je sustav proizvodnje i razmjene resursa. Novac je specifična vrsta resursa koja ima značajke poput trajnosti, prenosivosti, djeljivosti, uniformnosti i prihvatljivosti. Godine 2008. osoba ili grupa pod imenom Satoshi Nakamoto navodno je izmislila sustav plaćanja koji proizvodi i razmjenjuje novac u obliku elektroničkih kovanica, općenito poznatih kao “bitcoini”. Ovdje ćemo koristiti Nakamotovu vlastitu definiciju kovanica kako bismo pokazali da on nije izmislio navedeni sustav, nego društvenu igru. U toj igri, kriptografski potpisane numeričke atribucije zapisuju se u distribuiranu bazu podataka naziva “blockchain”. Taj zapis simulira evidentiranje količina kakvo se provodi kod proizvodnje ili razmjene resursa. Kako Nakamotov izum ne proizvodi i ne razmjenjuje resurse, to ga čini igrom u stilu Monopolija, a ne nečim što ima veze s ekonomijom i novcem. Članak se nalazi ovdje: https://btcigra.wordpress.com/ |
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Abstract Economy is a pretty simple concept - it is a system for producing and exchanging resources. Money is also a simple concept - it is a specific type of resource that has features like durability, portability, divisibility, uniformity, and acceptability. In 2008, a person or group under the identity Satoshi Nakamoto, allegedly invented a payment system that exchanges its own money in the form of electronic coins, generally known as bitcoins. Here, we will use Nakamoto's own definition of coins in order to demonstrate that they invented no such system. Instead, they invented a payment simulator. In this simulator, cryptographically signed numeric attributions are recorded into a distributed database called "blockchain". This mimics the recording of quantity that occurs when resources are produced or exchanged through economic activity. Given that Nakamoto's invention neither produces nor exchanges resources, this makes it a simulator, a Monopoly-style game, and not something that relates to real money or economy. Here you can read the article: https://btcsim.wordpress.com/While I generally agree with the definition of economy as a concept and of money as a concept, it's not all that simple. For example, acceptability of local fiat can be very low in a different country, next to nonexistent. That means there's a limit to that. Also, I am not sure what you mean by uniformity as money is often banknotes and coins that aren't unoform at all. As for the claim that it's a payment simulator, it sounds as it it means it isn't real, it's a fake etc. That certainly isn't it. You know what else is a payment simulator? When you pay by card in a shop, and your online banking tells you that you spent money there. The money will actually leave your account much later, so all 'transactions' we rely on aren't really happening, at least not at that moment. Bitcoin is real enough to work and be trusted. Here, simulator means having numeric values attributed to addresses without their holders being the owners of some resource in the quantity of attributed values. In short, the attributions just mimic the recording of quantity that occurs when resources are produced or exchanged through economic activity. Read the article. Your answer shows you didn't read it. I agree fully with what davis196 said. Most of them forget to consider the fact that bitcoin does not work just like that where you send money from one side and receives from another side. It’s literally process of creating something by using real energy (electricity), real machineries work it, computations happening for real and much more stuff to give it real world presence. If we take into account OP calculations then there is no point to the traditional bank system! After all it’s just printed piece of paper with some famous personalities printed on them. Nothing is created. Energy is spend on maintaining the record of numeric attributions. In short, it is spend on running the simulation. |
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The idea that it is "allegedly" used as money or could be used money, is the same thing as we can say about regular money. You are holding a piece of paper that puts a value to it, 100 dollars could buy you some things (not as much as it used to lol) and you are just giving a piece of paper and nothing more, but it does represent money.
You may say but that is created by the government and backed, but it is not backed by gold or anything, just the power of the country and some countries are terrible like Venezuela or Zimbabwe, so that means it actually doesn't have any meaning at all, we put the meaning in there, and when we don't, it goes down like the fiat of those nations. We put the value in bitcoin too, just like we do with fiat, same thing.
Stop repeating those nonsense conspiracy theories about fiat money being just paper. Banknotes or bank accounts hold info about quantity of debt that the holders own. Debt is a resource that brings goods, services or labour when it is paid. The article explained this in pretty simple terms, so everyone can understand it. Try to read and educate yourself for a change, instead of being the sheep that follows the herd. |
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Yes, I know that people care about the simulator and its components because they play it with real money and thus need new players to get the money back. But that's irrelevant here.
