My wife and I are fairly new to btc and maybe this will help other newbies. We initially had the thought of strictly "hoarding" btc.....but we've agreed lately that is really not what btc was ever created for. We correctly came to the conclusion that if we don't SPEND at least some of the btc, we are essentially hurting it's over all implementation.

So I ordered a SHIFT card and I have received it. I'm 99% sure how it works and I'm comfortable with it, etc...(haven't had a chance to use it yet)....but my question is: By using the SHIFT card to use BTC to purchase everyday items from anywhere, ARE WE REALLY contributing to the "spending" of btc or is at all somehow smoke and mirrors that doesn't really help the cause?

Thanks for any responses.

Thank you. A response without arguing ideals. An actual answer. So it seems I have read it correctly and now understand the time frame. And what of the LN? HOW is that tied in.....if at all? (anyone with an understanding of this can answer without giving your PRO or CON opinion)

You guys / gals realize I'm new, right? Lol....... There were some links that showed me a graph of the implementation of Segwit to date.

But beyond that....if you go back and re-read my OP, NONE of my other questions were answered. They were just basic questions about the implementation and time frame of segwit and the LN. I am flattered that one the lead devs decided to respond (twice) in my thread and I would have been flattered if ANY of the lead devs from ANY coin had responded.

The funniest part to me though is this : I really don't understand pretty much anything any of you are arguing about. I could be wrong, but I don't recall asking *IF* Segwit would be a good thing or a bad thing and same goes for LN. I was merely asking if I had read correctly that it would take 95% approval and THEN (Time frame) it would be implemented two weeks later? I also wanted to know if there was a time frame or cut off date for Segwit if it didn't get the 95%? Then I wanted to know if the LN was somehow tied in automatically with the approval of Segwit. (regarding time frame)

That's it. That's all I wanted to know. Seeing as how (VIA_BTC?) mining pool has 8% control and have said they will not implement segwit, it all seems to be a moot point anyway. (I can do math too) But feel free to carry on arguing.....in the meantime, I'm sticking with core. Why? Because of the math. Core is king, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I believe I read here that segwit was essentially released on Nov. 15 and that it had a certain amount of time to be accepted by 95% of (miners I guess?) and if that 95% was reached, it would automatically be implemented 2 weeks later.

Do I have that correct?

I also read that the lightning network would (maybe?) be implemented after that automatically. Do I have that correct?

Is there somewhere that I could go to see a live update of where segwit, etc stands?

    This guy right here.....he nails it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpi3F0E5ro

I'm all for it. Hopefully they can get the votes in Washington to get it done. Can you even imagine if that happened? All the liberals would flock from virtually every major city to their new homeland. They can finally have their own government, etc.

FINALLY, the liberals would have their imaginary Utopia.

The rest of the country would immediately turn into all red states, and hopefully not long after that, "the big one" will hit and Cali will fall off into the damn ocean and we can watch all the rats drown in one epic moment of "win."

I pretty much gave up on my safety concerns with creating my own wallet and bought a Trezor last night. (this is a big issue for BTC going forward imho)

Anyway, I hear over and over and over again to NEVER reuse any address.....and frankly, that just seems completely stupid to me.

Let's assume by some miracle of God that I was able to generate a 100% secure public address and private key pair. Assume the private key is never used to move the btc except for a SINGLE TIME at some point in the far future. Why would it not be completely safe to deposit btc to that public address on multiple occasions?

Essentially, that public address would be a "savings account." Deposits only. Coins (all of them) moved at once a single time in the future to perhaps two or three new public "savings accounts." For safety concerns or whatever.

There is a complete contradiction in the BTC world. "NEVER USE THE SAME ADDRESS MORE THAN ONCE." Yet at the same time "GIVE OUT YOUR PUBLIC ADDRESS TO ANYONE YOU LIKE." -----WTF???

Shorena > see what I mean.....sigh. SMH. The never ending rabbit hole of security. Effin' hackers. This is good. It's a never ending race between the good guys and the bad guys. The thing that pisses me off the most, we both know 80% of these hackers could spend a LOT less resources to just hack our freakin' regular banking accounts.......but they're not in it for the money per se. They're in for the puzzle and the lulz.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1013586.0

Shorena , thanks again. I'm not completely unfamiliar with encryption and security as I have used Truecrypt in the past.

I've been down this rabbit hole before, but for different reasons. Well, no, I guess it's ultimately for the same reason > the protection of MY data.

I understand the live CD idea, although I think it's a pain in the butt. But I will do it because it's absolutely needed. (even though I don't have SSD) I still agree it's necessary.

