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Has anyone written a fictional story about what it would be like to live on a libertarian island that was intentionally built that way? I'm having a difficult time with understanding how it would work. After the headache Ayn Rand left me, I would hope that this idea has improved in the last several decades.
Some "author" - not sure if he's a hack or not - is apparently writing one right now. I recall him saying it'll be "even-handed" but we know how such claims go. He wrote about the Seasteading idea on his blog, too. I'll try to look it up. Also I think someone wrote a book about island countries. Not having any luck remembering the author or title name, though, so hopefully it all comes back to me. |
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And, finally: rofl @ your claim that you've read every laissez faire work worth reading but you haven't read von Mises. Yeah, I'm sure... The work you're mentioning is published right after the WWII. Its goal is to prove the 'superiority' of free-market economy to government planned systems like those of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia... Yeah, I don't read 'politically correct' theories... They are designed to serve the ruling class. If the ruling elite of the dominant economy (the US) manages to promote an author of a suitable theory from a neutral country so much the better. Lets not forget that right after WWII Austria was still a neutral country! Yep, attack the man - in this case, the time and place in which he lived - rather than his ideas. Circumstantial evidence is a good standard for determining truth. Always. But fuck it, you're right, praxeology has no application outside of advancing elitist values...  The internet is used - and was developed - by the dreaded dominant class, better get off it  |
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I see past the Fnord. Do you? Man where are the Discordians at? That would be a cool pool. Prolly good barbecues too.
Eris > J.R. Dobbs > yer little noodley thing
Mind = blown Cut me some slack... |
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Anything is, vacuously, a step forward for international communism, if you catch my drift...
Getting goods and services to our family members around the world is important for people that love peace. Bitcoin is a step in the right direction until we have something even better one day.
I think these two sentences are worthy of a /thread. |
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I think I'll ask a similar question instead: does anyone here have objections to secession from the state? If the state's territory is not being lost? If taxpayers bear no brunt? Etc. etc.
Obviously this relates to the thread topic, but right now I'm more interested in the principle behind seasteading than I am in objections to possible cases.
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Chomsky has been harping on belief control in democracies, particularly through media, for decades now. Additional examples can be found in domestic attitudes towards American foreign policy, particularly war, as he thoroughly demonstrates  |
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Still one of the most brilliant minds we've had.
It is actually very simple. As Marx put it your position in the society defines your convictions and beliefs. If you have a lot of money, all you need is more freedom or liberty to spend them for everything you wish to suit your individual needs. The more things your money can buy the better for you. Unfortunately, this means more people with less money that are desperately ready to sell whatever they can sell - including their body, blood and organs! If you have no money, all you need in the first place is food and basic necessities for you and your family. This, however, suggests limited scope for products and services money can buy - that is less freedom and liberty for the rich. I don't see where is the genius of this 'brilliant' mind? You don't see it because you're woefully unfamiliar with his works. He contributed greatly to modern economic thought throughout his lifetime: http://mises.org/resources/3250Might not be best to start there but Human Action is definitely his most accomplished work. Or you can keep spouting off Marxist interpretations of whatever you feel like for the duration of the thread. Whatever stimulates your intellect more. Please note: I don't agree with much of Marx's analyses but I can still admit he had a brilliant mind. It's a shame when people let their ideologies blind themselves to the qualities of those they don't agree with. And, finally: rofl @ your claim that you've read every laissez faire work worth reading but you haven't read von Mises. Yeah, I'm sure... |
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On a more personal level, he was belligerently intolerant of ideas he did not agree with. To the point of childishness.
Still one of the most brilliant minds we've had.
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Boy, the OP surely knows how to accurately characterize those s/he doesn't agree with... I feel like I, and many other people who post here and use bitcoin, belong in neither of your "sides." I think that it's because, while I'm not a collectivist, I'm also not a greedy pseudo-banker scammer who wants to use bitcoin to make myself rich and fuck everybody else.* Hmm... *I have also never been one to spout out Randisms about greed, I think all of that is horseshit |
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A powerful nation can come in and conquer these tiny island nations because they could never pack enough military to fight off a much larger nation like China or even North Korea.