The funny thing is that when you start your silly definitions, everything else you claim later start falling apart too. Like money which is also a "simulation" in your little world that it doesn't really exist and people took it seriously. So there is no "real money" either to use to "play bitcoin" or get it back from new players. Money is not a simulation, but a resource. When you have no resource in a system, then you simulate it. Nakamoto did that by simulating a resource quantity via numeric attributions. snowshow now admits There's no need for me or anyone else to learn about the components of the [system]. Nor about how these components work. so he admits he has not learned about bitcoin. or learned if it works as intended.. his whole premiss is about an article.. if he read bitcoin code he will learn soo much, real quick and realise how much he didnt know before C'mon. You're like a child with this "you don't understand bitcoin" argument. This is a very cool new take on how they could diminish the value of bitcoin whereas Fiat has been not used as anything but government saying "trust us, this has value" and nothing more. I personally would use this "online transaction simulator" all my life over fiat if that was the case, but unfortunately not all people accept it so I still have to use fiat, but imagine how much I like it enough to never use fiat ever again if I was given the option.
You can try to make it look like bitcoin is not the greatest currency ever, but that is not going to work with people like me, because we know the reality that fiat has been terrible for many years so far and it should not be changing anything soon neither.
Fiat money is means to express quantity of debt. Debt is a resource traded on the markets just like a product or a service. In the Nakamoto's system you have no resource so it is simulated by mimicking the recording of quantity as explained in the OP. Bitcoin is a blockchain and bitcoin is the reward for providing computational power to keep Bitcoin working. Blockchains provide a distributed ledger for making transaction with realtime records, which is fast, reliable, Swift, anonymous and low cost compared to conventional banking. Some people with little understanding call it a computer game..it's their foolishess.
Wrong! Blockchains provide a distributed ledger for making simulated transaction with realtime records. The banking system makes real transactions, with debt. You cannot compare a simulation with the real thing. It's ridiculous. Then, you can't claim that something you haven't even bothered to study is a simulator. So I cannot claim that the Monopoly game simulates capitalist economy if I haven't bothered to study it? Your logic is pretty weak. "Monopoly" does not attempt to simulate a real-life economy and only a foolish person could think such a thing. If you think I'm wrong then tell me where in the game are interest rates and inflation, where bonds are issued, money is printed, and leveraged bank loans are given and defaulted on. I agree, Monopoly is not complex enough. It's a simple simulation of capitalist economy. |
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That is irrelevant here beause the system already exists whether the word "allegedly" appears in some paper or not.
I am not claiming that the system, the simulator and its components doesn't exist. But money with units pagged at 21 million. That's non-existent. It's just simulated. Then, you can't claim that something you haven't even bothered to study is a simulator. So I cannot claim that the Monopoly game simulates capitalist economy if I haven't bothered to study it? Your logic is pretty weak. The "article" is also irrelevant here as it is the Bitcoin software that people care about - and not the academic whitepaper - which functions contrary to your claims of being a computational "simulator".