I'm just not sure I'm ready to go down this rabbit hole again when it involves money. I mean, there's so many ?'s that I NEED to understand. 1st question would be to question the bitaddress.org generation process. (the math behind it, not the actual mechanical moves I need to click) I know it's generally trusted and accepted and let's be real, that makes it a target.

So, you mentioned encrypting my private key. Yes, I totally agree. I currently use a fairly popular pw manager that generates random pw's for you. I have it set to use 32 characters, Upper -lower, #'s and special characters and even obscure words if it wants. THE TRUTH IS > I DON'T EVEN KNOW MY PASSWORDS... That's the truth. But so far I've only changed my pw's to this format for such things as facebook, email, social media stuff, forums like this, nothing really critical.

But I'm thinking if I implement the live CD part, the bitaddress.org part with BIP38 and a random generated PW that is say....100 characters in length, I'm thinking I'd be pretty damn secure. Light years ahead of most noobs at the least.

I'm not a mathematician though. So I can't calculate out how long it would take to brute force something like that. I imagine it would take longer than the universe has been around. But I'm pretty confident I'm on the right track with security. What is your take on Trezor? My take is that if it's man made, it WILL fail. Period. Just a matter of time..... for example, can a Trezor withstand incredibly strong magnets? What about an EMP pulse? Or, am I missing the point entirely because they can all be "restored" from a seed? (?) I'd like to be able to chat with you real time if possible....I'll leave that up to you as to how and even if you would be willing to do that. Because even with your input HERE, I am by no means even remotely close to being comfortable enough to say, > YES, I'M SURE I know what I'm doing. How am I supposed to get others involved with btc when I can't even explain the security aspect of it in a mathematical way. "Just trust it" - doesn't cut it with me, and it's not going to cut it with others either.

To the other fella / gal that mentioned deleted files aren't really deleted, (essentially), I agree. Can't speak for Shorena but I'd be flabbergasted if he/she didn't already know that as well but MANY people are not even aware of that fact. So, thank you for bringing it up. Perhaps it will help others in the future.

Shorena...... Thank you so much for your very detailed answer. Let me clarify something please. When I said at the very start "Assuming my PC isn't infected...." The rest of what I wrote would seem to = true. It's actually quite the opposite, as you stated. I DON'T assume my PC is clean. I MUST assume it is compromised already (which I do), despite the various virus scans, malware scans etc that I do routinely that always come up "clean."

Clean or not, when it comes to my money or btc, I STILL must assume it's compromised. What I was implying was mathematical really. If PC / (any operating system able to generate the keys) = Clean...then the rest of what I wrote would seem to = true, if I read your response correctly.

You asked about what my security concerns / threats were. Mine are strictly hackers, glitches in "the system", etc..... I do not keep my btc on exchanges etc for this very reason. I am not worried about family members, home intruders, etc. As for my private key, I believe 3 to 4 copies should suffice. My brother would get a copy. My best friend would get a copy, and my wife and I would have a copy and perhaps her parents would have a copy. (you gotta trust somebody) They are all spread out all over the country.

As for "wiping" the free space, I'm not going to insult your intelligence. You know there are programs out there that claim to do just that, but I get the feeling you have some sort of issue with this from a security standpoint or you wouldn't have brought it up. So...??

It sounds to me like what I've concluded is correct, now I just need to figure out how to generate a clean, uncomprimizable key pair ---- which I absolutely DO NOT TRUST my PC to do. That seems to me to be the bottom line in my whole security "plan." *IF* I can get a secure key pair, the rest of my plan should be ok. Right? If not, please tell me where the holes are so I can re-think it. Thanks again.

Assuming my PC isn't infected with any spyware, etc......

1) I get the bitaddress.org file downloaded to my PC. I disconnect from the internet and generate a paper wallet.
I copy and paste my public address into notepad, or whatever. I make backups of that address and store in different places.

2) Regarding the private key, I'm still offline, I simply write down on paper the private key and make copies of it too and store accordingly (IE: > it never gets used in the online world until I'm ready to move the bitcoin.)

Once I have my both address and key stored, I would shut down bitaddress.org.....clear all my history, etc from my browser, then "wipe" the free space on my hard drive. Then I'd reconnect to the internet. The Private key has never been seen by anyone but me.

3) I use Mycelium wallet (or any wallet really) to send bitcoin to this new public address.
As long as I keep my private key safe, isn't this effectively 'cold storage?' And is this correct? (all of the above)

I do have one question though....which is still bothering me. I would be sending bitcoin this public address on a weekly basis from Mycelium wallet. But I've also read you shouldn't reuse addresses or send to the same address over and over again.

I assume at some point, hackers are going to figure out how to break Mycelium. And I'm fine losing $100 or so from the wallet....and yes, they would in theory then see all this money I've sent to the public address....but if the private key has never seen the light of day in any digital form....I don't see how they could break into that address.