rofl NK is going to stage an attack off the US coast? you must be up out your mind. Anyway, does anyone here have objections - in principle - to people seceding in such a way if they pay for their own way? Well if a libertarian island starts having laws the US doesn't like, then they won't defend it. If the island abolishes all those sex laws like age of consent, age of pornography, age of prostitution, etc. then the USA will let it be invaded. Also if it becomes a haven for drugs and software piracy, they'll let it be invaded. I have a hard time believing that a country that was so scared of communism spreading close to its borders would let any foreign power invade a colony THAT close off US shores. No way. The US would not "let" it be invaded simply because they'd be the invaders |
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Do you think Richard Dawkins will join this pool?
y/n
Maybe Sam Harris?
y/n
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A powerful nation can come in and conquer these tiny island nations because they could never pack enough military to fight off a much larger nation like China or even North Korea.
rofl NK is going to stage an attack off the US coast? you must be up out your mind. Anyway, does anyone here have objections - in principle - to people seceding in such a way if they pay for their own way? Yes. In fact, your post demonstrates why I object to it. I don't want people paying no taxes to be afforded protection by the US or any other nation. I don't want a colony of pedophiles and druggies to be living freely off the coast of my country. Can you expand on how my post "demonstrates" why you object to it? I'm dense or something. I don't get it. By the clause "if they pay for their own way" I meant to exclude the possibility of the US contributing protection. Either the colony did it themselves or it didn't happen. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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A powerful nation can come in and conquer these tiny island nations because they could never pack enough military to fight off a much larger nation like China or even North Korea.
rofl NK is going to stage an attack off the US coast? you must be up out your mind. Anyway, does anyone here have objections - in principle - to people seceding in such a way if they pay for their own way? |
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flaxceed, you are a badass.
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There are no such things as "rights."
Discuss?
How can arguments be re-formulated without these quasi-metaphysical abstractions? Would such arguments be stronger?
Genuinely curious.
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Man where are the Discordians at? That would be a cool pool. Prolly good barbecues too.
Eris > J.R. Dobbs > yer little noodley thing
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There's always at least one good day every month thanks to TNL.
Nothing produces a belly laugh like watching bodies collide with their surroundings in uncomfortable and unintended ways.
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I read it and thought it was fantastic. It's actually the reason I found out about bitcoin, because I was looking up the author and found some of the threads discussing his role in bitcoin.
I consider myself to be an austrian/classical economist, and that's how I found out about Ahlgren's book originally. That's also why bitcoin has piqued my interest. To answer the question though, no, the whole book isn't about the currency. One of Ahlgren''s strong suits (and the reason I think there may be credence to the theory he is involved with, or actually *is* the mysterious Satoshi) is his diverse background. In several interviews, he talks about how Discipline was his attempt at fusing different philosophies -- most notably Taoism, Karl Popper's work, and quantum physics (a la many worlds, and string theories). You can also see the influences of his life as an economist and financial manager.
One of the things Ahlgren admittedly tried to do was present the material in a way that would be interesting to everyone. I think he succeeded, because the book isn't overbearing at all on technical or philosophical points. The price he paid, though is having to lay a long (and sometimes somewhat tedious) foundation to build the story on. But once you get through that, it's totally worth it. The characters are memorable, and the twist at the end is as surprising as I was told it would be. And, also true to the word on the street, you really do want to read it twice to get the fine points you may have missed prior to getting the revelation at the end.
I only read the book recently, so I can't say much about some of the older theories about Ahlgren and his experience. But I will say that the way it unfolds bears an uncanny resemblance to what's going on in the world today, and when I found out about bitcoin, the I immediately understood the reason for all the speculation. Bitcoin is a lot different than Ahlgren's PGU, but as one other observer noted, the book says the details of the story were changed purposely to protect fact.
And that just deepens the mystery... at least for me. How much of Discipline really is based on fact, if any of it?
Thank you and the other posters who took the time to answer me. You've convinced me to check it out. The only actual criticism I heard about the book involved readers not getting into the writing/empathizing with characters. Considering how outnumbered they were and how they weren't critical of the ideas in the book, I'm thinking I can ignore them for now That this particular endorsement comes from an Austrian schooler makes it all the more credible to me. Cheers. Perhaps I'll let you know what I think at some point here. |
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Is the book worth reading? I've heard mixed things, although they were generally positive. The tie in with bitcoin is really that strong that this thread isn't kooky?
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I like the idea of sound money and bitcoin is a step in the right direction. The relative anonymity is a further attraction.
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