Rebranding 5.0 incoming...
Can you give us some hints of 5.0? What's new you will be offering to your users? When can we expect? Will there be any other coins too? Don't expect much, except for the faucet going more down for the old users, themes changing a bit and a new hype getting created that PD5 is incoming. Remember the time when hype for PD3 was created and it was projected as if something entirely new and great is going to come, what came out was new design few features that hardly anyone used. PvP was the only good thing that came in but was further removed saying that it's not being used much and is just increasing the load on the website. Would be great if PD can bring in the PvP feature back. It was just amazing. Yes I rememeber PD3. It sure was a disappointement. Honestly I think PD5 will be a disappointment either since I am pretty sure most of their attention right now is focused on their sister site Stake.com Most likely it will be a different themes and maybe a minor feature or two. Yes, they are diverting a lot of attention towards Stake.com. The new site does not only offer new games to play with, but till now it has the best UI among st all the btc gambling websites created till date. Surely there are a bug or two at stake.com, but surely it is going to go towards new heights. Also, primedice will be getting the PvP feature back. It won't be brought back by the house itself, but I have heard that the community itself is developing the PvP back. Waiting for it to be implemented soon. Yes, they are diverting a lot of attention towards stake.com and that's because this website is new and those whole services offered by primedice. Personally I don't expect anything innovative in PD5 but it will be better than old one, otherwise they wouldn't make update. Personally I don't like stake's template, prefer FJ in this situation, maybe that's because local casinoes websites are very similar of FJ. Stake is more easy template, colorful and makes different atmosphere, maybe that's good but prefer old and regular template style of all casino. Thanks for your opinion. We're taking this on board for Stake actually, a clean option will be available in the new year. As for Primedice don't expect anything soon, we love the current layout so it's going to take some time to find something even better. Good to see, Stake definitely seems very childish in comparison to Primedice, but with that said, it's an awesome experience and levelling up is a tonne of fun. I think you could change the formula a little to make it a little less fast paced in the beginning then stagnant towards the end. |
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If you're looking for a provably fair dice site to play at, check out SafeDice.com - The site is currently 1st place for weekly wager amount out of the most popular dice sites on dicesites.com (yes, beating PD this week!), and there are some players who are making some big profits at the moment. Only 0.5% house edge, unlike most sites which are 1% or higher. You can play with BTC, XMR, and BCH - only 1 confirm deposits. And of course, the site is truly provably fair - each roll can be verified. Lastly, withdrawal fees are only 0.00005BTC and are always sent with high priority sats/byte based on the required fees at that time. I've never waited more than 5-10 minutes to receive 1 confirmation on a withdrawal. Check it out for yourself though, you'll probably be happy you did =) Safedice has certainly been doing great, Primedice has some competition and there's no doubt about that! |
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Was hoping this wasn't an actual thing. ICO's are mainly scams and I've always looked up to Primedice.
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Great to see. Would be awesome to see the forum more populated and this used more like a complaint & open forum for people to vent issues. |
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Looking forward to more people opening their eyes to issues like this. Let's see if we can get something rolling along these sort of lines.
Nice article RGBKey
How's CGF coming along? Waiting for some updates & new articles! |
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When will this be happening? Waiting to see how this pans out, really interests me the whole initiative behind this foundation. It's something Bitcoin gambling needs but it needs to happen soon.
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Hey guys, First of all, we are happy to join the CGF. Secondly, I would like to say that The proper way of creating a true provably fair website consists of 3 simple aspects.[Server Seed Hash] + [Client Seed] + [Nonce] Is not absolutely true. For example, BitDice does not have [Nonce] part, we show [Server Seed Hash] prior the bet, generate random [Client Seed] on the client and show the [Server Seed] after the bet. http://prntscr.com/h4pi2fThis method gives few advantages: 1) If the server was compromised hacker can get an advantage over only 1 next bet. ( This prevents the case that happened with PD ) 2) The casino doesn't know about future player outcomes. Regards, Alex. By adding a nonce you will be able to allow your users to easily verify bets. Otherwise they are forced to verify bets one by one. This isn't exactly a good way to go. You could possibly change the server seed hash knowing what the next client seed is thus outcome. I don't see this as a proper method of fairness. When you say if your server was compromised, the hacker would only know 1 outcome of the roll, wouldn't they be able to consistently see the next server seed hashes (Unhashed) and thus do exactly the same thing? I don't personally see this as a optimal way of going about true fairness. |
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Besides the "fair" provably fair verification process.
I think another important factor should be a site willing to provide how much capital it has.
There are many small sites that allow huge bets but have very little capital on their cold storage. And either some whale or some bad streak can easily cause the site to become insolvent.
Everyone has his religion! Some claim provably fair is important, others claim that the site must provide how much capital it has and based on my experience I claim that there need to be a fund where money goes in to enforce claims of victims. In some cases there is nothing you can do, but in most cases victims could initiate legal action, but they never heard the word court and or are not willing to spend a small percentage! Why bother with court cases etc. when a site can be fully transparent with its dealings/bets & in return risk its reputation without it having to be proven in court? |
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People need peace of mind when gambling. Ensure you gamble responsibly and where you know you are not being ripped off. A great article about the above by RGBKey for the Crypto Gaming Foundation. https://cryptogambling.org/the-problem-with-a-lack-of-vigilance/Provable fairness allows users to play on sites without the fear of their bets being altered into the house’s favor. But there’s an important caveat that is often missed or not explained to the players: full trustlessness is only there if the player does what they need to do also. Nearly all provably fair systems operate on the server seed client seed model. The server shows you a hash of their seed before you start betting and allows you to change your client seed before the first bet of the round. This way, since you are introducing new data into the hash function, the outcome of the hash is no longer controlled by the site as they do not have control over the data you give them.