I would strictly be using this new address to "stash" or build a "nest egg" of BTC. ---- Do I have the security correct, or not? Please advise. Thanks.

Here's my current formula > Regular paycheck in bank > Circle Pay or Coin Base to buy BTC > then to Mycelium.

I consider Mycelium to be my "Safe." That's where I'm keeping my hoard of btc. But I'm quickly learning that isn't really an option because I'm also sending small transactions from that wallet to my brother, my two sons, etc. So now I'm viewing Mycelium as like my carrying around small change bitcoin. $100 or so.

I REALLY REALLY like the idea of a paper wallet that's completely offline. Where I can sent many transactions TO that public address.....but never remove from it. That would be my ultimate vault.

But I don't understand HOW I could actually check the "balance" of the paper wallet from time to time. Just to be sure, without compromising it? And my plan seems so simple but it's driving me nuts that I can't figure this out.

I want an air tight system where I can send BTC, repeatedly, never having scanned the private key, but yet, I want the ability to be able to see what amount of money is actually in there. UGgggggg.......please help.

Thank you guys a lot. So, maybe I'm not quite as confused as I thought I was. Some of my assumptions were correct.

Maybe let's back up one second. Forget about my brother. In my own Mycelium wallet, I go to "accounts." I swear when I started using it, it said I had 1 account, and 1 private key. Now a couple months later, it says I have the same 1 account, but now 23 private keys. That's exactly what it says.

Can we start there? As far as I know, there is no way for me to "open" that and actually see those 23 private keys.

I'm new but not dumb. I do know the tiniest of information about salts and hashes , etc. It's not something I can conceptually fathom in my mind though.

So 1) There's the seed.....(the words?).....ok, take it from there please.....what happens?

I think I've got the concept of Bitcoin understood. I definitely trust the math. I've been buying bitcoin and have a modest stash now and I can explain Bitcoin to people so they get the concepts too.

But for a reason I'm about to explain, the bottom line is I am still confused about the security aspect of it. And before I go any further with Bitcoin, I want to make sure I am up to date with the latest about keeping my coins safe.

I have Circle Pay, and Coinbase and Mycelium. That's just the way it worked out. Here's my process. I buy from circle pay because for some reason, I find it easier than buying from coin base. But I do use both. They are both hooked up to my bank and my debit card. (Not entirely worried much about this ---should I be?) I buy my bitcoin and then immediately transfer it into Mycelium. That's where I currently feel safest about sending and receiving. I think of that wallet as my "safe." --- But I'm slowly starting to think I might have the right idea, but there's much more secure ways to HOARD my BTC safely. I'm open to all suggestions....but I like the idea of a paper wallet. I don't trust anything digital for the long term safety of my HOARD.

Moving on to why I'm still confused is because I printed a paper wallet and deposited some money into it and then I gave the paper wallet to my brother and wife for their wedding gift. Tonight I thought it was a good idea for HIM to go ahead and learn how to open it, deposit, etc...but when I made the paper wallet, we encrypted it with the BIP 38 (or whatever it is) password.

I had / have read that scanning the QR code for the PRIVATE key is not good. Not secure. But we pressed on, he scanned it, (Same Mycelium wallet app that I use) and then the PW worked and he said the balance was there and correct (good)....but that the only option he had available was "send." I'm assuming this is correct. So I asked him to ahead and close that portion of the wallet and go back to "Accounts"......I forgot to tell you this but BEFORE we did this, I asked him to tell me how many private keys he had. He said "2." I assume 1 is his private key, and the other is mine....?....cause there's only been 1 transaction from me to him. 2 keys makes sense. But am I right?

So then he looks at the "accounts" and I ask him how many keys he has now. I was expecting him to say "3" because in my mind, he had just imported and processed the private key from the paper wallet. Well this made me panic a little bit (not much) but it prompted me to sign up here and ask these questions.

DID WE IN FACT COMPROMISE his private key? If so, he obviously needs to move that money to a new wallet ASAP.

I understand the private key is the key to the kingdom. If you don't have it....you're out of luck. Forever. I also understand that the public key is just that. Public. Your piggy bank. I've read I can put that out anywhere on earth, some places even encourage it....but THERE TOO is another confusing issue for me. Everywhere you look you see "never use the same address twice. Send or receive." ------ Well, which is it?

And for the life of me, I cannot understand why private keys would be stored on the SAME digital device that also can produce send and receive addresses.

Trust me, I've watched a lot of youtube vids about this.....still fuzzy with it. Maybe I'm way over thinking this. But, my wife and I are betting our entire future into BTC. We CANNOT lose it. So please....edumacate me.