Yes, I know that people care about the simulator and its components because they play it with real money and thus need new players to get the money back. But that's irrelevant here. |
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allegedly invented a payment system that exchanges its own money This little part already makes me think the author is a bitcoin hater and the whole thing is written to mock bitcoin and its users. Allegedly invented? If you put this into question then you should be ready to put up some evidence to the fact that it was not invented by Satoshi. If you don't have such evidence, you should stop using this word and instead write facts as they are. No one "alleges" that Satoshi is the creator. He is. Also, what does it mean its own money? The payment system's money? Bitcoin has its own money... I've never heard that before. Are you the author? I can't find author's name. Is he ashamed? Allegedly means that something is claimed to be the case, although there is no proof. Nakamoto claimed their system creates money, although it just simulates money via the record of numeric attributions. That's why they defined an electronic coin in terms of the chain. Because there's no money in the system. If there's no money, there's nothing to define, except the components of the simulator. The chain of digital signatures is one such component. allegedly invented a payment system that exchanges its own money This little part already makes me think the author is a bitcoin hater and the whole thing is written to mock bitcoin and its users. he is just a troll.. bored of life bored of reality but not ready to learn how things really work.. and he does not understand bitcoin..nor wants to know . best to not argue about his misunderstanding and instead just use his misunderstanding against him and so by snowshow not being sure if the whitepaper writer created bitcoin.(by saying allegedly) then in snowshow mind the white paper has less relevance to bitcoin. thus snowshow should stop reading the white paper and instead actually learn bitcoin There's no need for me or anyone else to learn about the components of the simulator. Nor about how these components work. Because the whole point of the article is that there's no money in the system, no electronic coins pagged at 21 million. Coins are just simulated via numeric attributions recorded into the blockchain. It's like a stock simulator. It has numbers and names recorded but manages no real equities. It just simulates them via the record. You're constantly missing the point of the article and respond to irrelevant things. Just try to accept the fact you participate in a simulation and that's it. |
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miners have a cost to mine blocks.. but their reward is not the blockchain. they are not trying to sell the blockchain
their reward is the coin produced within the block they worked on
farmers have a cost to farm cattle pastures.. but their reward is not the cattle pastures. they are not trying to sell the farmland
their reward is the milk produced within the farm they worked on
part of mining is collating transactions of proof or transfer of coins from one owner to another
part of farming is collating the accounts of milk transports to retailers and customers
someone buying is not trying to buy the blockchain or the block. they are buying the coin
someone buying is not trying to buy the land or milk delivery report. they are buying the milk
coin holders do not want to sell their coin at a loss
milk holders do not want to sell their milk at a loss
Nakamoto: "we define an electronic coin as a chain of digital signatures". So, the reward to the miners is the chain. I can have the chain for free by downloading the blockchain. There's nothing in the system except the blockchain together with open-source software and protocols. All that is freely available to everyone. Some magical, scarce coins, some digital milk or gold, whatever, with units pagged at 21 million are not real. Their production or exchange is simulated via numeric attributions. Check the article for details. I hope this helps. |
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You got it all wrong. Let me help you understand. Power or energy is spent on verifying numeric attributions There's no some energy stored somewhere for bitcoin holders to access and use. All the energy invested by miners is spent for a chain of digitally signed numeric attributions to grow. That chain is a record of simulated transactions with electronic coins. Coins are simulated via numeric attributions. They don't exist in reality Just like the items in the Monopoly game.
Unfortunately for you, Satoshi did not code Bitcoin as a monopoly game, else it would've had OpenGL as well  Power and energy is not spent on "verifying numeric attributions", it is spent finding a solution to a cryptographic challenge to mine a block. This is precisely what Nakamoto was talking about in the whitepaper so I don't see what problem you have about this. Whatever, energy is spent for manipulation with numeric attributions. I have problem about your claim that numeric values are backed by electricity. If numeric values attributed to a person are "backed up", than there must be some resource counted with those values in the ownership of that person. well under snowshows very own definitions
snowshow's messages hold no value and are meaningless because the amount of energy and time he put into creating characters on a page have no meaning or value. (correct snowshow?)
his messages stored on this forum are just random characters on a page with no value or meaning.(correct snowshow?)
if so, then.. bye snowshow.
you are just wasting your time and energy, (by your own admission, right?)
Not my definitions. Bitcoin has value, to someone I guess. But bitcoin is freely available to everyone. It's a chain of digital signatures - according to Nakamoto's own definition. You can have the chain by downloading the blockchain. You got it all wrong. Let me help you understand. Power or energy is spent on verifying numeric attributions There's no some energy stored somewhere
1. yes energy is "spent".. not saved 2. bitcoin is not about trading electric batteries with potential energy to power other electrics the spent energy has a cost. and people trade for what is created(mined coins) when that energy is spent/used. because they want the convenience to have coins but without the inconvenience of having to mine them. so they buy the coins from people who have coins (whom had costs involved in their acquisition of the coins). .. analogy: when a farmer pays for land and buys cows to graze on it to create milk. ..and then those cows actually do create the milk. that milk is not "stored land". .. its milk that milk has the costs of the land and the cows. people want milk because it has a benefit for them. but those that want milk dont want to become farmers. so they just buy milk at a fair price that should atleast covers the farmers costs the now milk owner does not now own "land" nor want to own land.. he owns milk that milk had a underlying cost in its production. Yes, milk is a resource. But what that has to do with the Nakamoto simulator? This creation simulates transfer of resources by mimicking farmers when they record quantities of transferred milk. |
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