But here’s the problem: many sites will pre-fill that box for users when they change their seed. This in itself does not have to be a problem. In fact, it’s possible for this to be even more secure than the user entering their own data. If the site allows you to enter up to 32 random characters and they pre-fill the client seed box with 32 actually random characters (preferrably generated on the client side with JavaScript instead of by the server) then it’s more secure than just entering “1234” as your seed, just like a password. (However it’s only “more secure” if the site is malicious and trying to change outcomes, and such a site would probably not generate good seeds for you so the point is moot).
The problem with pre-filling the client seed comes from a situation where the site is malicious, which we should assume until proven otherwise. A malicious site can easily generate a server seed and client seed ahead of time that when used result in more losing bets than winning ones. It’s just a matter of generating random client seeds and checking the results until they get one that’s sufficiently “bad”. If this site were to present this bad seed to the user as a sort of default option, many people would click past it and not think about it. The site would still use all the same provably fair algorithms, but could still be cheating you. Such a thing would only be possible if the site thinks you are likely to keep betting high or keep betting low, because estimates for you winning rely on consistently betting one or the other. (If the site generated a seed pair that would make you lose 55% of the time if you bet high, but you chose to bet low instead, you would be winning 55% of the time instead of losing). However, if the site does not allow you to pick high or low (or the game is some game other than dice where the numbers affect the outcome in a different way) then this opens up a good attack vector for them.
The concern with this kind of attack on players is small, because it would be difficult for a site to pull off consistently, especially without eventually drawing attention, but no hole however small should be discounted, especially with technology like machine learning becoming more prominent. If you take anything from reading this, always change your client seed to something that you created, copy down the hash of your server seed before you start betting and you’ll be fine. |
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Looks like Rhaver is on board!
Going to need more than that, heard Dean is on board too? |
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Edward when is Chartbet out?
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Thanks for the replies guys. Primedice won't be ICO'ing but its great to know the community has faith in it!
Edward when are you streaming again? |
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One of the best directories out there for finding the right dice game.
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A lot of websites miss the nonce aspect. This in turn creates an unfair environment and a major opportunity to rig events. Unless the user changes their client seed EVERY round this case is not fair. They will also have to in turn engage users to verify bets one by one to ensure their fairness. This isn't what anyone (Lets be realistic) does and leaves the vast majority of people open to being scammed. If an operator notices you are not changing your client seed EVERY bet they are able to change the outcome of rolls.
I think it's a bit too harsh to call it "fake" provably fair, as without a nonce it is still provably fair -- just perhaps suboptimal from a users point of view. But if you trust the client (e.g. you've audited a static version, or using some 3rd party client you trust) it's actually possibly better. There have been a bunch of casinos though with "fake provably fair", the biggest offender I remember was the old 999dice which put a "betId" (instead of a nonce) in the preimage, which allowed them to 100% control the outcome. And then there's been dozens of sites with "fake" provably fair systems (pretty much 99% of all multiplayer gambling games that come out, they screw up the provably fair and it's not actually provably fair). I would be trying to categorize sites (from best to worst): * Trustless * Provably fair (follows best practices) * Provably fair (warning: suboptimal, not practical for human verification) * Not Provably Fair (game design makes provably fair impractical) * Not Provably Fair (for no good reason) * Fake Provably Fair (claims to be provably fair, but isn't) Awesome that your on board Rhaver, you're one of the smartest guys in the Bitcoin gambling community. I hope to see you develop this. Rhaver is the king of gambling, behind dooglus of course. Maybe stunna too if he's lucky :p |
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Has the jackpot gone off yet guys?
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Are you guys kidding? There's no real money casinos with proper dicing like how it's done on Bitcoin. Bitcoin has such a unique approach. Check out the sites on www.dicesites.com, they're the proper dice sites I'm talking about - Not dicing that's implemented currently in real life casinos etc. It's a very different concept! Agreed, interested to see. Is there a link to anything similar to Primedice for fiat? |
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Stunna I want to ask you something.
Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.
If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?
My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?
Is that possible?(4th question)
This was discussed many many times in the past with various sites. Basically its technically possible some gambling site can cheat you ONLY if you NEVER change your bet habit and NEVER change your client seed. The site can have some pregenerated keys and if they detect you are someone who only martingales AND never changes the win direction, then they can give you some bad keys that will generate 10-20 losses in a row to clean you out. However I am pretty sure Primedice never does this. And its also risky for the casino because what if you change from being a predictable gambler to a non-predictable gambler. Someone can basically, martingale with 100 Sats bets for like 10000 Rolls, and then all of a sudden they can switch their bet habits and trick the site. Well said, this is why I generally only trust dice sites. But initiatives like onehash & www.stake.com are making other types of gambling possible to easily verify. |
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Congratulation Stake team. Awesome site. Love it.
Micro's team is also amazing! |
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